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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:50 PM

If not guns, then something has to be done about mental health access and...

America's culture of violence. Why is it that so many other countries have people with guns yet don't have all the shootings that America has? Why does France and Germany have only a few hundred murders a year while the U.S. has more than 10,000? Do they have less mentally ill people? Or is it that people in other developed countries just have a sense (through culture) that when you get angry, you don't take out that anger with violence and especially with guns. Bowling for Columbine addressed this.

If we can't get rid of guns and can't change America's culture, at least vastly improve mental health funding.

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Reply If not guns, then something has to be done about mental health access and... (Original post)
AZ Progressive Dec 2012 OP
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #1
phantom power Dec 2012 #2
riqster Dec 2012 #3
blue neen Dec 2012 #4
FarCenter Dec 2012 #5
Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2012 #6
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #7

Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:55 PM

1. I agree --whatever it is, whatever is wrong and whatever the solution is,

we have GOT to figure it out.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:03 PM

2. I think there is a coherent case to be made...

that American gun fetishism and the prevalence of gun violence are symptoms of other social pathologies, as opposed to causes.

However, pro-gun advocates don't seem to have anything to offer outside of either (a) everybody should carry a gun, and/or (b) these events are the price of respecting the 2nd amendment.

Whatever the solution might be, (a) and (b) will do absolutely nothing to reduce gun violence. Until we get past that, one way or another, these horrific shootings are going to continue.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:08 PM

3. There are ways to filter out the mentally ill from permits

But that isn't enough to stop this type of tragedy from occurring. St. Ronnie eviscerated the American mental health system in the 80's, and unless we create something to detect and treat those members of the populace, we will keep on seeing this type if horrific scene,

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:10 PM

4. Agreed.

It's another very sad day for our country. I feel so sorry for everyone who lost a family member today...I feel so sorry for all the kids in that school whose lives will never be the same.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:14 PM

5. France and Germany thinned out their agressive young males in the period 1914 to 1945.

Recall that the major European countries conscripted and sent to the front tens of millions of agressive young males, many of whom did not make it home.

On the other hand the US is populated by a large, self-selected group who invaded and conquered the continent.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:28 PM

6. It isn't just "access" my family has been down this road

My family had more than sufficient means to provide for a relatives psychiatric and substance abuse medical needs. He didn't want it and with the assistance of pro bono lawyers obtained restraining orders against the family. These assholes ran a whole practice around keeping the families of the mentally ill from trying to help.

This wasn't an access issue, this was a "you're fucking crazy" issue and it needs to be much, much easier to get people permanently committed.

This is a rare point of consensus for the left and right. The left believes that forcing treatment on the violent and insane is an infringement on their gawd given right to be violent and insane and the right is completely indifferent - they just don't want to pay for it.

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:32 PM

7. +1 nt

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