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Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:01 PM

Shouldn't someone go to prison for this?

Twinkie CEO Admits Company Took Employees Pensions and Put It Toward Executive Pay

http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/twinkie-ceo-admits-company-took-employees-pensions-and-put-it


Twinkie-maker Hostess continues to screw over its workers. The company is in the process of complete liquidation and 18,000 unionized workers are set to lose their jobs. More troubling they could lose their pensions.


Seriously...shouldn't they be behind bars? or is it only stealing when the poor take from the wealthy?

59 replies, 7789 views

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Arrow 59 replies Author Time Post
Reply Shouldn't someone go to prison for this? (Original post)
jorno67 Dec 2012 OP
PoliticAverse Dec 2012 #1
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #32
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #39
Skittles Dec 2012 #2
We People Dec 2012 #20
Rex Dec 2012 #3
IggleDoer Dec 2012 #4
sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #14
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #35
Sirveri Dec 2012 #37
Cleita Dec 2012 #5
RoccoR5955 Dec 2012 #6
progressoid Dec 2012 #7
TexasTowelie Dec 2012 #17
colsohlibgal Dec 2012 #8
Brigid Dec 2012 #27
lightcameron Dec 2012 #9
julian09 Dec 2012 #28
Incitatus Dec 2012 #38
Dont call me Shirley Dec 2012 #10
Swede Atlanta Dec 2012 #11
onethatcares Dec 2012 #12
lpbk2713 Dec 2012 #13
Purrfessor Dec 2012 #15
humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #16
TexasTowelie Dec 2012 #18
GiaGiovanni Dec 2012 #23
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #36
santamargarita Dec 2012 #46
UndahCovah Dec 2012 #19
LiberalLovinLug Dec 2012 #52
russspeakeasy Dec 2012 #21
jorno67 Dec 2012 #31
russspeakeasy Dec 2012 #34
donnasgirl Dec 2012 #22
99Forever Dec 2012 #24
Brigid Dec 2012 #30
Politicub Dec 2012 #25
Rider3 Dec 2012 #26
libdem4life Dec 2012 #29
jorno67 Dec 2012 #33
libdem4life Dec 2012 #59
woo me with science Dec 2012 #40
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #41
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #42
dickthegrouch Dec 2012 #43
WillyT Dec 2012 #44
santamargarita Dec 2012 #45
triplepoint Dec 2012 #47
Taverner Dec 2012 #48
tledford Dec 2012 #49
blkmusclmachine Dec 2012 #50
Recursion Dec 2012 #51
mlevans Dec 2012 #53
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #54
midnight Dec 2012 #55
livingonearth Dec 2012 #57
midnight Dec 2012 #58
livingonearth Dec 2012 #56

Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:02 PM

1. You would think so, but is what they did actually illegal under current law ? n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:42 PM

32. Nope. 30 years of ruling class legislation has rendered ERISA completely impotent.

 

Today owners can do anything they want with pension funds including pocketing it on their way out the door.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:35 AM

39. Happens all the time. My father-in-law worked for Nortel for 30 years. Pension cut in HALF.

 

Nortel went bankrupt, cut everyone's pensions in half.

Frankly, I'm surprised someone doesn't go postal over something like this. Lots of people have planned their entire lives on these pensions. Planned to pay for homes, college tuitions, retirement, and more. And then, after 30 years of work, to be told, "Oops. Sorry about that. That deal you thought you made? We're cancelling it."

They should have to sell the pencils before touching pensions.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:02 PM

2. they should but - it's legal

happens all the time

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Response to Skittles (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:36 PM

20. IMHO, that in itself is a crime

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:02 PM

3. It only goes one way in a plutocracy.

nt.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:03 PM

4. If he personally was reimbursed with pension funds ...

... wouldn't that be embezzlement?

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Response to IggleDoer (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:46 PM

14. Essentially, the law

permits them to underfund their pension fund liabilities and use the difference anyway they choose. Imagine that.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:50 AM

35. people should know that. it makes it more obvious that putting money into private pensions is a

 

crapshoot.

i've been reading about pension problems for years, but the information was so random and non-detailed that it was hard to figure out what happened or how much the retirees eventually wound up getting.

but i'd bet a lot of money has been stolen.

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Response to sulphurdunn (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:41 AM

37. Close, it technically has to be used for 'operational expenses'.

Sadly, CEO compensation is consider an operating expense.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:06 PM

5. There are two sets of laws, one for us and one for them.

If we did what they did, for sure we would be in prison. But it seems if you are a multi-millionaire CEO or Wall Street mucky muck, the laws don't apply to you. Just sayin'.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:38 PM

6. But, but, they're the JOB CREATORS!

Yeah, more like job CREMATORS, if you ask me! Throw them in jail for a long time... Better yet, tar and feathers is not too good for them!

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:38 PM

7. As long as he didn't do it while smoking pot.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:03 PM

17. LOL!

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:40 PM

8. Big Money Rules

Nobody big on Wall Street paid for their massive textbook fraud that caused the crash in 2008, so this is the same old same old - and it's getting old to some of us.

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Response to colsohlibgal (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:53 PM

27. That's what struck me when I watched "Inside Job."

Nobody went to jail for all that fraud!

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:40 PM

9. Which law did they break?

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Response to lightcameron (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:58 PM

28. I don't know, but that money belonged to the workers

 

I know that the company puts the money in the pension fund; which is part of the workers compensation. It's like you get a paycheck and before you cash it they cancel it. Unless the union let them borrow it, it shouldn't be touched. They should have a law protecting workers pensions, especially if the company isn't profitable. They are going bankrupt and don't worry about paying money back.

Should get Elizabeth Warren on this.

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Response to lightcameron (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:46 AM

38. None

And neither did plantation owners when they beat their slaves.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:41 PM

10. Claw the pension money back from the execs, they STOLE the pension money

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:44 PM

11. This is America....

 

If you are wealthy or a position in power in business you can screw your employees over for your own benefit without a single thought. There is virtually NO oversight of corporate malfeasance today. I think Dodd-Frank was a good start but it is probably 10% of what we need.

I am all for businesses to thrive and flourish but not to enable executives, LEGALLY, to screw their employees and walk off with millions in loot.

We used to hunt these types down and shoot them dead.

Today, we give them golden parachutes and they move on to the next company to rape, pillage and plunder.

Talk about "values". The only value they have in mind is their net value at the end of each and every day. Screw a few thousand employees by laying them off or snarfing up their pension money to pay for my new pool? Pfffff... only little people pay taxes.

This is the level of entitlement the rich have. We talk about entitlements. Let's talk about the REAL entitlements with corporate welfare and the allowance for corporate executives to fleece stakeholders and employee so they can buy a few new homes.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:44 PM

12. There for a minute I thought this thread was

going to be about the LIBOR scandal or Jamie Dimond, or drug money being laundered with no threat of prosecution.

Hostess is small potatos although it is potatos.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:44 PM

13. The 1%ers helped themselves to it because they could.




In their eyes the other 99% only exist to be taken advantage of.


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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:46 PM

15. It's called trickle up pensionomics!! eom

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:56 PM

16. The teabags at my job said..

Good for the CEO's, this is all the fault of the union. They say that the union should have took the deal with the small pay cuts for a couple of years, so they say the unions are what bankrupt Hostess, according to them now all the Obama voters (union workers) can just go get their EBT, Food Stamps, and Obama Phones and everything will be just fine, just add more to the deficit that our kids will have to pay and less union dues being laundered back to corrupt democrat politicians.

This thought process of theirs really bugs me at my job, because I work for a defense contractor, and I am convinced that they have already arranged with the managers that any layoffs that come down due to the sequestration should be handed out to those who are known to support Obama or Democratic policies in general, their position is that those that enable a society of people that exist on some form of subsistance should be the first forced out onto such subsistance because according the the teaheads they would rather work even if they have to take a pay or benefit cut to keep their job...

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:12 PM

18. My sympathies.

I bet that they also are preaching the gloom-and-doom scenario for the next four years. It can be depressing listening to them.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:50 PM

23. They won't understand until it happens to them

 

And by then, we'll all be too underpaid and poor to help them.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:52 AM

36. you know, i have always felt that solidarity, even with clueless scumbags, is important. but

 

Last edited Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:49 AM - Edit history (1)

sometimes i can't help wishing people like that would just get hit by lightning or something.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:53 PM

46. The fucked up mind of a brainwashed teabagger.

I bet they make their oligarch masters proud.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:15 PM

19. SHOULD somebody go to jail?

 

Yes...WILL somebody go to jail? Doubtful. Its the same the world over. The rich do as they please while we struggle to get by.

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Response to UndahCovah (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:22 PM

52. Somebodies might just go to jail

If these ex-workers and supporters go out on the street to protest...especially visout zee papers.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:39 PM

21. Even if it was completely illegal, the current justice department

would not prosecute.

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Response to russspeakeasy (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:34 PM

31. couldn't we pressure them somehow?

Like a lobbyist that represents the people...or a petition...or a hostage situation

On edit: I'm not really calling for a hostage situation

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Response to jorno67 (Reply #31)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:34 PM

34. They don't seem to pay much attention.

They won't venture very far out of their comfort zone.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:45 PM

22. Plain and simple

This is theft

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:54 PM

24. What?

And take up perfectly good prison space that could hold pot smokers?


Surely you jest.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:03 PM

30. You win.

Progressoid gets an Honorable Mention.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:51 PM

25. Are the rich having a contest for who can fuck the country up most?

Or angling to be the most hated people in the US?

If there were any justice, the hostess execs would be stripped of all their ill gotten gains and have it given to the rightful owners - the employees.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:50 PM

26. Sure they should!

However, in our pathetic environment, these people pull in HUGE amounts of money taken from the actual workers, and then blame the workers for the company's demise. Yep... Good American values.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:02 PM

29. At best it deserves a new verb ... to romney ... to screw the worker and abscond with the loot.

or the former jobs to a foreign country.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:22 PM

33. I like the way you think...

But I'd rather that name fade away...

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Response to jorno67 (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:33 PM

59. Yeah, I agree. Just fun to think about it.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:48 AM

40. K&R

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:18 AM

41. Yes, he should go to prison for this.

As usual, CEOs want everything on their side of the ledger. This is why they sent all manufacturing abroad, and why federal tax cuts to corporations NEVER benefit the population of the U.S. Greed is what corporations are about.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:21 AM

42. Yet Congress FORCED the Post Office to OVERFUND their pension



If those execs steal the pension funds, I would not want to be them.

The money may make them feel smug, but the hate that will follow them is not gonna be pretty.

This SHOULD be illegal. Our Congress SUCKS!


K & R

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:43 AM

43. Can the workers sue in small claims court for restitution?

Individually. Every month?
1800 individual lawsuits each month against the members of the compensation committee would be a mighty fine punishment.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:44 PM

44. In A Just World... Yes !!!

& Rec !!

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 01:45 PM

45. The prisons should be stuffed full of these...

criminal assholes.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:15 PM

47. For These CEOs, The World Is Their Open Air Prison

 

and the "General Population" is sure to be "welcoming" them to the Monkey House.....for the rest of their hopefully short, pathetic, greedy, heartless lives.
.
.
.
.
Now, let's hear from George Carlin about the "Big Club" these asshole CEOs appear to be in:
.
.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:19 PM

48. These CEOs are the terrorists, the madmen...

 

Far more dangerous than Al Queda

As Chris Rock said, 'I'm not afraid of Al Queda, I'm afraid of Al Cracker!'

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:24 PM

49. They'll be tended to post-revolution. eom

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:15 PM

50. Too Big To Jail. It rhymes with Too Big To Fail.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 03:16 PM

51. Counterintuitively, debt is an asset

So they did give assets in the appropriate amount to the pension fund, it's just that the assets are now-worthless debt.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:19 PM

53. Well, the short answer is "yes". Someone should.

The longer answer is still "yes," but includes a great deal of profanity.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:32 PM

54. Absolutely jail

If they don't start taking these crimes seriously and punishing them, one can almost hear the creaking wheels of Le Rasoir National. A back will not bend forever.

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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 04:34 PM

55. Steal the workers pensions, and then blame workers for destroying the company because they are Union

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Response to midnight (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:09 PM

57. And then they wonder why people want to unionize.

It never dawns on them that it is their actions in the first place causing workers to organize. Unions may not be able to stop this kind of thing now, but unions is where the solution needs to start.

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Response to livingonearth (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:43 PM

58. livingonearth welcome to D.U. I think these CEO know what they are doing, but think we don't...

They set hard working people up to take the fall for their crimes... But they have the laws written for them so they can get away with it scott free. I agree Unions need to come up with another way to address these crimes in the courts...


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Response to jorno67 (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 05:03 PM

56. These same assholes are the kind who are against Social Security,

yet they create the conditions under which it is needed the most.

People don't get paid enough to save properly for retirement; the equity in their homes has been destroyed; and their pensions have been looted. You try to do everything right to not be a burden on society when you get old and they rob you blind while you're working your ass off for them. Thanks assholes.

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