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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:45 AM

Too many people on here are behaving as if Scott Brown is Superman and Elizabeth Warren is the only

supply of kryptonite on planet earth. Brown is a decent politician who, yes, won a special election in 2010. He won 52 to 47. He won against a candidate who campaigned fairly lackadasicaly and in the worst year for Democrats since the late 1920's. So what happened in 2012. Incumbent Brown ran against a political neophite and lost 53 to 46. Warren isn't the Harlem Globetrotters of politics. She is a good first time candidate. She won for the same reason that the next person to run against him for Senate will likely win. Massachusetts is a Democratic state and doesn't want someone who thinks Scalia is a great justice representing them in the Senate. In 2010 he could pretend he would go to the Senate and vote for Elena Kagan, vote for unemployment extensions, and in general act like a Democrat in the Senate. Instead he went to the Senate and did none of those things. Massachusetts then threw him out. The same thing is quite likely to happen to him again in 2013.

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Too many people on here are behaving as if Scott Brown is Superman and Elizabeth Warren is the only (Original post)
dsc Dec 2012 OP
Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #1
Suich Dec 2012 #2
patrice Dec 2012 #3
freshwest Dec 2012 #4
patrice Dec 2012 #8
freshwest Dec 2012 #12
JI7 Dec 2012 #16
freshwest Dec 2012 #23
SunSeeker Dec 2012 #10
Isoldeblue Dec 2012 #6
teamster633 Dec 2012 #5
xxqqqzme Dec 2012 #14
Jim Lane Dec 2012 #17
xxqqqzme Dec 2012 #25
FreeBC Dec 2012 #7
JohnnyRingo Dec 2012 #9
King_Klonopin Dec 2012 #11
CTyankee Dec 2012 #28
King_Klonopin Dec 2012 #29
CTyankee Dec 2012 #30
Jennicut Dec 2012 #34
CTyankee Dec 2012 #38
bluestate10 Dec 2012 #36
hfojvt Dec 2012 #13
Arkana Dec 2012 #18
hfojvt Dec 2012 #22
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #15
H2O Man Dec 2012 #19
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #20
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #21
stevenleser Dec 2012 #24
Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #26
WillyT Dec 2012 #27
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #31
LWolf Dec 2012 #32
Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #33
bluestate10 Dec 2012 #35
dsc Dec 2012 #37

Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:59 AM

1. sweet post, thanks.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:25 AM

2. I agree.

I don't understand the push to appoint Kerry as SOS by the Republicans. They seem to feel the open Senate seat would automatically be a shoo-in for Brown. Makes no sense to me.

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Response to Suich (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:36 AM

3. I'm all excited to maybe see what kind of young talent they have on the back bench

there in the Bay State.

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Response to patrice (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:48 AM

4. Brown was the Koch young talent on the bench and says he's not done. I suspect he'll run again.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:07 AM

8. I'm not sure why people seem to think that JOHN f-ing KERRY has no "machine" in that state.

Like he's some kind of newbie.

And also like Romney didn't lose horribly, not to mention Warren's win.

Not saying it won't be hard work, just that whoever the opposition is, if we demonstrated anything at all this year, it is that money doesn't necessary buy you an election.

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Response to patrice (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:40 AM

12. Not concerned about Kerry losing his seat to Scott. Just saying if he leaves it, the Koches have

Brown in their pocket. I haven't read one thing that indicates Kerry wants to leave for SoS. And I don't think Brown was any good, despite some favorable reports here at DU. He definitely proved he was not fit to be in office with his campaign.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:07 AM

16. he would not be in consideration for sos if he didnt want it

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Response to JI7 (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:49 PM

23. I've only heard the media speculation here at DU, do you have a link about his wanting it?

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Response to patrice (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:10 AM

10. Lawrence O'Donnell thinks Ed Markey will run for the seat. Not young, but definitely talent!

And Lawrence pointed out that Ed Markey has a $3 million war chest. That makes me feel a wee bit better. Still, Brown has a lot of money and is very slick. Lawrence showed a clip of Brown from today almost giddy over the thought of running again. This whole thing makes me queasy. Dems are so notorious at not showing up for special elections (as this would be) and midterms.

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Response to Suich (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:55 AM

6. Add this to the long list of right wingers

making zero sense on soooooooo many different issues over the past few years! They constantly over-reach and do things completely against the wishes of the people. Ideological zealots seldom make sense.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 02:53 AM

5. Brown ran as an incumbent with an endless supply of money behind him.

Understandably, he underestimated Warren's chances of winning and, he made a few mistakes. None of those mistakes were irretrievable, though. In a horrible year for Cons, he still won 46% of the vote. Put another way, a lot of people who voted for Obama still voted for Brown!?! I was born in Massachusetts. My mom still lives there. I live no more than 20 miles from the northern border. Brown carpet-bombed the state (and my state, too) with ads on the radio and on TV for at least 10 months. Anyone who endured that is in no mood for giving him an opportunity to demonstrate how he has learned his lessons and just wants another chance to serve the people of Massachusetts as a voice of moderation. He certainly is the worst sort of scum but, he is slick and, he would still have a ton of money behind him. There is no good reason to take a chance on putting him back into the Senate just as we are finally exorcising the abomination of his sitting in Teddy's seat.

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Response to teamster633 (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:09 AM

14. IF Kerry's seat is vacated,

does Warren then become the senior Senator?

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Response to xxqqqzme (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:21 AM

17. Yes, unless Gov. Patrick appoints Paul Kirk again

Kirk was the appointee who held the seat for a few months between Kennedy's death and Brown's election. If he followed Kerry anytime soon, the seniority he gained in his prior service would count, and he would be the senior Senator.

If Patrick appoints someone who's never served in the Senate, then Warren is the senior Senator, but she loses that status if Brown wins the ensuing special election.

As a practical matter, being the senior Senator is no big deal, anyway.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:28 AM

25. Thanks for the clarification.

Curiosity calmed.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:02 AM

7. Some of us care about government more than politics

 

I don't give a damn about Warren the candidate. I care about Warren the Senator.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:08 AM

9. I suppose it could be argued that the Tea Party phenom...

...was a fad of 2010 and now lacks the momentum of it's heyday during Glenn Beck's peak.

I've noticed most of the zealous 'baggers I know have quieted down, and I haven't heard of a rally in years. Perhaps it has run it's course, and candidates like Brown is yesterday's news.

I know if my congressman ran on gridlock instead of bringing home pork for his district, he'd be pretty weak tea by now. Maybe Tea Baggers are sick of watching their property taxes rise to keep federal spending down. They might be dumb, but they aren't stupid.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:36 AM

11. If you live in Massachusetts

then the notion of having to be subjected to another Scotty Brown
campaign of blatant lies, pretenses and pure bullshit is too much to
stomach.

But, I suppose, it's inevitable. If not another Senate run, then he
would probably try running for state Rep. or (more likely) the
governor's office.

We will never be rid of this tool, I'm afraid.

edit to add: AND it will cost me another $100 for a campaign
contribution to whomever the Democrat will be !

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Response to King_Klonopin (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:23 AM

28. then you must have some sympathy for us nutmeggers here in CT!

We had to put up with Linda McMahon twice! Pure torture, I tell ya!

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:39 AM

29. Not to mention Joementum Leiberman, another creep that won't go away.

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Response to King_Klonopin (Reply #29)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:37 AM

30. Nooo...he's gone from CT I hope. He doesn't hang out here any more.

He'll continue to cash in with some kind of cushy job in D.C. as a big lobbyist. Let him go. Just don't show up in our state anymore, Joe.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:44 AM

34. He is too old to run for anything else again. He is done.

We have two great Senators now. Chris Murphy was on Rachel Maddow last night and I am so happy it was him and not Jomentum talking about Newtown.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:18 PM

38. Isn't it great, Jen? I couldn't be happier!

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Response to King_Klonopin (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:27 AM

36. Yeah. $100 is going to do a lot in a race that will cost tens of millions.

I live in Massachusetts and don't look forward to another tough election fight, we have had too many of late. The critical measure here will be who democratic primary voters choose, if we get another Martha Coakley, we are doomed out of the gate. The democratic primary electorate leans more Left than the democratic general voters, so the primary choice is critical to party unity and a good fight. Brown will trot out turncoats like Ray Flynn, a failed south shore candidate for in 2010 and a washed up pol from the Worcester area to try to peel of democratic and independent voters, those efforts will need to be countered by the democratic nominee.

Flynn is particular makes my blood boil. Flynn tries to pass Brown off as bipartisan. The democratic nominee must hit Brown and Flynn hard with the abundant evidence that Brown has been part and parcel of the republican obstructionist machine in Congress and that Brown is largely beholden to southern republicans who Massachusetts voters have no logical cultural or economic reason to embrace.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 03:45 AM

13. uh, Superman is part of the Justice League, one of the good guys

Brown is more like Lex Luthor or maybe Vincent Von Doom, only slightly better looking.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:23 AM

18. That's VICTOR von Doom.

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Response to Arkana (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:05 PM

22. whoops

I am used to calling him Dr.

But Stan Lee himself was the one who called Bruce Banner - Robert.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:29 AM

15. And that Obama should only pick cabinet positions out of spite... nt

 

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:34 AM

19. Recommended.

Likewise, too many people here have no concept of what the credentials for Secretary of State should be.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:36 AM

20. This.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:46 AM

21. I think there can be some grey area between Superman and unelectable

MA Dems having to run another campaign against him makes me nervous. I honestly am not sure what the outcome will be. All we can do is fight again.

I would like to see Mike Capuano in the Senate.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:51 PM

24. I'm exactly where you are on this I think. I think there is a 67% chance we can beat Brown

The problem is, why take a 33% chance of failure with something you already have?

I'll fight that fight if Kerry is the next SOS, but a bit of angst is understandable. Every senate seat is precious at this point.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:37 AM

26. There is no doubt Brown is probably as electable as it gets in MA...

But he didn't lose solely because of Elizabeth Warren - he lost because voters there rejected him. They didn't like him. They tried him out and they decided he wasn't someone who shared their values. That is unlikely to change in the next few months. Now, had this been any other state other than Massachusetts - had it been, say, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin, I'd be more worried. But I have faith Democrats will take this race a bit more seriously than in 2010 and we'll hold on to the seat.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:52 AM

27. K & R !!!


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Response to dsc (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:41 AM

31. It's interesting: we always complain about Democrats being cowards and not standing up for what we

believe in.

Now we see that a Republicans was soundly defeated by an upstart politician and a great candidate, Liz Warren. If Scott Brown was such a good candidate, why did he lose? The bigger question is why do Democrats have this inferiority complex? Why are we such cowards? That's the question.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:40 AM

32. "decent politician" is an oxymoron.

I don't consider Scott Brown to be "decent" in any way.

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:43 AM

33. The problem is that he has the machinery in place while anyone just starting up

for a race now is at a disadvantage.

It isn't that he is unbeatable. It is simply the logistics of a Senate race held on very short notice.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:06 AM

35. I know for a fact that Deval Patrick never shut down his 2010 Gubernatorial campaign machinery.

Patrick can have a campaign up and running within a week. Patrick didn't shut his operation down because he used it to help him govern the state, similar to what Obama is trying now for the country. Patrick helped Warren mightily during her race, unlike Coakley, who largely sidelined Patrick.

The result in Massachusetts will depend on who democrats pick if Kerry vacates. Patrick can beat Brown because Patrick is an aggressive campaigner who sounds the right notes, has been a wonderful Governor and polls well in every part of the state, not losing a lot of votes to Brown in the densely populated and moderate leaning central part of the state that contains the massive Middlesex and Worcester counties. I am not sure Mike Capuano can beat Brown in a statewide race. Ted Kennedy Jr can likely beat Brown in a statewide race if he gets out and campaign hard. I am not sure that Vicki Kennedy can beat Brown, but she is a real wild card and unknown, if she campaigns hard and hits the right campaign strategy notes, her intelligence, education, pedigree, looks and being the wife of Ted will give her an advantage. Regardless of who runs, Patrick will be the king maker and the nominee needs to work closely with Patrick if that person expects to win.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:38 AM

37. In fairness to Coaxley

Patrick's numbers weren't all that awesome when she ran so sidelining him wasn't the totally stupid move it would be now.

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