HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Gun rights person myself.
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:14 PM

Gun rights person myself.

I am a firearm owner, and a believer in the 2nd. I own a few and have a CC permit.

However. This is out of control. Gun violence is at insane levels. Guns are everywhere. Something has to be changed, and the beginning of the next year is the time to push for change.

1: If you are a legal gun owner, like myself, you should be made to RENEW a registration of that weapon each and every year that you own it. That registration has to be progressive as to not disallow people who are less fortunate (finance wise) to afford to LEGALLY own a weapon. First weapon, if a bolt action rifle or pump shotgun, is $5/year. From there for second weapons and weapons that have greater capacity the registration costs rise, rapidly.

2: To carry a weapon requires a permit, as it is in most cases. The permit rules are fine as they are as far as I am concerned but I would be willing to listen to any other reasonable requirement.

3: The penalties for having a gun on your person/car while unregistered or un-permitted need to become severe. Not felony severe, but DUI severe. Make that the same slogan ... DUI, you can not afford it. Unlawful carry, you can not afford it. Take the gun, destroy the gun.

4: Guns need to become more expensive, and quick. Gun show? Fine, every weapon on that premise needs to be inspected for registration and a $250 registration change fee (just threw a number out). We have to make it more expensive to purchase a weapon, and we have to get these weapons off the street. There should be inexpensive weapons, single shot rifles, pump shot guns, wheel handguns, after that guns need to be 1K or above.

5: Control of your guns. Own guns? Fine. They need to be secured. Can't secure them? Don't own them. If they are stolen, it must be reported immediately. If it is found that they were stolen because they were not secured, $1K fine per gun. Has to be extreme, we have to get the guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.

How do we get the guns out of the hands of criminals? Fucking easy. Throw 100 Billion dollars at it. Start at the pawn shops, go in there and buy them all ... grind them to a pulp. Make guns expensive, make the penalty for owning unregistered weapons unthinkable. Commit violence with a gun? Gone ... buh bye, 20 years.

Stop the manufacture of new weapons for two years. Period. Until the value of those items becomes more in line with the damage they can inflict.

I can tell you right now this will be unpopular, hell ... I don't like it. But something has to change, this level of gun violence is unacceptable.

Back to lurking.



29 replies, 1480 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gun rights person myself. (Original post)
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 OP
Harmony Blue Dec 2012 #1
DanTex Dec 2012 #12
Hoyt Dec 2012 #2
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #11
OneGrassRoot Dec 2012 #3
WhoIsNumberNone Dec 2012 #4
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #5
Hoyt Dec 2012 #6
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #14
Hoyt Dec 2012 #15
dembotoz Dec 2012 #7
leftstreet Dec 2012 #8
aquart Dec 2012 #10
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #13
PavePusher Dec 2012 #17
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #24
PavePusher Dec 2012 #29
aquart Dec 2012 #9
PavePusher Dec 2012 #16
Hayabusa Dec 2012 #18
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #19
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #26
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #20
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #28
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #21
NickB79 Dec 2012 #22
Robb Dec 2012 #25
Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #27
truebluegreen Dec 2012 #23

Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:16 PM

1. Statistically gun murders are down but gun massacres are up

so yes it is time to start talking about the gun crisis.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:32 PM

12. Yes, gun murders are down, but shootings are up.

The fraction of shooting victims that die has been going down, in part due to improvements in emergency medicine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:17 PM

2. Great ideas. I wish you could leave your guns at home though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:30 PM

11. I generally do

The fact of the matter is to carry a handgun at all is an iffy situation if you do not have a CCL. Is it illegal to take it to the range to shoot? Prolly not, if I leave it in my trunk over the weekend after that? Why bother, just get the CCL. My handgun has not been fired in, hell I'm not even sure ... maybe 5 years. The last time one of weapons was out of the cabinet was to go shoot trap, which is a blast, and that was well over a year ago.

I am the majority of gun owners, I have some guns, shoot them every once in a while, look at them or think about them rarely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:17 PM

3. Thank you for a civil post. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #3)


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:18 PM

5. So you're advocating...

...another civil war?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:23 PM

6. WtF? Are all you supposedly law-abiding gun owners gonna start shooting to preserve access to more

and more guns? What exactly are you promoting?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:39 PM

14. Promoting? Nothing...

...I was just asking a question. Since you bring it up, what are you promoting?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:42 PM

15. Sane gun laws that keep them away from the callous.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:26 PM

7. some of your ideas make some sense

although i do fear creating an underground world centered around guns

plenty of folk already believe that obama is out to take thier toys away--witness the spike in gun and ammo sales right after each of his elections.

efforts to control this will make the crazy and not so crazy gun types feel like they are members of the french resistance during world war 2

reform must come from the right--as in the nra or the tea party thugs
they have to police thier own

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:26 PM

8. So only the right economic class should own guns?

You had me on 1 - 3. Good suggestions.

But you're not suggesting people who can afford expensive guns would never shoot up a school?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:30 PM

10. Hmmm. Have they?

Wasn't looking at the economic component. But it's worth a study.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:36 PM

13. No,

I clearly said that there should be inexpensive weapons. Single shot (bolt action rifles), pump shotguns, wheel handguns.

