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Freddie Stubbs

(29,853 posts)
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:02 PM Dec 2012

A simple fact: The current Congress (and the one elected in Nov.) will not pass gun control

The GOP controls the House, and there are enough Democratic Senators representing red states that such legislation may not even get a majority vote in the Senate.

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A simple fact: The current Congress (and the one elected in Nov.) will not pass gun control (Original Post) Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 OP
Well maybe your hold on them isn't as strong as you think upaloopa Dec 2012 #1
Do you really believe that the GOP majority would allow such a vote in the House? Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #2
I'm seeing more and more cracks in their wall upaloopa Dec 2012 #6
What cracks have you seen in the House GOP regarding gun control? Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #13
I really don't think it has made more people want gun control Codeine Dec 2012 #18
I know you don't want us to try CreekDog Dec 2012 #14
All it will accomplish is cause Democrats to lose House and Senate elections Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #22
Or maybe it wall cause Republicans to lose elections. DanTex Dec 2012 #23
If it does... so what? lapfog_1 Dec 2012 #31
The important thing on this issue or on gay marriage is you tell us that issues are losers CreekDog Dec 2012 #33
the important thing is that you tried to get us to stop talking about it and to give up on it CreekDog Dec 2012 #27
List of those in Congress who are connected to NRA Dalai_1 Dec 2012 #3
Lots of Democrats on that list Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #4
Then I'm not giving them money or voting for them anymore. - n/t lapfog_1 Dec 2012 #32
Then we should put the lobby down. yellerpup Dec 2012 #5
Make it completely socially unacceptable Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #7
your post made me realize Dalai_1 Dec 2012 #8
Very few gun owners are NRA members hack89 Dec 2012 #10
Don't want to stigmatize gunowners Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #12
I'm of two minds on that, SJ. yellerpup Dec 2012 #45
Only 4.5 million gun owners belong to the NRA out of 80 million gun owners. ... spin Jan 2013 #52
Perhaps you should read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution: Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #21
Not sure I get your point. yellerpup Dec 2012 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author hack89 Dec 2012 #9
America will tolerate mass killing after mass killing marions ghost Dec 2012 #11
Or perhaps people do care, but do not believe that gun control is the solution Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #15
Hey....let's try it y'know? marions ghost Dec 2012 #16
you don't even want us to discuss it CreekDog Dec 2012 #34
Nothing will happen with a GOP House musiclawyer Dec 2012 #17
F**k the GOP smirkymonkey Dec 2012 #19
Don't look now Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #20
They will malaise Dec 2012 #24
Oh NOES! I guess that means we have to give up forever, then. MNBrewer Dec 2012 #25
Umm, let's not give up before we've even tried, okay? reformist2 Dec 2012 #26
Fail. Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #28
By that logic, Obama should just give up on everything. DanTex Dec 2012 #29
Maybe they should look at a picture of 20 dead 6yr olds with multple gun shots katmondoo Dec 2012 #30
Public pressure works wonders. I think things are different this time. myrna minx Dec 2012 #35
When all 31 pro-gun Senators refuse to go on a public show about guns, they're scared. Pholus Dec 2012 #36
If you think that there are only 31 pro-Second Amendment Senators, you are mistaken Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #38
Yet they're silent with their "crisis management teams" feverishly working on talking points. Pholus Dec 2012 #40
I stand in solidarity with those who defend our constitutional rights Freddie Stubbs Dec 2012 #42
What a great non answer. Pholus Dec 2012 #44
it's funny how you clam up when people ask for your opinion CreekDog Dec 2012 #46
Are you saying you support the NRA? Yes or no. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #47
Accusing Democrats who want gun control Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #48
Yeah, and President Obama was losing too lunatica Dec 2012 #37
Because the shootings didn't happen in Washington. Bucky Dec 2012 #39
No, they will. It might not help, but they will. Robb Dec 2012 #41
Bloomberg: Assault Weapons Ban Lacks Democratic Votes to Pass Senate Freddie Stubbs Jan 2013 #49
Keep watching. Robb Jan 2013 #50
I'm watching Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #53
The actual assault weapons ban is what's going to be hard to pass. xxxsdesdexxx Jan 2013 #51

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
1. Well maybe your hold on them isn't as strong as you think
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:05 PM
Dec 2012

There are people who put what's right before their ambitions.
Who's afraid of the big bad NRA,NRA,NRA?

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
6. I'm seeing more and more cracks in their wall
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:22 PM
Dec 2012

everyday.
I know you think this is bull shit but I know this too. There is such a thing as the law of attraction. When enough people want gun control things will move to make it happen. Today's killing of children has made a lot of people want gun restrictions. The momentum is building with each new gun tragedy. And the more guns there are the more gun tragedy there will be.
The return of gun control is inevitable and increased gun ownership is what will make it happen.
Mark my word.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
18. I really don't think it has made more people want gun control
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:42 PM
Dec 2012

so much as embolden those who already felt that way. It's one of those things that I don't think many people really change their minds regarding.

lapfog_1

(29,199 posts)
31. If it does... so what?
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:28 AM
Dec 2012

We have to stand for something... win or lose.

