HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Stuff happens when you fo...

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:20 AM

Stuff happens when you follow the false centrism of Third Way.

This is just my opinion, but I believe the Tea Party extremists gained power because our side was too busy listening to the calls for "bipartisanship" coming from the policy think tanks.

After every success we have as Democrats all kind of op eds appear, saying that we need to be careful as a majority not to leave the other side out of discussions. That's fine and good, but not practical when the other side are extremists.

It used to be the Democratic Leadership Council guiding the steps of our party, but last year Fox Democrat Kirsten Powers let us know that Third Way was taking their place.

From her column at the Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/02/09/dlc-shutting-down-third-way-is-the-democrats-true-centrist-powerhouse.html
DLC Shut Down: The Democrats’ New Power Base

Reports of the death of centrism in the Democratic Party have been greatly exaggerated.

Monday’s news that the Democratic Leadership Council is folding after three decades was greeted with glee by those on the left who see it as evidence that centrism has gasped its last breath.

.."The truth is, the DLC’s position as the leading centrist Democratic think tank was long ago overtaken by a group called Third Way, which has been growing more influential by the day.

Before joining the White House, Bill Daley, President Obama’s new chief of staff, was a board member of Third Way.


I found an opinion piece written in 1995 by the present head of the Third Way. He was calling on Democrats to privatize Social Security for everyone but the very needy.

Pure gold from 1995. Op ed from Third Way prez Cowan calling to privatize Social Security.

The time has come to reinvent Social Security based on a "cut and privatize" approach that will be fair to all age groups. This reinvention should be based on three principles:

Start immediately to lower boomers' expectations of the returns they will get and encourage them to increase private savings.

Separate out the welfare portion of Social Security and pay out poverty benefits to today's--and tomorrow's--needy seniors from general government revenues.

Idea #3 is to lower the Social Security payroll to 10% (where the heck was it in 1995...isn't it 6.2 now?) and "give workers the option of putting their money into private pension programs that offer far higher returns and sounder prospects than today's Social Security system."


Some quotes from those who have warned the party to include the left and behave like Democrats.

False centrism and the rush to "bipartisanship". They are failing our party. Some quotes.

I still quote Howard Dean now and then. I stopped for a while because I believe he stepped back a while from telling things straight and clear. Hopefully he will again.

From June 2010:

"You did your job," Dean added. "You elected Barack Obama. You elected a Democratic Congress. You elected a Democratic Senate. And now it's time for them to behave like Democrats if they want to get reelected. They have forgotten where they came from -- and they haven't been here that long."

Dean echoed other progressive leaders who opened the conference Monday, expressing dismay, even anger, at the White House and Congress, saying they have been too timid and compromising on issues such as health care, the economy, climate change and banking reform.

Dean said the progressive base is critical to Democrats' electoral successes this fall and beyond. "If Washington understands that they can't do things that demoralize their base," Dean said, "then we'll have a permanent (Democratic) majority."


It proved to be true about needing the progressive base in 2010.

R. J. Eskow's masterpiece just after the 2010 midterms was clear.

After last night's rout, what are these experts advising? You guessed it: more of the same so-called "Centrism." That's an odd word to use for policies that most Americans oppose, like cutting Social Security or allowing bankers to enrich themselves by endangering the economy, but theirs is an Alice-in-Wonderland world.

Real centrists would defend Social Security and do more to rein in Wall Street, since those positions are popular across the political spectrum. It's a good thing the president said today that he wants to spend more time with the American people. Bankers and the Deficit Commission aren't "centrists" where most Americans live.


Robert Reich has a frank and open interview with Speigel Online.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: When you served in the White House, President Bill Clinton began on the left but drifted to the middle after the Democrats lost significant ground in the mid-term elections. Do you see that happening again?

Reich: I was there with Bill Clinton when he tried to so called "triangulate" and please the voters in the middle. But the middle is a fiction. The middle is simply where most voters who respond to surveys say they are. What Clinton did and what Obama may be forced to do is to give up leadership; that is, to simply respond to polls. I think it would be a shame if Obama moved from leadership to opinion polls, but his advisors may feel that that's the only way to guarantee him a re-election.


There are good ideas there at the Third Way in some cases. They are usually geared to the business community. That group often speaks of the left in not so friendly terms.

