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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:41 PM

"A well regulated militia"

Gun people. I don't know the answer but if the right to bear arms is absolute then why was the clause " a well regulated militia" put in the second amendment?

36 replies, 2244 views

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply "A well regulated militia" (Original post)
wilt the stilt Dec 2012 OP
joeybee12 Dec 2012 #1
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #13
msongs Dec 2012 #2
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #5
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #30
tblue Dec 2012 #3
valerief Dec 2012 #4
doc03 Dec 2012 #6
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #16
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #7
truebluegreen Dec 2012 #20
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #22
oneshooter Dec 2012 #23
elleng Dec 2012 #8
mzmolly Dec 2012 #9
progressoid Dec 2012 #10
mzmolly Dec 2012 #11
and-justice-for-all Dec 2012 #29
mzmolly Dec 2012 #31
bongbong Dec 2012 #12
petronius Dec 2012 #14
tabasco Dec 2012 #15
TrogL Dec 2012 #17
rrneck Dec 2012 #18
davidn3600 Dec 2012 #19
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #26
DainBramaged Dec 2012 #21
Kablooie Dec 2012 #24
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #25
duffyduff Dec 2012 #27
hack89 Dec 2012 #32
and-justice-for-all Dec 2012 #28
hack89 Dec 2012 #33
and-justice-for-all Dec 2012 #35
hack89 Dec 2012 #36
spanone Dec 2012 #34

Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:42 PM

1. Don't expect a coherent answer from the gun nuts...

It was put in there because it was specifically written to have relevance in colonial times...it no longer has relevance...

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:13 PM

13. ^^^ This^^^

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:42 PM

2. many gun owners pretend those words are not in the 2A nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:44 PM

5. Most pretend they ARE a "well-regulated militia"

They own guns, right? And there are gun regulations, right? SEE?!?!?!?!

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:33 PM

30. Yeah. They are "well regulated" until they go crazy and kill someone.

FUCKING NRA nuts.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:43 PM

3. Yeah, I'd like to know, too.

Anytime you want to explain.... Just lemme know. I don't think they said "WELL REGULATED" for no reason. But I'm all ears.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:43 PM

4. In Teamerica today, "a well-regulated militia" means "any clown with a semi-automatic." nt

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:48 PM

6. Listening to a local call in program this afternoon, the gun

nuts have a solution for all this we arm everyone in the school. We need more guns everyone should be packing heat hell give the kids guns..

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Response to doc03 (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:21 PM

16. That seems to be the argument

.... if every five year old was armed to the teeth ... this never would have happened (only a slight exagerations).... yeah right, idiots

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:56 PM

7. Unfortunately, there are two different meanings of that phrase from that time.

1. Controlled by the government.
2. Well stocked.

Obviously, people are likely to latch onto the meaning they feel best represents their own political views on the subject.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:28 PM

20. Really.

Well-regulated=well-stocked?

In what universe? As for "controlled by the government" (horrors!) the government at the time did not have a standing army and in fact feared such. The militia was there for low-level conflicts and frontier skirmishes, and an army could be called up if needed.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:01 PM

22. Oh shit, I made a mistake. I should have said working well.

http://constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:


1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."


1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."


1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."


1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."


1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."


1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:04 PM

23. In that time period the whole of the militia

WAS the Army. The militia was formed for local defence, but could be called up by the states to form the Army.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:01 PM

8. The right to bear arms is NOT absolute.

Reasonable regulation IS permitted.

The McDonald decision (http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf) extended the court's 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller that "the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes, most notably for self-defense within the home." That decision applied only to federal laws and federal enclaves such as Washington; it was the first time the court had said there was an individual right to gun ownership rather than one related to military service.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:03 PM

9. They say they're part of a citizens militia

which is at the ready for battle against the US government, should the US government get "out of hand".

I kid you not. I've had recent "discussions" to this effect.

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Response to mzmolly (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:07 PM

10. Yup. They think Red Dawn is a documentary.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:09 PM

11. LOL. That and they can

take out a drone, apparently.

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Response to mzmolly (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:30 PM

29. militia = death squads.

"ready for battle against the US government, should the US government get "out of hand". which IS NOT at all what the amendment was for.

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Response to and-justice-for-all (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 03:49 PM

31. I agree with

you. I'm just reporting the nonsense I've come across of late.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:12 PM

12. Discussed in the Federalist Papers

 

F.P. #29 goes into detail what "well-regulated" means. In short, "trained like an army is trained". F.P. #29 also discusses the havoc that would ensue if widespread gun ownership happened without training.

Kinda prophetic, those Founding Fathers.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:13 PM

14. I have always understood it to be that: 1) a militia is essential, 2) a competent and

armed citizenry is a necessary precondition to that militia, so 3) the existing right to arms shouldn't be infringed.

It doesn't follow that active militia membership is a requirement to exercise that right, nor does it follow that the right is absolute: as with the rest of the BoR, there is a whole range of permissible regulation before 'infringement' in the Constitutional sense kicks in...

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:17 PM

15. So all the coward wannabe Rambos of the world can have a military rifle

and fantasize about being in the Green Berets.

I'm sure that's what the drafters of the Constitution intended.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:24 PM

17. I've always understood it to mean something like this

In Canada we have a volunteer Armed Forces. There is a strong Cadet and militia/Reserve program. Anybody can join as long as you're fit enough to take part. I was in a militia program for a summer and decided it wasn't for me, but I had a blast doing it.

We were issued a firearm and live ammunition when we went to the range (about twice a week). The rest of the time, we drilled with it and when the program was finished, I had to give it back for the person to use.

I have no idea where they went from something like that to everybody's allowed to carry them openly.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:26 PM

18. A militia is an organization of people

You can't have a militia without people. The second amendment specifies the regulation of militias and that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So you can regulate a militia when all the people who already own and bear arms show up with them.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:27 PM

19. The well regulated militias are made up of people who have the right to bear arms

That's what the Supreme Court interprets as the amendment's intent.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:24 PM

26. Well that militia isn't very well regulated when a member goes on a tear and kills 20 babies.

 

Now is it?

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:32 PM

21. A well regurgitated militia

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:22 PM

24. Synonymous with "unregulated maniac". That's what they think it means.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:23 PM

25. the problem is, the NRA has the politicians so cowtowed they refuse to regulate even a little

 

let alone "well".

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:26 PM

27. There never was an individual's right to bear arms

That has always been a lie perpetrated by the NRA. Unfortunately, the Roberts court literally made shit up about the Second Amendment a couple of years ago.

Hardly a peep in the world against the Roberts court jettisoning decades of case law and precedent. But that's what it did.

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Response to duffyduff (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:00 PM

32. The entire Bill of Rights are individual rights

it was added to ensure that certain rights were specifically protected from the government.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

28. Its ran its course...

and there is no sense at all for "A well regulated militia". It is a bygone mentality and it is not fit for the 21st century.

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Response to and-justice-for-all (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:01 PM

33. So amend the Constitution

that is the only real path you have.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:37 PM

35. No..

not immediately, but something has to change, and if anyone finds that such actions are acceptable because of they want to maintain an outdated right then those who choice otherwise have the right to be protected from that outdated right.

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Response to and-justice-for-all (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:45 PM

36. You don't have too many legal options

as it stands right now the right to bear arms is an individual right - see the Heller and McDonald cases if you are not clear on the actual law.

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Response to wilt the stilt (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:02 PM

34. shhh, the nra will declare itself a well regulated militia

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