20 dead 1st graders demand that someone make a stand.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
33. The important thing on this issue or on gay marriage is you tell us that issues are losers
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:43 AM
Dec 2012

you tell us to not talk about or support liberal positions because we'll lose elections.

all the while claiming to support these issues, while using DU to tell us to not support what you say you support.



but it's not funny, it never was.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
27. the important thing is that you tried to get us to stop talking about it and to give up on it
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:12 AM
Dec 2012

you tried.

and failed.

yellerpup

(12,253 posts)
5. Then we should put the lobby down.
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:14 PM
Dec 2012

They have perverted the meaning of the 2nd amendment and make the USA hell on earth.

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
7. Make it completely socially unacceptable
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:42 PM
Dec 2012

To be in the NRA.

Unfriend them on Facebook. Don't invite them to dinner. Don't let them into your house.

Dalai_1

(1,301 posts)
8. your post made me realize
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:46 PM
Dec 2012

I personally do not know anyone who is a member of the
NRA or has ever mentioned having a gun..

hack89

(39,171 posts)
10. Very few gun owners are NRA members
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:53 PM
Dec 2012

four million out of approximately 60 million. The NRA can disappear tomorrow and it won't make that much difference.

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
12. Don't want to stigmatize gunowners
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:04 PM
Dec 2012

NRA has influence outsize its numbers. Kill it and a sane debate possible.

yellerpup

(12,253 posts)
45. I'm of two minds on that, SJ.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:19 AM
Dec 2012

My inclination is to keep the dialogue open and work to find common ground. We need to turn down the fear and try not to alienate each other further, IMO.

spin

(17,493 posts)
52. Only 4.5 million gun owners belong to the NRA out of 80 million gun owners. ...
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:20 PM
Jan 2013

The NRA is seen as the boogeyman by the news media and politicians who support strong gun control.

The news media has supported strong gun control for years but despite their efforts gun rights laws such as "shall issue" concealed carry have swept across the nation.

It is only logical that the failure to implement strong control in recent years has embarrassed both politicians who support such legislation and the media. It's hard to admit that your best efforts have failed, so you need some big bad entity to blame. The NRA fits the bill nicely.

There is no doubt that the NRA is a powerful organization but it is revealing that the media with its strong bullhorn has been unable to stop the spread of NRA sponsored legislation such as "shall issue" concealed carry, "stand your ground and "bring your gun to work" across our nation.

It is my opinion that the reason gun control has lost in recent years is that a high percentage of the 80,000,000 gun owners and voting age members of their families show up at the polls to vote against any politician who wishes for stronger gun control.

In some states such as New York or Illinois a politician can proudly support strong gun control and get reelected. That is not always the case in states like Nevada or Montana or even in Texas or Florida. Politicians from these states can put their careers on the line when they support strong gun control such as another assault weapons ban.

It could be argued that an elected official should vote with his own conscience for the good of the nation. However it should be remembered that a politician is elected to represent the views of his constituency. If the majority of the voters who put you in office do not wish to see an assault weapons ban pass, should you vote for it?

Let's examine some political reality. Start with the the Senate of the United States. Each state gets two senators. The Democratic senators from New York, California, Illinois, Hawaii and Massachusetts may strongly support an assault weapons ban but the Democratic senators from states like Louisiana, Alaska, Montana, Tennessee and Alabama may be hesitant to do so. Some Republican senators from states which favor strong gun control may support the assault weapons ban but those from gun friendly states will not. The votes to pass the assault weapons ban in the Senate simply aren't there at this time. The House of Representatives is controlled by Republicans and the chances of the assault weapons ban passing is even lower.

Obama is one of the great charismatic speakers of our time. He also is able to mobilize a strong grass roots support for his vision for the future of our nation. Perhaps if he risks using his bully pulpit to campaign for strong gun control he may be able to force it through the Senate. If he can garner enormous support from the base he MIGHT be able to get a severely watered down version to pass the House but I feel that is unlikely in the next two years. Of course if Obama tries too hard to pass an assault weapons ban and fails it could hurt his chances of passing other legislation in his second term.

It is wise when you bargain to start from with strong demands. There are many ways to improve our existing gun laws that make sense and could easily pass. It makes sense to me to start insisting on another assault weapons ban and then to give up pressing for it in exchange for requiring a background check for all sales of firearms including private transactions. It might be possible to set up a requirement that anyone who does buy a firearm or ammo has to have proof of firearms safety training and/or a comprehensive background check.

Much of the gun violence in our nation is due to drug gangs fighting over turf. Chicago is a prime example. We lost our War on Drugs decades ago and we simply refuse to admit it.

Of course future events may change the gun control equation. A couple more tragic school or theater shootings involving the use of "assault weapons" like the AR-15 might swing the votes necessary to pass the assault weapons ban. It is quite likely that any person planning a massacre will consider obtaining an AR-15 because the media has widely publicized just how effective this weapon is for mass murder. At one time in the recent past the media always mentioned variants of the AK-47 as the most deadly semi-auto firearm but today firearms similar to the AR-15 are the most popular rifles being sold.