Simon Rosenberg, a co-founder of the DLC gave away their game and left no doubt. He spoke of why the DLC was founded. The article was in The American Prospect, and the actual link is hard to keep up with. Here is his quote:

"freed... from positions making it difficult for us to win. "...Simon Rosenberg.

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

44 replies, 3441 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply Stuff happens when you follow the false centrism of Third Way. (Original post)
madfloridian Dec 2012 OP
hedda_foil Dec 2012 #1
madfloridian Dec 2012 #2
hedda_foil Dec 2012 #3
madfloridian Dec 2012 #4
jsr Dec 2012 #5
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #6
madfloridian Dec 2012 #10
GiaGiovanni Dec 2012 #7
Douglas Carpenter Dec 2012 #8
SoapBox Dec 2012 #9
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #11
hay rick Dec 2012 #12
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #13
woo me with science Dec 2012 #14
hootinholler Dec 2012 #15
madfloridian Dec 2012 #16
bvar22 Dec 2012 #17
madfloridian Dec 2012 #26
midnight Dec 2012 #37
WillyT Dec 2012 #18
madfloridian Dec 2012 #22
duffyduff Dec 2012 #19
madfloridian Dec 2012 #20
cui bono Dec 2012 #28
madfloridian Dec 2012 #35
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #21
bigtree Dec 2012 #23
madfloridian Dec 2012 #25
cui bono Dec 2012 #29
progressoid Dec 2012 #24
We People Dec 2012 #27
madfloridian Dec 2012 #30
Skidmore Dec 2012 #31
madfloridian Dec 2012 #34
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #32
lunatica Dec 2012 #33
midnight Dec 2012 #36
Jefferson23 Dec 2012 #38
madfloridian Dec 2012 #39
Jefferson23 Dec 2012 #44
Zorra Dec 2012 #40
madfloridian Dec 2012 #41
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #42
madfloridian Dec 2012 #43

Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:37 AM

1. Brava, Madfla!

As one who's been there and back again with you from the time (in 2002, iirc) we researched our way through the sham of the DLC until today, you've always pointed our way toward the truth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedda_foil (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:46 AM

2. Hedda-foil, it's been years! Good to see you.

I still have links to some of your posts from the old site. Not sure where I put them on my new computer, but I have quoted from them now and then.

We had great experiences during those years. Been hard to get the enthusiasm back to that level. Probably never will.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:06 AM

3. Bless you, my friend!

I've never gone away but I stopped posting for a long time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hedda_foil (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:21 AM

4. I didn't post here the first year.

I branched out to Twitter and Daily Kos. Enjoying Twitter a lot.

https://twitter.com/madfloridian

If you are there, follow me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:29 AM

5. Great post.

Thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:33 AM

6. It's clear that winning by large majorities is not in the interest of either party. The squeaker

 

election suits both parties just fine, because that way they can say: "We have to compromise, you know! The electorate demands it!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:29 AM

10. Nail on head, that's so true.

It's more convenient that way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:47 AM

7. Kick

 

and rec

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:51 AM

8. of course,,,knr

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:51 AM

9. Wow

Amazing post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:41 AM

11. Well done, indeed. K&R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 07:49 AM

12. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:31 AM

13. Thanks for posting. nm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:47 AM

14. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:59 AM

15. Dean delivered big in 2008 and then was punished for it.

The Turd Way needs flushed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hootinholler (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:42 AM

16. True.

He was fulfilling his promise to visit all states and territories while he was chair. When he was in American Samoa, Obama announced Tim Kaine as chair....Dean was not invited.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:38 AM

17. DUrec!


"In politics the middle way is none at all."
-President John Adams





"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed



"By their WORKS you will know them."


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:31 PM

26. bvar22, I ran across a journal post of yours from 2008 about field peas.

It made my mouth water because I know exactly what kind of peas you are talking about. Love them. Kind of hard to find very often. Grew up eating them with corn bread. Love your pictures in this post.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bvar22

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bvar22 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:16 PM

37. Everytime I read that quote, it explains why we have corporations being treated like people, and

people not being treated like humans....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:41 AM

18. HUGE K & R !!!


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:21 PM

22. Hey WillyT

How are you doing?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:32 PM

19. This isn't "centrism"

This is right-wing politics, stuff that is to the right of Nixon and even Reagan. Our "choice" now is between right-wing and outright fascism.

