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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:15 PM

 

Practical suggestions for inhibiting mass murders. And not just the ones that use guns.

I'll start.

Total media blackout on the identities of mass murderers, except when necessary to catch them or for investigations.

If Timothy McVeigh was known entirely as "murderer 29", and Seung-Hui Cho as "murderer 102" in major media, I think that would diminish the motivation for many, since many mass killers are motivated by fame and record setting.

Of course the First Amendment says that this can't be legally mandated, but if one powerful media giant led the way, I think others would follow. You could still probably find the info by researching online, but it wouldn't have the same "rock star" vibe that it does to appeal to sickos now.

Perhaps if this latest lunatic had know that his face wouldn't be splashed on the front pages all across America, mass murder would have been less appealing.

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Reply Practical suggestions for inhibiting mass murders. And not just the ones that use guns. (Original post)
TPaine7 Dec 2012 OP
phantom power Dec 2012 #1
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #10
Hoyt Dec 2012 #2
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #4
Hoyt Dec 2012 #5
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #8
Hoyt Dec 2012 #12
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #13
Hoyt Dec 2012 #15
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #22
slutticus Dec 2012 #16
Hoyt Dec 2012 #21
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #18
shintao Dec 2012 #51
DanTex Dec 2012 #3
Hoyt Dec 2012 #6
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #7
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #11
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #14
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #9
Separation Dec 2012 #17
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #19
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #20
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #23
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #25
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #27
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #29
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #35
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #40
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #42
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #44
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #46
RZM Dec 2012 #24
ellisonz Dec 2012 #26
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #28
ellisonz Dec 2012 #30
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #32
ellisonz Dec 2012 #33
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #37
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #41
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #45
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #48
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #50
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #52
ellisonz Dec 2012 #43
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #53
ellisonz Dec 2012 #54
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #57
morningfog Dec 2012 #31
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #34
morningfog Dec 2012 #36
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #38
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #39
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #47
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #49
cali Dec 2012 #55
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #56

Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:23 PM

1. as I've mentioned before, fight the decay of social capital:

This recent toon sums up a lot in that vein.


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Response to phantom power (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:33 PM

10. +1

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:33 PM

2. Perhaps if guns weren't revered/cherished in this country. . . . . .

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:40 PM

4. Gun as objects of obsession and of unprincipled power? I absolutly agree with you.

 

But I was looking for a more comprehensive solution; something that would stop the McVeighs of the world as well as this latest sicko.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:44 PM

5. Look first at those who support more guns in more places.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:28 PM

8. How do gun bans work now? nt

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:58 PM

12. There's never been a strict ban. I hope we become like Switzerland or Australia.

They've done well. You guys can have a gun at home to hug, but you'll have to leave it there like the vast majority of us do.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:00 PM

13. But all those shootings that have occurred...those guns WERE at home. They took them...

out to kill people.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:05 PM

15. Here's truth - we need to change perception of guns so those who love them are ashamed to be seen

near them.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:53 PM

22. I don't know if that'd work. PETA's been on a campaign against fur for decades.

It worked on me, but I don't see it working on many others.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:06 PM

16. Switzerland?

Can you elaborate on the swiss gun ban?

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Response to slutticus (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:32 PM

21. They can keep a gun locked away for national emergencies. But almost no one can carry or

amass a weapons cache. Guns aren't held in high esteem. Yahoos don't celebrate their lethal weapons by practicing on targets that resemble people. There is no NRA, or other similar right wing, bigoted groups.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:09 PM

18. I meant like "no guns in the school" "no guns in the theater" nt

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:05 AM

51. We can make a laundry list

 

Go back to square one and secure schools and colleges with armed guards & Administration. There are many enhancements that can be done to protect students & administrations.

Stop wars, stop advertising for soldiers.

Ban violent movies, videos & games.

Ensure mentally ill get proper care.

Put a gun in every adults hand & repeal all gun laws.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:37 PM

3. The vast majority of mass murders in the US use guns.

In China today, there was a school stabbing. Zero dead. In the US, a school shooting. 27 dead.

There is crime everywhere, and there are crazy people everywhere. But without easy access to guns, the wackos and criminals kill far fewer people. That's why the US has about 4X more homicides than the rest of the developed world.

