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Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:03 AM

It's not over in Michigan. In fact, it's just beginning.

Quietly, and while thousands of protesters raged outside his office, Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder (R) signed into law Tuesday evening the right-to-work legislation that’s turned a national spotlight on his state.

Before the ink was dry on Michigan’s new laws, however, labor leaders were huddling to decide how to undo the Republican-controlled legislature’s signature achievement. The fight for union rights in Michigan is just beginning, they say.

Union activists told TPM Tuesday that they haven’t decided on the immediate course of action following Synder’s announcement. But they are actively mulling several options that could see the law dragged into the courts or placed before voters.

Whatever happens, the labor groups say, expect union attempts to exact political vengeance in 2014 when Snyder and other Republican members of the legislature who pushed the legislation are up for reelection.

The rest: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/whats-next-in-michigan.php?ref=fpblg

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Reply It's not over in Michigan. In fact, it's just beginning. (Original post)
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 OP
hlthe2b Dec 2012 #1
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #2
caraher Dec 2012 #15
a kennedy Dec 2012 #3
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #4
just us Dec 2012 #5
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #7
datasuspect Dec 2012 #12
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #19
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #10
reteachinwi Dec 2012 #6
a kennedy Dec 2012 #26
barbtries Dec 2012 #8
Johnny2X2X Dec 2012 #9
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #11
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #16
James48 Dec 2012 #18
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #22
whathehell Dec 2012 #24
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #28
whathehell Dec 2012 #33
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #34
whathehell Dec 2012 #36
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #37
whathehell Dec 2012 #38
handmade34 Dec 2012 #13
santamargarita Dec 2012 #14
Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #17
Initech Dec 2012 #20
progressoid Dec 2012 #21
a kennedy Dec 2012 #25
musiclawyer Dec 2012 #23
0rganism Dec 2012 #30
Peace Patriot Dec 2012 #27
michigandem58 Dec 2012 #29
MichiganVote Dec 2012 #31
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #32
Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #35

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:07 AM

1. I would hope so...(exact political vengeance in 2014)

I'd never advocate nor condone violence of any kind, but I can fantasize about a big ole tar'n'feathering, can't I? Oh, Cantor is on my TV box--- tonights dream will add him to the mix.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:12 AM

2. You sig. line says it soooooo well. "Those who cannot remember the past are

condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana"

I'm woefully afraid this is what's going on in America now. Many just do not understand what was brought to them by unions that they enjoy today. And that will be stripped away as this continues. Nothing is so weak and malleable as a willfully ignorant mind.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:16 PM

15. And this all gets back to education

How many in Michigan know their own state's rich labor history? In an age where we have multiple cable channels dedicated to financial news of possible relevance only to the wealthy but the notion of a "labor news" channel would be derided as an absurdity, schools should play a key role in passing on the history of ordinary people. Instead we have an obsessive focus on standardized testing and preparing the next generation of WalMart "associates"

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:02 AM

3. Sorry, but I give you Wisconsin.....

gop govenor, gop senate, gop assembly. Nuff said. The stupid people of Wisconsin voted them all back in and couldn't recall the bastard to begin with.

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Response to a kennedy (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:13 AM

4. A lot of Dumb in one short post.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #4)


Response to just us (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:24 AM

7. Come again?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:01 PM

12. "sit on your balls" is the phrase of the day!

 

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Response to datasuspect (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:03 PM

19. I looked down and was horrified at what I discovered

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Response to just us (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:41 AM

10. Can you spell "projection"??? nm

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:24 AM

6. My stupid state

 

Hopefully we got to see fully and embarrassingly a failed and failing tactic.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:23 PM

26. Thank you, I enjoy being concise.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:29 AM

8. i really wanted to hear this.

just that: it's a long way from over.
we need huge numbers of people to get active though. save labor in this country, save the working poor, save the middle class. it's going to take strikes and protests and lawsuits and no doubt, years, to put this right.
oh yeah and we need to get republicans out of positions of power. they abuse that power for the plutocracy and will never care about the vast majority of americans.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:34 AM

9. Question

What would stop Unions from negotiating only for their membbers? And on top of that say negotiating a lower wage for non memebers. Say the UAW negotiates that not only all Union memebers at a shop make $22 an hour and get good benefits, but that nall non Union members must be paid minimum wage and lousy benefits?

The Unions really need to get tough here. Sacrifices are going to have to be made. Strikes and picket lines.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:59 AM

11. Generally, gains by unions apply to non-union workers also.

And sometimes unions step up for non-union workers in cases of worker/foreman disputes, etc. That's quite magnaminous of them, but can they continue to do so?

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:32 PM

16. That is the worst suggestion ever

In fact, unions must become radicalized, like in other parts of the world. You fight for the working class...we are the working class.

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Response to Johnny2X2X (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:42 PM

18. Federal Labor Law.

"What would stop Unions from negotiating only for their members? And on top of that say negotiating a lower wage for non memebers."- Johnny2X2X asks.

Answer: Federal Labor Law- The National Labor Relations Act, makes it illegal to treat non-members who are represented in the bargaining unit differently that dues payers.

Unions have exclusive bargaining status under the National Labor Relations Act,
29 U.S.C. § 159(a) (2006), the Railway Labor Act, 45 U.S.C. § 152 (2006), and public
sector labor laws. See, e.g., Abood v. Detroit Bd. of Educ., 431 U.S. 209, 223–24 (1977)
(applying Mich. Comp. Laws § 423.211 (1970)); Int’l Ass’n of Machinists v. Street, 367 U.S.
740, 757–58, 760–61 (1961) (applying Railway Labor Act).

A Union cannot legally treat dues payers and freeriders differently in conractural represenational matters.

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Response to James48 (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:12 PM

22. You have to represent everyone, but you don't have to give parasites a seat at the table

The parasites used to complain that we didn't invite them to our meetings when negotiation tactics and bargaining positions were being discussed. One of them filed a ULP and the NLRB told them to go pound sand.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:04 PM

24. Correct. My spouse was the shop steward in a RTW shop

and whatever the formal rules, non-union members got

"minimal representation" unofficially affixed to their names when/if

they got in trouble with management.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:27 PM

28. You can't do anything overtly that suggests union members get better representation

However, there were a number of covert things stewards could do to parasites. I use to chuckle when a parasite would file a grievance. It was up to the steward to schedule a meeting with management, so I would inevitably put my request in to schedule a meeting when the parasite was not on shift. I'd also put my request in almost at the last minute and bury it in the bottom of the boss' inbox. When the time limit for negotiating the grievance would run out, I'd shrug my shoulders and tell them I tried. I just never would try that hard.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:42 AM

33. Exactly.

What you describe sounds like the equivalent of a worker "slow down".

Just curious -- Did this treatment prove helpful in turning parasites into dues

paying members?

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Response to whathehell (Reply #33)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:47 AM

34. I never worried too much about recruitment

The company was actually our best recruitment tool.

I wasn't going to do any favors for someone who was obviously against better pay, safety, and working conditions for the sake of greedily saving a few dollars each paycheck. That's why I call them parasites. I wasn't going to beg someone to do themselves a favor and never saw the point.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:11 AM

36. I wasn't thinking of active recruitment, actually.

I was just wondering if any were smart enough to realize that

they weren't going to get much in terms of representation if they

were too cheap to pay dues.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:46 AM

37. They get pretty much the same as everyone else

They get a contract that guarantees them higher wages, safer working conditions, fair treatment, and better benefits. They simply see everyone else who ponies up as suckers who pay for benefits they receive. I asked lots of non-dues payers the same question. I ask them if they would prefer to work with or without a contract. Without exception they all say they prefer to work with one. So I point out that makes them a parasite, by definition.

World English Dictionary
parasite (ˈpærəˌsaɪt)

— n
1. an animal or plant that lives in or on another (the host) from which it obtains nourishment. The host does not benefit from the association and is often harmed by it
2. a person who habitually lives at the expense of others; sponger
3. (formerly) a sycophant

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 05:29 PM

38. I heartily agree

with your use of the word "parasite" in the situation. How dare

the union be COMPELLED to provide a service for which it receives no renumeration?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:01 PM

13. oh, you mean the

"right to work for less" legislation

we MUST change the words and verbiage!!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:11 PM

14. Political vengeance on politicians and financial vengeance...

on the Koch suckers!!! Boycott and strike every business they own!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:33 PM

17. I have no doubt that there will be a stick. I hope that there is also a carrot.

There will be a backlash here. There can be no doubt about that.

My thought, and hope, was that Unions might also find some positive way to attract people once the new laws kick in.

The problem, as I understand it, is that people will be working under the same contract even if they are not paying union dues. This creates an incentive to not belong to the union.

The unions need to find ways to offset the cost of the dues.

I am just starting to toss out an example here, so don't take these next comments as anything to serious but....

What if unions started negotiating some type of discount for other union members on the products they are manufacturing?

That way the unions could attract members to other unions and not just their own. I know some of the benefit here is indirect but because this is really an attempt to de-fund the Democratic party then attracting members to any union is a benefit to all union members.



Oh, and just for the record. I am not a union member.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:03 PM

20. This shit should be unconstitutional. I thought we fought a war over slavery.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:07 PM

21. I'd like to think so

but after decades of knocking down unions, I fear this is the new norm. They have shrinking support from the public (even from Democrats ). And with States like Michigan electing anti-union douchbags, I start to lose faith.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:21 PM

25. and Wisconsin electing a foe of labor, I lost faith in the Wisconsin people in November.

They had their chance to change the direction the way Wisconsin was going....and they failed to recall wanker and voted in repubs that wanted his actions against labor to hold.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:14 PM

23. GOP statehouses will flip

Across the country in '14. Because of this one act by the Michigan governor

As my old boss once said, Republicans always step on their own dick. Always.

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Response to musiclawyer (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:59 PM

30. i wouldn't bet money on that if i were you

Aside from any propaganda, voter iD laws, and general dirty tricks by the republicans, there is a rather large, smelly elephant in this room and its name is gerrymander. The 2010 elections were a particularly unfortunate time for the Democrats to lose state houses in the rust belt, as the district lines have been redrawn following the census to make it nearly impossible for Democrats to win majorities of legislatures and US house seats.

Reclaiming the majorities we lost is not going to happen anytime soon. This is the beginning of a very long slog back to competitiveness. Every step of the journey is necessary, though. Democrats may have a shot at a house majority in 2032 if we stay motivated and diligently ensure that our voting blocs obtain their required IDs well in advance of the elections.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:47 PM

27. How about throwing the corporate-controlled 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines out of Michigan?

"Union activists ... are actively mulling several options that could see the law dragged into the courts or placed before voters." --from the OP

----------------------------------------

In CA, in the last election, a GMO food labeling initiative was defeated though it was way ahead in pre-election polls, and recently an initiative banning gay marriage won though CA is arguably the most socially progressive state in the country. Wisconsin, one of the other arguably most socially progressive states in the country elects...a Walker?

There are many examples like these of weird election outcomes--plus we have the most unrepresentative House of Representatives that's ever been seated, creating a situation in which the President has to spend his time defending Social Security???!!!

Here's what I think is going on. Bear in mind, first of all, that the corporate-run voting machines--containing 'TRADE SECRET' programming code--code that the public is forbidden to review--have now spread like a plague to every state, that half the states in the country do NO AUDIT AT ALL of these machines' results (comparison of ballots with machine totals) while the other half do only a miserably inadequate 1% audit, and that some 70% of these highly riggable machines are now owned and controlled by ONE, PRIVATE, FAR RIGHTWING-CONNECTED corporation (ES&S, which bought out Diebold).

I predicted this after Bush-Cheney was re-(s)elected in 2004, after torture revelations (NYT poll--64% against torture "under any circumstances"), no WMDs in Iraq (all polls, Feb. '03--56% against the war), Bush Jr. statements in favor of privatizing Social Security (polls--80% to 90% against), multiple tax cuts for the rich and other hugely unpopular policies, scandals and malfeasance. The 'TRADE SECRET' code machines were mostly installed in the 2002 to 2004 period, had been tested out in Georgia in 2002 with a 15% flip in the U.S. senate race (paraplegic Vietnam vet Max Cleland didn't lose to jerkwad Chambliss--he got Diebolded!) and were sufficiently up and running as riggable vote counting systems to be THE most important factor in the '04 election. (Exit polls said Kerry won; exit polls were then DOCTORED to exactly match Diebold results--election security activist got a screen shot of the exit polls before they were altered; that screen shot was the beginning of the election reform movement.)

What I think is happening--and what I predicted--is this: That those who control our vote counting systems will likely start to use their illicit power SELECTIVELY and more subtly after '04. '04 was essential to them in their forcing this country onto a fascist path (massive bankster/war profiteer looting, etc.) but the American people are potentially an extremely powerful progressive force in the world, once aroused, and are still strongly committed, in their hearts, to our democratic traditions. We are also a huge and culturally diverse nation--very hard to control with blunt force weapons. It was a dangerous gamble to Diebold Bush-Cheney into a second term. (Indeed, it filled Cheney-Rumsfeld with insane hubris--they were going to nuke Iran but got curtailed--and Rumsfeld ousted--by a coalition of military brass, CIA and Bush Sr. and his "Iraq Study Group" (of which Leon Panetta was a member) in '06.) So, what we are seeing now is a more careful and selective use of the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines, to (s)elect fascist governors (who will stomp on unions, for instance), to serve particular corporate interests (Monsanto/GMOs, California), to shave Obama's mandate (twice!) and shackle him with an insanely unrepresentative House (and not much better Senate), to better manipulate primaries so that no anti-corporate, anti-war Democrats get on ballots, etc.

When the unions and the Occupy movement get onto this--and start focusing their efforts on the actual usurpation of power that the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines make possible--then and only then will we begin to see progressive reform and real democracy.

That ONE, PRIVATE, FAR RIGHTWING-CONNECTED corporation is 'counting' most of our votes with 'TRADE SECRET' code is insane and ridiculous.

That this--THE most important news story and scandal in our history--has been 'black-holed' by the corporate media is mind-boggling.

We need a REAL "Boston Tea Party"--not this fake shit, the "Mad Tea Party" that Faux News and others have promoted. We need to throw these election rigging machines into 'Boston Harbor' (so to speak) and return the counting of our votes to the PUBLIC VENUE!

This is the BOTTOM-LINE of democracy--SEEING your vote counted. Lawsuits, ballot initiatives, "public pressure"--all the normal stuff that occurs in a democracy is useless until election transparency is restored. Until we wake up on this matter, those behind ES&S/Diebold will continue to play our system like a piano.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:38 PM

29. Got to win at the ballot box

 

Huddle and vow revenge all you like, but winning elections is the only real way to get our state back.

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Response to michigandem58 (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 07:19 PM

31. And dumping Brewer. He's got to go.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:33 PM

32. We heard that about WI and Walker too

all of that camping out and pavement-pounding and hand-wringing amounted to an epic fail on the recall.

The only way to undo the damage wrought by the right wing is enact, in the Dem states, radical liberal and populist laws that basically make it illegal to act or vote like a Republican. Eventually the Red states will become unlivable and we'll have the civil war we're desperately in need of.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:59 AM

35. I was raised in Michigan

but haven't lived there my entire adult life. However I would think the signing of that law would create Wisconsin times 10!

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