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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:11 AM

Right-to-Work Flaw = Governor, Republican legislators had not reviewed law = "epic incompetence"



Analysis of Flawed Right to Work Legislation Shows Governor, Republican Legislators, Had Never Reviewed Language Prior to Signing it Into Law

http://www.senatedems.com/news/article/analysis-of-flawed-right-to-work-legislation-shows-governor-republican-legislators-had-never-reviewed-language-prior-to-signing-it-into-law

Lansing – Less than 24 hours after Governor Snyder signed his damaging “Right to Work” legislation into law, analysis shows that the flawed legislation may not even have the result the Governor claimed it would, raising serious questions about whether the Republican leadership even read the language of the bills before voting it through and signing it into law.

“It's become increasingly clear that the Governor presented the legislature with bills written by out-of-state extremists who had no understanding of Michigan's constitution or how our laws apply to Michigan workers,” said Senate Democratic Leader Gretchen Whitmer. “This is what happens when the Governor does an 11th hour about face in a lame duck session showing utter contempt for our people by cutting out all public input, scrutiny and debate. That isn't leadership, it's epic incompetence .”

Reports today show that HB 4003, which the Governor said would provide “Right to Work” type policies for public employees in Michigan, could not be implemented as intended as the Michigan Constitution gives clear authority to the Civil Service Commission over conditions of employment for the state's workforce. Experts have suggested today only a vote of the Civil Service Commission could enact Right to Work policies for state workers.

“The public was not given an opportunity to read these bills, legislators were not given an opportunity to read these bills, and we now know that the Governor himself either didn't read or didn't understand these bills himself,” said Senator Bert Johnson (D – Detroit). “This process has been a complete affront to Democracy from the start and was nothing more than a political gift to the Koch Brothers and ALEC who bought and paid for this legislation.”

A series of questions have been raised in recent days over the legality of the “Right to Work” legislation as well as the process in which it passed. A lawsuit has already been filed against the Michigan House of Representatives for violating the Open Meetings Act as these bills were passed while the public was illegally locked out of the State Capitol and additional legal challenges are expected in the coming days.



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Reply Right-to-Work Flaw = Governor, Republican legislators had not reviewed law = "epic incompetence" (Original post)
Coyotl Dec 2012 OP
gollygee Dec 2012 #1
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #39
Scuba Dec 2012 #2
Coyotl Dec 2012 #5
alp227 Dec 2012 #40
Coyotl Dec 2012 #42
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #50
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2012 #78
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #3
Rambis Dec 2012 #4
deutsey Dec 2012 #53
freshwest Dec 2012 #83
Rambis Dec 2012 #109
Berlum Dec 2012 #6
Coyotl Dec 2012 #12
Tippy Dec 2012 #7
Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #8
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #25
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #9
LaydeeBug Dec 2012 #34
yellerpup Dec 2012 #10
CrispyQ Dec 2012 #11
sendero Dec 2012 #47
Coyotl Dec 2012 #48
CrispyQ Dec 2012 #104
mountain grammy Dec 2012 #13
WillyT Dec 2012 #14
John2 Dec 2012 #15
Coyotl Dec 2012 #16
blue_heron Dec 2012 #17
Smilo Dec 2012 #18
barbtries Dec 2012 #19
The Wielding Truth Dec 2012 #20
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #21
leeroysphitz Dec 2012 #22
Sheepshank Dec 2012 #23
Ccarmona Dec 2012 #24
Coyotl Dec 2012 #35
catbyte Dec 2012 #51
Coyotl Dec 2012 #67
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #74
Coyotl Dec 2012 #75
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #94
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #81
Coyotl Dec 2012 #82
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #84
bread_and_roses Dec 2012 #64
Coyotl Dec 2012 #68
gollygee Dec 2012 #110
Coyotl Dec 2012 #113
Squinch Dec 2012 #88
Coyotl Dec 2012 #90
Squinch Dec 2012 #91
Coyotl Dec 2012 #115
Squinch Dec 2012 #116
SharonAnn Dec 2012 #95
fasttense Dec 2012 #105
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #114
DJ13 Dec 2012 #54
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #55
tblue37 Dec 2012 #26
tosh Dec 2012 #27
Beartracks Dec 2012 #28
Squinch Dec 2012 #29
Jakes Progress Dec 2012 #30
underoath Dec 2012 #31
Coyotl Dec 2012 #38
FarCenter Dec 2012 #32
UCmeNdc Dec 2012 #33
Populist_Prole Dec 2012 #36
sheshe2 Dec 2012 #37
jerseyjack Dec 2012 #41
HankyDub Dec 2012 #43
alfredo Dec 2012 #46
alfredo Dec 2012 #44
another_liberal Dec 2012 #45
AzDar Dec 2012 #49
veganlush Dec 2012 #52
Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2012 #56
cui bono Dec 2012 #57
Coyotl Dec 2012 #58
Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2012 #59
cui bono Dec 2012 #62
Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2012 #87
midnight Dec 2012 #60
Bozita Dec 2012 #61
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #63
SoapBox Dec 2012 #65
Cha Dec 2012 #66
Coyotl Dec 2012 #71
Cha Dec 2012 #72
Coyotl Dec 2012 #73
Cha Dec 2012 #80
Coyotl Dec 2012 #86
DallasNE Dec 2012 #69
0rganism Dec 2012 #70
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2012 #76
DirkGently Dec 2012 #77
pipewrench Dec 2012 #79
Festivito Dec 2012 #85
Jim__ Dec 2012 #89
midnight Dec 2012 #92
Politicub Dec 2012 #93
upi402 Dec 2012 #97
Politicub Dec 2012 #99
TheProgressive Dec 2012 #96
Politicub Dec 2012 #100
ChristineIAm Dec 2012 #98
blackspade Dec 2012 #101
defacto7 Dec 2012 #102
defacto7 Dec 2012 #103
Euphoria Dec 2012 #106
Coyotl Dec 2012 #108
yortsed snacilbuper Dec 2012 #107
CarmanK Dec 2012 #111
Coyotl Dec 2012 #112

Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:15 AM

1. This needs a kick

and much attention

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Response to gollygee (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:38 PM

39. Oh, boy. Ed is going to have a field day!!! Wonder what Rachel and Larry will say?

I know that Martin and Rev. Al will have me ROFLOL!!!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:16 AM

2. I can just picture the Koch brother's lawyers who wrote the bill standing on the carpet.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:19 AM

5. This is an ALEC "model" bill, almost word-for-word.

DeVos Sr. is one of the founders of ALEC.



http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Richard_DeVos

Richard DeVos, Sr. co-founded Amway Corp. and is owner of the Orlando Magic, NBA franchise. DeVos and wife Helen run the Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation, a conservative foundation and grant making body formed in 1970. He served as the finance chairman of the Republican National Committee. According to Forbes, he is the 60th richest person in the U.S. with US$5 billion in 2012.
Money to conservative causes

He has been associated with various Christian and conservative organizatons, such as the Council for National Policy, the Free Congress Foundation, and the Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy. His grantmaking to foundations reflects these conservative Christian affiliations.

According to FEC records, Richard DeVos gave $2 million to the conservative Progress for America Voter Fund.

Between 1999 and 2001 the Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation donated $12,159,101 to conservative groups such as Focus on the Family, the State Policy Network, and the Intercollegiate Studies Institute.
Campaign Contributions

DeVos and wife Helen donated the maximum $2,500 to Newt Gingrich's bid for the 2012 GOP Presidential nomination. They also donated $5,500 to his American Solutions PAC.

Devos is the only ''Forbes'' 400 member to contribute to Rick Santorum's bid for office. He donated the maximum $2,500 in July.
Recognition

DeVos was acknowledged at the privately held Koch seminar in June 2011 in Vail, Colorado for donating at least $1 million to Koch-related causes.

In 1993, ALEC gave its "Adam Smith Free Enterprise Award" to billionaire Richard DeVos, a leading proponent and financier of school privatization efforts.

About ALEC
ALEC is a corporate bill mill. It is not just a lobby or a front group; it is much more powerful than that. Through ALEC, corporations hand state legislators their wishlists to benefit their bottom line. Corporations fund almost all of ALEC's operations. They pay for a seat on ALEC task forces where corporate lobbyists and special interest reps vote with elected officials to approve “model” bills. Learn more at the Center for Media and Democracy's ALECexposed.org, and check out breaking news on our PRWatch.org site.



Family Ties

Richard DeVos's son Dick DeVos was an unsuccessful GOP candidate for Michigan Governor in 2006. Dick is now president of Amway. He is married to Betsy DeVos, the daughter of Elsa Prince Broekhuizen who contributed $450,000 toward the 2008 effort to ban same-sex marriages in California. Betsy is the sister of Erik Prince who is the founder of private military corporation Blackwater USA.


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Response to Coyotl (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:48 PM

40. An awkward situation happened in Florida with an ALEC model bill...

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Response to alp227 (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:01 PM

42. Convicted by self! LOL.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:15 PM

50. +1

 

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:26 PM

78. Earn your benefits the Scamway way.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:16 AM

3. K&R nt

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:18 AM

4. Attack! Attack! Attack!

keep it coming Dems get this pile scooped up and disposed of.

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Response to Rambis (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:38 PM

53. Yep...go after them with both barrels!

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Response to Rambis (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:01 PM

83. Yeah! The only thing they ever read was the paycheck from the Koch brothers.

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Response to Rambis (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:48 AM

109. Bigger issue for the rethugs going forward is- "You can't trust a word they say"

No matter what they promise to do you can't trust them to keep their word. Look at Michigan!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:20 AM

6. This what happens when you let the 1% Republican Plutocrats dictate law

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Response to Berlum (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:37 AM

12. The Plutocrats are not 1% of the population. Look at the wealth pyramid. 0.001%

The top 5% hold 3/4 of assets, the top 10% represent half the income and 3/8ths of all consumer spending. The remainder of the 130 million person U.S. workforce own very little by comparison. The top 20% are spending. Incomes of $100,000 are buying new rides.



So, 1% of the workforce is 1.3 million. 1% of that 1% is still 13,000. Given 1,300 Plutocrats, any more would defy the definition, we are talking about 0.001% or

The one one-thousandth of one percent.

Globally, there are under 3,000 half-billionaires. To put billionaire in perspective, the auther of Harry Potter became a billionaire. The 1/1,000th of 1% is the half-billionaire club.



Subscribe to the weekly Too Much
http://toomuchonline.org/tag/global-wealth-distribution/

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:22 AM

7. I hope they are able to turn this over

Voters should be angry all over the country,cramming this through, and signing it into law..Is this even legal?

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:25 AM

8. K and R for the Koch brothers

And their useful idiots from the Cave.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:37 AM

25. +1

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:30 AM

9. Since I can't kick a Koch brother I will kick this instead

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Response to DonRedwood (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:26 PM

34. ^^^ this ^^^ nt

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:31 AM

10. Kick! n/t

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:34 AM

11. Bravo!!

“It's become increasingly clear that the Governor presented the legislature with bills written by out-of-state extremists who had no understanding of Michigan's constitution or how our laws apply to Michigan workers,” said Senate Democratic Leader Gretchen Whitmer. “This is what happens when the Governor does an 11th hour about face in a lame duck session showing utter contempt for our people by cutting out all public input, scrutiny and debate. That isn't leadership, it's epic incompetence .”


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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:45 PM

47. If more Democrats.

.... would talk like this one, we'd start getting some respect.

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Response to sendero (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:53 PM

48. Calling out the absurditiy and stupidity is a great deterrent to future absurdity.

Sadly, you can't fix stupid.
Happily, you can suppress it.

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Response to sendero (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:51 AM

104. Hell yes, we would!

Fire up the base with fighting words & then follow through with liberal policy. If your constituents knew you were fighting for them, they would have your back.

The internet makes it so easy to send your comments to your senators/reps. As much time as people spend on the internet, they should also make time to communicate their comments to their elected officials. I write one letter a week. Sometimes it is about a specific issue, sometimes it is more general, but I write it & then I email it to all three.

The biggest time factor is writing one letter.

DO IT!

Write the one fucking letter a week about something you care about & send it to your senators & rep. It doesn't have to be long! It just has to state what you feel. Scribble it out while you watch old House re-runs. Then type it up the next day & in five minutes, fire it off to your 2 Senators & 1 Representative.

Make it routine.

Do it weekly.

Pass it on.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:43 AM

13. Enough money to influence half of the sinking middle class

to kill the other half, just metaphorically speaking for now. How that for divisiveness, Governor Snyder, you lying sack of shit?

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:44 AM

14. HUGE K & R !!!



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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:47 AM

15. So why

 

can't the Governor be removed from office, if this law turns out to be Unconstitutional? Is there any way he can be impeached, if there is evidence, the Governor was influence by the Koch brothers or certain individuals? What I mean is, wasn't he elected to serve the people of MIchigan, and not the interests of an individual or corporation? Is that similar to a bribe?

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Response to John2 (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:51 AM

16. The Governor can be recalled, likewise with Senators and Reps. One recall effort already happened

Last edited Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:25 PM - Edit history (1)

to the Governor, and they did not obtain all the signatures required, stopping the campaign when Walker won his re-election. That might change now, with a renewed recall. A better solution will be a ballot initiative to fix the law to something the people will like.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:01 AM

17. hahahaha....maybe their stupidity

will trip them up in the long run! What an epic fail, if they didn't read it, and it helps it get overturned!

They know they didn't have the public on their side, or they wouldn't have pushed it through the way they did. We need to focus on getting rid of ALEC and all their legislation!!!!!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:08 AM

18. My God what lengths the puppets will go to

to pander to the likes of the Kochs and ALEC.

Can this law be repealed while Snyder is still in office, or do we have to wait for him to be gone?

K&R

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:14 AM

19. this is good news

it looks like it will not work.

tactics like this should never work.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:21 AM

20. So the bill is illegal, and it's another attempt by Republicans to ignore state law and steal power.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:22 AM

21. awesome ...love it when they make such big mistakes

K & R

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:26 AM

22. Fuckers.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:28 AM

23. So....who or what agency takes this to court?

The bill has made my heart very heavy. Michigan legislators has done soe much public damage lately, I keep wondering when it will all end?

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:33 AM

24. The Koch's

won't be happy until everyone is working for them at $2 an hour, they have ALL of the country's wealth, and we have to buy all of our necessities from their company store. Their idea of nirvana is taking us back to the 1800s. Assholes!!!

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Response to Ccarmona (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:34 PM

35. What purpose does such hyperbole serve. Shouldn't one side remain reasonable

and critical reasoning say you are way off base. Get real, please. There is plenty of real to complain about.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:28 PM

51. Are you joking, Coyotl?

What Ccarmona wrote is a Koch boy wet dream. How do you reason with evil? Didn't Neville Chamberlain try that in the 1930's?

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Response to catbyte (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:16 PM

67. NO

$2 an hour is a joke though

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #67)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:57 PM

74. It's true Kochs and DeVos consider $2/hr a joke...

Ideally, they'd prefer $2/day....and no social safety net. Modern day robber barons, they are.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #74)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:18 PM

75. Meanwhile in the real world, Koch Industries is a big company paying lots of people real wages

That's what a major multi-national corporation does to enrich its owners!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #75)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:35 PM

94. We can see from the candidates and legislation they support...

what they think of their workers, and the working class in general. If they could slash their labor costs, and their taxes that support the social safety net they'd do it in a heartbeat... because gosh darn it, a billionaire just needs more money.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:33 PM

81. Apparently he makes a habit of policing similar thoughts and words.

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #81)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:58 PM

82. Reality is still consensual, not?

Some thoughts are really out there, off the consensual scale. Does that mean they should be ignored? NOT!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #82)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:03 PM

84. Can you rephrase that so it's an actual question/sentence that make sense?

I really have no idea what you're asking me or even if you are asking me anything at all. Really.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:38 PM

64. Off base? I'd say s/he's spot on target

I've been saying for years the Oligarchs won't be happy till we're living in the Company Barracks and buying our few necessities at the Company Store. And I'm stone cold serious. I can't imagine what data you're looking at that tells you s/he's "off-base." Just look at the transfers of wealth, the stagnation of wages, the decline in benefits, the raising of SS age, the increasing financial and retirement INsecurity of the working class (by which I mean anyone who is not independently wealth - the "middle class" - ha! That means you are maybe a few months or a few weeks away from destitution).

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Response to bread_and_roses (Reply #64)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:17 PM

68. At $2 an hour, I don't think so. That's hyperbole.

Hyperbole is hyperbole.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #68)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:51 AM

110. I have a family member who is an economist

who follows this Chicago School of Economics that all these neo-cons follow. He's told me there should be no "minimum wage" because the FREE MARKET should decide wages, and we have to be able to compete with China and other countries, and I asked him what wage he thought our workers would have to be at to compete with China. Guess what he suggested?

It isn't hyperbole.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #110)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:53 AM

113. "The Koch's won't be happy until everyone is working for them at $2 an hour" is hyperbole.

I rest my case!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #35)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:30 PM

88. I truly don't think that is hyperbole. What motive do these guys have except to make the rest of us

poor and themselves rich? Do you think they'd stop if they thought they could get us all down to $2 and a company store? I don't.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #88)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:53 PM

90. They own a giant corporation that pays people lots of money to make them rich

You don't run a multinational corporation with $2 an hour staff, sorry. I'm sure they understand complex social and business hierarchies very well. They have many CEOs, no doubt.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #90)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:03 PM

91. And yet they are paying millions to prevent wide swaths of people from making a living wage.

It's a sport.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #91)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:54 AM

115. You are wrong. This is a war on the political opposition. This is an attack on the Dem base.

And conflating the issue with pay rates is to ignore the real war here, for political control.

So, this hyperbole has some basis, but it distracts from the real situation, an effort to deprive political opponents of the power to amass funds and put up a political fight. Any drop in union income is seen as weakening their political opposition.

This is brute abuse of power to sustain political power.

And remember, sport often involves going out and killing something! These Rs are democracy hunters!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #115)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:19 PM

116. No, I'm not wrong. It's also a demolition of the middle class and a theft of income

from the vast majority of Americans.

They want the political control for the purpose of amassing more wealth. At the expense of everyone else.

And, no, sport usually doesn't involve going out and killing something.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #90)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:52 PM

95. They really only need a relative few high-paid workers with tax avoidance skills, etc. The rest of

The rest of their workers, the 98% should be paid as little as possible. And if you change all the laws, that could be $2 a day.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #90)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:00 AM

105. Seems Wal-Mart runs their corporation with

factories that pay $35 a month (and then the factories burn down) and clerks who get minimum wage.

They have a very tiny minority of people who earn good salaries. Paying half the population to kill the other half? More like paying 10% of the population to kill the other 80%.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #90)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:37 AM

114. There are giant corporations paying far LESS overseas

and if you think they wouldn't pay those scum wages here if they could get away with it, you DON'T understand modern corporate business methods.

There's a class war on.

One side wants everyone on the other side to starve and beg and wants to take away everything they own or dream of so they have nothing left to fight with or for. But THEY want to earn exhorbitant bonuses, have excellent health care and perversely-funded retirements.

The other side just wants to make a decent wage, have some health care and adequate retirement, doesn't want to take everything from the other side.

We see which side you defend here. We do.



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Response to Ccarmona (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:53 PM

54. Those two idiotic rich shitheads will be dead of old age long before thats a reality

Its a shame they cant be happy in their remaining years just being stinking rich, but no, they arent happy unless they make everyone else miserable.

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Response to Ccarmona (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:15 PM

55. Well said!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:45 AM

26. KnR. nt

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:51 AM

27. ...

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:51 AM

28. Ideologues are easily manipulated.

Republicans are so simplistic. They voted for the bill either because A) Democrats were against it, or B) they were told to do so.

------------

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:52 AM

29. Yay! nt

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:55 AM

30. republicans and the dolts who vote for them are idiots.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:00 PM

31. wtf is up with politicians, federal and local, that do not read bills they pass!!??!?!?!?!

 

This happens all the time and no one really says shit about it.


lets just pass the bill and see what happens. you will see that it is good for you!


why not read it before you pass it? oh you don't have time for that? you must pass it right away?


Politicians are a different breed. period.

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Response to underoath (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:37 PM

38. Most do, and likely write them too with help from collegues, advisors, interest groups, citizens

Especially at the State level. Most bills are scrutinized word-by-word by lawmakers and other legal staff to be certain they conform with the full body of existing law.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:10 PM

32. The only question is whether it applies to the 35,000 state workers -- not to the private sector

Right-to-work Michigan: Critics question whether law affects 35K state employees

LANSING — The next battle over right-to-work may be over whether 35,000 unionized state employees in Michigan are exempted from the new laws.

At issue is whether the Michigan Civil Service Commission, which is authorized by the state constitution to establish workplace rules and wages for state employees, is subject to the laws.

The administration of Gov. Rick Snyder, who signed the legislation into law Tuesday, has maintained the law does apply to state workers. But two commission officials and a state constitutional expert disagree. The legislation made Michigan the 24th state to adopt right-to-work laws, which makes it illegal to require most public and private employees to pay union dues as a condition of employment.

“It amazes that me that people are going around saying this affects state employees,” said Richard McLellan, a Republican attorney and a Lansing-based expert in constitutional law. “Under the state constitution, the Civil Service Commission has plenary power over state employees. The Legislature has no power.”


http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20121212/NEWS01/312120054/Right-work-Michigan-Critics-question-whether-law-affects-35K-state-employees?odyssey=nav%7Chead

So the right-to-work law would apply to private sector workers. It's unclear whether it applies to employees of school districts and municipalities?

If this is true, it only will deepen the view that public sector workers have privileges that other workers don't have and fuel the Tea Party even more.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:12 PM

33. The law is illegal.......?

Talk about incompetent leadership!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:36 PM

36. Kicked

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:37 PM

37. Act in Haste...Repent at Leisure

Not that they will ever Repent!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:56 PM

41. This would have better been exposed when the new legislature takes office.

 

Current Repukes have time to correct and vote again.

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Response to jerseyjack (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:26 PM

43. right, I'm thinking SHHHH

 

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Response to jerseyjack (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:33 PM

46. No, those guys are thinking of getting cushy jobs for the industries they worked for

while in office.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:28 PM

44. KNR

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:31 PM

45. Snyder heard his masters' voices . . .

Snyder heard his masters' voices, and he acted accordingly.

"Let us pray," saith the governor of Michigan, "May the Koch brothers' will be done, here just as it is in Texas!"

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:57 PM

49. K & R

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:37 PM

52. Why are we warning them

while they still have time to fix it and ram it through?

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:18 PM

56. yet THEY are the ones endlessly yammering about "freedom" and "democracy"?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #56)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:46 PM

57. You don't really think they believe what they say do you?



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Response to cui bono (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:11 PM

58. That might well be the best take-away from this experience, understanding the depth of deception

that is involved in their pretense, that the interests of the 1% are the interests of the majority.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:23 PM

59. No

it was a rhetorical question

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:52 PM

62. Okay good.

I have a friend who always seems surprised by what the RW says and their hypocrisy and I always have to remind him that they don't mean what they say, it's not really hypocrisy, it's just flat out lying and deception.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #62)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:16 PM

87. I'm scared and sad at the fact that so many people take them so seriously

while relentlessly mocking and questioning anything Democrats say or do.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:32 PM

60. So can this fraud be stopped?

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:51 PM

61. K&R ... Bigtime!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:37 PM

63. Not only was it written out of state, it was a carbon copy

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:13 PM

65. Super kick!

...it's criminal.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:13 PM

66. Thanks Coyotl..

Let's hope this gets shot down like it did in Wisconsin.

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Response to Cha (Reply #66)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:26 PM

71. I picked it up on the FB News Feed, hashtag to follow is #righttowork

I liked the Michigan Dems. The hashtag to follow is #righttowork

DU these on Facebook:

Michigan House Democrats
5,855 likes
http://www.facebook.com/MIHouseDems

Michigan Democratic Party
14,050 likes
http://www.facebook.com/michigandems

Michigan Senate Democrats
5,945 likes
http://www.facebook.com/MichiganSenateDemocrats



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Response to Coyotl (Reply #71)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:33 PM

72. I certainly would if I did FB.. I might

be joining one of these days, though. So I can do that.

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Response to Cha (Reply #72)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:36 PM

73. Twitter is a good, instant news feed too, but you also have to join.

With Twitter, you can follow hashtags too, not limited to groups, friends, public figures.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #73)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:26 PM

80. Yeah, I love Twitter for spreading the People's News..

Just haven't joined in, yet.

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Response to Cha (Reply #80)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:54 PM

86. I like the power of hashtags - #righttowork

They work both ways, not just for following. Adding them to tweets targets the audience too.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:18 PM

69. Dog Bites Man Story

Of course nobody read the bills before voting on them. Corporate lobbyists write the bills and they go straight to a vote. Maybe if one of the lawyers writing this bill actually had passed the Michigan bar exam then some of this embarrassment could have been avoided. Will any lessons be learned from this? Don't bet on it.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 06:23 PM

70. next question: who serves on Michigan's "Civil Service Commission"?

Who's on the Civil Service Commission, and what are their backgrounds? Looks like the whole burrito could be on their plate.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:24 PM

76. That's what happens

When one doubles down on stupid.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:24 PM

77. The stupid, it burnses.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:26 PM

79. Right to Work Legislation will expose

The true power of a very angry voting public. BE WARNED!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:17 PM

85. An affront to everyone who sacrificed an hour, a gift, a limb, a life, a child for this democracy.

An affront to democracy means nothing to them.

They have no desire for a democracy, that word is only an advertising line to get others to sacrifice whatever it takes to make them more money, they want to be a ruling class -- and to own everything.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:37 PM

89. I really hope that's right.

Maybe even republicans will realize these people are incompetent jerks.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:04 PM

92. k&R

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:21 PM

93. And it was written in crayon.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #93)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:56 PM

97. crayons

taste great!

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Response to upi402 (Reply #97)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:14 PM

99. Nom nom nom

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:54 PM

96. If their bill is flawed, won't now they will have time to fix it...

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Response to TheProgressive (Reply #96)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:16 PM

100. That's what I was thinking

Should they have waited until the term ended before making a big deal out if it?

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:11 PM

98. Love thy Karma!

Gotta love it!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:16 AM

101. K&R

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:27 AM

102. If this isn't a case

for a Gubernatorial recall, I don't know what is.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #102)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:50 AM

103. Where and when

did all the stupid and uneducated get into politics?

The average IQ in politics is plummeting at a seriously unusual rate. It's got to be a reflection on the present GOP voter intellect.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:57 AM

106. I disagree about competence/incompetence

It's not due to incompetence, it's that they don't have ANY respect or concern about following proper procedure. For these radical RW'ers, procedure inhibits their raw application of power.
I don't think these group'll even break a sweat about not following procedure. They'll just double-down.
Not good.

(love the Reagonomics poster)

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Response to Euphoria (Reply #106)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:12 AM

108. Raw political power at work, with an FU attitude all the way.

You are correct, they really don't care much. This is all about securing political power by damaging the opposition.

The simple facts that drive this situation are the $$$ the unions spend to defeat the Rs!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 08:22 AM

107. kickity kick kick!

I hope this is true!

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:02 AM

111. Nothing would please me more than to see this LAW rendered Void/worthless

And now the people of MI know what really is on Rick Snyder's political agenda. He is not governing, he is taking his marching orders from ABOVE "the $$ above" and he will now be held accountable. ALEC, KOCHROACHES minions, GOP/TPARTY 1% have been so emboldened with their actions, that they EXPOSED their real objectives to undermine democracy by voter suppression and abdication of governing powers to their POLITICAL DONOR CLASS/Corp persons.
Real persons can still out smart the CORP BOTS and compliant zombies.

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Response to Coyotl (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:25 AM

112. Michigan House passed the anti-recall bill = Republicans' 11th-Hour Rewrite of Voter Rights

The Rs are trying to force a bill through that would make recall near impossible.

December 14, 2012 Bookmark and Share
House Dems Slam Republicans' 11th-Hour Rewrite of Voter Rights
Last-minute Republican bill hampers recall efforts, suppresses voters
http://www.housedems.com/news/article/house-dems-slam-republicans-11th-hour-rewrite-of-voter-rights

LANSING - Michigan House Democrats early Friday morning denounced a last-minute Republican effort to squash voter rights by making recalls of elected officials virtually impossible and limiting the ability of citizens to cast a ballot. The measures were introduced to the Senate late Friday evening and passed by the House around 2:15 a.m. in the closing minutes of the 2012 legislative session.

“Republicans should be ashamed of what they are doing to democracy in our state,” Rep. Jon M. Switalski (Warren) said. “Time and time again this week, Republicans in the Legislature have ignored the will of the people and passed bills that citizens do not want. Now, cowardly fearing retribution, Republicans have passed a law that seeks to make them immune to consequences for what they have done.”

The desperate attempt to insulate themselves from the judgment of the people came in the same week Republicans passed new laws that weaken collective bargaining rights, reinstate an emergency financial manager law voters overturned last month and directed taxpayer dollars out of schools and into the building of a private stadium. ....

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