HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Texas teacher tells kinde...

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:47 PM

Texas teacher tells kindergartners Santa isn’t real - all hell breaks loose

Kindergarten is a blissful time when life is all about finger painting, skipping rope, zipping down park slides and, of course, believing in Santa. Not the case for a group of 5-years-olds at a public school in Austin, Texas. The students’ teacher—who just might be the world’s Grinchiest Grinch—decided to tell her students that the man in a red suit is a fake. Suddenly, these kids were robbed of one of the great joys of childhood.

The Houston Press reports:

Late last week, a five-year-old girl came home from Austin’s Pease Elementary school with a question for her dad.

“Daddy,” she asked her father, “Is Santa real?”

Dad said yes, and wanted to know why his daughter asked.

“Because Mrs. Fuller” — the girl’s afters-chool teacher — “said he wasn’t real. She said ‘None of you believe in Santa do you?’ and said that you and mommy buy all our presents and put them under the tree. She said that you should tell us the truth.”


The girl’s parents were upset, especially since their daughter attended a Waldorf preschool that encouraged kids to believe in magical things like fairies. The parents felt that the teacher was wrong in pressing her beliefs on the students. They complained to the principal who reprimanded the teacher.

http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2012/12/05/texas-teacher-tells-kindergartners-santa-isnt-real/

115 replies, 6837 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 115 replies Author Time Post
Reply Texas teacher tells kindergartners Santa isn’t real - all hell breaks loose (Original post)
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2012 OP
msongs Dec 2012 #1
Mel Content Dec 2012 #4
AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #16
whathehell Dec 2012 #31
liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #39
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #38
cali Dec 2012 #82
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #99
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #83
Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #100
mrmpa Dec 2012 #109
marshall Dec 2012 #57
white_wolf Dec 2012 #64
marshall Dec 2012 #77
Warren Religion Dec 2012 #85
marshall Dec 2012 #98
deutsey Dec 2012 #101
CBGLuthier Dec 2012 #110
marshall Dec 2012 #113
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #84
jberryhill Dec 2012 #2
The2ndWheel Dec 2012 #9
jberryhill Dec 2012 #15
The2ndWheel Dec 2012 #24
jberryhill Dec 2012 #26
d_r Dec 2012 #30
pnwmom Dec 2012 #70
snot Dec 2012 #79
whathehell Dec 2012 #32
liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #40
raccoon Dec 2012 #102
Squinch Dec 2012 #112
deutsey Dec 2012 #103
smirkymonkey Dec 2012 #115
chelsea0011 Dec 2012 #3
ejpoeta Dec 2012 #63
pnwmom Dec 2012 #67
chelsea0011 Dec 2012 #114
juajen Dec 2012 #81
DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #5
Downwinder Dec 2012 #19
DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #49
DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #55
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2012 #111
mike_c Dec 2012 #6
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #13
Confusious Dec 2012 #52
mike_c Dec 2012 #61
onpatrol98 Dec 2012 #88
Squinch Dec 2012 #7
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #14
Squinch Dec 2012 #17
jberryhill Dec 2012 #18
Squinch Dec 2012 #20
jberryhill Dec 2012 #23
Squinch Dec 2012 #25
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #44
avebury Dec 2012 #50
Squinch Dec 2012 #54
pnwmom Dec 2012 #68
whathehell Dec 2012 #34
liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #41
Squinch Dec 2012 #48
dballance Dec 2012 #8
Confusious Dec 2012 #53
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #65
Kaleva Dec 2012 #58
onpatrol98 Dec 2012 #89
pnwmom Dec 2012 #95
pnwmom Dec 2012 #69
dballance Dec 2012 #80
onpatrol98 Dec 2012 #90
dballance Dec 2012 #92
pnwmom Dec 2012 #94
surrealAmerican Dec 2012 #10
liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #42
Initech Dec 2012 #11
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #12
whathehell Dec 2012 #35
pnwmom Dec 2012 #73
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #21
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #22
sarisataka Dec 2012 #27
whathehell Dec 2012 #36
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #45
duffyduff Dec 2012 #66
abelenkpe Dec 2012 #28
msongs Dec 2012 #29
avebury Dec 2012 #51
Flying Goat Dec 2012 #78
pnwmom Dec 2012 #75
lbrtbell Dec 2012 #33
MineralMan Dec 2012 #37
njcamden_25884 Dec 2012 #43
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #46
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #47
kiva Dec 2012 #72
pnwmom Dec 2012 #76
0rganism Dec 2012 #56
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #59
pnwmom Dec 2012 #71
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #86
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #96
deutsey Dec 2012 #104
gollygee Dec 2012 #105
gollygee Dec 2012 #60
yawnmaster Dec 2012 #62
RegieRocker Dec 2012 #74
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #87
Rex Dec 2012 #91
mfcorey1 Dec 2012 #93
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #97
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2012 #108
gordianot Dec 2012 #106
NiteOwll Dec 2012 #107

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:50 PM

1. wait til she tells the kids that jesus isnt real. then the merde will hit the ventilateur nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:57 PM

4. i'm going to go out on a limb here...

 

I'm guessing that Mrs. Fuller is probably the type who'll say that santa isn't real- but jesus is.

it is Texas, after all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mel Content (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:32 PM

16. Ah a fellow Texas hater

I lived there 15 years - and the kept pulling me back in! Finally got out to Arkansas, only to have Arkansas go completely red under my feet.

Still not as bad as Texas. Damn Texas Brush Poppers.