It's no use trying to pretend that guns have nothing to do with gun violence. We can't prevent all mass shootings, but we can certainly make them a lot less frequent and a lot less deadly.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:45 PM

6. Exactly. A 10% improvement is significant.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:56 PM

7. I would never pretend that "guns have nothing to do with gun violence."

 

But behind the guns issue is the obsession with power and its unprincipled exercise in physical violence.

I am 100% behind making mass gun murders "a lot less frequent and a lot less deadly." I have only two requests--that they be practical and that they not eviscerate the practical right to self-defense. Come up with a practical non lethal alternative self-defense device that is as portable, as practical, as effective and as inexpensive as a gun and I would seriously consider repealing or at least modifying the Second Amendment.

I think any comparison of countries should involve more than gun prevalence. There is gross inequality in wealth and opportunity in America far more than in many places. There are also cultural differences. When I was in France, I noticed that people were quite different; among other things they seemed less materialistic and status conscious. They took time to eat communal meals.

And, IIRC, England's murder rate was much lower than ours well before their ultra-strict gun laws. Apples to tangerines is always difficult.

Sometimes I get the feeling that if gun possession and gun murders went to zero but murder actually rose, some people would be delighted. (I'm being sarcastic, but I think there's a grain of truth in there.)

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:40 PM

11. knife massacres in china -- of schoolchildren -- *do* result in fatalities and mass casualties

 

though.

On March 23, 2010, Zheng Minsheng 41, murdered eight children with a knife in an elementary school in Nanping, Fujian province; The attack was widely reported in Chinese media (called sparking fears of copycat crimes....

Just a few hours after the execution of Zheng Minsheng in neighboring Fujian Province, in Leizhou, Guangdong another knife-wielding man named Chen Kangbing, 33 at Hongfu Primary School wounded 16 students and a teacher.

On April 29 in Taixing, Jiangsu, 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten and stabbed 28 students, two teachers and one security guard; most of the Taixing students were 4 years old. On April 30, Wang Yonglai used a hammer to cause head injury to preschool children in Weifang...

An attacker named Wu Huanming, 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010; early reports were removed from the internet in China, for fear that mass coverage of such violence can provoke copycat attacks.

26-year-old Fang Jiantang slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60 cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher, at a kindergarten...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29


seems china is actually ahead of us in the massacres of elementary school kids department...

and then there's tractors:

The Hebei tractor rampage was a spontaneous mass murder incident in which 17 people were killed in Yuanshi County, Hebei, China by a shovel loader. The rampage began when coal worker Li Xianliang, who had been drinking and had blood alcohol content of 154 milligrams per 100 millilitres, had an argument with a customer, whom he then tried to kill. The customer escaped, but another nearby was killed as the rampage began...

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Response to DanTex (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:04 PM

14. I heard on tv that there are 350M people in the US and 280M guns. So they're out there....

even if ALL guns were suddenly illegal to be sold, there's still 280M guns out there, and they will be there 50 years from now. Sold on the black market, of course.

Then guns will be smuggled in, like when there was prohibition, and like now, when there are anti-drug laws.

It's tough.

It may be more of a combination of things....a public PR campaign against guns and violence and anger management, strong laws for background checks of ALL guns sold (even at gun shows), and stop the selling of military and assault guns.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:32 PM

9. +1

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:08 PM

17. Immediate and comprehensive

Mental health care reform.

Your idea is also another good idea.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:19 PM

19. That's one of the most simplistic theories I have seen come out of the NRA in a while...

Imagine, if the murderer of John Lennon had been referred to as murderer-80. At least it would have given all the CT'ers plenty of stuff to theorize about.

Absolutely silly.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:27 PM

20. Why make up lies? That didn't come from the NRA; you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

And I notice that you have no practical suggestion to offer that's not "silly" in your estimation.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:59 PM

23. I then apologize for assuming that you represented the NRA.

"Imagine, if the murderer of John Lennon had been referred to as murderer-80. At least it would have given all the CT'ers plenty of stuff to theorize about."

So you don't believe this would happen? That would really be a wet dream for the NRA.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:14 PM

25. Wow, apology accepted. That's classy.

 

I didn't answer your question because I don't understand it.

What's a CT'er? Why would it be a wet dream for the NRA?

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:22 PM

27. CT'ers...

conspiracy theorists, crazy shit... (from DU's rules).

