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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:02 PM

A simple fact: The current Congress (and the one elected in Nov.) will not pass gun control

The GOP controls the House, and there are enough Democratic Senators representing red states that such legislation may not even get a majority vote in the Senate.

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Reply A simple fact: The current Congress (and the one elected in Nov.) will not pass gun control (Original post)
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 OP
upaloopa Dec 2012 #1
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #2
upaloopa Dec 2012 #6
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #13
Codeine Dec 2012 #18
CreekDog Dec 2012 #14
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #22
DanTex Dec 2012 #23
lapfog_1 Dec 2012 #31
CreekDog Dec 2012 #33
CreekDog Dec 2012 #27
Dalai_1 Dec 2012 #3
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #4
lapfog_1 Dec 2012 #32
yellerpup Dec 2012 #5
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #7
Dalai_1 Dec 2012 #8
hack89 Dec 2012 #10
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #12
yellerpup Dec 2012 #45
spin Jan 2013 #52
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #21
yellerpup Dec 2012 #43
hack89 Dec 2012 #9
marions ghost Dec 2012 #11
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #15
marions ghost Dec 2012 #16
CreekDog Dec 2012 #34
musiclawyer Dec 2012 #17
smirkymonkey Dec 2012 #19
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #20
malaise Dec 2012 #24
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #25
reformist2 Dec 2012 #26
Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #28
DanTex Dec 2012 #29
katmondoo Dec 2012 #30
myrna minx Dec 2012 #35
Pholus Dec 2012 #36
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #38
Pholus Dec 2012 #40
Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #42
Pholus Dec 2012 #44
CreekDog Dec 2012 #46
DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #47
Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #48
lunatica Dec 2012 #37
Bucky Dec 2012 #39
Robb Dec 2012 #41
Freddie Stubbs Jan 2013 #49
Robb Jan 2013 #50
Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #53
xxxsdesdexxx Jan 2013 #51

Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:05 PM

1. Well maybe your hold on them isn't as strong as you think

There are people who put what's right before their ambitions.
Who's afraid of the big bad NRA,NRA,NRA?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:08 PM

2. Do you really believe that the GOP majority would allow such a vote in the House?

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:22 PM

6. I'm seeing more and more cracks in their wall

everyday.
I know you think this is bull shit but I know this too. There is such a thing as the law of attraction. When enough people want gun control things will move to make it happen. Today's killing of children has made a lot of people want gun restrictions. The momentum is building with each new gun tragedy. And the more guns there are the more gun tragedy there will be.
The return of gun control is inevitable and increased gun ownership is what will make it happen.
Mark my word.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:09 PM

13. What cracks have you seen in the House GOP regarding gun control?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:42 PM

18. I really don't think it has made more people want gun control

so much as embolden those who already felt that way. It's one of those things that I don't think many people really change their minds regarding.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:12 PM

14. I know you don't want us to try

so predictable.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:08 AM

22. All it will accomplish is cause Democrats to lose House and Senate elections

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:10 AM

23. Or maybe it wall cause Republicans to lose elections.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:28 AM

31. If it does... so what?

We have to stand for something... win or lose.

20 dead 1st graders demand that someone make a stand.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:43 AM

33. The important thing on this issue or on gay marriage is you tell us that issues are losers

you tell us to not talk about or support liberal positions because we'll lose elections.

all the while claiming to support these issues, while using DU to tell us to not support what you say you support.



but it's not funny, it never was.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:12 AM

27. the important thing is that you tried to get us to stop talking about it and to give up on it

you tried.

and failed.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:10 PM

3. List of those in Congress who are connected to NRA

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Response to Dalai_1 (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:13 PM

4. Lots of Democrats on that list

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:30 AM

32. Then I'm not giving them money or voting for them anymore. - n/t

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:14 PM

5. Then we should put the lobby down.

They have perverted the meaning of the 2nd amendment and make the USA hell on earth.

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Response to yellerpup (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:42 PM

7. Make it completely socially unacceptable

To be in the NRA.

Unfriend them on Facebook. Don't invite them to dinner. Don't let them into your house.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:46 PM

8. your post made me realize

I personally do not know anyone who is a member of the
NRA or has ever mentioned having a gun..

