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Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:46 PM

Message hidden by jury decision

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Reply Message hidden by jury decision. (Original post)
BrentWil Dec 2012 OP
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #1
hay rick Dec 2012 #2
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #3
BrentWil Dec 2012 #5
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #9
BrentWil Dec 2012 #11
msongs Dec 2012 #4
FSogol Dec 2012 #8
forestpath Dec 2012 #12
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #15
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #6
JaneyVee Dec 2012 #7
Kelvin Mace Dec 2012 #10
ProSense Dec 2012 #13
Ruby the Liberal Dec 2012 #14

Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:55 PM

1. OK. It speaks to an unsustainable economic model that requires perpetual growth.

Which is like saying there is no problem with using fossil fuels.

Or, like saying, fuck it, let our grandkids' kids handle the mess down the road.

What if we lost a point off growth—not just next year, but every year? Mainstream economists now predict that U.S. economic growth over the coming decades will be a point less than the growth we experienced between World War II and the Great Recession. One point may not seem like a lot, but it makes all the difference in the world.

This report is the first to quantify what this slower growth would mean for the economy and middle class Americans. This one point over the course of 15 years between 2018 and 2032 means five million fewer jobs, $2.5 trillion less in personal income, and $5 trillion less in government revenue. It’s the difference between a nation that is vaulting forward and one trying to keep up.

Last summer, President Obama and Speaker Boehner nearly reached a historic budget agreement. But the deal, as we know, broke down. In this report, we propose a series of grand bargains modeled on what the President and Speaker sought to achieve. We also provide a roadmap for these seven bipartisan grand bargains, showing where each party needs to give ground and change their thinking.

Taken together, these grand bargains would modernize our economy for a new and fierce era of global economic competition. Without them, America’s sixty-year span of automatic, robust economic growth will draw to a close.


"a new and fierce era of global economic competition"???

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:57 PM

2. Recycling an earlier thread.

The original thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021845455

From that post:

What does it mean to be a Third Way Democrat?

A more expansive exposition of Third Way's policy prescriptions is contained in a recently released paper entitled "The Bargain."
Link: http://content.thirdway.org/publications/613/Third_Way_Report_-_The_Bargain.pdf

Third Way's program is based on the premise that America's biggest problem going forward is a reduction in projected growth of GDP from 3.3% to 2.3% per year. This leads, in short order, to an economy that is too small to sustain promised safety net benefits. In this paper they offer a 7-point plan to spur growth in the economy and thereby save as much of the safety net as possible.

A summary of their prescription:

1. Entitlement reform and tax increases. "Democrats must accept reconfiguring the budget so that, in relative terms, the amount of spending on health care and income supports is reduced compared to public investments."

2. Become an export giant. "Democrats must accept that expanding U.S. exports comes primarily through aggressive new trade measures like the Trans Pacific Partnership."

3. Reform corporate taxes and business regulations. "Democrats must accept that a simpler tax code with a low corporate rate and a streamlined regulatory regime that helps businesses grow is good for America."

4. Increase the productivity and educational attainment of the American workforce. "Democrats must accept that education funding comes with a commitment to reform that puts student performance above all else. They must accept that it is virtually impossible to reform and improve education without restructuring the way teachers are hired, promoted, and dismissed." Third Way Directors active in the charter school movement include William Budinger, Andrew Feldstein, and Derek Kaufman.

5. Become a global magnet for talent. "Democrats must accept that legislation must tilt future immigration flows into the country decidedly in the direction of skills and education." The vague language here suggests support for expanding HB1 visas.

6. Improve infrastructure.

7. Spur breakthrough innovation.

Notably absent from the list are cuts to military spending and serious reform of our hugely expensive employment-based and private insurance-based health care system. Third Way's program appears to be indifferent to the interests of minorities and hostile to the interests of teachers and labor unions. A party that disregards the concerns of a sizeable portion of its base is likely to shatter- sooner rather than later.

Some of my sub-thread comments on the above:

1. Entitlement reform and tax increases. "Democrats must accept reconfiguring the budget so that, in relative terms, the amount of spending on health care and income supports is reduced compared to public investments."

Public investments need to be increased, but "entitlements" are not crowding out that spending. Try looking at bloated military spending, excessive and under-taxed corporate profits, the over-compensated and under-taxed 1%, and out-of-control costs imposed by health care providers and big pharma.

2. Become an export giant. "Democrats must accept that expanding U.S. exports comes primarily through aggressive new trade measures like the Trans Pacific Partnership."

... As I said elsewhere, if multinational corporations are people, TPP is their bill of rights.

3. Reform corporate taxes and business regulations. "Democrats must accept that a simpler tax code with a low corporate rate and a streamlined regulatory regime that helps businesses grow is good for America."

The complexity of our tax code is a legitimate issue. The nominal corporate tax rates may be too high, but the effective rates are too low. Corporate tax receipts as a share of total tax receipts have plunged with the proliferation of loopholes and credits.

4. Increase the productivity and educational attainment of the American workforce...

Anti-union screed...teachers are the problem...bullshit.

5. Become a global magnet for talent. "Democrats must accept that legislation must tilt future immigration flows into the country decidedly in the direction of skills and education." The vague language here suggests support for expanding HB1 visas.

The skills gap is another bogus right-wing meme. The real problem is the pay gap- employers don't want to pay a living wage to qualified Americans.

6. Improve infrastructure.

Duh.

7. Spur breakthrough innovation.

See 6.




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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:00 PM

3. Well at least you have found where you belong

These guys, who used to be known as DLC'ERS, are wait for it...CENTER RIGHT.

Congrats, at least you now know where you belong.

By the way there are more than a few problems and while they are not as bad as my fredumb loving libertarians, even Adam a smith knew the Free Hand had a few problems. But congrats, found your political home.



Now time for me to write of the evil unions...

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:08 PM

5. They seem center to me...

That said, I am to the left of them on many of their economic stances. But still looks like a promising group

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Response to BrentWil (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:20 PM

9. That is because you have no idea of these hard core

Political definitions. Do yourself a favor and go take a few poli sci classes. I know poli sci 101 does not go into that...it is government essentially. But I am sensuous as a heart attack. It helps, when discussing this shit, to actually sing from the same choir sheet.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:27 PM

11. I have take more then a few poli sci courses NT

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:04 PM

4. 3rd way is a republican front group to peel away democrats. nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:17 PM

8. ^^THIS^^

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Response to msongs (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:29 PM

12. Bingo. And to give cover to Republicans who claim to be Democrats for

 

whatever twisted reason.

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Response to msongs (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:40 PM

15. Not peel. Assimilate.

Assimilate and then continue to paint as radical left so they shrink the ideological spectrum to nonexistence on the left and expand the right.

Rinse and repeat.

Sure, periodically they have to change labels as folks wise up so I just place them all under the Turd Way umbrella be they Blue Dogs, DLC, Third Way, No Labels, Centrists, New Democrats, or whatever neat little moniker they come up with. Same faces, same money supply, same agenda, same tired rhetoric.

The biggest actual difference is that the Blue Dogs will go beyond the dog whistle rightwing "Social liberal but fiscally conservative" to socially "moderate" (???) or even socially conservative (aka utterly indistinguishable from the TeaPubliKlans except they aren't extolling the wonder of rape...yet). Though you have to keep an eye on the others as the Blue Dog types rebrand, particularly the No Labels and probably self identifying "centrists" (see socially moderate...whatever that is).

They're generally easy to spot, they lurves them some Big Bitness (even if they get little love in return compared to whatever Bircher type or corporate high roller is on deck), probably have difficulty finding a war they don't want, tend to be hanging about trying to cut something beneficial to real people, and are spinning some "bipartisanship" like a fucking top.
Some are more difficult to pick up in the campaign season but give them some rope and you'll catch them fashioning nooses pretty quick.

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:09 PM

6. We have had years of experience with shipping jobs to foreign countries and trickle-down economics.

 

That experience has shown that those policies do not benefit American as a whole and specifically do not benefit the American middle-class or what is left of the American middle-class.

The Third-Way organization, flying under the banner of the Democratic Party, particularly favors the pending TPP.

If there is a better way to destroy what is left of American middle-class than to have another let's-send-even-more-American-jobs-to-foreign-countries-for-the-benefit-of-the-rich-and-super-rich-corporate-owners "free-trade" agreement, what is it?

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:13 PM

7. It's run by bankers. Period.

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:25 PM

10. Take a close look at who is behind the movement

starting with the likes of Michael Bloomberg. Thirdway is just the DLC in another guise.

I offer my Parable of the Possum for anyone who wishes to take the "centrist" approach:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/20/827768/-A-Political-Possum-Parable-for-Our-Time?showAll=yes

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:30 PM

13. A Letter To Richard Trumka

A Letter To Richard Trumka

<...>

Mr. Trumka, you have one of the most respected voices in the progressive movement, and the AFL-CIO has been at the forefront of efforts to make the safety net secure dating back generations. But absent a serious fix, Social Security will become social insecurity, and Medicare will become pinched. When these programs were created no one anticipated that over the course of 30 years, the number of people over the age of 65 would double while those between 25 and 64 would increase by less than 20 percent. And because of increasing life expectancy and how our safety net benefits for the elderly are derived, the average lifetime benefit for each senior comes close to doubling in inflation-adjusted dollars over the same period. Letting this fester will not solve the crisis ahead.

We hope you will join us in seeking a responsible and balanced long-term fix to our entitlements. It will be good for progressives, good for the middle class, and good for future retirees.

Sincerely,
Jim Kessler
Senior Vice President for Policy
Third Way

http://content.thirdway.org/publications/602/Third_Way_Letter_-_To_Richard_Trumka_102512.pdf

Kessler is a fucking asshole.

NY Times: Obama balking at "entitlement" cuts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021966324


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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:38 PM

14. Lotsa politico-speak, chock full of buzzwords without any specifics

is what I got from it.

Picking "taxes" at random from their menu, I got this non-policy-policy statement:

http://www.thirdway.org/subjects/7/publications/619

YMMV

*yawn*

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