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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:01 AM

I Stand With Santa

I've noticed on this board that a LOT of posters have decided to take countless shots at Santa Claus as spreading commercialism as if he personally existed and brought the CEOs of stores to your house in the middle of the night to steal the cash under your mattresses.

Santa Claus or at least the concept of which derives from a fairly generous character, Saint Nickolas. The reason we celebrate him isn't because Coca Cola or other corporations realized that he is a powerful and un-trademarkable (therefore easy to use without legal ramifications) symbol of the season.

No, we celebrate him because he brings magic to children. He teaches them that being on their best behavior means good things will happen for them. He teaches them that giving to others is more rewarding than receiving for yourself. These BTW, sound like pretty liberal positions.

Santa being in commercials doesn't mean Santa = Corporatism or Commercialism. It means Corporations hijacked his image because there's no legal way to prevent it. But when I see people here attack Santa, well you're just as bad as the Scrooges and Grinches that make up the assholes on the right wing who drum up a War on Christmas to make the season fucking miserable for everybody.

Santa's everything we should celebrate during this time of year. He represents the good in all of us and brings smiles to the faces of children. With or without him there would be commercialism because it just so happens that people like buying other people presents. Jews don't have Santa but they still buy gifts during Hanukkah without issue.

And honestly, take a step back for a second. Say we did as you asked and stopped buying presents for loved ones at Christmas and shunned Commercialism as a whole. Listen to yourself. You'd crash the fucking economy and put everyone on the streets. Our economy is built off a demand-side base. If we stopped buying, people would stop producing which would kill manufacturing jobs then transportation jobs then retail or ecommerce jobs. I suppose you'd get your way then because every gift you'd ever buy after that would certainly be for the homeless or needy since we'd all be in that position.

I would say I am somewhat a fighter of the supposed war on Christmas. But I don't try to ruin everyone's holidays, I just remind them to dial back the Reason for the Season, Jesus-y bullshit because history proves that it is untrue. I don't want to take away their celebration of Jesus though. Let them have it. Just don't try to fight everyone into saying Christmas exists solely because of him. Their argument too, is to attack that wonderful kindred spirit of Santa because they feel threatened by the existence of such a loveable character that chooses reward peaceful and kind actions of humanity better than their own religion does.

I love Christmas for what it is. A time to be with family. A time to make children smile. A time of beautiful decor and music. And a time where we can sit back, pop on a special or movie and once a year be reminded CONSTANTLY of the virtues of loving, caring LIBERALISM. You think A Christmas Carol or It's a Wonderful Life are a waste of time? WRONG. They are some of the best tales of our entire structural belief system and one of the few times a year that the media bothers to give us as a nation PRIMETIME ACCESS to such views without all of the cynical criticism...

Oh wait you can find all of that same criticism here can't you?

It's shit like this that proves how America has changed. As a diehard, far left wing liberal I say BAH HUMBUG to your attempts to shit all over the Holidays and Santa Claus. I stand with him and what he stands for.



37 replies, 2706 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply I Stand With Santa (Original post)
MessiahRp Dec 2012 OP
FSogol Dec 2012 #1
PADemD Dec 2012 #2
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #3
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #5
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #11
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #12
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #16
badhair77 Dec 2012 #28
In_The_Wind Dec 2012 #4
randome Dec 2012 #6
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #7
randome Dec 2012 #9
raccoon Dec 2012 #8
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #10
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #29
d_r Dec 2012 #32
johnp3907 Dec 2012 #13
randome Dec 2012 #14
johnp3907 Dec 2012 #19
RC Dec 2012 #23
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #15
randome Dec 2012 #18
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #24
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #30
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #36
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #37
nolabear Dec 2012 #17
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #20
ErikJ Dec 2012 #21
SheilaT Dec 2012 #22
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #25
Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #26
Bucky Dec 2012 #27
d_r Dec 2012 #31
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #33
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #34
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #35

Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:05 AM

1. Right on. K&R. n/t

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:05 AM

2. You are not alone

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:16 AM

3. Good post. But quite a few Jewish people actually do Santa.

They just don't celebrate the religious side of Christmas.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:17 AM

5. Possibly but either way Santa isn't generally the catalyst for their gift buying tendencies.

As suggested here, Santa is basically nothing more than a corporate stooge who jams wrong headed commercialism down everyone's throats.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:53 AM

11. I don't have kids, don't believe in Santa and I do Christmas BIG

Tree
Lights ALL over
Presents for my staff and family

Nothing to do with Christ, Santa or commercialism. I enjoy the opportunity to make my yard sparkle, to make my house pretty and to show people I care about that I care.

