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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:19 PM

Info needed on the Bushmaster .223 - yes I researched & no this is not pro or anti

Does the Bushmaster .223 fire what I know as "22 rounds"?

Also the AR-15 that is different than the Bushmaster .223, right? the AR-15 fires 5.56 mm, right?

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Reply Info needed on the Bushmaster .223 - yes I researched & no this is not pro or anti (Original post)
underpants Dec 2012 OP
COLGATE4 Dec 2012 #1
underpants Dec 2012 #7
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #11
NightWatcher Dec 2012 #2
bananas Dec 2012 #12
Barack_America Dec 2012 #15
oldhippie Dec 2012 #16
Barack_America Dec 2012 #20
FarCenter Dec 2012 #17
Brother Buzz Dec 2012 #3
dionysus Dec 2012 #4
NickB79 Dec 2012 #5
underpants Dec 2012 #6
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #8
2on2u Dec 2012 #9
oldhippie Dec 2012 #18
FarCenter Dec 2012 #19
sarisataka Dec 2012 #10
1-Old-Man Dec 2012 #13
FarCenter Dec 2012 #14

Response to underpants (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:24 PM

1. No. The .22 round is the smallest generally available

round used for target shooting, plinking and some small animal (varmint) control. The .223 is a military round with a great deal more punching power. The Bushmaster is essentially a copy of the AR-15, at least cosmetically.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:42 PM

7. Right that is what I know of the "22 round"

it is for squirrels and such. I read below (man is DU a great resource or what?) that they are the same round but the NATO round has 3 times the gunpowder and speed.

Thanks COLGATE.

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Response to underpants (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:11 PM

11. Actually they are not the same round

as the pictures below illustrate.

There is much more than caliber in the differences.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:25 PM

2. here ya go



the 22 is on the far right and tiny compared to the 5.56 which is similar to the .223


The Bushmaster is what's known as an AR15 variant, which means that it's a civilian version of the same gun. My Bushmaster shoots .223 and is very similar to the Colt AR 15 I was trained on.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:19 AM

12. Thanks for that photo - makes the difference very obvious. nt

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:58 AM

15. I see only one bullet that belongs outside a shooting range.

Time to go after the ammo.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:39 AM

16. Which one? The .22LR?

 

The 5.56 NATO, is very similar to the .223 Remington, which is probably the most popular varmint cartridge in the US. It is chambered in tens if not hundreds of thousands of bolt action and single shot rifles all over the world. The .308 Winchester is one of the most popular deer hunting cartridges in the US, right up there with the 30-06 and the 30-30, depending on where you live.

The 300 Winchester Magnum is very popular for larger North American game at longer ranges. Elk, mountain sheep, dangerous bears, etc. Many, many big game rifles chambered in this cartridge. I'm not aware of any sporting semi-auto rifles in this cartridge, but they may exist.

Now, you may not like the idea of hunting, but to say that these very popular hunting cartridges do not belong outside a shooting range displays a great deal of ignorance.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:09 PM

20. I meant to say "freely". And yes, the .22LR.

We've got to start regulating sales of the others to various extents. No internet sales. Face-to-face transactions with a log of who is buying how much of what. Limits on purchases.

Want to play with the fun stuff without the hassle? Buy it at the range and shoot it there.

That's the way I see it.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:42 AM

17. The .308 and .300 Win Mag are typical hunting rounds

The .308 is suitable for non-dangerous big game such as deer, black bear, antelope, etc.

The .300 Win Mag is suitable for moose, grizzly bear, lion, etc. although a larger caliber like .358 Win Mag would be better for the largest game, such as Cape Buffalo.

The 5.56 started life as a variant of the .222 Remington which was developed for shooting small animals at long range, e.g. woodchucks, prarie dogs and the like.

The 7.62 is the Russian ammunition for the AK-47. Although the US and other militaries used to use 7.62 mm ammunition, such as the .30-06 Springfield (.30 caliber developed in 1906 at the Springfield, MA arsenal), the weight and recoil of such ammunition limited the number of rounds that a soldier could carry and the accuracy of fully automatic or burst fire. This was seen as important in firefights in jungle or urban settings where a high rate of fire and short distances are the norm. In settings like Afghanistan, there has been some reintroduction of .30 and higher caliber weapons, particularly for long range sniping and for use against body armored personnel and lightly armored vehicles.