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:53 PM

10. Very few gun owners are NRA members

four million out of approximately 60 million. The NRA can disappear tomorrow and it won't make that much difference.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:04 PM

12. Don't want to stigmatize gunowners

NRA has influence outsize its numbers. Kill it and a sane debate possible.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:19 AM

45. I'm of two minds on that, SJ.

My inclination is to keep the dialogue open and work to find common ground. We need to turn down the fear and try not to alienate each other further, IMO.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:20 PM

52. Only 4.5 million gun owners belong to the NRA out of 80 million gun owners. ...

The NRA is seen as the boogeyman by the news media and politicians who support strong gun control.

The news media has supported strong gun control for years but despite their efforts gun rights laws such as "shall issue" concealed carry have swept across the nation.

It is only logical that the failure to implement strong control in recent years has embarrassed both politicians who support such legislation and the media. It's hard to admit that your best efforts have failed, so you need some big bad entity to blame. The NRA fits the bill nicely.

There is no doubt that the NRA is a powerful organization but it is revealing that the media with its strong bullhorn has been unable to stop the spread of NRA sponsored legislation such as "shall issue" concealed carry, "stand your ground and "bring your gun to work" across our nation.

It is my opinion that the reason gun control has lost in recent years is that a high percentage of the 80,000,000 gun owners and voting age members of their families show up at the polls to vote against any politician who wishes for stronger gun control.

In some states such as New York or Illinois a politician can proudly support strong gun control and get reelected. That is not always the case in states like Nevada or Montana or even in Texas or Florida. Politicians from these states can put their careers on the line when they support strong gun control such as another assault weapons ban.

It could be argued that an elected official should vote with his own conscience for the good of the nation. However it should be remembered that a politician is elected to represent the views of his constituency. If the majority of the voters who put you in office do not wish to see an assault weapons ban pass, should you vote for it?

Let's examine some political reality. Start with the the Senate of the United States. Each state gets two senators. The Democratic senators from New York, California, Illinois, Hawaii and Massachusetts may strongly support an assault weapons ban but the Democratic senators from states like Louisiana, Alaska, Montana, Tennessee and Alabama may be hesitant to do so. Some Republican senators from states which favor strong gun control may support the assault weapons ban but those from gun friendly states will not. The votes to pass the assault weapons ban in the Senate simply aren't there at this time. The House of Representatives is controlled by Republicans and the chances of the assault weapons ban passing is even lower.

Obama is one of the great charismatic speakers of our time. He also is able to mobilize a strong grass roots support for his vision for the future of our nation. Perhaps if he risks using his bully pulpit to campaign for strong gun control he may be able to force it through the Senate. If he can garner enormous support from the base he MIGHT be able to get a severely watered down version to pass the House but I feel that is unlikely in the next two years. Of course if Obama tries too hard to pass an assault weapons ban and fails it could hurt his chances of passing other legislation in his second term.

It is wise when you bargain to start from with strong demands. There are many ways to improve our existing gun laws that make sense and could easily pass. It makes sense to me to start insisting on another assault weapons ban and then to give up pressing for it in exchange for requiring a background check for all sales of firearms including private transactions. It might be possible to set up a requirement that anyone who does buy a firearm or ammo has to have proof of firearms safety training and/or a comprehensive background check.

Much of the gun violence in our nation is due to drug gangs fighting over turf. Chicago is a prime example. We lost our War on Drugs decades ago and we simply refuse to admit it.

Of course future events may change the gun control equation. A couple more tragic school or theater shootings involving the use of "assault weapons" like the AR-15 might swing the votes necessary to pass the assault weapons ban. It is quite likely that any person planning a massacre will consider obtaining an AR-15 because the media has widely publicized just how effective this weapon is for mass murder. At one time in the recent past the media always mentioned variants of the AK-47 as the most deadly semi-auto firearm but today firearms similar to the AR-15 are the most popular rifles being sold.

Of course you may stongly disagree with what I have posted and you might be right.

Time will tell.








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Response to yellerpup (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:06 AM

21. Perhaps you should read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:13 AM

43. Not sure I get your point.

People have a right to redress grievances. The Government is all of us. We are the ones who are supposed to decide how to protect the common good. Lobbys (and corporations) are not The People.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)


Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:56 PM

11. America will tolerate mass killing after mass killing

and do nothing.

People just don't care enough.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:13 PM

15. Or perhaps people do care, but do not believe that gun control is the solution

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:24 PM

16. Hey....let's try it y'know?

we've never had real gun control, never mind what people do or don't believe about it.