Of course you may stongly disagree with what I have posted and you might be right.

Time will tell.








Freddie Stubbs

(29,853 posts)
21. Perhaps you should read the 1st Amendment to the Constitution:
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:06 AM
Dec 2012

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

yellerpup

(12,253 posts)
43. Not sure I get your point.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:13 AM
Dec 2012

People have a right to redress grievances. The Government is all of us. We are the ones who are supposed to decide how to protect the common good. Lobbys (and corporations) are not The People.

Response to Freddie Stubbs (Original post)

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
16. Hey....let's try it y'know?
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:24 PM
Dec 2012

we've never had real gun control, never mind what people do or don't believe about it.

But go ahead, defend guns today. That's the kind of blindness that allows this to happen.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
34. you don't even want us to discuss it
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:44 AM
Dec 2012

just like you poo-poo'd discussion or our leaders supporting same sex marriage.

musiclawyer

(2,335 posts)
17. Nothing will happen with a GOP House
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:38 PM
Dec 2012

Nothing. We knew that. That's why the filibuster change is critical. Let the people see what a Dem Senate can do and contrast with the House

Even with gerrymandering we can take back the house as long as the Senate starts working Let the House be the place where good ideas die the next two years

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
19. F**k the GOP
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:45 PM
Dec 2012

And F**k the NRA and the Gun Lovers in this country. This is out of control. It's disgusting.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
29. By that logic, Obama should just give up on everything.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:13 AM
Dec 2012

Haven't you heard? The GOP controls that House. They will block everything. Might as well just give up!

katmondoo

(6,454 posts)
30. Maybe they should look at a picture of 20 dead 6yr olds with multple gun shots
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:27 AM
Dec 2012

Have them then look at the tiny child shot 11 times.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
36. When all 31 pro-gun Senators refuse to go on a public show about guns, they're scared.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:49 AM
Dec 2012

The NRA is still silent too. It's scared.

Why not -- Friday effectively took the fig leaf off. You are looking exactly at what 40 years of NRA and gun money have done for this country.

I probably couldn't stand to show my face in public neither.

The house? Yeah, they're nutballs. But nutballs who are in perpetual election mode.

Pholus

(4,062 posts)
40. Yet they're silent with their "crisis management teams" feverishly working on talking points.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:11 AM
Dec 2012

So I take it you stand in solidarity with the NRA who puts second amendment pressure on politicians then?

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
46. it's funny how you clam up when people ask for your opinion
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:25 AM
Dec 2012


as if you're ashamed of it, or afraid to say what it is.
 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
47. Are you saying you support the NRA? Yes or no.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:28 AM
Dec 2012

It's isn't a time to fuck around and be coy. You've been asked if you support this organization responsible for so many deaths, and you're not answering.

Who are you with?

Kingofalldems

(38,451 posts)
48. Accusing Democrats who want gun control
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:34 PM
Dec 2012

as anti-2nd Amendment, in a subtle way of course.

Are you a supporter of the Norquist led NRA?

Robb

(39,665 posts)
41. No, they will. It might not help, but they will.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:12 AM
Dec 2012

Because the narrative is set: these kids will either have died for nothing, which is unacceptable, or they will have died as martyrs to the cause of gun control.

We're not going to let them "die for nothing." So there will be new legislation. Whether it will help, I don't know.

Freddie Stubbs

(29,853 posts)
49. Bloomberg: Assault Weapons Ban Lacks Democratic Votes to Pass Senate
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:25 PM
Jan 2013

A proposed ban on sales of assault weapons would be defeated in the U.S. Senate today unless some members changed their current views, based on a Bloomberg review of recent lawmaker statements and interviews.

At least six of the 55 senators who caucus with Democrats have recently expressed skepticism or outright opposition to a ban, the review found. That means Democrats wouldn’t have a simple 51-vote majority to pass the measure, let alone the 60 votes needed to break a Republican filibuster to bring it to a floor vote.

more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-25/assault-weapons-ban-lacks-democratic-votes-to-pass-senate.html

xxxsdesdexxx

(213 posts)
51. The actual assault weapons ban is what's going to be hard to pass.
Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:42 PM
Jan 2013

The other parts of it such as requiring background checks for all guns sold/transferred (even for private sales) and the limiting of magazine capacity could pass.

Here are some additional things that should also be considered:

- Require annual registration of all firearms.
- Lost/missing guns must be reported in a timely manner (we can talk about what a timely manner means).
- Require that guns owners show proof of ownership of a gun safe.
- Prevent the open carrying of all guns except in areas that are zoned for hunting.
- Weapons that are being transported from a gun owner's residence to an area zoned for hunting must be concealed, unloaded, and have trigger locks in place.
- Allow citizens to have guns in their own home for protection.
- Increase penalties for those found guilty of illegally importing, transferring, or acquiring guns.
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