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:28 PM

29. I'm not interested in that stuff, but I think lots of mass shootings are motivated, at least

 

partially, by the desire for notoriety, for going out in a "blaze of glory." IIRC, the Virgina Tech shooter spoke explicitly about breaking records in his little home video.

Diminishing the glory should diminish the motivation for many folks. Just my humble opinion.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:03 PM

35. Neither am I. But if we don't have openess and transparency, then we will have a police state.

And who will control the names that get released? The corporate (and NRA) world that is working on controlling the government, especially after the Citizens United decision.

Transparency and openness is the answer, not hiding who did it. Those that have perpetrated crimes like this may go out in a blaze of glory, but there is no glory shown by the media, only disdain.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:19 PM

40. Please see post 37. nt

 

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:22 PM

42. Many media sorces don't give the names of certain crime victims and society doesn't crumble.

 

And you can still dig and find them.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:26 PM

44. CRIME VICTIMS!! We are talking about the perpetrators of the crime.

I want EVERYONE to know that Adam Lanza committed a HITLER type crime. FUCK HIM. Why should his name be protected.

I will refrain from suggesting you do something anatomically impossible.

Edited to add: You just EQUATED Adam Lanza's victims to Adam Lanza. You really need to stop drinking the NRA Koolaid.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:00 AM

46. He wants everyone to know, he wants you to be saying "FUCK HIM"

 

At least if he is like the others the psychiatrist spoke about.

You just EQUATED Adam Lanza's victims to Adam Lanza. You really need to stop drinking the NRA Koolaid.


No I didn't, I compared

1) suppressing IDs of crime victims to prevent their re-victimization

to

2) suppressing ID's of mass murderers to avoid encouraging others who would emulate them

And the NRA had nothing to do with it.

I'm attempting to have a civil discussion with you, these are my own thoughts, not the NRA's. Can you accept that?

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:05 PM

24. This could never, ever happen

 

There's a huge amount of public interest in the identities of murderers. That means there's an enormous amount of money to be made in it as well.

Complete non-starter.

I don't think 'In Cold Blood' would have been much of a success if on every page the killers were referred to as 'Murderers #34097 and #34098.'

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:15 PM

26. Your proposal conflicts with the 1st, 5th, and 6th Amendments to the US Constitution

1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


5. No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


6. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeus_corpus

You're not suggesting that gun violence in this country has reached such a level of "public danger" that Habeus corpus ought to be suspended are you?

I suggest you call it a night.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:23 PM

28. Did you miss this part of the OP?

 

Of course the First Amendment says that this can't be legally mandated, but if one powerful media giant led the way, I think others would follow. You could still probably find the info by researching online, but it wouldn't have the same "rock star" vibe that it does to appeal to sickos now.


I am suggesting VOLUNTARY curtailing of speech. I've asked for public pressure to prod the media giants here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021981534

As for the rest of it, I have no idea how voluntary curtailing of speech violates it either.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:30 PM

30. I'm tired...

...tired of the ridiculous fantasies of the gun extremist crowd at DU. Yes, I misread you, but the profoundly anti-democratic nature of your post supersedes my error by large volumes.

I was shocked by the fascist nature of your suggestion. You're proposing that the public does not have a right to widely know the nature of the accused, that's un-American. In fact, my first reaction was that no word better described such a proposal than this: Orwellian.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:40 PM

32. Did you miss this part of the OP?

 

You could still probably find the info by researching online, but it wouldn't have the same "rock star" vibe that it does to appeal to sickos now.


There's nothing Orwellian about it. It's voluntary and purposefully incomplete. The point is to take away the "rock star" vibe, voluntarily; the public still has a right to know, you could still find out. If no media reported it, you could still find it online, maybe in court records.

I get that you don't like my point of view (and possibly me personally), but I do my best to respect all rights. Even so, I don't understand why I would care a murderer's name was Bob Smith or Jim Thompson, unless I knew the Smiths or the Thompsons.

I just think mass murderers deserve obscurity--voluntary, constitutional obscurity.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:47 PM

33. Bah.

The point is to take away the "rock star" vibe


Is that what you think the vibe is?

I get that you don't like my point of view (and possibly me personally), but I do my best to respect all rights.