But go ahead, defend guns today. That's the kind of blindness that allows this to happen.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:44 AM

34. you don't even want us to discuss it

just like you poo-poo'd discussion or our leaders supporting same sex marriage.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:38 PM

17. Nothing will happen with a GOP House

Nothing. We knew that. That's why the filibuster change is critical. Let the people see what a Dem Senate can do and contrast with the House

Even with gerrymandering we can take back the house as long as the Senate starts working Let the House be the place where good ideas die the next two years

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:45 PM

19. F**k the GOP

And F**k the NRA and the Gun Lovers in this country. This is out of control. It's disgusting.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:46 PM

20. Don't look now

but, as of 9:30 am E.T. 12/13/12, there's been a sea change in this country. I smell it.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:11 AM

24. They will

Watch and see - this is the last straw

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:11 AM

25. Oh NOES! I guess that means we have to give up forever, then.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:12 AM

26. Umm, let's not give up before we've even tried, okay?

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:13 AM

28. Fail.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:13 AM

29. By that logic, Obama should just give up on everything.

Haven't you heard? The GOP controls that House. They will block everything. Might as well just give up!

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:27 AM

30. Maybe they should look at a picture of 20 dead 6yr olds with multple gun shots

Have them then look at the tiny child shot 11 times.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:47 AM

35. Public pressure works wonders. I think things are different this time.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:49 AM

36. When all 31 pro-gun Senators refuse to go on a public show about guns, they're scared.


The NRA is still silent too. It's scared.

Why not -- Friday effectively took the fig leaf off. You are looking exactly at what 40 years of NRA and gun money have done for this country.

I probably couldn't stand to show my face in public neither.

The house? Yeah, they're nutballs. But nutballs who are in perpetual election mode.

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Response to Pholus (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:10 AM

38. If you think that there are only 31 pro-Second Amendment Senators, you are mistaken

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:11 AM

40. Yet they're silent with their "crisis management teams" feverishly working on talking points.


So I take it you stand in solidarity with the NRA who puts second amendment pressure on politicians then?

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Response to Pholus (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:13 AM

42. I stand in solidarity with those who defend our constitutional rights

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:14 AM

44. What a great non answer.

Expected.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:25 AM

46. it's funny how you clam up when people ask for your opinion



as if you're ashamed of it, or afraid to say what it is.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:28 AM

47. Are you saying you support the NRA? Yes or no.

It's isn't a time to fuck around and be coy. You've been asked if you support this organization responsible for so many deaths, and you're not answering.

Who are you with?

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:34 PM

48. Accusing Democrats who want gun control

as anti-2nd Amendment, in a subtle way of course.

Are you a supporter of the Norquist led NRA?

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:49 AM

37. Yeah, and President Obama was losing too

I've learned never to say never. I'm cynical that way.

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:10 AM

39. Because the shootings didn't happen in Washington.

or at an elite private school

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:12 AM

41. No, they will. It might not help, but they will.

Because the narrative is set: these kids will either have died for nothing, which is unacceptable, or they will have died as martyrs to the cause of gun control.

We're not going to let them "die for nothing." So there will be new legislation. Whether it will help, I don't know.

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Response to Robb (Reply #41)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:25 PM

49. Bloomberg: Assault Weapons Ban Lacks Democratic Votes to Pass Senate

A proposed ban on sales of assault weapons would be defeated in the U.S. Senate today unless some members changed their current views, based on a Bloomberg review of recent lawmaker statements and interviews.

At least six of the 55 senators who caucus with Democrats have recently expressed skepticism or outright opposition to a ban, the review found. That means Democrats wouldn’t have a simple 51-vote majority to pass the measure, let alone the 60 votes needed to break a Republican filibuster to bring it to a floor vote.

more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-25/assault-weapons-ban-lacks-democratic-votes-to-pass-senate.html

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Reply #49)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:35 PM

50. Keep watching.

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Response to Robb (Reply #50)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 07:32 PM

53. I'm watching

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Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:42 PM

51. The actual assault weapons ban is what's going to be hard to pass.

The other parts of it such as requiring background checks for all guns sold/transferred (even for private sales) and the limiting of magazine capacity could pass.

Here are some additional things that should also be considered:

- Require annual registration of all firearms.
- Lost/missing guns must be reported in a timely manner (we can talk about what a timely manner means).
- Require that guns owners show proof of ownership of a gun safe.
- Prevent the open carrying of all guns except in areas that are zoned for hunting.
- Weapons that are being transported from a gun owner's residence to an area zoned for hunting must be concealed, unloaded, and have trigger locks in place.
- Allow citizens to have guns in their own home for protection.
- Increase penalties for those found guilty of illegally importing, transferring, or acquiring guns.

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