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Response to DonRedwood (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:55 AM

12. I'm with you. I also do Halloween big. Makes the experience so much more fun.

Sometimes people have to realize that the point of the holidays isn't to score political points but rather to be a fun, enjoyable break from the daily grind. A chance to step back and appreciate those around them.

Thanks for sharing that!!

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:31 PM

16. My younger son was engaged to a Jewish girl

She was thrilled to celebrate Xmas when they first started going together. She told me she always secretly wanted to have a xmas tree.

They celebrated Hanukkah and Xmas. I still have their tree decorations as my son died the year they were to be married at 26.

I am still in touch with his fiancee' who didn't marry until 12 years after he died.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:37 PM

28. Thanks for sharing this.

It's a beautiful story. My best friend's mother lost her fiance as a young woman when he died in WWII. She kept a relationship with his parents even after marrying and having children.


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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:16 AM

4. I believe.

When times are rocky politically many tactics are used to distract the public away from the truth.


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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:22 AM

6. I agree. There is nothing wrong with Santa as he was originally intended.

Our society has made him into something of an all-absorbing blob but we don't have to accept that. A jolly old guy who gives gifts to good little boys and girls?

What's not to like about that?

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Response to randome (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:42 AM

7. I suspect the current day cynicism towards the holiday will kill this thread dead.

I'd love it if we took ownership of Santa here on this board and had a sort of Miracle on 34th Street response to this thread with others standing with Santa. Since after all, he would symbolize a lot of what we try to impart value-wise onto others.

But there's something wrong with Christmas these days. A lot of the people I know hate the holiday. They have no reverence for the decorations, music, specials or basic concept of the season. They don't mind getting presents but they hate shopping for others (seems rather greedy to me). A lot of people have allowed negativity to override their sense of joy and it's sort of a microcosm of society as a whole these days.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:47 AM

9. I think if people really gave it some thought...

...they could give in to the good vibes without letting it overwhelm them. There are few things that cross boundaries more effectively than the Christmas holidays and that includes Santa Claus.

People who 'disown' Santa Claus probably would not disown their comic book collections or their video games. They are all methods of escapism.

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:44 AM

8. Good point about SC being untrademarkable.


"He teaches them that being on their best behavior means good things will happen for them."

Didn't you get the memo? In the USA it's often the opposite now. But true.

Other thing, what if poor parents genuinely want to buy a good kid something they want, but can't afford it?

Other thing, I wish people wouldn't lie to kids that SC is REAL. Why can't he be make-believe like movie characters, TV characters, etc.?

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Response to raccoon (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:51 AM

10. It's not about BUYING anything.

People can create gifts on their own potentially... or hand me down items they might want. Presents are about what you choose them to be.

And the way you spin it with kids is you explain that Santa is representative of the spirit of the holiday so if you believe in him, you believe in the human spirit to do good things and be kind to others.

It's a simple transition and we made that move with my kids and even now when they both know about Santa, they realize and appreciate what he stands for and haven't lost an ounce of their Christmas spirit.

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Response to raccoon (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:48 PM

29. Just an FYI on child development

Up until about seven, unicorns, Santa, dwarfs, twinkle bell, and all sorts of fantastic characters are as real as the morning, and as tangible to a child as a pencil. Some kids remain more wedded to fantasy for one or two years, a few realize Santa, and a slew of other characters are not real by five.

It is not unhealthy for kids. Nor is it a lie...or unicorns and twinkle bell and the man on the moon are as well.

Kids need that.

Now Jewish kids don't have Santa, and thankfully Hanukah Harry has not taken hold. But they still believe in the fantasy world, and the imagination is a good thing.

So, no, it is not a lie, not even a fib. It is a problem when a twelve year old kid still believes in Santa, but a seven year old, perfectly normal.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:32 PM

32. I agree 100%

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:58 AM

13. I support Santa Claus!

And the Ice Cream Bunny, too!

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Response to johnp3907 (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:03 AM

14. There's an Ice Cream Bunny?

What kind of gifts does he/she/it give? Or does the ICB taketh away?

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Response to randome (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:52 PM

23. Well, there's this.

 


And it is a very good product

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:25 PM

15. my little boys believed in Santa

they were born in 1969 and 1973...I was not sure how to handle the Santa situation

My husband and I decided to go the Santa route. Santa bought only one toy...and stocking stuffers. Santa always bought the one toy they wanted the most.

Relatives and friends bought them their other wished gifts.

We did a tradition of visiting our two big stores in Toronto, Simpson's and Eaton's (both now gone). We would look at the beautiful windows decorated with XMas themes with automated animals and people.. We would visit both stores and see Santa for a picture and the beautiful Toy departments...They were much bigger in those days.

THen we would have hot chocolate in Simpson's 7th floor cafeteria watching the ice skaters in City Hall by the Big xmas tree.


We made tons of homemade xmas cookies. They were my little helpers.

I remember the two of them sitting on the couch both looking everyday at the toy catalogs and circling their wished for toys.

When they got older those traditions turned to other traditions....and Santa of course was known to be a wonderful fantasy

We made it a point to watch IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE on TV and all the Christmas shows..
I will hold these memories forever.

I cannot even remember when they found there was no Santa...Of course the younger one found out sooner That is to be expected.

Each year I would buy a special xmas tree decoration and put their names and year on it. It gives me such pleasure to put them on the little tree my younger son had when he moved into his own place. I now have it.
The red yarn garland he chain crocheted when he was five while watching Sesame Street is on his tree.

And now my younger son and his dad are in heaven. My older son is England...We did get to visit Harrod's toy department and see Harrod's xmas windows when I visited him last month...It was just like old times.

Things come and go but Memories are forever.


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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:03 PM

18. Nicely put.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:33 PM

24. Thanks for sharing this.

I have similar, wonderful Christmas memories and it's a major part of the experience I try to share with my children.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:52 PM

30. Easton's is gone?

What a shame. Wonderful memories you have there.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:03 PM

36. yes killed by the american big stores

Eaton's was over 100 years old. Loved their stores.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:53 PM

37. I loved it too when I visited Toronto.

A shame.

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:03 PM

17. Reccin' for Santa!

Amen!

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:06 PM

20. His 35 minute dark star jams couldnt be beat in terms of psychedelic meltyness.

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:11 PM

21. But Cons say Dems voted for Santa O Clause.

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:26 PM

22. Good post.

All of us can make our own decisions about how much of the Christmas commercialism we choose to buy into.

My first advice to everyone is always to get rid of your TV. That way you don't see all the commercials that imply if you don't get a whole lot of stuff there's something wrong and you're terribly deprived. If you keep the TV, you can always be blunt to your kids about how in your family there just won't be a lot of that stuff under the tree on Christmas morning. Even when the kids are little enough to still believe in Santa.

I am not at all religious, but I just love a lot of the secular, and even some of the religious, aspects of Christmas. I especially love it that so many people decorate their homes with lights. I work until 8pm, so it's dark when I'm going home, and this time of year I start driving through the neighborhoods on the way just to see the lights.

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:28 PM

26. tldr

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:29 PM

27. A war on Santa is a war on socialism.

Let's put the "más" back in Christmas!

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:26 PM

31. me too

and I'm a "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" person.

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Response to MessiahRp (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:57 PM

33. the only concept of Santa that really bugged me was the behaving to get presents theme

You have to be good to get a present. If you don't you'll get a piece of coal. Come on. Doesn't that sound like something a conservative would come up with to scare their kids into behaving to make parenting easier on them? Like you said you give presents to be generous and you tell your kids about Santa when they're little because it creates a sense of wonder and magic for them. For us finding the money for Christmas was always difficult, so we made it all about the kids. The kids were the ones who received presents. No presents for the adults. The adults don't really need that magic feeling to make them warm and fuzzy inside anyway. We just enjoyed watching our kids open their presents and eating some pie after dinner anyway. I think the best way to fight off the commercialism and corporatism is to just not go overboard. This year I got my son two video games and I'm giving my daughter some cash because she is saving for a car. That's it. That is all we are spending for Christmas. We usually try to do a local food and toy drive as well so they know the joy of giving. One of our society's biggest problems right now is corporate greed. They keep telling us we need more and more and more. So people buy more and more and more. It becomes complicated, a hassle, and no one can really afford it. My husband was a telecom engineer and engineers have a saying. Keep it simple stupid. They don't always go by that rule but it usually ends producing the best results in engineering and in life.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:57 AM

34. I don't necessarily see that as a conservative theme

Because let's face it most conservatives are sociopaths who teach their children that it's okay to lie-cheat-steal and do whatever it takes to get to the top yourself because if you won't, someone else will at your expense (see: welfare recipients).

Teaching kids to have good behavior is just good parenting. It will help them outside of Christmas/Santa. The technique of self control will help kids eventually be better students in class or better employees at work. It will teach them things like patience and that generosity towards others brings it's own rewards.

When you get older the concept of being a good person is rewarding changes from Santa presents to other sorts of rewards of course... whether that be physical reward (promotions at work) or moral rewards (the joy of helping others).

So I don't see it as a negative lesson at all.

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Response to MessiahRp (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:52 AM

35. I don't know I guess when it comes to discipline I'm just more pragmatic

Every action has a consequence. Plain and simple. I like to leave the Santa make believe theme for fun and not necessarily a lesson in discipline.

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