I hate your politics with the utmost contempt because they put my family, my community, and my country in grave danger. Your proposal is anti-democratic at best. You're advocating for the voluntary restriction of the free flow of information and discourse in a free society.

I just think mass murderers deserve obscurity--voluntary, constitutional obscurity.


I feel the same way about the NRA and their toads.



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Response to ellisonz (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:11 PM

37. "the 'rock star' vibe"

 

Newser) – Gunfire ripped out across the country last week in a spate of deadly shootings that were unrelated but for one haunting thread: the shooters’ desire for attention, a forensic psychiatrist tells ABC News. “We have to take the Paris Hilton attention-seeking out of crime, or innocent people will be killed,” Dr. Michael Welner says.

The shooters in Missouri, Louisiana, and Illinois all felt ignored, explains Welner, who’s urging the media to shift attention from the criminals to the victims. “We should not be focusing on the manifesto...."

http://www.newser.com/story/18672/notoriety-drives-mass-shooters.html


These people see mass murder as the way to gain attention in death that they were unable to get in life. There are two ways to approach this problem:

1) Work hard to become a more loving, inclusive, non-bullying, you're NOT in it by yourself society.
2) Do not reward mass murder with massive, personal attention.

I think both are needed.

PS: Do you actually want an honest exchange of ideas or just an opportunity to lash out at me?

Personally, the best discussions I ever have are with people who disagree with me; I couldn't learn anything from my intellectual clone.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:21 PM

41. That again sounds very simplistic.

To your points:

1.) That's nice, but please explain how that would be accomplished.
2.) Again, that is a nice idea, but as I and others have pointed out, we are a free and open society. We demand transparency of the government (well, at least those of us who believe in a democracy do).

What is the theme in most of the murders in the US (mass-murders or single):
1.) Access to firearms and easy access to firearms.
2.) Mental illness, exacerbated by item #1.
3.) Drug abuse, exacerbated by items #1 and #2.

I really find that saying your "be happy" solution to be very insulting. So do you have any real solutions to this epidemic?



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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:48 PM

45. It just an idea of something that could be done quickly, given public support.

 

1.) That's nice, but please explain how that would be accomplished.


I did in the OP and here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021981534

2.) Again, that is a nice idea, but as I and others have pointed out, we are a free and open society. We demand transparency of the government (well, at least those of us who believe in a democracy do).


CNN and MSNBC aren't the government. And the information would still be publicly available. There is not a compelling corrupt reason to avoid broadcasting 24-7 the fact that the killer's name was John Smith and not Ted Jones; it won't affect policy, it won't help anyone make money, it simply denies a murderer the notoriety he seeks.

What is the theme in most of the murders in the US (mass-murders or single):
1.) Access to firearms and easy access to firearms.
2.) Mental illness, exacerbated by item #1.
3.) Drug abuse, exacerbated by items #1 and #2.

I really find that saying your "be happy" solution to be very insulting. So do you have any real solutions to this epidemic?


I totally agree that access to guns for unfit persons needs to be cut off. I have many other ideas, the one in the OP is the one that could potentially be done fastest, IMO, if there was enough public support. And unlike you, I tend to agree with the forensic psychiatrist. Giving these guys notoriety leads to more deaths.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x320988

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=92460

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1964884


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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:13 AM

48. I will reiterate it again (sorry for the redundancy)...

1.) Your happy-happy-joy-joy comment says nothing to the issue and has nothing to do what you originally claimed.

2.) I'm not sure why you think someone else thinks CNN & M$NBC are government, though Fox Noise does think they are government (how well did that work out for them last month ) The media, AKA the Fourth Estate is the extension of the First Amendment and should not be taken lightly, even though it has been debased by the likes of Fox Noise over the last few years. It is important to have transparency. All people accused of a crime deserve their day in court, and it is our right to know who they are. By saying what you are implying, does that mean you think Timothy McVeigh (another ardent supporter of the NRA and gun rights for everyone) should not have been identified? Are you also implying we should not know who these gun-nut murderers are????

3.) Can you please explain your forensic psychiatrist comment.



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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:37 AM

50. Hope this helps...

 

1.) Your happy-happy-joy-joy comment says nothing to the issue and has nothing to do what you originally claimed.


Ok, we'll just have to agree to disagree on your first point.