Yea, that AR needs to be pricey. The reason there are to many guns is because they are cheap. There are semi-auto weapons for sale for $250, if you want to make a real difference, that has to change.

I am not suggesting anything about class. I am saying that it is time to do something. I threw out what I would consider to be rules that I would bitch about being extreme, but I could live with them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:42 PM

17. Oh.... so, Constitutional Rights for the rich and powerful.

 

The commoners... not so much.

Bleh....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PavePusher (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:14 PM

24. Rethinking that position

I have to agree with you on this point.

Not like the rich already have an advantage. Want to buy that Glock? It's a $700 gun. Want to buy that Sig? Another $1k. No reason only the wealthy should be able to afford these types of weapons. I think the government should help the "commoners" buy more powerful weapons.

Below poverty level? You should be able to own the most powerful weapon that money can buy, just like that rich guy. Hell, maybe you need three of them. Maybe a subsidy on ammunition as well, what ... you get 5K rounds a year? Hollow point? Hell yea, 10K rounds of those. Let's make guns cheaper so everyone can afford to have 10 of them.

I thought about this all wrong, and I am a gun owner. Let's make guns more affordable to the masses, hell you should be able to buy them with SNAP dollars at walmart. Maybe a refundable tax credit, have kids and make below a certain amount? Uncle Sam gives you a weapon instead of a tax refund.

I can not believe I did not think of this, the solution is to make guns more accessible, to everyone. Hell, Red Box should rent them by the hour outside of Kroger.

FFS.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:24 PM

29. "the solution is to make guns more accessible, to everyone."

 

Sadly, your strawman was so weak, s/he never even made it into the ring.

Because I didn't say anything like that.

Care to try again?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:28 PM

9. I can live with this. Mail order?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:40 PM

16. Article 5 of the Constitution awaits you.

 

Otherwise, see post #5.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:49 PM

18. A lot of good ideas

some I don't agree with, but mostly some very good ideas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:49 PM

19. As am I. Some thoughts on your sugestions:

1. (registration) - I'm not clear on just what benefit accrued from registration. Is there a significant increase in the ability of law enforcement to solve crimes (any LEO types out there that can answer?)? I don't think registration can act as a crime preventative...but I'm willing to listen to cogent arguments to that effect.

2. (permit required to carry) - I'm all for that. Most states have such programs, and must have reasonable requirements for obaining a permit (although if it were practical, I'd prefer to see a basic competency test...).

3. (severe penalties) - Until convinced of the benefits of registration, I'll have to pass on the former, but I'm definitely n favor of stiff penalties for un-permitted carry. Since it's a given that people with criminal records will not obtain such permits (since the application process would catch them), this would provide grounds to lock such persons up.

4. (increasing expense) - I'm very dubious about plans that impact poor people disproportionately.

5. (proper security requirements) - All for it, and I advocate this strongly all the time. Securing your weapons is a basic requirement for any gun owner, and failure to do so should be punished severely. Theft is not the only method by which criminals unlawfully obtain guns, but it's a big one.

Thank you for posting something productive amid all the hysteria.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:24 PM

26. Something

I am not about to imply that I know the solution. I'm just a blue collar guy who goes to work everyday and lives my life to the best of my ability. I put forth some ideas that, as a gun owner, would perhaps help to curtail the epidemic of gun violence in this country.

As you can see, any idea no matter how it is put forth is meant with extreme hostility. There will be no gun reform until we can have a dialog that does not include these elements.

Registration is one way of helping to make legal gun owners different from illegal gun owners. The laws have to change or this will just be the last event, followed by the next event.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:04 PM

20. Your cost portions are classic Classism

Disarms the poor who arguably have a higher need for self defense than the well to do living in secure buildings and communities.

It also treats single shot weapons the same as ARs.

You might want to revise your vision

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:36 PM

28. How?

I already said that different weapons of differnt degrees of firepower should have progressive registration costs.

The single shot weapons should have a completely different cost to own then a semi-auto.

And, I have a news flash for you, the rich already have alot nicer guns than you and I. But, I am pretty sure the 1% is not running around killing people with guns, they are fucking us in a much different way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:05 PM

21. I agree

Except I would ban gun shows completely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:12 PM

22. I have a question regarding your first suggestion

Say I don't renew my gun registration by the required time. What happens then?

Does the government come to my house and confiscate private property? Do they enter my house in order to do so? If they do, am I financially compensated for the loss of private property? Do they arrest me on the street, or issue an arrest warrant for me so that it pops up if I get pulled over for speeding?

Of all your suggestions, this is the one I could see a good legal team having a field day with in front of the Supreme Court.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NickB79 (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:18 PM

25. Heavy fine. Backed up with liens. Hold on driver's license renewal. Bench warrant.

Turn you over to collections vultures as the fines accrue.

Then, once a year, an amnesty day -- sort of like they do with parking tickets -- where you can get off the hook for the fines by forfeiting the weapon in question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Robb (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:29 PM

27. -nod-

Going to have to agree here.

Want to own a weapon? You have to prove that weapon is still in your possession, and being kept securely. If not, surrender it with no penalty.

Ownership of the weapon has to come with responsibilty. Even that old ass 30-30 that grandpa gave you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lurker Deluxe (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:45 PM

23. Thank you for the sanity.

An excellent place to start.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread