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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:21 PM

 

Yes, I wish a teacher or other responsible adult had been armed

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:00 PM - Edit history (1)

2 adults shot dead, witness says

Parent: Three adults ran toward gunfire, 2 were slain
Shooter also dead at Connecticut school
Shooting happened at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown BLOG

http://www.cnn.com/


These brave adults heroically ran into gunfire. Unarmed!

No one can doubt their heroism, but why do we, as a society, have policies that forced them to run into gunfire UNARMED? We don't even require that of SEALS!

Of course not every teacher should carry. And armed teachers of small children should be specially trained. But a total ban is just silly.

And why should visiting parents, people with CCW permits, be forbidden to carry on school grounds? For ideological purity?! A child is less likely to be killed by a CCW permit holder than to be struck by lightening; the hysteria about CCW permittees in schools is totally out of touch with reality.

President Obama's balanced approach is right:

The fact is, almost all gun owners in America are highly responsible. They're our friends and neighbors. They buy their guns legally and use them safely, whether for hunting or target shooting, collection or protection. And that's something that gun-safety advocates need to accept. Likewise, advocates for gun owners should accept the awful reality that gun violence affects Americans everywhere, whether on the streets of Chicago or at a supermarket in Tucson.

http://azstarnet.com/news/opinion/mailbag/president-obama-we-must-seek-agreement-on-gun-reforms/article_011e7118-8951-5206-a878-39bfbc9dc89d.html


Everyone knows guns can cause harm; why can't we admit that they can do good, too?

Edited to add: Perhaps those who hate this OP will be able to find common ground with this one. It's not about me and it actually could help, IMHO. It's about the victims.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021981534

If you think this will do any good, let your care for the children override your contempt for my ideas (or for me personally, as the case may be).

161 replies, 9640 views

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Arrow 161 replies Author Time Post
Reply Yes, I wish a teacher or other responsible adult had been armed (Original post)
TPaine7 Dec 2012 OP
Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2012 #1
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #14
DURHAM D Dec 2012 #2
Remmah2 Dec 2012 #80
JanMichael Dec 2012 #3
Lightbulb_on Dec 2012 #143
blm Dec 2012 #4
cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #24
TrogL Dec 2012 #146
WinniSkipper Dec 2012 #51
alp227 Dec 2012 #121
PavePusher Dec 2012 #133
upaloopa Dec 2012 #5
GCP Dec 2012 #8
wryter2000 Dec 2012 #18
Iggo Dec 2012 #25
PavePusher Dec 2012 #137
upaloopa Dec 2012 #141
PavePusher Dec 2012 #147
cbayer Dec 2012 #6
Agschmid Dec 2012 #12
DanTex Dec 2012 #7
godai Dec 2012 #19
NNN0LHI Dec 2012 #101
LineReply .
NRaleighLiberal Dec 2012 #9
cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #10
CreekDog Dec 2012 #11
justanidea Dec 2012 #13
upaloopa Dec 2012 #16
Generic Other Dec 2012 #61
erinlough Dec 2012 #77
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #128
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #125
Generic Other Dec 2012 #159
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #161
Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #15
NWHarkness Dec 2012 #17
Harmony Blue Dec 2012 #44
ProSense Dec 2012 #20
randome Dec 2012 #21
DemocratsForProgress Dec 2012 #22
WhoIsNumberNone Dec 2012 #23
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #32
MineralMan Dec 2012 #42
blue neen Dec 2012 #120
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #26
Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #27
Corgigal Dec 2012 #28
DrDan Dec 2012 #29
sufrommich Dec 2012 #30
liberalmuse Dec 2012 #31
MineralMan Dec 2012 #33
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #37
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #109
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #34
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #35
sufrommich Dec 2012 #43
joeybee12 Dec 2012 #36
NCTraveler Dec 2012 #38
ellisonz Dec 2012 #39
MineralMan Dec 2012 #45
DrDan Dec 2012 #48
randome Dec 2012 #54
DrDan Dec 2012 #64
cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #57
DanTex Dec 2012 #86
ellisonz Dec 2012 #89
Hell Hath No Fury Dec 2012 #40
pnwmom Dec 2012 #41
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #59
pnwmom Dec 2012 #67
pnwmom Dec 2012 #92
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #107
pnwmom Dec 2012 #117
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #144
DevonRex Dec 2012 #46
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #47
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #49
kysrsoze Dec 2012 #50
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #132
aint_no_life_nowhere Dec 2012 #52
mike_c Dec 2012 #53
Cheap_Trick Dec 2012 #55
Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #56
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #58
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #60
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #65
former-republican Dec 2012 #71
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #72
former-republican Dec 2012 #79
Rambis Dec 2012 #62
BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #63
Laurian Dec 2012 #87
tallahasseedem Dec 2012 #96
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #103
aquart Dec 2012 #65
H2O Man Dec 2012 #68
anneboleyn Dec 2012 #74
NNN0LHI Dec 2012 #69
October Dec 2012 #70
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #73
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #75
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #83
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #90
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #129
LTR Dec 2012 #76
Taverner Dec 2012 #78
tledford Dec 2012 #81
MANative Dec 2012 #82
gollygee Dec 2012 #84
adigal Dec 2012 #85
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #114
opiate69 Dec 2012 #88
cpamomfromtexas Dec 2012 #91
LancetChick Dec 2012 #93
Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #100
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #104
DainBramaged Dec 2012 #94
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #102
DainBramaged Dec 2012 #124
Skip Intro Dec 2012 #95
SidDithers Dec 2012 #97
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #110
obnoxiousdrunk Dec 2012 #115
Moostache Dec 2012 #98
GoneOffShore Dec 2012 #126
WiffenPoof Dec 2012 #130
Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #99
GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #105
LanternWaste Dec 2012 #106
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #108
Paladin Dec 2012 #111
cynatnite Dec 2012 #112
NYC Liberal Dec 2012 #113
LynneSin Dec 2012 #116
The Midway Rebel Dec 2012 #118
diphthong Dec 2012 #119
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #122
DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #123
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #134
Electric Monk Dec 2012 #127
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #131
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #135
Fearless Dec 2012 #136
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #140
Fearless Dec 2012 #145
libdem4life Dec 2012 #138
Rowdyboy Dec 2012 #139
FSogol Dec 2012 #150
VOX Dec 2012 #142
KG Dec 2012 #148
nolabear Dec 2012 #149
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #153
Taverner Dec 2012 #151
PA Democrat Dec 2012 #152
donheld Dec 2012 #154
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #155
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #156
myrna minx Dec 2012 #157
TPaine7 Dec 2012 #158
tiny elvis Dec 2012 #160

Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:22 PM

1. Do me a favor and please do not go about defending the goodness of guns today.

Another day, perhaps.

But today?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:26 PM

14. Guns are not "good", so I will not defend their "goodness." But I do agree with President Obama. nt

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:23 PM

2. I am surprised you didn't suggest

mandatory arming of 6 year old kids.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:12 PM

80. Another fantasy projection.

 

nt

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:24 PM

3. oh put a freaking lid on it.

a security guard yes, but a teacher? Jesus.

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:27 PM

143. I've known more teachers I would trust with my personal Springfield than security guards...

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:24 PM

4. Shooters had bulletproof vests - mentally unstable shooters come prepared, apparently.

Time for tighter gun controls on the mentally unstable.

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Response to blm (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:31 PM

24. But if there had been someone there who also had a semi-automatic weapon, and bullet-proof vest, and

helmet and if they had been in a tank, they could have stopped them.....*sarcasm*

Tighter gun controls for EVERYBODY.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:57 PM

146. You try teaching in a bullet-proof vest. I had enough trouble teaching in a suit vest.

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Response to blm (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:46 PM

51. I am guessing a very large percentage

 

of pro-2A people would agree with you. How do you suggest we do that?

Unfortunately - look at Holmes and Laughner. Where in the process of people (including authorities and administrators) having and expressing GREAT concerns about their mental stability could they have had either of these people declared incompetent? It should have been done. But how?

And are we willing to aply that same test to any of the other amendments? Because like it or not that is the challenge

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Response to blm (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:59 PM

121. So there goes the "guns save lives" argument, as shooters will just get body armor.

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Response to blm (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:47 PM

133. A "bulletproof vest" does not confer invincibility.

 

It's still going to feel like getting gut-punched. It will slow, shock and distract the criminal, very likely disable them. And they only cover a limited area, basicallt spine and C-P from the front.

Also pretty rare for criminals to use actual body armor. What is sometimes initially reported as such, later turns out to be a "tactical vest" which is basically a fishing/photography vest; lots of pockets, no armor.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:24 PM

5. The fucking solution is not more guns

Jesus fucking H Christ

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:25 PM

8. +1000

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:29 PM

18. Thanks

I could not put together words to express how I feel about this murderous nonsense. You did it for me.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:31 PM

25. Ah, thank you.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:03 PM

137. Are you trying to say that a lawful person with a gun would have made things worse? n/t

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #137)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:25 PM

141. Gunners only reply to a tragedy like this is to try and

reinforce their position.
More guns in society will bring more deaths. Get it?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #141)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:17 PM

147. So, should police forces be disbanded?

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:25 PM

6. What a load. I wish the shooter(s) had been unarmed.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:25 PM

12. Agree. n/t

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:25 PM

7. Ah, the gun crazies have arrived...

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Response to DanTex (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:29 PM

19. Yes, with the same tired talking points. n/t

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Response to DanTex (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:16 PM

101. DU has been infiltrated with whack jobs from the very beginning

We have more Reaganites here than anything else.

And before some Independent makes an ass out of himself pointing out that a lot of Democrats voted for Reagan they need to remember a larger percentage if Independents voted for Reagan than Democrats did.

True story.

I never did trust any Independents. Here or anywhere else. They suck big time.

Don

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:25 PM

9. .



I just don't know what makes those who post gun-support posts in the face of such tragedies tick.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:25 PM

10. Do good people with guns have sensors that alert them to trouble nearby???

Like batman or spiderman??

No. They just have to hope they're in the right place at the right time, and if the gun nuts I know are ever in that situation I'm 99% sure they'll be crying and shitting themselves in the corner rather than having the courage to actually do the right thing.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:25 PM

11. you want 28 dead?

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:26 PM

13. There needs to be a balanced approach.

 

As a gun owner I am 100% fine with closing the gun show loophole. (I.e. no background check on private sales)

However I also agree that those with permits should be allowed to carry at the school. Lots of states keep stats on their permit holders. Less than one tenth of one percent commit any kind of crime.

Its the sickos getting guns that is the problem.

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Response to justanidea (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:28 PM

16. The more the killings happen the less people

give a fuck what you think.
You getting to be on the wrong side of history.

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Response to justanidea (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:49 PM

61. Bottom line: I don't trust you around my children if you are armed

Stay out of their schools and classrooms.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #61)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:10 PM

77. Yes, yes, yes

And I don't want you in my hospital, at my restaurant, in my movie theater, my mall, or at my high school sports event.

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Response to erinlough (Reply #77)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:06 PM

128. It would be safer if you just never left your home.

Well, not really. Considering that CCW holders commit gun crime at a rate that is much less than common household accidents that kill or maim, staying home is really not the safe option.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #61)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:05 PM

125. While I understand your sentiment...

Your distrust is rooted in ignorance.

CCW holders are not the problem. Something around one tenth of one percent of CCW holders commit a gun crime. These are not the people you should be distrustful of.

Facts are facts. Nothing will change that.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #125)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:40 PM

159. I am hardly the ignorant one

You think you have a right to endanger my kids and my classroom. You assume everyone thinks paranoid gun toting numbskulls clutching their CWP like a security blanket make the rest of us feel safer. This makes you out of touch and dangerous in my view. The last person to be trusted to carry a firearm near children!

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #159)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:23 AM

161. I'm endangering you and your kids?

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:27 PM

15. This post is a remake of the that shitstain nnadir after Fukishima.

 

Get a clue numbnuts.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:29 PM

17. How many more children would have dies in the crossfire?

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Response to NWHarkness (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:40 PM

44. A logical post on DU?

What is this? o.O

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:30 PM

20. Ugh!

Enough with this idiotic rationalization.

The solution to gun violence isn't to wish that everyone is armed.

Dozens of lives were lost, and all you're concerned about is standing up for gun rights by disguising it as concern for the victims.

Stop the fucking lunacy.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:30 PM

21. I get your point but...'We don't even require that of SEALS!' makes no sense.

And your point sucks, btw.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:30 PM

22. pathetic

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)


Response to WhoIsNumberNone (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:35 PM

32. Who asked for you sympathy?

 

Mob mentality and personal attacks will not dictate where and when I post.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:39 PM

42. No. But eventually, someone might do just that.

There are limits. Truly, there are. You have exceeded one of them today with this post, I believe.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:59 PM

120. Actually, mob mentality most likely IS dictating where and when you post.

Yep.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:31 PM

26. Today is not the day to have to read this kind of nonsense. nt.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:32 PM

27. Is this the right time to post such drivel?

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:33 PM

28. did this school have a resource officer?

because if they did, then they did have one person armed. Not going to do much good when someone enters a classroom and closes the door. Most schools have doors with a small glass window.

This is bigger then arming people. We as a society need to sacrifice for the good of others now.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:34 PM

29. probably not a lot of sympathy for your warped views today . . . .

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:35 PM

30. Yes, more guns is what we need. Puke. nt

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:35 PM

31. Please.

The person likely had an assault weapon, which is pretty much going to obliterate anyone with a regular gun. But go on defending this shit while stepping on the backs of the children gunned down today in cold blood, and countless others gunned down in cold blood again and again and again and again.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:35 PM

33. Utterly predictable, and utterly reprehensible.

Can you not save your nonsense for another time or place?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:37 PM

37. Agreed. It's reprehensible

 

In fact, the very idea is absurd.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:32 PM

109. +1,000. n/t.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:37 PM

34. WELL REGULATED

 

Driving a car is well regulated. Every so often, I need to take an eye test in order to keep being licensed to drive.

I propose annual mental health exams in order to have a license to own a gun.

That would be at least BETTER regulated, though not quite what I would call well regulated.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:37 PM

35. Have you left no sense of decency?

Shakes head.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:40 PM

43. This. nt

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:37 PM

36. The sad thing is you have no clue that is a disgusting, inapporpriate

and sickening post.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:37 PM

38. No. I am perfectly happy with a no gun policy in schools. nt.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:38 PM

39. A jury let this post stand 3-3

Which is probably for the better, because now I can express my scorn for the gun extremists: you are fools, absolute, dangerous fools.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:41 PM

45. Yes. Very sad commentary.

I hope that our administrators have a look, though. Perhaps they'll have a different reaction to this totally inappropriate original post.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:44 PM

48. yes - probably better - let all DUers see this disgusting post

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Response to DrDan (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:47 PM

54. I still won't put anyone on Ignore but TPaine7 is definitely on my internal 'Who Gives A Shit' list.

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Response to randome (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:52 PM

64. not a fan of "ignore" either - have never used it

even though I am on ignore for 5 DUers - mostly (if not all) gun nuts - so who really cares

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:48 PM

57. Yes, let them out themselves

for being nonsympathetic cowards.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:20 PM

86. I say let it stand.

The backdrop of a tragedy facilitated by easy access to guns highlights the absurdity of the "everyone should be packing meme".

By the way, DUers, if you think this OP is loony and callous, you should check out the gungeon some time. The kind of right-wing nonsense that gets posted there daily makes this look mild.

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Response to DanTex (Reply #86)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:28 PM

89. Sometimes it really just is too fucking much...

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:38 PM

40. Fail.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:39 PM

41. A parent with a pistol would have been no match against this guy with his

assault weapon. The parent would be George Zimmerman, not Superman.

Statistically, allowing guns around schools would result in more accidental shootings than it would prevent crimes like today's.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:49 PM

59. Assault weapon?

 

I read that it was a Glock and a Sig Sauer.

Police have recovered two weapons from the suspect, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, the source said. It's unclear if police killed the suspect.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Statistically, I think your estimate of accidental shootings is way off, just like I think your idea of weapon is wrong, or at least premature. Even if it isn't, a pistol is a better weapon against an assault weapon than a fist.

Thanks for making a reasoned argument, however. That's what we Democrats are supposed to be about.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #59)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:54 PM

67. This is what gave me that impression:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/14/white-house-declines-comment-on-gun-policy-in-wake-of-connecticut-shooting/

White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters Friday that the Obama administration would not be engaging in a “policy debate” regarding gun control today, in the wake of an elementary school massacre in Connecticut.

A ban on “assault weapons” remains a long-standing goal of President Barack Obama, but “today is not a day… to engage in the usual policy debates,” said Carney.

SNIP

Under a 1993 state law, possession of “assault weapons” is banned in Connecticut.

“Assault weapons” is a politically-flexible term, often used for semi-automatic weapons that look like soldiers’ personal weapons, such as the M-4 carbine.



Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/14/white-house-declines-comment-on-gun-policy-in-wake-of-connecticut-shooting/#ixzz2F3PcFvss

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #59)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:39 PM

92. Reports are that there was a .223 caliber rifle seized.

And that many rounds of gunshots were heard. It was most likely a rifle with a magazine.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-14/connecticut-shooting-leaves-27-dead-including-pupils-ap.html

The AP reported that the attacker in Connecticut is a 20- year-old man. A law-enforcement official in Washington said that one gun used in the attacks is a .223-caliber rifle, the news service reported. The official spoke to AP on condition of anonymity because the source was not authorized to speak on the record about the developing investigation.


http://johnston.patch.com/articles/27-dead-in-connecticut-school-shooting-aa42c099

The alleged gunman, whom reports have identified as 24-year-old Ryan Lanza, a former Quinnipiac University student, was armed with four guns and a high-powered assault rifle.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #92)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:30 PM

107. Just watched a video interview with a surviving student.

Leaving aside for now the matter of whether conducting such an interview with a child just after such an experience is anything even resembling responsible journalism, the remarkably composed little girl mentioned hearing several loud "booms." I'm not sure if this is conclusive, but fwiw, .223 rifles don't really go "boom," them make more of a loud "crack." The 9mm pistols found, on the other hand, have more of a booming report (and have the magazine capacity to account for the multiple shots). Of course, who knows what word the little girl would have used to describe the sound? I doubt she was trying to be coolly analytic with her choice of terms under such circumstances. I guess we'll know which weapons were actually used soon enough.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #59)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:53 PM

117. The "Sig Sauer" has been called the "Rolls Royce of assault rifles."

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-gun-did-the-sandy-hook-shooter-use-2012-12

The shooter was using one Sig Sauer and one Glock, according to CNN. Glock doesn't make an assault style rifle, but Sig Sauer is the Rolls Royce of assault rifle producers.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #117)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:30 PM

144. A Sig Sauer 9mm handgun is most definitely not the "Rolls Royce of assault rifles."

 

• The gunman was reportedly wearing all black, a mask and a bullet-proof vest while carryingGlock and
Sig Sauer 9mm handgun.
Officials tell CBS News that a .223 Bushmaster rifle was found in his car, and that all of the guns were legally purchased by {name of psycho removed}.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/sandy-hook-shooting-gundman-2012-12


And the Bushmaster, which you might consider an assault rifle, was found in his car.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:43 PM

46. A teacher is a teacher. Not trained to protect

Her/himself from a shooter like this, much less an entire building full of children and other adults.

Add to that other untrained but armed adults running around playing cop and the disaster would have grown by leaps and bounds.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:43 PM

47. Sick--sorry, dude, we're not all primed for combat like you

seem to think we should be.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:45 PM

49. Well using your "logic", if no one was armed, then no one would have got shot.

You make a good argument for banning all guns.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:45 PM

50. That's complete horseshit. Not ONCE has that ever happened, despite C/C in 49 states

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Response to kysrsoze (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:44 PM

132. Is it possible

 

that is is because these mass shooting occur in "no gun" zones?

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:47 PM

52. Yeah, I'd like a gun to be in my child's classroom

Last edited Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

in the custody of someone whose judgement I cannot know or depend on. Will they have the gun strapped to their hip during class time? What happens if that teacher leaves the gun unattended to with curious children around? When does the teacher whip it out for self-protection? Of course they can't do it too late in case a shooter invades. Do they draw the gun if anyone they see has a bulge under their clothes?

I'd never have a single moment of peace during the day.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:47 PM

53. utter self-serving bullshit....

You should be ashamed. I urge you to hide that post and give it some more thought.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:47 PM

55. Or maybe we should just come to the fucking realization

that not everyone should be allowed to carry a weapon of mass destruction.

More guns are not the fucking answer.

EVER.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:48 PM

56. Cheering for more guns while the blood hasn't even dried...

Classy move, pal!

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:49 PM

58. Kindergarten teachers = Navy SEALs, both groups should

be ready to draw their weapons on split-second notice...

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:49 PM

60. Now we have to be friggin Annie Oakley too?

No, thank you. I work with special needs kids, and I have experienced school lockdowns 2x in Florida with armed gunman on campus.

So I would have grab my CP kid out of his wheelchair, carry and run with him, while I am shooting at gunman????? The teacher in the class can just get her gun out of her desk and start shooting with a class of twelve 4 year olds around the room??????

You are INSANE.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #60)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:53 PM

65. I never alert on posts, but I am curious to see if calling me INSANE would be considered out

 

of bounds by one of our "impartial" juries.

LOL

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #65)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:59 PM

71. This is a bad time to post this type of thread

 

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Response to former-republican (Reply #71)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:03 PM

72. Actually, this is the only time this type of thread is allowed in GD, and the adults running into

 

gunfire--disarmed--is part of the story.

Why is a post taking the opposite view perfectly appropriate today, while my view (backed with clear reasoning) is not to be expressed?

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #72)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:12 PM

79. I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you

 

I understand your point and perhaps having an armed guard could have made a difference
to save more lives. People running into gun fire unarmed is suicidal for the most part.

The teachers did what they thought was the right thing at the time.
In my book the teachers are heros.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:50 PM

62. Teacher with a hand gun AGAINST THIS? FOOK OFF

:large

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:51 PM

63. Using this disaster to advance your fucked up agenda

The victims are just props for you. If they weren't, you'd at least wait a respectful period of time before you jumped in.

Asshole.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:20 PM

87. +10,000

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:55 PM

96. +1

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #63)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:21 PM

103. Because the other side of the argument would never do that.

Oh, wait...

Honestly, it's pointless to try to discuss this subject rationally right after such an occurrence. Just look at the board...

That said, venting has it's value.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:53 PM

65. Since we cannot predict which unstable male will open fire, ban men from owning guns.

Then nobody has to run into an assault rifle.

Most Sudafed users will not make meth. But every Sudafed user is treated as a potential meth maker.

Keep guns out of the hands of potential mass murders which are, not coincidentally, MEN.

An ounce of prevention prevents a kilo of meth and a pile of bodies.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:54 PM

68. fucking gross

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #68)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:09 PM

74. More violence. Our country is beyond a joke at the point.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:55 PM

69. Ugh

Sickest thread I have ever seen posted at DU.

By far.

Thanks for the downer.

Don

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:56 PM

70. Shut up

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:04 PM

73. Good thing it just wasn't anyone you know or love who got murdered.

You don't really give a crap, just as long as you weren't personally touched by the gun violence.

So aftraid your Precious will be taken from you.

And that's all that really matters to people like in the end.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #73)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:09 PM

75. I'm glad that, if my assumption is correct, no one you love got murdered either. nt

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #75)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:16 PM

83. I've already had three family members murdered at once, gunned down in cold blood.

I posted about it here, do a search.

May you never know that feeling.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #83)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:28 PM

90. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you find a measure of peace, and I hope that my OP

 

didn't unnecessarily put salt in your wounds.

The OP is actually about the best way, IMO, to make what happened less likely and/or less deadly, at least in some circumstances. I say that not to persuade you, but to explain my motives.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #90)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:11 PM

129. Just three more human souls sacrificied upon the altar of The Sacred Second Amendment.

The words of which have higher meaning for its acolytes than does any human life, other than their own.


The blood of slaughtered innocents is but one more offering to The Gods Of Firearms.


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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:09 PM

76. For all you wannabe Barney Fifes that want to walk around packing heat...

...I would also suggest investing in adult diapers. Because, unless you have combat experience, the diapers will be more useful when some asshole suddenly starts to open fire.

Seriously, a society walking around armed to the teeth will only create more problems.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:11 PM

78. Maybe if EVERYONE were armed EVERYONE would be dead. Wheee!!!!

 

Ban all guns NOW

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:13 PM

81. If the shooter hadn't been able to get a gun ...

...then NO ONE would have needed a gun.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:15 PM

82. You disgust me.

This happened less than five miles from my house, and I can see the hospital where victims were taken from my living room window. You have to be delusional if you think that guns are the solution. Get psychological help; you need it.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:19 PM

84. Are the teachers supposed to be armed security guards?

They'd better get training and a huge pay raise.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:20 PM

85. I am a teacher and I do NOT want armed teachers my building

No. I am sorry. Just no. If I had a gun in this situation and started shooting with all of the chaos, I would have killed even more people. Did you ever see the video from inside Columbine High school? Total chaos. Kids running all over the place, you cannot even tell who the killers were for the most part.

Totally freeper idea. Crazy.

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Response to adigal (Reply #85)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:36 PM

114. Absolutely agree

More innocent people will be killed.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:23 PM

88. Interestingly enough....

In the Tacoma Mall shooting a few years ago, the only person who ended up with life-threatening (and permanently debilitating) injuries was the would-be hero who pulled his firearm and confronted the shooter. Bonus trivia - said Rambo wannabe was actually a self defense instructor. Extra bonus trivia - The guy who talked the shooter down and brought about a peaceful resolution was an unarmed soldier who had recently returned from combat in the M. E.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:35 PM

91. Could there be a program similar to the FFDO's on aircraft in schools?

Training and recurrent is required and a program like this would enhance safety at schools.

Might also create a few jobs.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:47 PM

93. There was a guy with a gun in the crowd when Gabby Giffords was shot.

He almost shot the guy who had taken the gun away from the shooter because he thought THAT guy was the shooter. Arming people is just a way to get more people shot.

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Response to LancetChick (Reply #93)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:14 PM

100. Great example of why the OP's idea is not a good one. Thank you.

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Response to LancetChick (Reply #93)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:22 PM

104. IIRC, he was in a nearby store and had to run to the scene. Also, he never drew his weapon,

 

he simply put his hand on the holstered weapon before correctly accessing the situation.

A police officer would have done exactly what he did. (Well, actually I think if you research you'll find that civilians are less likely to shoot the wrong person than police, so perhaps the cop would have followed through.)

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:48 PM

94. May your God one day soften your cold back heart

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #94)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:18 PM

102. And not my front heart, too?

 

I see nothing cold-hearted about wishing that at least some of those children's protectors had been armed.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #102)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:02 PM

124. Fuck you, simply fuck you.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:52 PM

95. I agree. nt

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:59 PM

97. What a dumb fucking post...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #97)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:33 PM

110. +1,000. n/t.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #97)


Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:02 PM

98. You (and people like you) make me sick.

I hope you never have to feel the anguish that the parents in CT tonight will feel.
The hollowness and cold, ice cold chill that courses through you when you find out that you have lost a child...nevermind that you lost a child to a maniac who EXECUTED THEM WITH A HANDGUN!!!!

FUCK YOU.
Take your gun, shove it straight up your ass and SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER...

My heart and soul bleed today and these are not my children.
My children are in a different school but the same age.

You want to defend guns? Go find some NRA buddies, have a circle jerk after a round of shooting and kindly fuck right off...the rest of the humans on this planet are horrified that your thoughts are drawn to inanimate objects, instruments of death and insane ideas about the value of guns.

I would give up the right of EVERY AMERICAN to have a handgun of ANY kind for just ONE of those 18 children to have ONE more day with their family, ONE more Christmas, ONE more hug, ONE more kiss, ONE more laugh, One more lunch...

DO YOU GET IT YET????? THEY ARE GONE AND THEY ARE GONE IN PART BECAUSE OF GUNS AND THE ABILITY OF LUNATICS TO GET THEM, USE THEM AND KILL WITH THEM...

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Response to Moostache (Reply #98)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:06 PM

126. The schmuck will never get it.

He's beyond hope.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #98)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:16 PM

130. Well Stated n/t

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:09 PM

99. Yes, then could be even MORE dead people when someone shoots the wrong person.

You cannot shoot a gun off in the middle of a group of kids and adults. The more guns there are laying around, the more chances there are that someone gets shot accidentally, that someone uses it in a moment of passion/anger, or that it falls into the wrong hands.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:23 PM

105. Because nobody ever got killed in crossfire...

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:29 PM

106. The petulant implication that twenty-seven dead school children are a price we pay for the 2nd Amend

The petulant implication that twenty-seven dead school children are a price we pay for the 2nd Amendment advertises so much more about your character than you may have initially wanted...

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:32 PM

108. GO. AWAY.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:34 PM

111. You're Blaming The Victims Of This Atrocity. Shame On You. (nt)

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:35 PM

112. So you think having a gun fight in a classroom filled with children is the answer?

You think adding more guns to the mix is the answer?

You think giving a teacher a gun is the answer?

A teacher told my sister as a child she would go to hell if she didn't do her homework. Should she have a gun? Another teacher threw an eraser at one of my kids? Should that one be armed?

I'll never understand why some think more guns is the answer to the gun-craziness.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:36 PM

113. Holy shit. You're serious.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:52 PM

116. Sure let's just arm up our teachers

Then what's your excuse when a Teacher goes berserk and decides to shoot-up the classroom.

The gun problem solution isn't more guns. More guns just means more opportunities to ensure that someone who isn't playing with a full deck or has a gripe against someone else can just use '2nd amendment laws' to deal with their problems.

I have no problems with guns, I come from a family that owns guns. And those that owns make sure they know how to use them and keeps them locked up when not in use.

What's worse with this crime is that the shooter had automatic weapons, someone that a few years ago was not available in this country. But thanks to our congress led by GOP gunnuts, they let the assault weapon ban expire.

I can't say whether or not the ban would have prevented this but if the guy didn't have such highpowered weapons maybe we could have prevented more deaths IF it happened.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:54 PM

118. I work in schools and that would never work to arm teachers because

FUCK YOU!

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:58 PM

119. this video shows a good example of that....

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:00 PM

122. That's three gun-worshippers today

added to my Ignore List. I'm sure you won't be the last.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:01 PM

123. You sicken me.

I question your humanity.

Go ahead and alert. I've gotten one locked today already, I'll go for more, at least when it comes to telling gun nuts just how sickening they really are.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #123)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:50 PM

134. And to keep peddling those pro-NRA talking points on THIS day, of days: your post is SPOT. ON.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:06 PM

127. Starting to get the hint that you're peddling your NRA bullshit on the wrong website?

Take a hint.

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #127)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:22 PM

131. Yeah, Obama and I attend the same NRA meetings. n/t

 

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Response to Electric Monk (Reply #127)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:52 PM

135. "Now I am merely curious just how long I can string you along" <- Another Gungeoneer just told me

this. Yes, our "pro gun progressives"* are just having boatloads of fun talking about how great guns are, even on a day like this.




*( )

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:53 PM

136. Guns do not "do good". Guns are inanimate objects incapable of such things

People do good. And people do bad. Had a person not done bad today, there would have been no reason for people to have done good.

Had the social safety net been strong enough, this man would have received the treatment he needed.

Had gun laws been stricter, red flags would have gone up when he tried to purchase weapons.

Had society's pro-violence meme not been so prevalent, no one would get shot by anyone.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #136)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:23 PM

140. Context. "In the hands of good people" was understood. nt

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #140)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:55 PM

145. Guns do not do good in the hands of good people.

Good people do good things with or without guns.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:05 PM

138. We are now forced to practically strip to get on an airplane. Time for guard shacks at the entrance

to all schools now. No problem, just put up barbed wire fences, cut a cafeteria worker, a couple of teacher's aides, and a secretary or two and strip down kids and parents as they come to school. (Don't forget to vote against the Teacher's Union for decent, let along combat, pay) Hire a trained military returnee/Vet or two from the Middle Eastern Wars of Choice and it's a Full Circle Employment Plan. Before long, we will look just like those we seek to liberate from their domestic terrorists.

May God or Goddess have mercy on our souls. And RIP our grieving families from the latest American terrorist massacre.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:13 PM

139. What a pathetic jury that did not hide this shit....You should be embarrassed

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Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #139)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:47 PM

150. +1 n/t

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:26 PM

142. By this "reasoning," if EVERYONE were armed 24/7, no one would ever get shot...

Or, at the very least, there'd be only one murder in any given situation before all CCW-ers in the immediate area would form a circular firing squad and blast away at the perceived malefactor.

But that's not how reality plays out. Ask cops who've been there, ask combat vets -- there's confusion, unknown situations, multiple sources of fire, no clear lines of sight, etc., etc. Every additional weapon that gets added to these scenarios only jacks up the carnage-factor.

More guns is NEVER the solution.





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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:42 PM

148. arming teachers, a notion so insane on so many levels...

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:47 PM

149. I could just scream when I read posts like this.

That man was not afraid to die. He INTENDED to die. Someone in that state of mind expects to die and will not be deterred by the idea of everyone being armed.

And those guns? Legally owned by a teacher. His mother. Whom he killed first.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #149)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:28 PM

153. The OP was not about deterence. At all. nt

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:48 PM

151. "Oh but what about all the good things Hitler did?"

 

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:50 PM

152. Another sickening, delusional post.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:50 PM

154. What the world needs now is guns sweet guns...

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:51 PM

155. Guns are the problem ... not the solution! n/t

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:53 PM

156. I think that is absolutely the wrong way to respond to this

I don't want guns in schools. I don't want guns in the hands of the mentally ill. I don't want guns that can shoot a hundred rounds in a minute or two.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:54 PM

157. It's disturbing that such a disgusting post is on the "greatest" page. I wish I could unrec this

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Response to myrna minx (Reply #157)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:22 PM

158. You can simply put me on ignore or hide this OP.

 

I actually meant no offense; my views simply differ from yours. Simply put, if I had a child who I love in that classroom, I would have preferred that the teachers were armed.

If that offends you, it's not due to malice on my part.

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Response to TPaine7 (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:06 PM

160. faster, pussycat

make my day

what are the real results of more guns?
is that in dispute?

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