I'm not sure why you think someone else thinks CNN & M$NBC are government,


Here's what you said in post 41:



2.) Again, that is a nice idea, but as I and others have pointed out, we are a free and open society. We demand transparency of the government (well, at least those of us who believe in a democracy do).


...The media, AKA the Fourth Estate is the extension of the First Amendment and should not be taken lightly, even though it has been debased by the likes of Fox Noise over the last few years. It is important to have transparency. All people accused of a crime deserve their day in court, and it is our right to know who they are. By saying what you are implying, does that mean you think Timothy McVeigh (another ardent supporter of the NRA and gun rights for everyone) should not have been identified? Are you also implying we should not know who these gun-nut murderers are????


Not that the information shouldn't be available, but that a mass murderer's name should not be broadcast 24/7. If you wanted to know it, you could find it, but he wouldn't be "famous" and his "fame" wouldn't inspire copycats. And voluntary suppression doesn't implicate the First Amendment.

3.) Can you please explain your forensic psychiatrist comment.


Sure, here's post 37, which your post 41 was responding to:

Newser) – Gunfire ripped out across the country last week in a spate of deadly shootings that were unrelated but for one haunting thread: the shooters’ desire for attention, a forensic psychiatrist tells ABC News. “We have to take the Paris Hilton attention-seeking out of crime, or innocent people will be killed,” Dr. Michael Welner says.

The shooters in Missouri, Louisiana, and Illinois all felt ignored, explains Welner, who’s urging the media to shift attention from the criminals to the victims. “We should not be focusing on the manifesto...."

http://www.newser.com/story/18672/notoriety-drives-mass-shooters.html

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:08 AM

52. For someone condemning "attention-seeking", this Dr. Welner seems to be seeking some very

high profile cases.

You got me thinking now, sir.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:23 PM

43. I think Mr. Welner is wrong.

I think he's especially wrong if we're talking about putting your nonsense proposal ahead of real gun control reform.

What I find astounding is that you don't seem to understand the immense anger toward the "gun rights" crowd and continue to try to interject such trite rationalizations in a defense of such nonsense. Let's face it, what you're proposing is an outrageous fantasy and you made an even more outrageous proposal this morning: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021978067

IMHO - you owe the DU community an apology for your poorly timed, trite, and counter-factual post.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:09 AM

53. Dr. Welner is an attention seeking whore. Kind of screws up the whole basis of this thread.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:25 AM

54. That, that it does.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:32 PM

31. You seem to think, rather simplistically, that the sole reason for a mass SHOOTING is the want for

notoriety. Weak sauce.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:51 PM

34. Sigh...

 

I get that you despise my point of view and possibly me, but of course I don't think "the sole reason for a mass SHOOTING is the want for notoriety."

From the OP:

If Timothy McVeigh was known entirely as "murderer 29", and Seung-Hui Cho as "murderer 102" in major media, I think that would diminish the motivation for many, since many mass killers are motivated by fame and record setting.


If the desire for notoriety were "the sole reason" for mass shootings, it wouldn't simply diminish the motivation, it would remove it. I won't harp on reading comprehension, I'll simply say that you need to be a little less eager in your attacks.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:09 PM

36. I think you offered the weakest, most ridiculous change to address the issue.

Utterly meaningless and a distraction.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:13 PM

38. Of course you do. See the quotation in post 37. nt

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:16 PM

39. I don't think this is practical, logical, or desirable in our democracy.

Despite what Clay Aiken tweeted.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:10 AM

47. Here's a better idea

 

If you have a friend or relative living with someone who is having mental health problems and there are guns in the house, urge them to get the guns out of the house. Put them in a storage locker or take them to a relatives home.

I did this with a friend who was in an abusive marriage recently and she said it may have saved her life. Sometimes small things matter. She's divorced now and the guns were eventually turned over to our local police.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:15 AM

49. That is a great idea, I've support it in the past.

 

It would just take more time to get laws saying that than to contact media and encourage them to change as I suggested here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021981534

I agree with your personal action; and I think it should be backed by law.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:27 AM

55. what fuckiing garbage.

two fucking words: GUN CONTROL

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Response to cali (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:32 AM

56. So true. Dr. Pain has spent ten hours dancing around the elephant in the room.

And yet we all know what is the problem. 300 million problems.

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