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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:17 PM

it sucks that innocent brother was handcuffed and perp walked by cops

He wasn't even in the same city of the shootings. It sucks.

149 replies, 7940 views

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Arrow 149 replies Author Time Post
Reply it sucks that innocent brother was handcuffed and perp walked by cops (Original post)
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2012 OP
we can do it Dec 2012 #1
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #3
donco Dec 2012 #11
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #65
regnaD kciN Dec 2012 #130
we can do it Dec 2012 #24
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #27
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #52
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #62
Texasgal Dec 2012 #79
juajen Dec 2012 #39
StarryNite Dec 2012 #81
Patiod Dec 2012 #58
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #124
liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #12
lunatica Dec 2012 #29
vaberella Dec 2012 #100
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #125
WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2012 #2
Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #4
WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2012 #14
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #63
Thegonagle Dec 2012 #115
Sissyk Dec 2012 #118
JimDandy Dec 2012 #116
bettyellen Dec 2012 #5
gateley Dec 2012 #6
godai Dec 2012 #10
gateley Dec 2012 #18
FunkyLeprechaun Dec 2012 #90
vaberella Dec 2012 #101
gateley Dec 2012 #7
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #56
CreekDog Dec 2012 #142
gateley Dec 2012 #149
randome Dec 2012 #8
JI7 Dec 2012 #21
arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #23
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #28
randome Dec 2012 #42
we can do it Dec 2012 #43
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #49
CreekDog Dec 2012 #143
pnwmom Dec 2012 #122
FarCenter Dec 2012 #9
RichGirl Dec 2012 #13
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #30
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #57
EmeraldCityGrl Dec 2012 #88
pnwmom Dec 2012 #119
CreekDog Dec 2012 #146
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #66
CreekDog Dec 2012 #145
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #15
arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #22
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #16
Baitball Blogger Dec 2012 #17
slackmaster Dec 2012 #26
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #34
Baitball Blogger Dec 2012 #45
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #47
Baitball Blogger Dec 2012 #53
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #70
oberliner Dec 2012 #104
oberliner Dec 2012 #105
JI7 Dec 2012 #19
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #64
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #67
JI7 Dec 2012 #98
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #107
Chemisse Dec 2012 #106
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #132
Chemisse Dec 2012 #135
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #136
Chemisse Dec 2012 #138
nolabear Dec 2012 #20
slackmaster Dec 2012 #25
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #32
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #31
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #68
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #78
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #95
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #117
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #131
underpants Dec 2012 #71
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #80
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #33
raccoon Dec 2012 #35
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #37
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #87
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #36
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #40
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #46
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #48
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #92
ceeRoy Dec 2012 #38
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #41
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #72
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #85
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #133
2naSalit Dec 2012 #114
slackmaster Dec 2012 #51
vaberella Dec 2012 #102
Renew Deal Dec 2012 #127
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #134
Paladin Dec 2012 #44
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #50
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #54
Puregonzo1188 Dec 2012 #61
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #94
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #75
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #77
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #93
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #55
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #59
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #86
ChairmanAgnostic Dec 2012 #60
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #69
EmeraldCityGrl Dec 2012 #91
MadrasT Dec 2012 #73
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #74
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #76
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #84
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2012 #96
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #109
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #97
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #111
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #112
underpants Dec 2012 #82
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #83
SoCalDem Dec 2012 #89
Sissyk Dec 2012 #123
vaberella Dec 2012 #103
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #108
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #110
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #120
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #126
Son of Gob Dec 2012 #144
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #147
Bonobo Dec 2012 #121
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #128
vaberella Dec 2012 #99
David__77 Dec 2012 #113
Warpy Dec 2012 #129
Rex Dec 2012 #137
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2012 #139
Rex Dec 2012 #140
name not needed Dec 2012 #141
Rex Dec 2012 #148

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:18 PM

1. Not as much as it sucked being in the kindergarten class.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:21 PM

3. Or being thrown into a volcano...

Seriously, what is your point?

It does, in fact, suck to be publicly identified as someone who shot a classroom of five year-olds.

And it sucks for innocent people to be handcuffed and perp-walked.

Unless you blame the brother for the shootings your seeming hostility toward him, or the OP, makes little sense.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:46 PM

11. Hows the cop

know that he was innocent?Rules are that anytime you don't know ,you error on the side of safety and say you're sorry later.

