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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:22 PM

 

Chicago banned handguns 28 years ago. 5000 killed there by guns. Are we safe yet?

More people were killed in Chicago, 5000 since 2001 (with guns) than US troops killed in the war zone of Afghanistan. Obviously banning guns doesn't make us safer. Why are people so afraid to confront the real issue? A recent study reported that 1 in 5 American adults takes at least one psychiatric drug to treat depression and/or anxiety, a 22 percent increase since 2001

The Daily pointed out in a Friday column that more Chicago residents -- 228 -- have been killed so far this year in the city than the number of U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan - 144 -- over the same period.

The war zone-like statistics are not new. As WBEZ reports, while some 2,000 U.S. troops have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, more than 5,000 people have been killed by gun fire in Chicago during that time, based on Department of Defense and FBI data.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/16/chicago-homicide-rate-wor_n_1602692.html

The Supreme Court's Monday ruling invalidated Chicago's 28-year-old ban on handguns for all practical purposes, and while people like South Side grandfather Otis McDonald celebrate, others are not as excited.

McDonald, who filed the lawsuit that led to the court's decision, has been making the media rounds and saying that he is happy he can finally buy a gun--to protect himself from the thugs in his neighborhood.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/29/chicago-gun-ban-reversal_n_629187.html


A recent study reported that 1 in 5 American adults takes at least one psychiatric drug to treat depression and/or anxiety, a 22 percent increase since 2001. Do you get what this means? This means that in an office of 100 people, 20 of them enough to form an entire department will be on medication.

In the average family of 2 parents and 2 1/2 kids, one of them will eventually take psychiatric drugs. At your next high school reunion of 1,000 graduates, 200 of them will be on mind-altering drugs.


Read more: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/1-in-5-americans-takes-a-psychiatric-drug.html#ixzz2F5BMtkyW

99 replies, 5064 views

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Reply Chicago banned handguns 28 years ago. 5000 killed there by guns. Are we safe yet? (Original post)
DaniDubois Dec 2012 OP
SoonerPride Dec 2012 #1
femmocrat Dec 2012 #2
Codeine Dec 2012 #6
SoonerPride Dec 2012 #9
Codeine Dec 2012 #12
DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #16
Kurska Dec 2012 #43
davidn3600 Dec 2012 #47
backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #54
TheDebbieDee Dec 2012 #18
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #51
TheDebbieDee Dec 2012 #93
spin Dec 2012 #62
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #46
Kennah Dec 2012 #52
Ter Dec 2012 #29
Kolesar Dec 2012 #3
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #58
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #4
krawhitham Dec 2012 #30
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #36
Kurska Dec 2012 #45
AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #48
Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #5
Happyhippychick Dec 2012 #15
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #22
Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #27
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #42
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #57
Edweird Dec 2012 #75
Demonaut Dec 2012 #35
AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #50
Bandit Dec 2012 #81
Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2012 #7
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #17
myrna minx Dec 2012 #8
LittlestStar Dec 2012 #10
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #60
lunasun Dec 2012 #11
neverforget Dec 2012 #13
moondust Dec 2012 #37
ThatPoetGuy Dec 2012 #14
tiny elvis Dec 2012 #19
Generic Brad Dec 2012 #20
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #21
Kolesar Dec 2012 #24
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #68
Kolesar Dec 2012 #72
fearnobush Dec 2012 #23
MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #25
forestpath Dec 2012 #26
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #40
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #76
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #85
sellitman Dec 2012 #87
theKed Dec 2012 #89
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #91
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #28
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #31
Bonobo Dec 2012 #32
Demonaut Dec 2012 #33
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #34
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #38
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #39
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #41
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #53
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #56
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #55
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #59
Edweird Dec 2012 #80
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #95
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #44
DaniDubois Dec 2012 #61
Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #64
Kolesar Dec 2012 #66
AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #49
former-republican Dec 2012 #63
AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #86
former-republican Dec 2012 #90
AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #96
Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #65
hatrack Dec 2012 #67
pintobean Dec 2012 #69
hatrack Dec 2012 #70
pintobean Dec 2012 #73
Kolesar Dec 2012 #82
JaneyVee Dec 2012 #71
99Forever Dec 2012 #74
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #77
99Forever Dec 2012 #83
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #84
baldguy Dec 2012 #78
spanone Dec 2012 #79
Beacool Dec 2012 #88
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #92
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #94
Bonobo Dec 2012 #97
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #98
retread Dec 2012 #99

Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:23 PM

1. Ban all guns then

Repeal the 2nd amendment.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:25 PM

2. +1

That works for me.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:27 PM

6. What do you intend to do with all the guns out there?

Do you honestly believe going out and rounding up all the guns would be anything less than a nightmare without equal?

