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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:34 PM

Honest, Adult Debate. Gun Violence, Goddamnit!

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:19 PM - Edit history (2)

There is no easy answer and there is no one ‘answer.’ Like every complicated problem, more than one factor went into causing it, so more than one solution will be needed to solve it. Every tragedy involving guns that happens in the US is greeted immediately with a chorus of, “It’s too soon to talk about it.” Followed by, “You have an agenda… and it’s too soon,” then a few weeks later…it’s too late – on to the next tragedy. And nothing changes. Tragedy, after tragedy, after tragedy. The truth is we needed to have this national dialogue years ago. This time we can’t let it be put off. But we should have a few ground rules.

No fanatics, liars or simpletons should be allowed in the discussion. And they certainly shouldn’t be allowed to run it. Fanatics cannot accept a fact that doesn’t fit their worldview, and simpletons can’t understand them. Liars are just, well, liars. This has to happen with serious adults that can act as least as mature as a seven-year-old child told there is no Santa Clause.

One cannot solve a real world problem with partial or fantasy remedies. Fanatics get irate when anything contradicting their pet beliefs are challenged in any way. They yell, scream, insult, attack with ad hominems and demand that their issue be off the table. It’s sacrosanct. So important information needed to solve a problem is left out of the discussion. Hence, the problem can’t be solved. Guns are off the table when talking about gun violence? Really? It has NOTHING to do with it?

Simpletons also need to be ignored from now on. When one’s answer to a mass shooting in a crowded theater, is to have everybody armed, you’re not thinking things through. Grow the hell up! You’re not Rambo, John Wayne or Dirty Harry. Professional soldiers kill people on their own side in every war. Trained police sometimes end up killing more innocent people than the criminals they were trying to stop during a shootout. And these are professionals who do this for a living and have trained together. But if forty wannabe Rambos who have never met each other, never mind trained together, stood up in that theater in Aurora, Colorado and started shooting…well, everything would have worked out great!

There is some crossover between simpletons and liars in some examples, but at the very least, these types of arguments hold in common one major theme – they’re insulting. “You can kill someone with a pencil, too.” Or “Lots of things can kill people, a knife, or whatever.” Why should logical adults have to explain to supposed adults the differences between a pencil and a automatic weapon? People who make that, and similar arguments can only drag the conversation down to ridiculous, childish and time wasting levels. They should be allowed back into the conversation when they have learned to think and can bring something useful to the table if we are ever to have any hope of solving this.

Don’t like this and think it’s too hard on some? Anger you, or hurt your feelings? Tough shit. Because this will keep happening if your feelings keep taking precedence over other’s lives. Innocent children dying are a tragedy that hopefully will never happen again. There are no guaranties, but doing nothing is the worst possible course of action. (Or inaction, as the case may be.)

I don’t know what the answers are, but I do know we need to talk about all the factors like adults do when they want to solve a problem. All aspects should be discussed, honestly. Health care, mental health clinics, training, cultural awareness, education, and even gun control. Everyone that is not completely crazy believes in some form of gun control. No one wants the criminally insane to have access to Stinger missiles. So different people draw lines in different places. Why can’t we talk about where that line should be drawn, like adults?



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Reply Honest, Adult Debate. Gun Violence, Goddamnit! (Original post)
20score Dec 2012 OP
punkin87 Dec 2012 #1
punkin87 Dec 2012 #7
20score Dec 2012 #12
rustydog Dec 2012 #2
RegieRocker Dec 2012 #3
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #4
suede1 Dec 2012 #5
20score Dec 2012 #6
20score Dec 2012 #8
LineLineLineReply .
suede1 Dec 2012 #9
question everything Dec 2012 #10
Kaleva Dec 2012 #11
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #13
suede1 Dec 2012 #14
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #15
20score Dec 2012 #16
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #17
hbskifreak Dec 2012 #18
hbskifreak Dec 2012 #19
20score Dec 2012 #20

Response to 20score (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:39 PM

1. This shooting is making me sick!

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Response to punkin87 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:22 PM

7. But maybe it's making enough people sick and this is a tipping point.

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Response to punkin87 (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:31 AM

12. Hope so.

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Response to 20score (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:40 PM

2. No honest debate, an adult DISCUSSION on this senseless violence

the time is now.

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Response to 20score (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:45 PM

3. Witnessed two guns

 

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:16 AM - Edit history (1)

in an altercation yesterday. Had to seperate them and send them on their way. Guns are idiots. Mix them with crazy humans like mental unstable citizens, cops and military etc. and you've got a real problem. Hundreds of thousands dead. Want to ban guns? Make it across the board. When its safe for cops and military to be gunless then go ahead and ban them.

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Response to 20score (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:48 PM

4. OK, at a minimum there needs to be a licensing system in place

in order to be able to posses any firearm. Similar to motor vehicles with testing and renewals every few years and liability insurance required. And as with driving a semi- a lot more training would be required for someone to operate a more powerful weapon, such as rifles.

And forget all these automatic weapons. They need to be outlawed and all liability for damages they cause fall to the manufacturers. That will encourage them to take the weapons back- come up with a buy back scheme of some kind.

Until this is in place I think that gun manufacturers need to be sued for all the damages caused. And the people that sell the ammo need to be charged as well. If they have been fighting regulation, then they need to pay up.

Then we need absolute universal health care and a real social safety net. The climate of fear and violence so well described by Michael Moore needs to be changed.

We can and will change this.

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Response to 20score (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:54 PM

5. Those are some damn good points! If not now when?

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Response to suede1 (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:05 PM

6. ........

.

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Response to suede1 (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:34 PM

8. Thanks for getting my rant.

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Response to 20score (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:51 PM

9. .

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