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Response to donco (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:18 PM

65. Ever hear of 'false arrest'? What was the probable cause here? - n/t

 

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Response to donco (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:55 AM

130. The fact that he was a) in New Jersey and b) alive...

...should have been a pretty big clue, considering the shooter had already been found dead inside the school two states away.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:27 AM

24. I don't blame him or the police for doing their job, especially after what happened.

I am beyond pissed about what happened and it's too fucking bad that someone felt embarrassed.

Its also a fucking shame that someone in the family didn't notice that the shooter needed help.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:48 AM

27. Sociopaths are not mentally ill

They neither need nor can get :help."

Your lack of sympathy for the brother is appalling. He is also a victim of this tragedy. This young man's family was also destroyed by this.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:57 AM

52. If I'm the brother here's what I'm upset about (and in what order)

1) My Mother is Dead
2) My Father is Dead
3) A whole lot of innocent kids and adults are dead
4) My brother is dead and he killed all of the above
5)I got perp walked.

And really, 5 is so far, far below the others its almost off the scale.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:02 PM

62. the father isn't dead and wasn't in the same city

Ryan lives in NJ while the father (Peter) lives in Stamford, CT. Apparently, Peter was also taken in for questioning but more likely for background info on the shooter. The parents have been divorced for several years, and Adam (the shooter) lived with the mother. According to Ryan, the two brothers have been estranged for several years. I'm guessing that Ryan was also estranged from his mother and the estrangement likely came with the divorce with Ryan going to live with the father. Adam shot the mother in the home and then proceeded to the school where he went on his rampage.

There's been a ridiculous amount of misinformation by the tv talkers. Now they're saying that Adam didn't purchase any weapons and they belonged to the mother. Yet another example is that some tv talkers say were told by police that Ryan's ID was found on Adam's body which is why they thought Ryan was the shooter, but others say that the mistake in names was because some police spokesperson mistakenly transposed the first names of the brothers to the media.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:16 PM

79. Wait... The Dad is dead?

Where did you hear that?

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Response to we can do it (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:02 AM

39. It is not that easy to commit somebody, and she probably feared for her life.

We have no help for these people now. Most insurance only covers cursory checks. Alcohol or other addiction could have also been part of this scenario. Time will tell us more, but don't be so quick to blame a mother, please. We get blamed for everything else, so perhaps you could lay off. As for the brother, please. Living his own life in another city and probably had no way to help. Standard procedure in this country these days is to just brush the mentally ill aside.

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Response to juajen (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:21 PM

81. "she probably feared for her life"

so she had guns in the house that he had access to?

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Response to we can do it (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:07 AM

58. It sounds like everyone knew the shooter needed help

It sounds like the mother was worried, thus staying home with him. What exactly can you do with a 20 year old with Asperger's who spends most of his time playing video games when he's not creeping out the neighbors.

A kid exactly like this in the Philadelphia suburbs murdered his whole family recently. Everyone (including the family) knew he was troubled, but what exactly could the family do?

This is not to paint everyone on the autism spectrum with the same brush -- these two people are clearly anomolies. Just saying that if someone refuses treatment, what is their family supposed to do?

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Response to Patiod (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:11 AM

124. What do you do?

 

Step one: Get the fucking guns out of the fucking house.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:50 PM

12. Yes, but he's not the one who shot them.

And he's lost both his mother and his brother today and will be forever shamed as the brother of such a monster, for the next fifty or more years of his life, which means he cannot even ever grieve for his own family properly. So let's not be too cavalier towards him now, shall we?

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Response to we can do it (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:51 AM

29. They caught their mistake very quickly

Especially since the real killer was lying dead in the school.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:46 PM

100. Strawman. n/t

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Response to we can do it (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:13 AM

125. the kid lost his mom & brother, was id'd as the shooter, and now has to cope with the guilt of

 

his brother being a mass child-murderer. give him a break, he didn't do anything wrong.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:19 PM

2. Why did he have his brother's ID on him?

That's what I just heard on a 20/20 special.

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

4. Set him up? I don't know. The brother said he hadn't spoken with the shooter since 2010...

If true, how'd he get his ID?

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:53 PM

14. Interesting. I missed that part...

about not being in contact for 2 years.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:08 PM

63. That thought occurred to me, too

But some other media have been saying that the mistaken identity was just a mistake made by a police spokesperson who accidentally transposed the brothers' first names in reporting to the media. I still can't figure out if Adam had Ryan's ID on him or not, and if they were estranged how in the world would he have gotten it unless he had an old expired one that Ryan forgot to throw away. I still can't figure out if he had Ryan's ID on him or not or whether or not it was Ryan's current one and how he got the current one if they were estranged.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:05 PM

115. Probably swiped it without telling his brother so he could buy booze.

Brother figures he lost it somewhere, orders replacement, and life goes on until...

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:48 AM

118. Here is the thing though...

If everyone would listen to the press conferences, the Officer in Charge (I'm sorry, I cant remember his name) has still not released the name of the shooter.

So all the first releases were not official, right?

This is just so so horrible for all involved, but how Adam got Ryan's ID is a question I have had all day.

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Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:03 PM

116. Perhaps he took his brother's ID in 2010 to purchase alcohol,

like other underage teens do? Plausibile...

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:29 PM

5. it could have been an old ID he swiped

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:32 PM

6. Who had whose ID?

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Response to gateley (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:42 PM

10. Shooter had brother's ID n/t

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Response to godai (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:53 AM

18. Ok - thanks.

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Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:25 PM

90. Some people keep their old IDs

I live in the UK and I still have some old IDs of mine in the US (I just like keeping things). The shooter probably swiped his brother's old ID from his mom's storage (if it is believed that the brothers hadn't talked to each other since 2010).

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #90)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:47 PM

101. I keep all my ID's I recently found my old Virgin Megastore ID where I worked when I was 19.

My afro was to die for...I wonder what my 1999 afro self would say to my dreadlocked self today.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:35 PM

7. They looked like they were being pretty gentle with him. Probably

Just SOP. I was handcuffed and put in the back of a cop car for driving on a suspended license -- and I'm a gray-haired old lady. They were just following procedures.

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Response to gateley (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:04 AM

56. That's actually breaking the law though.

All indications so far are that this guy was shocked by what happened, at least according to the screen shots of his comments after his picture was posted across the world by so many in the media.

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Response to gateley (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:16 AM

142. you were arrested for something your sibling did?

that's interesting.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #142)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:07 PM

149. Yes. That's exactly what I said.



You understand the point I was trying to make. If you don't agree with it, why don't you just say that (like the other person who commented on my post)? Why the snark?

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:37 PM

8. So what?

Who cares if this guy was inconvenienced a bit while the police tried to take control of a horrible situation?

In an emergency, we expect police to take all measures to protect us. They did their jobs and they did them professionally.

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Response to randome (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:04 AM

21. yeah, for many minorites it's a part of life

and in those cases it's not even because something horrible happened or they have some connection to a suspect.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:14 AM

23. Harsh words,

founded in reality, I am ashamed to say.

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Response to randome (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:50 AM

28. "this guy" is also a victim and his family was also detroyed

He is a VICTIM. The lack of compassion for this young man on these threads is appalling to me.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:06 AM

42. I have tons of compassion for this guy and his family.

But not because the police did their jobs.

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Response to randome (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:08 AM

43. +1

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Response to randome (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:51 AM

49. Please say where I said the cops shouldn't ahve checked him out?

Oh, you can't, because I never said that.

Your original post showed what you think of this young man and his plight.

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Response to randome (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:17 AM

143. well i'm not surprised you think he deserved to be arrested

would you like to be arrested for someone else's crime?

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Response to randome (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:55 AM

122. Since they knew they had the shooter

why would they think they had to arrest the other guy, who showed up much later?

By the time they had the name "Ryan Lanza," the shooter was dead. So when the real Ryan Lanza showed up, hours later, he obviously wasn't the shooter. Why should his name be enough to make him a threat? Did they arrest the father, too? His last name was also Lanza.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:41 PM

9. Early reports were that the car had NJ plates.

Maybe the car was registered in his name?

His father and mother seem to both be CT residents, although the father might spend time in NJ?

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:51 PM

13. They only took him in to question him....

So save your sympathy for someone who deserves it.

If I had a sibling who did something like this....I would do anything...ANYTHING...to help. I would perp walk myself into the police station.

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Response to RichGirl (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:51 AM

30. This young man does deserve our sympathy -- HE IS ALSO A VICTIM

His didn't do anything, and indeed had his family destroyed yesterday. The lack of compassion for this young man is disgusting me.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:06 AM

57. You are not the only one noticing it.

Many people on DU have turned nasty and are lashing out at anyone and everyone, regardless of whether of not they have said or done anything to deserve it. I have noticed a few agreeing with each other in what they were saying, but sniping at each other in back and forth posts and saying some of the most horrible things to each other.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:19 PM

88. Yes. it's different than anything I've seen here before.n/t

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:52 AM

119. I agree. He is just as innocent as any of the other adults touched by this. nt

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:20 AM

146. i agree and it bothers me that he was treated as the criminal here

also bothers me how many here are justifying treatment of him as wrong.

even bolder are those claiming that they would be happy to go through the same treatment as if to justify it, even though that's tough talk that requires no toughness to make.