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Response to Codeine (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

9. Melt them down

Stop selling bullets.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:32 PM

12. Who's going to collect them? nt

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Response to Codeine (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:38 PM

16. No one would need to collect them

Gun owners can turn them in. 50 years in federal prison with no parole for being caught with a gun. Life with no parole for committing a crime with a gun. That should take care of about 70% of the guns, with vigorous enforcement. The remaining 30% would be hidden by gun enthusiasts, but they'd be pretty well out of commission in their hiding places. Gun deaths would be dramatically curtailed.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:38 AM

43. What an amazing kneejerk and after you've imprisoned more americans that at any time in history will

you be satisfied?

Not that this will ever happen.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:46 AM

47. So in other word....totalitarianism is the answer?

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:34 AM

54. agreed...we need more of this attitude

life without parole for heroin possession

Life without parole for burglery

Life without parole for
any crime.

We will instantly be a law abiding society

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Response to Codeine (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:39 PM

18. We don't have to re-invent this wheel..........

We can get rid of handguns and firearms the same way they got rid of them in Europe - take the same steps in the same order. The research has already been doen for us................

Same thing with health care.

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:04 AM

51. Color me clueless... how did they get "rid" of handguns in Europe?

Are you saying there isn't a handgun to be found in civilian hands anywhere on the continent?

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:27 PM

93. No that's not what I'm saying, but the number of handguns there has been restricted enough

so that the people who have them aren't just walking the streets looking for any reason to shoot someone. Or shouting from the rooftops that they have weapons.

The few people who still have handguns in Europe are keeping it a secret!

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Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:16 AM

62. What worked in Europe would fail in the United States at this time. ...

These are the reasons:

1) America has a far higher percentage of gun owners than these nations had. There are an estimated 80,000,000 gun owners in our nation. Often members of a gun owner's family also enjoy shooting although they might not be counted as a gun owner. For example I bought and owned the firearms but both my wife and I went target shooting on a weekly basis. She had a revolver of mine that she considered her gun.

2) Gun owners can and do vote against politicians who wish to impose draconian gun control in many areas of our nation. Any politician from a red state who said he supported banning and confiscating all firearms would lose his seat in Congress at the next election. Even a politician from a very liberal state might find his election or reelection much harder if he advocated your idea. Professional politicians have little interest in having to find a new line of work.

3) We have an estimated 300,000,000 firearms in our nation. Many states do not require firearms to be registered, so in these states it is impossible to know who owns what firearm.

4) Europe never had a gun culture similar to the one in the United States. Many gun owners seriously believe that firearms guarantee their freedom and that a government that would ban and confiscate their weapons would shortly turn into a dictatorship or tyranny. They would be unwilling to turn in their weapons voluntarily even if they were threatened with a long prison term for failure to comply.

5) Locking good honest responsible citizens up simply because they owned firearms would prove very unpopular. It would also be very expensive to imprison several hundreds of thousands of gun owners but that might be necessary to prove that you are willing to do it in order to force the remainder to turn in their weapons. Many would simply place their weapons and ammo in a gun cache in PCP pipes underground. (Some gun owners have already done this.) A quick search on Google will find numerous sites with instructions on how to do this.

6) It would be difficult to find enough brave law enforcement officers willing to go house to house and round up gun owners and their weapons as many officers support gun rights. You might say the military could do the job but the attempt would definitely convince gun owners that our government was indeed turning into a tyranny. The results would probably be very bloody and might lead to some states leaving our Union.




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Response to Codeine (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:40 AM

46. Who the fuck cares what kind of a NIGHTMARE it is?

And you have the nerve to call that a nightmare without equal TODAY???? Christ on a crutch.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:17 AM

52. No need to worry about it because it would never happen.

Another push for an "assault weapon ban", which didn't ban but merely prevented future sales, and the GOP will surge back into power with George P or Jeb in the White House in 2016.

Burning down the nation by turning it over to the plutocrats will help kids how exactly?

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:10 PM

29. You don't even have to officially repeal it

 

The 4th and 10th are effectively gone.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:26 PM

3. The weaponeers seem to be running with this "mental health and antidepressants" meme lately

It's like climate change deniers--every year they are launching different propaganda and feigning concern about the victims.

Here it is again, from an hour ago: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021985614

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:51 AM

58. It IS true.

I was a nurse for years. We have a dismal mental health infrastructure in this country. My husband is a family physician. It is near impossible to get real help for people. There are waiting lists for inpatient and out patient help. You almost have to Baker act someone to get immediate help anymore.
Connecticut has very strong gun laws in place. Really, you would have to outright ban them to keep stuff like this from happening.
In China today someone tried to knife a bunch of children. Lots were hurt but none killed I don't think. There are just mentally unstable people out there.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:27 PM

4. Ban overturned by the McDonald v. Chicago ruling in 2010

 

Annual gun deaths have soared by more than double since the ruling.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:23 PM

30. +1

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:58 PM

36. Funny how the OP missed that tidbit. nt

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:39 AM

45. They passed a new just as strict ban n/t

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Response to Kurska (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:49 AM

48. Good

n/t

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:27 PM

5. I see the gun fellatiators are running out of talking points.

 

How many other people were killed in that same time? Oh yeah somewhere between 100,000 to 500,000 or more depending on what set of statistics you go by.

And those soldiers, oh yeah, they were in military armor and blown up. How many of those happened in Chicago?

Pathetic horseshit you are pedaling asshat.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:36 PM

15. They could claim more people die from global warming than gunfire. But that would mean they believe

in science.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:47 PM

22. Calling me an asshat and horseshit isn't going to solve anything. This has everything to do

 

with mental health issues. Banning guns isn't going to stop these crazies from running you or your loved ones down in a car or doing many other horrible things (that I won't mention here) to murder innocent people. Guns were banned in many countries like Mexico and now the locals biggest fear is being shot by a criminal who doesn't care about the law.

Seriously, nothing will change until you address the mental health issue. This isn't propaganda, this is a fact. If you can prove banning guns will stop the psychos from killing, then by all means... but you can't because you know they'll still kill, because they are crazy. Banning a gun isn't going to magically make them better.

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:05 PM

27. So are the people killing people in Mexico all crazy? NOOOOOO

 

So fuck your NRA mass murderer apologist bullshit.

The guns ARE the problem not running people over with cars or hammers or knives or anything else that your fantasy world wants to deflect to.

Grow the fuck up, get a clue, and stop making exscuses for mass murderer enablers.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:35 AM

42. No Dave, the people killing people in Mexico are cartels who were armed by the US government through

 

a program called "The Fast and Furious" It is illegal for the innocent civilians being killed to have any weapons to defend themselves from the cartels.

Yet the U.S. has approved the sale of more guns to Mexico in recent years than ever before through a program called "direct commercial sales." It's a program that some say is worse than the highly-criticized "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal, where U.S. agents allowed thousands of weapons to pass from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels.

CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson discovered that the official tracking all those guns sold through "direct commercial sales" leaves something to be desired.

One weapon - an AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle - tells the story. In 2006, this same kind of rifle - tracked by serial number - is legally sold by a U.S. manufacturer to the Mexican military.

Three years later - it's found in a criminal stash in a region wracked by Mexican drug cartel violence.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:49 AM

57. the chicago killings are also inter-gang drugtrade driven for

the most part




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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:45 AM

75. Curiously enough Mexico has some of the strictest gun controls laws IN THE WORLD.

 

How's that working out for them?

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:34 PM

35. well it makes us feel better, posting in defense of guns right after this event

shows what an asshat you are

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:59 AM

50. You use the "cars kill people" talking point

I hear that from republicans all the time. Are cars being used in these rampages, or guns?

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:00 AM

81. Also when they talk about war deaths they only seem to talk about one side

How many deaths were there if you consider all the other people killed besides just US soldiers. How many women and children were "collateral damage"? It is almost as if only Americans are worth mentioning when it comes to killing.....No one else matters I guess...

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

7. For starters, maybe non-Chicagoans might... ah, fuck it.

Fuck it.

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Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:39 PM

17. What they forget to tell you about Chicago is the fact that there is no longer a ban

 

McDonald v. Chicago ended the ban in 2010.

Since that SCOTUS ruling, annual gun deaths have more than doubled. Most are children.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

8. THe NRA and their memes can go to hell.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

10. How can that help when a gun show 5 miles away is still selling automatic weapons? nt

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Response to LittlestStar (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:56 AM

60. It costs a fortune to buy an automatic weapon

and I think you need a Federal check for that with a ton of forms. It was that way in the 80s and I don't think it ever changed. The feds keep a close watch on them if I am not mistaken.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:30 PM

11. Suicidal tendencies and violent, destructive thoughts behavioral side effects

of psychiatric meds

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:33 PM

13. 300 million guns in the US. Are we safe yet?

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Response to neverforget (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:14 AM

37. +1

Nukes for everybody!

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:34 PM

14. Bunch of fucking lies.

Chicago couldn't effectively ban handguns, because they were available immediately outside Chicago's borders -- walking distance for many people. NRA-loving, profit-from-murder scumbags set up gun shops right on the exit lines, like fireworks dealers just south of the Mexican border.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:41 PM

19. first rule of fight club

chicago is crazy

the law is against you

people are crazy

therefore,

do not talk about fight club

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:43 PM

20. We'll be safer if we ban ammo

Just try shooting a gun without it.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:45 PM

21. Don't know about Chicago (thugs took over during the ban?) but stats prove you're wrong.

The data seems clear. The states with gun laws do indeed have fewer deaths-by-gun than those that don't. The types of gun laws vary.

It's also common sense. If you have to wait a few weeks to buy a gun, tempers have time to calm down. An abusive ex has time to be stopped. If you can't buy an assault weapon, it's harder to kill 20 children in 20 minutes, than if yu have a 38 revolver.

Guns have a purpose. Responsible gun ownership is a good thing. Most responsible gun owners agree with that. And we're all fed up with the mass killings, aren't we? SOMETHING must be done. We've seen the alternative.

It could be that Chicago was targeted by mobsters and thugs, when the gun ban went into effect...Chicago has quite a history with that sort of thing. BUT ILLINOIS HAS A FAIRLY LOW DEATHS-BY-GUN rate, compared with other states. No doubt that's a result of various gun laws. The states with no gun restrictions have the highest deaths-by-gun rates. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

The link has a map of the US indicating the deaths-by-gun rates of the states, and which states have gun restriction laws of some sort. As you can see, the south (the biggest gun owning area) has far and away the largest rate of deaths by guns.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:53 PM

24. Waiting periods seem like a great idea

Background checks are secondary, and the concept of "instant background checks" is a compromise that weakens the effect of a cooling off period. thanks for the summary

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:14 AM

68. I have a gun for protection. I would have no problem with a waiting period....

Anyone buying a gun for a reasonable, legal purpose should have no problem applying for a gun one week, then going back next month to make the actual purchase, after a thorough background check and waiting period. Whether it's someone buying for protection, hunting, or even a gun collector.

NRA and some gun owners don't like that because of the GUN SHOWS. Guns are bought and sold on the spot.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:25 AM

72. & If some of the customers are unavailable, then the market price for the product drops

It's all about money.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:52 PM

23. The NRA leadership is a true terrorist organization

I've hated you since Columbine. You've created easy access for mass murder. You use to be a gun safety org. Now your just a bunch of ALEC lobbyist terrorists.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:57 PM

25. Let's just ban all laws since so many people flout them anyway

 

Make it legal to run red lights, drive while intoxicated, use all drugs, murder and rape each other, burn each other's houses down, etc., etc. Who needs those pesky laws against them?

People still keep right on doing them anyway!

So there is no point in having any laws.

Right?

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:00 PM

26. There ya go!

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:08 AM

40. Your post made me sad. I was alive at a time when people still believed in personal responsibility.

 

We didn't want to regulate everyone else's life. We didn't need laws to tell us it was wrong to murder, rape, or burn each others house down. We believed people who raped and murdered would do so with or without a law against it.

There are laws against everything now. Laws against drinking even one beer and driving even though you aren't drunk. Yet people still drive so smashed they cant see straight. All the new driving under the influence laws did was kill a lot of small corner bar owners because the people aren't even allowed to have one beer after work without it costing them thousands in fines, and like I said, those who would chose to drive drunk are still doing so. The law hasn't affected them at all.

It always comes down to education and personal responsibility for ones self and their family. Something no one seems to want to talk about anymore because we can just regulate it all away.

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:49 AM

76. "We didn't need laws...." ARE YOU COMPLETELY STUPID??

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:17 AM

85. Libertarian horseshit. Nt.

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:27 AM

87. The bodies are still fucking warm

And you NRA loones are out defending gun ownership.

You are in the wrong house.

**click**

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:01 AM

89. I think you're looking for LibertarianUnderground.com

It's over that way ----->

Here at DemocraticUnderground.com we don't truck with NRA deflection bullshit.

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:02 PM

91. What color is the sky in Personal Responsibilityland?

You are not only spouting total illogical nonsense, you are spouting Libertarian nonsense.

There have been laws codifying and restricting human behavior since Hammurabi.


You state that bars are being put out of business due to onerous drunk-driving laws, then in the very same sentence, say that people who frequent those bars are IGNORING those laws anyway.


Which is it?


Please show me any real evidence supporting all those bars being put out of business due to DUI laws, I've heard that bullshit excuse for years now. It's a favorite of the liquor industry.


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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)


Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:24 PM

31. Chicago doesn't have a border patrol.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:25 PM

32. Sometimes an OP is SO stupid that it defies belief.

Do I need to explain that banning guns in one place is meaningless? Really?

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:31 PM

33. keep on defending the indefensible...douchebag arguement

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:34 PM

34. Because Chicago is an island totally cut off from the US mainland, right?



The only thing this proves is that any ban or regulation has to be done Federally and not at the state or local level to be effective.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:46 AM

38. Banning on the federal level worked really well for drugs. The government became the dealers the

 

banks laundered the money, the people who used them went to prisons that made the prison industrial complex rich beyond belief and made the US the number one prison population in the world. Yeah, we got this all figured out.

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:57 AM

39. Except we're not talking about drugs, are we?

It's worked rather better for fully automatic weapons.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:23 AM

41. Do you really believe all those fully automatic weapons just disappeared from the hands of the

 

rednecks and gun nuts? I can promise you they didn't. All that law did was assure that people like you aren't able to get them. The people who don't want them anyway.

And yes, I'd say it's pretty safe to safe to compare a ban on guns to the ban on drugs. We've seen the US government arming the Mexican cartels with the fast and furious. Those cartels murdered innocent people who had no way to protect themselves because it was illegal for them to have a gun. There's no denying this and this was done by the US government.

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:22 AM

53. You clearly have no idea what sort of person I happen to be

and no, it's not, honestly, you have to be a fuckwit to compare plants that can be grown by anyone in the right soil and conditions to mechanical devices that require advanced precision manufacturing processes.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #53)


Response to DaniDubois (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:36 AM

55. Another stupid false equivalency.

Can drugs go on a mass murder spree? Can drugs suddenly go off and kill people accidentally? I am so sick of the lack of logical reasoning skills exhibited by gun nuts.

Your OP sucks.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:52 AM

59. No drugs cant go on a murder spree but the US government can arm the bad guys as they've done

 

in the past through a program called "The Fast and Furious" In Mexico. It is illegal for the innocent civilians being killed to have any weapons to defend themselves from the cartels. The US government supplied the cartels with the weapons.

Yet the U.S. has approved the sale of more guns to Mexico in recent years than ever before through a program called "direct commercial sales." It's a program that some say is worse than the highly-criticized "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal, where U.S. agents allowed thousands of weapons to pass from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels.

CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson discovered that the official tracking all those guns sold through "direct commercial sales" leaves something to be desired.

One weapon - an AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle - tells the story. In 2006, this same kind of rifle - tracked by serial number - is legally sold by a U.S. manufacturer to the Mexican military.

Three years later - it's found in a criminal stash in a region wracked by Mexican drug cartel violence.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:59 AM

80. For your excuse to work there would have to be zero guns anywhere in the world.

 

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Response to Edweird (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:12 PM

95. Because London and Melbourne and Tokyo have serious gun crime problems, right?

Oh...wait.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:39 AM

44. Does Chicago have a 30 foot wall around it?

God, what a fucking stupid argument. That's a false equivalency. Compare US shootings to shootings in other first world countries. THAT is the only equivalency.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:07 AM

61. It's not false. My point is the US government supplies the weapons to the criminals once you make

 

them illegal for the people. Do you think it wouldn't happen in America? How many CIA planes have come down full of drugs heading for the US? Did you miss that one? should I provide you with links? Yet all of this makes you feel safe. The government always does whats in the best interests of the people once something is banned. Yeah Ok, you just keep believing that.

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Response to DaniDubois (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:36 AM

64. anyone who believes this OP is serious should read this post.

Fifty shades of crazy.

"if the gov would ban guns, the gov would start selling guns to thugs"

Massive fail...

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:50 AM

66. Somebody spent too much time in the room with the tube of airplane glue open...eom

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:51 AM

49. You did not mention gang violence in your OP

Why is that? Chicago is the most gang infested city in the USA, that's why the ban. The shootings in Chicago are almost all GANG RELATED. Did you miss that or leave it out on purpose?

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:17 AM

63. FBI: Burgeoning gangs behind up to 80% of U.S. crime

 

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Response to former-republican (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:21 AM

86. 80% of shootings in the country are gang related?

Nope.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #86)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:03 AM

90. Prove it wrong

 

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Response to former-republican (Reply #90)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:11 AM

96. Your the one making the assertion

The burden of proof is on you. Defend gun lunacy at all costs.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:37 AM

65. OP logic...

Fifty shades of crazy.

"if the gov would ban guns, the gov would start selling guns to thugs"

Massive fail...

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:11 AM

67. 12 hours after the fact, cops still busy recording blood spatter data in the kindergarten . . .

And you come here to post this SHIT?

Take your 154 posts and shove them up your ass. Why don't you go clean a loaded gun while you're at it?

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Response to hatrack (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:19 AM

69. You really should remove

that last sentence. It contradicts the sentiment of your post.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:21 AM

70. Why do you imagine that I care what you think?

nt

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Response to pintobean (Reply #69)


Response to hatrack (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:08 AM

82. Well said...eom

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:23 AM

71. Chicago violence stems from poverty & lack of opportunity.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:37 AM

74. So the basic premise of your horseshit post...

... is that if we can't find a perfect solution to keep murdering, scumbag, asshole gun psychos from killing innocents, including babies, we should do nothing?

Need I tell you where you can place that?

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:49 AM

77. That is a very typical tactic, isn't it?

Can't find a perfect energy source that will power EVERYTHING for EVERYONE? Dump all green energy research. Can't immediately solve the climate crisis? Forget about it and do nothing. On and on. More of the same.

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Response to LisaLynne (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:11 AM

83. It's the same play that always gets used.

'cept of course, when it comes to cutting taxes for the rich.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #83)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:15 AM

84. Oh, well, that would be silly!

If it doesn't instantly fix every problem in the known universe, let's just do nothing! It's so much easier ...

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:55 AM

78. More RW gun-nut stupidity.

Just because a local ban doesn't stop someone driving a few miles down the road to get a gun illegally doesn't mean it's not effective or should be overturned. It means that we should - we must - have a national ban, because the community of gun owners have proven that they are incapable of keeping their guns away from people who are intent on killing.

America has no internal border checkpoints. Such would be a restriction on our freedoms. You know what else is a restriction on our freedoms? FEAR. Having more guns easily available makes fear a greater threat than anything else.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:56 AM

79. go away gun NUTS

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:41 AM

88. Keep the guns, ban the ammo.

There's no reason why a civilian should have the kind of ammo that it should only be available for law enforcement and the military. All these mass killings have been possible because individuals are using fire arms that can shoot multiple rounds before needing to reload. It has become so easy to kill many people in a very short time. Well, let them keep their guns, but outlaw the ammo needed to operate them.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:16 PM

92. The supply of easily obtainable firearms is a NATIONAL problem...

....and obviously can't be solved by banning them in a single city. People will just bring the guns in from the outside.

It's going to take a nationwide solution, but after yesterday's terrible news do we finally have what it takes to overcome the massive efforts of the NRA gun lobby?

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:29 PM

94. Jury voted 4-2 to keep NRA gun troll post. Too bad.

We should have zero tolerance for this nonsense here. 20 kids dead. Think about that on your next jury for some gun nut post.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #94)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:13 AM

97. I don't think the gun nuts appreciate our anger.

I am fucking furious and ready to rip the head off anyone defending the right to own guns.

Just me emotions and obviously I wouldn't act on them, but I am really seeing red. How about you?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #97)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:50 AM

98. I've already said repeatedly "alert on all of them and vote to hide".

Lets make this place inhospitable to gun culture. Zero tolerance.

You and i disagree about some things, but I think we both have our hearts in the right place.

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Response to DaniDubois (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:52 AM

99. What you are saying is "I won't let them take

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