The .50 BMG is the .50 Browning Machine Gun round used in heavy machine guns.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:26 PM

3. Nominally .001 inch larger in diameter as I understand it

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:27 PM

4. i looked it up and i think 5.56mm converts to .223 caliber

english vs metrics.

and the main difference between a "22 round" and a .223 round is a shitload of gunpowder;

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:33 PM

5. Alright, here goes

The Bushmaster fires the .223 Remington round, which is for all purposes the same thing as the 5.56mm NATO round. The 5.56mm round is loaded to a slightly higher pressure, but they are frequently used interchangeably. For all intents and purposes they're the same thing and everyone who shoots these rifles uses either cartridge in the same gun.

When you say "22 round" you might be thinking of the .22LR, a very small cartridge that is used for squirrel and rabbit hunting and target practice. The .22LR, while firing a bullet almost the same size as the .233/5.56mm, fires that bullet at 1/3 the speed, making it much less powerful.

Finally, the Bushmaster is an AR-15. There is no one "AR-15" rifle; rather any gun using the same design first created by it's inventor, a Mr. Stoner back in the 1960's, is called an AR-15. The Bushmaster designation is just the brand name of the company that makes this particular gun. Coke and Pepsi are different brands, but both are classified as cola drinks.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:39 PM

6. Thank you good info

it is the NATO round that we had in our M-16's. I just wasn't sure.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:47 PM

8. .223 caliber rounds are what's used by the military.

The bullet itself is long and skinny. Behind it is a moderately large cartridge shell that tapers outwards, that holds a decent-sized charge of gunpowder.

Compare this with a .22LR, which has a shorter bullet, about the same diameter, but with a much smaller cartridge shell and powder charge.

Don't get me wrong - a .22LR can certainly kill, but it's a relatively weak type of ammunition.

The .223 (what the killer used) is quite a bit more powerful - that big cartridge and powder charge can send that bullet at a very high speed. High speed = long range and high kinetic energy, so those rounds can do a lot of damage when they go through people.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:50 PM

9. Used to have a .22 mag revolver.... got rid of it, kick myself over it now and then... it

 

was a fine piece made by Ruger, two cylinders, one LR and one Mag.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:52 AM

18. Good info, but might also point out that ....

 

... while the 5.56/.223 round is much more "powerful" than a .22LR, it is still considered a "mid-range" power in comparison to traditional military rounds. The 30-40 Krag, 30-06 and .308 (7.62 NATO) that the US and other major armies have used over the last 100+ years, and are considered "full power" battle rifle cartridges, are much more powerful in terms of delivered energy and lethality. (Though I'll probably get some static on that point if we get into practical terminal ballistics.)

Granted, the 5.56/.223 cartridge is obviously powerful enough to kill humans, but it is considered by most states not powerful enough to be used to humanely hunt deer sized game.

And so very sadly, multiple rounds of just about any cartridge at close range are lethal to little children.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:15 AM

19. The High Standard HD in .22 rimfire was militarized for use by OSS during WW II



IIRC, the High Standard automatics will cycle properly with .22 Short. These are subsonic and therefore do not produce the shock wave "crack" that cannot be silenced. Therefore, this is just the weapon needed to kill quietly with accurate head shots from a few feet away.

Props used in spy movies often resemble this or similar low caliber weapons.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:57 PM

10. The AR-15

is a generic designation for any rifle based on the M-16's operating system, less the full auto option.

The .223 Remington is identical to the 5.56mm round. There are many variations on the actual bullets some optimized for target shooting, some for pests, some with light armor piercing capability some for hunting and others that will do bits of all of those.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:24 AM

13. .223 is, in the generic sense, "22 caliber"

Bullets are defined by their diameter, if you round .223 down you get .22, or twenty-two-caliber. The Bushmaster is a model of rifle, it is probably produced in several calipers, just as any one of a couple of different engines or transmissions might be put in your car without changing its model name. The AR-15 is produced in .223 caliber (which when converted to metric measurement equals 5.56MM) a caliber that was adopted by the US during the war against Viet Nam when they started issuing M-16 rifles. It is a much smaller round than its predecessor (M-14 with .308 caliber).

The standard .22 that you are probably thinking of is a bullet with a very small case, so it holds little gun powder and in the end the power of a bullet is very much a function of the size of the case that holds the powder. The .223 case holds many times the amount of powder that a .22 in any of its several versions (.22 short, .22 long, and even a thing called a .22 magnum).

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:54 AM

14. Wiki is nicely organized by caliber in millimeters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_mm_caliber lists ammunition types between 5 mm and 6 mm in bullet diameter.

Colloquially, a "22" would usually refer to one of the .22 caliber rimfire types - usually .22 Short, .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle.

The Bushmaster .223 uses the .223 Remington listed near the bottom with its military counterpart the 5.56 mm NATO.

You can follow the links to see a description of each type of cartridge including bullet types, velocity, energy, etc.

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