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Response to RichGirl (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:22 PM

66. Bullshit. They handcuffed him and did it on national television. - n/t

 

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Response to RichGirl (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:18 AM

145. they cuffed him

and don't talk big about what you would do, tough stuff. you have no idea what you would do or how you would feel about being forced to do it.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:55 PM

15. I feel bad for him. What a loss for him too, today.

Half his family is dead--and responsible for the deaths of so many others.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:11 AM

22. I do too. Another victim of this tragedy

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:56 PM

16. It certainly does.

Awful tragedy over all. . . . I still don't trust the police.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:02 PM

17. He probably is the best one to explain what went on in that household when

they were growing up together. The preliminary assumption, based on who was targeted, is that Adam Lanza didn't just have an issue with his mother. He seemed to also have a disturbing resentment to the children who took his mother's time.

I hope there's a psychiatrist out there who will explain it to us.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:28 AM

26. Yes. He and the father may be the only people alive who can shed much light on it.

 

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:55 AM

34. The children took his Mom's time....OR...people that he thought his Mom cared for

more than she cared for him, maybe? Kill her, then kill those she cares about. Or kill the little ones that he sees as living a privileged existence that he wasn't able to? Who knows.

There are never real answers in these incidents, are there? Weird stuff, yeah. But nothing to explain why someone does this sort of thing, as opposed to the millions facing more hardships and not being violent at all.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:22 AM

45. We'll know more in the coming days.

We already have a neighbor friend who openly said that the mother set "high standards." I don't know if Adam was the second son. But I do know from personal observation how difficult it is for a second son when they have learning disabilities that are not addressed properly, and a first son who seems to do everything with ease. I don't really want to conjecture further. I just hope they tell us soon because we all need to know what went wrong.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:39 AM

47. I saw a man on TV (ha! but supposedly he's FBI, studied mass killers)...he said

I know that man's face, but I forget his name. Anyway, he said several interesting things. One was that no one has figured out why some people do these mass killings. Second, they know that the kind of person who does this is not usually insane or truly mentally ill, altho they definitely have some mental issues...but they have tended to be severely depressed people who see their lives as going nowhere, etc. They often do not have a violent background.

This makes sense to me. Maybe they are sociopathic...OR...I can see where they have objectified their targets, and their targets represent everything that they are not, who have things that the shooter will never have (in his opinion). I can imagine that mindset leading to a situation such as this one. How else to shoot a child point blank than to objectify the child....you are shooting this person who has everything you never had and will never have (or so you think). So you kill people out of anger and revenge. You are maybe not sociopathic...but these particular people have been objectified for that purpose at that time. The killer may actually be empathic toward others who do not represent what he is angry about.

But boy, am I going out in left field here. We don't know much yet. I'm just saying that I could see what that FBI man was talking about. Not that I've ever felt that way...but I could put myself in the place of that person and see how those feelings could lead to the killing of innocent children.

The same way I could put myself in the place of Lizzie Borden, and see what led to her killing of her father and stepmother, esp with an axe. That it was an axe was very important. Don't laugh...I have been fascinated by the Lizzie Borden mystery for years.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:57 AM

53. I've watched, with interest, how the anti-bullying campaign has spread across the school system.

Presumably, this was started as a response to those events where young boys or men, who have had no prior history of violence, suddenly went on a shoot out. Later, it was discovered they had a history of being bullied.

So, that said, I would be most interested to find what disciplinary process was followed in that house.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:30 PM

70. Apparently the Lanza family is a family of privilege

I can only guess that his mother's connection to the school as a teacher's aide had something to do with it. He could have resented the students for taking his mother's time away from him or the opposite... hated his mother and wanted to wipe out those people that she had influence on. Or maybe he just decided to do the most evil thing he could think of before killing himself. Who knows what such a disturbed mind thinks when deciding to do something so horrific? Since he's dead and can't be examined by psychiatrists or questioned about why he did it we're just never going to really know. The best that can be done is try to find out as much about him as possible and try to put together a theory puzzle.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:54 PM

104. The mother had no connection to the school

She did not work there in any capacity.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:55 PM

105. The mom had nothing to do with those children

She was not affiliated with the school in any way.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:54 AM

19. i don't see why it sucks considering all that has happened

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Response to JI7 (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:15 PM

64. The next time you're cuffed and put into a police car for a crime you didn't commit....

....be sure to let us know how you felt.

Additionally, no matter how he may now feel about his brother, his mother was violently murdered and he will never be able to see her or talk with her again.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:25 PM

67. +1. And on national TV, no less. Absolutely disgusting - n/t

 

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:43 PM

98. it happens all the time, you know when kids are killed the parents are the first ones

questioned. i don't see what the problem is.

after 9/11 people got reported on because it sounded like they were speaking in arabic and were brown.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #98)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:04 PM

107. The brother lived a couple of hours away from the scene of the shooting...

...a fact that could have been easily verified without the grandstanding by the local police in Hoboken, NJ.

People were reported on after 9/11 but they weren't cuffed and led away while cameras were rolling.

Give it a break.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:02 PM

106. I'm sure it was awful, but considering the other events of the day,

not such a big deal.

If it were me, I would be so consumed with grief for losing family members, and sorrow for the victims, that I would barely notice the perp walk factor.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #106)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:59 PM

132. "Not such a big deal" to you, but to him I bet it's a nightmare....

...and yes, had you been in his shoes, you would have definitely noticed the "perp walk" along with the TV cameras and the flash of the still cameras pressed against the glass of the police car.

You do understand why some police use the "perp walk" in a highly public way don't you? They already presume the person is guilty and they want to make sure the public knows what a great job they're doing. But, those same police look pretty stupid when their suspect is proven almost immediately to have had absolutely nothing to do with the crime they thought he was good for.

But, the damage has been done. From here on out some people will look at him suspiciously thinking that he may have played some part in the killings and somehow got off on some legal technicality. Imagine what it will be like to go to work every day with that kind of thinking/whispering going on behind his back.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #132)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:49 PM

135. Well we can opin all we want, but only he knows how he felt.

I'm telling you it would not have bothered me so much at such a time. Being humiliated is not such a big deal, as compared with a dead mother, a dead brother, and 20 dead children.

But hey, that's just me.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #135)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:13 PM

136. I guess you're "opining", too. nt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #136)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:55 PM

138. I mostly just said how I would feel, but perhaps I opined a bit.

Which is not a problem. The problem comes in when the opinions take on a life of their own and become stated as truths.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:55 AM

20. Yes, that young man's world just shattered today. So many peoples' did.

I cannot fathom the loss.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:27 AM

25. I feel very, very sorry for that young man

 

He must be devastated.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:53 AM

32. Yes, complete with his brother setting him up

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:52 AM

31. It's standard procedure, and understandable. His ID was on the dead shooter....

it was possible that the brother was dangerous, until he was interviewed and there was an identity investigation.

If it were me, I would totally understand, if my brother had just killed 20 children, and my ID was on his body....they wouldn't know if I had been involved or not.

It was a shame that it was televised.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:28 PM

68. It wasn't merely a 'shame' that it was televised. It was absolutely fucking disgusting and, if

 

people could stop for one second the continual fellating of law enforcement and security services in our culture, a visual emblem of the EPIC FAIL of law enforcement yesterday.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:14 PM

78. The law enforcement seems to have done an outstanding job so far, including picking up the brother

right away, and cuffing him and taking him in for investigation, which is of course what they should have done.

Kudos to the outstanding and quick work by the law enforcement....the only thing standing between us and anarchy.

I EXPECT law enforcement to talk to EVERYONE remotely connected with that killer, and bring in for questioning anyone related to him, or in any way closely connected to the incident.....like your driver's license being found at the scene of the crime. As I said, it's standard procedure to cuff a suspect, which is what he was at that time. No big deal.

There are protocols governing all these things.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:56 PM

95. Your post offers a perfect example of the fellating of law enforcement to which my

 

previous post alluded.

Please explain why it was necessary to handcuff someone in Hoboken for killings that occurred in Connecticut.

The law enforcement seems to have done an outstanding job of closing the barn doors after the horses got out. They do an excellent job of bashing the heads of peaceful, non-violent Occupy protesters who are exercising their First Amendment right to free speech. But in this case, they didn't do jack shit I can see to protect or save anyone.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:34 AM

117. As I said, every law enforcement dept has a standard procedure. Period.

The cops don't stand around and discuss and determine on their own whether to cuff, not cuff, question him, not question him. There's a manual with standard operating procedures that they are required to follow, and supervisors decide who to interrogate or not.

It's not a big deal, seriously. This was a mass murder. His driver's license was in the pocket of the shooter. He needed to be interrogated. They didn't phone him up and ask him to drop by at his convenience. They went and got him and under color of law brought him in for questioning. As they should have done.

The law enforcement seems to be doing an excellent job. They deserve every penny their UNION has made sure they get.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #117)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:48 AM

131. EPIC FAIL. It is a HUGE deal, seriously. It's because of people like you that there's

 

a definite need for organizations like the ACLU.

What SOP was law enforcement following here? The one that says "Handcuff someone whose only connection is the name and blood relationship but who is IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CITY AND STATE FROM THE PLACE WHERE THE CRIME TOOK PLACE. Oh, yeah and while you're at it, make sure you do it in full view of national television so this person is totally humiliated in perpetuity."

Their supervisors should be FIRED for this, imho. Not that it will happen in the atmosphere of 100% fellatio of cops 100% of the time. But it's a thought.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:31 PM

71. That's what I figured too. The cop patted him on the shoulder probably for the cameras

that was my take on it anyway

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Response to underpants (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:17 PM

80. I doubt it. If the brother had turned out to be connected...

the pat on the arm would've looked bad. The guy's driver's license was found at the scene of the crime, after all. But teh cop probably had a sense that the brother wasn't involved. These guys have been doing that kind of work so long they probably can tell whether someone's truly surprised and shocked by an incident, or is suspiciously not as shocked as he should be.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:53 AM

33. Yes it does

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:57 AM

35. It's always easy to see things like that in hindsight. they found the brother's ID.


If they hadn't handcuffed and perp walked the brother, and it turned out he was the shooter, boy, the outrage would be out of this world.



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Response to raccoon (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:00 AM

37. He shouldn't have been perp walked -- that's the problem

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Response to raccoon (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:15 PM

87. He couldn't have been the shooter, because the shooter was dead

in the school by that time.

I can certainly understand the animosity toward the shooter. I tend to think of him as a monster too, but his brother honestly acted like he was shocked by all of this. I don't think the brother was involved. I just don't have the same animosity toward the brother. He lost his mother too, by the same gunman.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:59 AM

36. Too bad! That's pretty much the least of his and others' worries today.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:02 AM

40. He is also a victim -- I don't get this attitude

So many people are showing towards his young man.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:23 AM

46. The police at the time did not have your hindsight. Get it, now?

What they HAD was HIS I.D. FROM THE SCENE.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:50 AM

48. NOT ONCE have I said the cops shouldn't have checked him out

Please link to where I said that.

Get it, now?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:46 PM

92. And the particular part of the "SCENE" where they got that ID

was the shooter, who was dead. They already knew who the shooter was by that time and knew the shooter was dead.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:01 AM

38. sorry but i feel no sorrow for

 

that brother....absolutely no sorrow...there are parents and victims of that tragedy that have their living quarters empty of their love one and little babies that they will never see on earth again....they are dealing with real sorrow and pain and funeral arrangements...I don't really care about ryan....

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Response to ceeRoy (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:06 AM

41. He is a VICTIM -- just wow

All the posters with this attitude should be ashamed of themselves. He lost his mother, his family has been destroyed.

This attitude is SHAMEFUL and it's shocking so many posters are expressing it.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:32 PM

72. +1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely

 

needed saying.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:24 PM

85. I think posters are in some fog of anger right now

Many are not thinking clearly.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:44 PM

133. This post has helped me understand it better.

I think you are right. Maybe it is some form of misplaced anger. The one who killed all those people is dead. So, his family will probably receive a lot of misplaced aggression and anger, unfortunately.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:43 PM

114. I have to agree with you

The ID, whatever kind it was... does anyone know for certain that it was a driver's license? And how can you not have any compassion for this victim? I wonder how you would feel if you were him. It's easy to postulate from your armchair...

Ever been in a perp walk? And ho do you know that they even told him what had happened before they cuffed him?

I think that after the erroneous reports naming him as the perp, I think it was his FB or Twitter acct was bombarded by angry posts and he shut it down... seems I recall seeing that early in the day. But even then he may not have known that it was his family that was involved. Maybe he hadn't been in contact with his mother in a while too.

Even so, how can anyone call it okay for him to be perp walked on TeeVee when he was at least an hour away from the scene at the time of the incident? If anything, the police were desperate to get someone in cuffs just to calm the flames of anger in the public domain... aka, lynch mob atmosphere rising. So he was the visual scapegoat. Sad.