The Third Way movement is little more than infiltration of the opposing party in order to destroy it from within by rendering it worthless to stand up for people's rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to duffyduff (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:02 PM

20. I called it "false" centrism, because it isn't.

It's a way to not need the left or liberal part of your party. Designed that way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:58 PM

28. I've been told on DU by a staunch Obama supporter that

"'we' are getting what 'we' want and 'we' don't need progressives like you." (paraphrasing as I'm going from memory) I was the only one taking my position in that thread - that was clearly started only to ridicule fellow DUers who dared worry about what Obama might do - as I presume all the posters in that thread are on ignore by real progressives on here. Really wish that ignore function wasn't on here for that reason.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cui bono (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:25 PM

35. Don't feel bad.

I have only been back at DU a short time, most of my posts in the last month. I never attacked anyone, tried not to argue much....but already I can see that 7 people have me on ignore and have blocked me. That's up 2 from a day ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:09 PM

21. Fuck the DINOs. The Democratic Party only wins when they act like real Democrats.

If they try to get votes by acting like Republican Lite, the voters go for full-flavor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:32 PM

23. 'bipartisanship' is mostly just talk; lip service for the electorate.

. . . neither party is interested in advancing anything significant of either side's agenda. When you do have the parties working together it's normally on legislation where votes are required to make a bill pass. You can argue that Democrats shouldn't be passing compromised bills, but that's not because of some desire for bipartisanship, it's a reflection of their desire to move an initiative forward.

So, 'bipartisanship' is the new 'DLC' bugaboo around here? It's a red herring, imo. Real-world, real-time legislative efforts are going to be 'bipartisan' in nature and function. If not, there simply won't be legislation advanced into action or law. That's the nature of the political balance in D.C. Pointing that out isn't an endorsement, just an observation for anyone who's interested in what it takes for a bill to become law. The rest is posturing, positioning, and puffery.

Legislators bring their firmly held positions to Congress and they either argue or compromise. There isn't any other avenue for them to enact legislation or advance initiatives other than to work to attract the necessary number of legislators to pass their bills on to the WH for a signature. Some legislation can wait; some legislation can't wait for the perfect language.

Amping folks up about the practice of bipartisanship ignores the democratic process which, more than often, challenges these legislators to work together to get what they want from their equally ambitious counterparts. That's not something sinister and mysterious. It's an obvious reality of our political system which elects folks from many disparate and diverse regions around the nation; each of them carrying their own prescriptions and notions about how to spend our money. How can it be surprising to anyone that no one individual is going to entirely get their way among the myriad of opinion and interests?

I personally think the critics hyperventilating about it give anyone thinking of adopting the 'third way' moniker way more cred than they would get by, say, pinning a button with the words 'third way' on it to their lapel.


(madfloridian: I'm a big fan of yours; esp. teachers)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bigtree (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:34 PM

25. Hey, bigtree.

Have always read your posts. Thanks for being a fan of teachers. Not everyone is anymore.

I like the idea of the "third way" button on their lapel. Good one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bigtree (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:03 PM

29. Exactly. In reality, if both sides fought hard for their positions it would still be bipartisan as

no one gets everything they want. Unfortunately, so far, Obama too willingly concedes much before the negotiations even start. I hope he's learned his lesson, but I fear he's too centrist to feel those were really concessions in the first place.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:33 PM

24. Same shit - different assholes.

+1

Most of us knew the DLC would be back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:45 PM

27. So the bipartisan emphasis probably originated from Third Way, and we've had enough

of their influence on Obama and Congressional Dems. I dare say that most who voted for Obama in '08 had had enough of the Republicans (many had crossed over from there), so we weren't exactly expecting to have to surrender much, because the party of Bush and the Neocons had lost. From what I've read about DLC/3W, they're OK with most social liberalism (e.g., marriage equality) but very conciliatory toward economic conservatism. Allowing or in any way supporting the repeal of Glass-Stegall during the Clinton era contributed the economic nightmare brought about by what culminated in 2008.

