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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:50 AM

Wondering why your car has a little extra giddyup lately?


NEWARK The New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs today confirmed that approximately eight tankers of jet fuel were mistakenly delivered to six gas stations last week in four New Jersey counties; this fuel was sold to motorists last week before the stations were shut down.

The stations affected included Express Fuel, 2482 South Broad Street in Trenton; and Pasmel, 2515 Brunswick Pike in Lawrenceville.

The aviation fuel, which is rated at 104.7 octane compared to 93 octane for super unleaded gasoline, was delivered to, and then dispensed as super unleaded by, these other stations from Dec. 5 to Dec. 7elta, 88 Route 36 South, Keyport; Getty, 1292 Route 22 East, North Plainfield; Lukoil, 218 Parker Avenue, Manasquan;and Lukoil, 2239 North Avenue, Scotch Plains.

All six stations are owned by Freehold-based Pasmel Property. Officials with the State Division of Consumer Affairs and its Office of Weights and Measures today met with Pasmel representatives to gather information about this situation. ....................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.trentonian.com/article/20121212/NEWS01/121219907/state-admits-jet-fuel-went-to-local-gas-stations



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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply Wondering why your car has a little extra giddyup lately? (Original post)
marmar Dec 2012 OP
snooper2 Dec 2012 #1
leveymg Dec 2012 #2
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #3
leveymg Dec 2012 #4
lastlib Dec 2012 #12
MineralMan Dec 2012 #5
1-Old-Man Dec 2012 #6
leveymg Dec 2012 #7
FarCenter Dec 2012 #10
sir pball Dec 2012 #13
leveymg Dec 2012 #18
sir pball Dec 2012 #19
catnhatnh Dec 2012 #17
lonestarnot Dec 2012 #8
leveymg Dec 2012 #9
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #11
lonestarnot Dec 2012 #14
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #15
lonestarnot Dec 2012 #16

Response to marmar (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:54 AM

1. Damn some folks got a good deal...

you know how much this runs?




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Response to marmar (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:55 AM

2. This is Avgas. Jet fuel is kerosene - your car won't run on it, unless it's diesel.

Your car probably won't run any better on Avgas unless the computer is set up to take advantage of the extra octane by advancing the ignition timing at full throttle.

Most media types are so technically illiterate.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:57 AM

3. Beat me to it.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:59 AM

4. That's because I've been drinking my jet fuel this morning. ;-)

(Not really, it's a little early for anything other than coffee).

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Response to leveymg (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:45 AM

12. Coffee, jet fuel--hard to tell the diff at my house....

That's ok, though--I like setting off explosives detectors at airport security!

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:02 AM

5. Thanks. I was just about to write the same thing.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:04 AM

6. Maybe not

I believe in most systems the programming is such that maximum spark advance is always the norm (independent of throttle position) and a combination of data from the anti-knock sensor(s), manifold vacuum in a naturally aspirated engine, and the oxygen sensor are used to restrain the advance. So if there is higher octane fuel in the system by definition the knock would be reduced and the result would be higher than normal spark advance throughout the ignition curve.

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:20 AM

7. In effect, higher octane fuel is only useful (or noticable) under load (lower engine vacuum)

with increased throttle position. As you know, you don't want a lot of advance at low rpm, anyway. The engine won't start or run.

I think the knock sensor is controlling with regard to ignition advance or retard. Most electronic ignition systems don't allow advance past a certain number of degrees anyway, regardless. That's just how they're calibrated. You'd probably have to chip or reprogram the eprom to take full advantage of racing gas (Avgas).

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Response to leveymg (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:38 AM

10. The journalists are confused -- jet fuel was delivered in Keyport and Manasquan

N.J. cars pumped full of jet fuel
Several motorists fueling up in Monmouth County Sunday found themselves with tanks full of jet fuel, though that didn't mean their cars would be taking off. Instead, they were stalling out.

Police told CBS Station WCBS that jet fuel was mistakenly delivered to a Delta gas station on Highway 36 Sunday morning.

Some cars gassed up on the jet fuel, and ended up stalling out as a result.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57558268/n.j-cars-pumped-full-of-jet-fuel/

Journalists, being technically illiterate don't know the difference between aviation gasoline (which is very high octane gasoline) and jet fuel (which is similar to kerosene, although it comes in various types).

Actually, maybe journalists are technically literate, since that has now been defined down to being able to play angry birds on an iPad.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:48 AM

13. Even if you had a custom ECU

Race/avgas wouldn't be fully utilized - you need to be running like 15:1 compression before you really need that much octane. I was running 10.5 in my old Nissan and feeding it 93 with no problems; the latest crop of 600cc sportbikes is at 13:1 on pump gas.

Now, if it's Jet A that went in there instead..

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Response to sir pball (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:58 AM

18. Believe, me a lot of 70s muscle (>11/1 comp ratio, carburetors) run a lot better on race gas

than on today's unleaded "premium" pump gas. You don't need 15/1 and a computer to benefit from 104 octane. In fact, before knock sensors and ECUs, you had to either run high octane gas or detune the engine.

You used to be able to buy Sunoco 260 (102 octane) at the pump, and your L-89 Vette or Boss 302 with factory 11/1 compression loved it. Run lesser gas and you needed to retard the ignition a couple degrees (easy back then) or live (not so long) with a lot of nasty pinging, panging and preignition noises. Holes in piston tops and cracked valve seats weren't uncommon results of the switch to unleaded and the drop in octane in the mid-1970s.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 10:04 AM

19. Oh yeah

My dad used to drive 15 miles through hill and dale to the one podunk gas station in the middle of nowhere that had race gas for our Buick Centurion with a lovingly built-up 455 Wildcat, it ran like an absolute beast...and got mileage in the same league as an Abrams tank

My point was more with modern electronics, metallurgy, theory, and general wizardry has shifted the burden of performance away from the specific fuel and more towards the petty details of engine design - it's a lot harder to take full advantage of (unleaded and not jet fuel) race/avgas and if people did get a tankful of it, it would most likely end up being a big ado over nothing.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:52 AM

17. Just what you said....

"Jet Fuel" good f'ing grief....

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:22 AM

8. So are the vehicles filled with that shit now ruined?

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:28 AM

9. If 104 octane Avgas, they'll run okay - most won't even notice. If its jet fuel, the owner

will know pretty much the moment they leave the pump. The car may not even start. But, if there's kerosene in the fuel system that can probably be flushed out without lasting damage. Probably. It would be exactly the same if you accidentally fueled up with diesel - and a lot of people have done that.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:42 AM

11. Not strictly true

aviation gasoline is leaded. That's how they get the octane rating. Probably not good for the catalytic converters, although I don't know if a single tankful would be enough to cause a failure; I'm guessing probably not.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:48 AM

14. I would imagine that turbo chargers also do not fare well, as well catalytic converters.

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:53 AM

15. Turbochargers are forced induction, that's not a problem

catalytic converters though use platinum as the catalyst. Lead is bad for catalytic converters because it makes them stop working (leaded gasoline probably won't have that effect on a turbocharger).

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:55 AM

16. Oh.

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