That's just so callous for anyone to say it was okay the way that part went down.

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Response to ceeRoy (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:54 AM

51. He lost his mother and his brother

 

He's a victim too.

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Response to ceeRoy (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:49 PM

102. He's a victim in this too.

Dear God...he was an innocent treated as a killer or accomplice to a mass murder.

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Response to ceeRoy (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:17 AM

127. He lost his brother and his mother

And it wasn't his doing.

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Response to ceeRoy (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:47 PM

134. I would imagine his mother will be needing funeral arrangements

and that he is dealing with real sorrow and pain too. He lost his mother, you know?

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:16 AM

44. Funeral Arrangements Are Being Made For Twenty Dead Childen.


And you're whimpering over the plight of the killer's brother, in connection with law enforcement personnel following established procedures? Losing sleep over that, are you? Jesus H. Christ.....

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:53 AM

50. Compassionate people can feel compassion for ALL teh victims

The brother did not need to be perp walked. He is a victim of this horrible thing as much as any of oether family members.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:59 AM

54. compassionate people can prioritize

too

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:27 AM

61. There people aren't worth arguing with. Most normal people understand that having your face

plastered all over the news as the killer, even though you're in a different state, than being arrested, handcuffed, perp walked, basically accused of killing a bunch of kids, only to discover your whole family is dead, and your brother was the killer "sucks."

They understand how the fact that this "sucks" may not be the biggest tragedy of the day or even a tragedy (though he did lose his whole family). Most people are capable of this type of rational, human thought. Some people aren't. And they are not worth trying to convince of anything.

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Response to Puregonzo1188 (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:54 PM

94. Agreed.

I have seen a lot of poster lashing out at other DUers who are agreeing with them since this happened. It really is like a fog of anger. There really has been a lot of misplaced aggression happening on DU the last couple of days now.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:36 PM

75. +1 - n/t

 

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:55 PM

77. If it's even remotely possible for you to do so, put yourself in that man's....

....place yesterday and try to imagine how it felt to be led away in cuffs for a horrible crime committed by your brother while still pics were being shot and TV cameras were rolling. Just my opinion, but it was a classic case of cuffing first and asking basic questions later.

Add to the public humiliation of being led away in cuffs the pain he must have felt when he learned that his mother had also been murdered.

Your lack of basic human compassion is duly noted.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:50 PM

93. I feel sorry for him, but not because the police took him in

I feel sorry for him because he lost 2 members of his family, was incorrectly identified by the media as the shooter, and media outlets gave out his address, which makes me worry for his safety.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:00 AM

55. I thought so too.

According to the screen shots I saw of him denying any involvement, he looked as horrified as the rest of us by what happened. Just think, he got off work and learned his mother was dead, killed by his brother who was also dead, and he was handcuffed and carted off to the police station. Geez, all a person wants to do when they get home from work is rest some. Now, his life has been pretty much destroyed by all the negative publicity and it was made worse after the fact because he got handcuffed and hauled off to the police station.

I sort of feel for the guy. All indications are that he was not involved in any way.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:09 AM

59. Is this the same guy who was on Facebook saying "It wasn't me"?

Is this how he found out about his family's involvement?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #59)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:09 PM

86. Yes, it is.

He was on the bus on the way home from work, according to the Facebook screen shot. That is how he found out the media was posting his pictures and saying he was the shooter. Then, he was dragged away in handcuffs and the media used that footage until finally they started going back and correcting their horrible mistake.

I really do feel for the guy, to be honest. All indications are that he found out his mother was killed, his brother did it, and that his brother killed a bunch of innocent children (and the adults who were killed too) on a bus ride home from work. Can you imagine being in that situation?

I would hate to be in his shoes right about now. He will never be allowed to properly grieve the loss of his mother because of how the media pretty much put his face everywhere. A lot of people are going to have animosity toward him simply because it was his brother, when in reality, he was a victim too in all this.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:18 AM

60. was he his brother's keeper? Maybe Huckabee can shed some light on the issue

You are right, it sucks.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:30 PM

69. +1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely

 

needed saying, although you will clearly make some enemies by so saying.

Here's my take on our big, brave law enforcement folk: www.democraticunderground.com/10021981503

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:30 PM

91. Just read this thread.

You have hit the nail on the head. Watching the coverage yesterday, the unbelievable show
of force was so foreign. All of it arrived after the carnage was done. For all the tank like vehicles,
body armor, guns, dogs none of it could possibly changed what happened. Yet, a healthcare
professional working with this disturbed killer might have been able to warn authorities or
make some difference in his mental state.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:34 PM

73. +1

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:34 PM

74. He'll get over it (THE PERP WALK)

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:25 PM - Edit history (1)

The dead kids and their families?

Not so much.

RL

I added the perp walk part for you who think THAT is the issue here.

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:47 PM

76. Wow, of all the insensitive posts I've seen on this thread, this one

 

takes the cake. Are you Bill Frist that you have such an extraordinary power to make remote psychological diagnoses like this????

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #76)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:24 PM

84. Really, the PERP WALK is what he'll have problems with?

Not his family dying?

Yeah, let's post more about the perp walk, and not the dead people.

RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:01 PM

96. Perp walking him added to his misery

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Reply #96)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:17 PM

109. "it sucks that innocent brother was handcuffed and perp walked by cops"

The entire OP.

Except for being in a different city, however that matters...



RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:04 PM

97. You don't even have the decency to apologize for your

 

original (now edited) statement. It's still as offensive as all get out and you're one sorry excuse for a human being.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #97)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:23 PM

111. Decency? You might want to go reread a little.

"You're one sorry excuse for a human being"

Ow, hurts so much, those personal attacks...



RL

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #76)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:26 PM

112. Yes, I am Bill Frist!

You've found me out!

I am a retired republican Senator from Tennessee!

Damn, you are good!

Fucking amazing skillz!



RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:14 PM

82. His mother was murdered yesterday, His brother killed himself and the family name is forever linked

to the brutal murder of 20 children.

Come on Retro.

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Response to underpants (Reply #82)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:22 PM

83. He'll get over THE PERP WALK

It was pretty obvious that was what I was referring to.

RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:24 PM

89. Blame the media for that part of it.

Media is always in such a rush to report, that they neglect to find out what's what before they point cameras & microphones.

Probably more than a few of them (media) assumed that the brother was "the man seen running away"... (running away is actually a logical response, if not necessarily a "heroic" one)..

Reporters running around vomiting non-information/false information is inextricably linked to every one of these events every time we are shown them.

The only way this brother will be able to escape being "the guy whose bother murdered all those kids" would be to change his name and move away where no one knows his history.

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #89)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:07 AM

123. This!!

I feel much compassion for Ryan and his mom! Ryan lost a brother and a mother.

However, his ID was on the shooter. At that time, they had not identified the shooter, only that he was dead in the school. There were reports of someone running into the woods immediately after the gun fire. There was a vehicle with NJ tags in the parking lot (not official yet but if so, that is a major factor). I understand why the police did their jobs. They did not know at that point that Ryan wasn't involved.

I feel for every single victim of this, including Ryan.

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #74)


Response to RetroLounge (Reply #74)


Response to backscatter712 (Reply #108)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:19 PM

110. Awful lot of people had reading problems

Welcome to DU



RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:52 AM

120. Will he "get over" the murder of his mother?

He is a victim as much as any of the other family members are.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #120)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:17 AM

126. Christ, can no one read?

The OP was about his PERP WALK.

My whole fucking point was he;d get over the PERP WALK, and compared to having his family murdered, the PERP WALK is the least of the issues to start an OP about.



RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #126)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:17 AM

144. I understood exactly what you meant and

I can't believe the amount of shit you took for it. Reading comprehension is sometimes absent around here.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #144)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:44 AM

147. THank you

RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:54 AM

121. He also lost his mom and brother in addition to having his name ruined. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #121)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:17 AM

128. No Shit????

I hadn't heard.



RL

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:45 PM

99. Exactly. He was incorrectly identified in the whole of the incident and victimized. n/t

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:31 PM

113. Absolutely. That is just wrong.

...

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:52 AM

129. I don't think we've been told the whole story about that.

Relatives don't get perp walked unless something else is going on.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:16 PM

137. I remember early reports saying there could have been a 2nd shooter

'at large' and am not surprised law enforcement did what they did.

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Response to Rex (Reply #137)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:55 PM

139. but they located him at work in another city. Clearly he wasn't this "other shooter"

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Reply #139)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:49 PM

140. Were the cities close to each other?

.

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Response to Rex (Reply #140)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:08 AM

141. Not really. Hoboken is a 90 minute drive from Fairfield County on a good day.

A "good day" for traffic in the NY metro area being a theoretical possibility that has never occurred.

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Response to name not needed (Reply #141)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:13 AM

148. Thanks, then their behavior does seem strange.

If it was the next town over, I could see it.

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