As far as I'm concerned, Third Way (today's version of DLC) was much more about Republican ideas and talking points than retaining many traditional Democratic Party principles. As a result, it's a reach to find bedrock Democrats these days, and we've had to learn the hard way - from 2000 through 2008 - to realize the radical differences. Much of the country is watching as radical unfairness is being legislated and democracy is being stolen away from people.

Thank God Obama has already said NO regarding the inclusion of Debt Limit Ceiling as part of the Fiscal Cliff negotiations. If Third Way thinking is allowed to prevail on our side of the aisle now, we lose.

(Many of you could probably reply to what I just wrote with a big, "DUH!" but sometimes it helps me to process this by writing it out, so don't mind me!)

Thanks, madfloridian, for your usual thoughtful, important, and relevant posts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to We People (Reply #27)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:35 PM

30. Glass-Steagall repealed in 1999, I think. Or 98. We were in crisis within 10 years.

I am sure in his mind Clinton must have made a connection. In fact I think he once said he was sorry about it.

Thanks for the kind words.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:38 PM

31. Frankly, I see this type of crap as a blatant attempt to divide the left.

To break up a coalition and I find it suspect in every sense of the world. Smoke and mirrors for doing the same thing from a different angle. If you have a coalition of greater than half of the public, by definition it means that you have people closer to the right in that tent. Now either you want access to avenues of power where you can effect change or you continue to wander in the wilderness and rail against those who may not see eye to eye with every position you take on issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skidmore (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:27 PM

34. "rail against those who may not see eye to eye with every position you take on issues. "

Not sure of a lot of implications of your post, but that phrase bothers me. It's like the term "one-issue voter" which is thrown around way too easily.

If you refer to those of us who speak on some issues and say we are "wandering in the wilderness" and railing against those who do not see eye to eye on every issue...then you are wrong.

We should always question what our leaders do. Always.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:42 PM

32. k&r

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:46 PM

33. I think they were elected because they lied about what they believe in

but once they were elected they outed themselves and are working overtime to get their laws passed before they get unelected in the next elections.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:14 PM

36. Howard Dean so right about this:

"You did your job," Dean added. "You elected Barack Obama. You elected a Democratic Congress. You elected a Democratic Senate. And now it's time for them to behave like Democrats if they want to get reelected. They have forgotten where they came from -- and they haven't been here that long."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:26 PM

38. Orchestrated to marginalize people on the left...the Third Way is essentially saying drop dead

pal..you'll like what we get to keep for you. Stop whining about it too.

K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:38 PM

39. Concise and to the point statement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:37 PM

44. Good to see you madfloridian...great posts, as usual from you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:49 PM

40. Awesome post ~

Don't know if you saw this posted awhile back from woomewithscience, but it's a great complement to your OP, which I am bookmarking.

Reject Third Way propaganda, *especially* now.

The Third Way/corporate-faction-of-our-party bids for passivity and low expectations re: "The Grand Bargain" have begun.

We were spared them for a few days during celebration over the elections, but the corporate mantra is starting to crop up all over the boards now, from the same familiar corners. Don't buy it.

You will hear the usual prepping for acceptance of a new "Grand Bargain" to impose trillions in austerity on Americans:

"We don't hold the House." 'Obama can't get anything unless he compromises." "You're just a purist." "Tax increases don't have popular support." "We have to address the deficit."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021791044

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zorra (Reply #40)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:55 PM

41. No I missed that one.

Thanks so much for the link. I did see several posts talking about we should be more understanding about these think tanks, Third Way mentioned.

I believe many of those "thinkers" feel there is no room in the party for those of us who question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:04 AM

42. Good post. It's time for liberals to get loud

We've allowed the moderates in our party to outright verbally abuse us because they're afraid their candidate will lose. If they don't want their candidate to lose then their candidate needs to stand up for the people they are representing and stop compromising with corporatists. It is people like Elizabeth Warren that are truly leading the liberal charge. We need to be putting more people like her out in front in leadership positions. The moderates are certainly doing a horrible job with education which you are doing a tremendous job of bringing to the forefront madfloridian. The moderates need to get out of bed with corporatists who want to buy our public educational system.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 01:21 AM

43. I agree...they are doing a horrible job of education. Such shambles now.

No one is taking a leadership role, not even Arne Duncan. It's like the billionaire boys club moves him around like a pawn. He doesn't even know how teachers feel about him. Totally unaware.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread