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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:14 PM

My solution without infringing on gun owners rights

If a person commits a crime with a weapon and it turns out that person had any reason not to be qualified to own the weapon, the person who sold them the weapon will be charged with the crime and be held to the same punishment.
We need rules and regs that qualify individuals. We need to be able to confiscate weapons from people who have stepped over established rules, such as having a restraining order issued against them, and we should hold the people who profit from the sales accountable.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply My solution without infringing on gun owners rights (Original post)
randr Dec 2012 OP
NightWatcher Dec 2012 #1
loyalsister Dec 2012 #2
doc03 Dec 2012 #4
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #11
doc03 Dec 2012 #13
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #15
doc03 Dec 2012 #16
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #17
Gold Rush Dec 2012 #14
loyalsister Dec 2012 #20
doc03 Dec 2012 #3
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #5
mainstreetonce Dec 2012 #6
Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #7
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #8
randr Dec 2012 #9
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #10
Cleita Dec 2012 #12
jillan Dec 2012 #18
rgbecker Dec 2012 #19

Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:15 PM

1. all sales arent regulated, nor tracked in paperwork

tracking to see who has what gun might be a better start

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:17 PM

2. Exactly

We are stuck with this we really need to focus on SAFETY. It's hard for even the NRA to argue against strengthening some kind of safety measures.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:20 PM

4. Safety? If it has anything to do with guns the NRA will

argue against it unless it is more guns..

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Response to doc03 (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:17 PM

11. Have an example of that?

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:24 PM

13. I remember after Oklahoma City they tried to put

markers in explosives so they could be traced, the NRA opposed it. I think Wayne LaPiere called the FBI Jack booted thugs when GHWB suggested some kind of gun laws. GHWB actually dropped his lifetime membership in the NRA.

on edit: Give me an example where the NRA has recommended any kind of sensible laws to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:24 PM

15. Tracking material in explosives predated Oak City

There are two kind of taggants, those to aid in detection and those for post event analysis. The former is in place and has been for some time for explosives. The latter has been shown to have no value. The real issue is environmental saturation. Few realize just how much of the building material has explosives used in production. Also several studies have shown that black powder and smokeless powder have negligible use in bombs. I think only the Swiss even have them in explosives. Nobody is using them in firearms ammunition. NRA did oppose them in ammunition for cost and potential safety risks.

I believe the NRA supported some of the NFA, GCA of 1968, and open NCICs checks for private transactions.

The reality is that while everyone is dog piling on the NRA, they are ignoring that 4 million members and much fewer who contribute to the political side (they are different whether some acknowledge it or not) can not and do not have that much influence directly. There is much broader support for private firearms in this country, especially in rural areas and flyover country than many want to acknowledge.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:11 PM

16. I distinctly remember after Oklahoma City they wanted to put taggets in

explosives, in that case it was fertilizer and the NRA was dead set against it. They always have some lame excuse, nobody uses black powder for bombs, taggets could damage barrels or it could be unsafe. The FBI can't even have access to firearms sales records to search for terrorists because the NRA is opposed to it. They would rather protect a terrorist than bend an inch. Fuck the NRA they are nothing but an arm of the Republican party.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:25 PM

17. I found the NRA press release via Google

Per it, they took no position except on black powder and smokeless powder.

There is a massive government study on impacts, costs, and effectiveness. It can be found on Google. A guy I knew from SAIC worked on it...a dry read.

No one is doing post event taggants except the Swiss and not always even for then. Somehow I think the EU would go with it if they thought it was useful no matte what the NRA thought.

I am not so sure about the records access for LEOs...I have certainly saw them accessed heavily, but they are limited in content.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:31 PM

14. Here ya go

 

They opposed the removal of lead from bullets (the lead was damaging wetlands when hunters missed) because this was am "unjust regulation of our gun rights." I guess asking for bullets to be environmentally friendly is one step away from slavery and patriotic americans being sent to the camps.


http://summitcountyvoice.com/2012/08/15/nra-opposing-efforts-to-regulate-lead-hunting-ammo/

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Response to doc03 (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:38 PM

20. You're right about that

Wishful thinking on my part. It doesn't even take NRA propaganda to create an extremist.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:18 PM

3. Trouble is any Joe Blow can sell a gun without a license,

any record of the sale, the serial number of the gun or who they sell it to..

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:22 PM

5. We need biometric guns that can only be activated by fingerprints. nt

 

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:23 PM

6. I have said this since Columbine

The girl who bought the guns should have been charged with being an accessory to each murder.

The Harris parents who allowed weapons to be built in their garage should have been charged as accessories.

There are many cases where a child commits a crime with a parent's gun. The parents should face serious charges with long jail terms.

It is time to get tough.
We are tough on the bartender who pours a drink for someone who later gets a DUI . Get tough with gun enablers.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:27 PM

7. What about millions of parents who wonder if that call during works hours is the police...

telling them their children are dead?

What about the millions of children who hear about this and wonder if it can happens to them.

What about the families that must sit down at a table and talk to their kids about what done do when some crazy asshole walks into their school with a gun and starts shooting.

Registration of all guns is not infringing on gun owners rights.

Prohibiting people being treated for mental illness from having access to their guns or anyone else's isn't infringing on gun owners rights.

Twenty children and six adults, (including the shooter) had all their rights taken away by guns, permanently. Millions of parents and children in a society that has more concern for a gun owner's right to own and transfer his weapons without interference by regulation are not living in a free society.

The second amendment is not supposed to trump 1 and 3 through 27.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:29 PM

8. Also, if anyone owns a gun and doesn't secure it, and it then is used in a crime by another person,

the gun owner is subject to equal punishment.

Maybe it would scare people out of owning guns in the first place, but I would be content with it scaring them into properly securing their toys.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:33 PM

9. My feeling right now is to enact laws that severly punish

those people many of you have identified as complicit. Hang a few of them a watch how fast we get regulations on sales.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:36 PM

10. Yes, if they failed to meet a legally established standard of care.

 

I've said essentially this for years. But there must be standards, not simply the fact that someone was deceived.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:21 PM

12. I don't think sales clerks are qualified to make that kind of judgement.

It was like when I was a bartender I was liable if I served someone who was drunk and subject to a very hefty fine. Sometimes you just can't tell and without being able to administer a breathalyzer or blood test, you are liable even when you felt you had made a reasonable judgement. So the end result is that I sometimes refused service to people who were probably functional because I had to make a decision that wasn't always accurate.

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Response to randr (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:27 PM

18. They sell guns on ebay. It would be hard to track them down.

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Response to jillan (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:14 AM

19. Actually Ebay doesn't allow the sale of firearms on the site.

Paintguns and "Airsoft" air guns but no gun powder powered weapons. Craig's list?...maybe.

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