Mattie Ross: Are you going to let him do this, Marshal?
Rooster Cogburn: No, I don't believe I will. Put your switch away, LaBoeuf.
LaBoeuf: I aim to finish what I started!
Rooster Cogburn: It'll be the biggest mistake you ever made, you Texas brush-popper.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mel Content (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:15 PM

31. I'm guessing Mrs. Fuller won't be gainfully employed long enough

at least as a teacher, for that to happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to whathehell (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:37 PM

39. According to the article,

she was an "afterschool teacher", and those are usually just glorified babysitters who keep the kids busy until their parents pick them up, and not an actual, degreed kindergarten/elementary teachers. I think a trained, degreed teacher would have very well known not to do that and I've never heard of one who has (I grew up with teachers).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mel Content (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:36 PM

38. Which is exactly why she told a room full of

5-year-olds that Santa isn't real. Many fundamentalists object to the idea of Santa Claus. Miserable people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:26 AM

82. It's a Waldorf School

I doubt that a fundamentalist would teach at one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cali (Reply #82)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:30 AM

99. The child had attended a

Waldorf preschool. This was a public school Kindergarten class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:29 AM

83. Well you can add a bunch of posters in this thread to that list.

I don't suppose it's just a fundy thing, but certainly a miserable people thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Union Scribe (Reply #83)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:30 AM

100. Yep

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mel Content (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:26 PM

109. My nephew who was about 9 at the time............

sat on the couch next to me and asked me if Santa was real. I wasn't about to break the news to him & tell him the truth. I told him yes he was. He said, "but I don't understand how he gets all around the world". I thought about that and in the words of Cheech & Chong, I told hime "it's magic dust." He was satisfied. I later told his parents, and they howled.

This satisfied him & by the following Christmas he knew the truth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:21 PM

57. And cross off Buddha, Mohammad and the Easter Bunny

At least she's teaching reality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marshall (Reply #57)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 10:28 PM

64. Mohammad most certainly is real.

There is a wealth of historical evidence proving his existence. Most historians also acknowledge that Buddha was a real person due to the archaeological evidence and the fact that the Pali Cannon shows evidence that it was the work of a single person.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to white_wolf (Reply #64)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:21 PM

77. The historical man is much different than the myth

In each case, Mohammad, Buddha, Jesus, followers took a historical individual and created a legend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marshall (Reply #77)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:37 AM

85. Just like the Founding Fathers

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Religion (Reply #85)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 05:21 AM

98. True, people seem to have a need to create mythical heroes

You can even see it happening in modern day figures, from Kennedy to Chavez to Reagan. There is the real man, and then there is the larger than life man.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marshall (Reply #98)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:38 AM

101. Yes, I believe it's deeply engrained in human psychology

I think the PR/marketing folks in the entertainment industry intentionally play into that trait by creating larger-than-life auras around celebrities.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marshall (Reply #57)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:34 PM

110. I believe Buddha was real too.

very poor list there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #110)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:20 PM

113. They're all real in some sense--that's the point

Even the Easter Bunny, dating to the Goddess Oestre, could be based on some real world woman. The further back in history one goes with these myths, the more shrouded the origins become.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:30 AM

84. First reply. Huge surprise,

said no one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:53 PM

2. "One of the great joys of childhood" = "being lied to by adults"


Okay.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:21 PM

9. A debilitating lie

When kids get old enough to figure out on their own who's really putting the presents under the tree, have any of them gone off to a mental institution as a result?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:29 PM

15. I don't know

There are, however, a lot of stories of people who lost the ability to trust adults and others.

But, hey, anything that doesn't put a kid in a mental institution is fine. Is that the standard?

Children can be gullible and trusting. Mom & Dad say there is a Santa Claus who magically delivers gifts. Just like that nice man in the car who wants to offer me a ride to go see the reindeer, and who has a magical elf in his pants.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:44 PM

24. Lost the ability to trust adults and others because of Santa?

I can't help but think that Santa would be low on the list of things that would be so devastating.

So kids believe in Santa for a few years. Oh no, a 5 year old believes in something that doesn't exist. They should know the cold hard truth. They don't have decades of life's other, far larger disappointments ahead of them or anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:51 PM

26. Are you interested in the opinion of a qualified professional?


People react to things in different ways.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/12/05/santa-claus-innocent-fantasy-or-harmful-lie-2/

"Some children take the feeling of betrayal and confusion into adulthood, and it has long-lasting effects on the parent-child relationship."


Here's the thing.... children love to play "make believe", and parents do that with kids all of the time, with the understanding that it is fun to play "make believe", knowing that it is pretending. A cardboard box is a castle, a household pet is a terrifying monster.

Playing make believe doesn't spoil anyone's fun - not one bit. But there is this weird thing about insisting on the reality of Santa Claus, as if making that part of the fun all kids have with pretending, would take all of the fun out of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:07 PM

30. Oh. Good. Grief.

That essay is all opinion. And I think it is a silly one. And she isn't really saying much at all "just don't go to extreme's lying to children."
As for "qualified professional" fwiw, I'll stake my Ph.D. in Dev. Psych vs. Chaley-Ann Scott's BA in sociology.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:11 PM

70. But the teacher telling the kids that their parents weren't telling the truth to them

would have a much worse effect on the child than a parent -- in response to a child's questions -- explaining that Santa Claus was just pretend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:33 PM

79. Agreed--I felt sick to my stomach when I came across evidence that my parents had lied to me.

Sure, adults get big laughs out of the joke they play on kids.

It's not clear to me that the kids get much out of it.



Edited to add: That said, I think the teacher spoke out of turn. (But again, I don't understand how telling kids there's a Santa is supposed to help them.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:17 PM

32. +10

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:41 PM

40. I have never in my entire life known anyone

who was traumatized over the Santa "lie" or who had problems trusting adults as a result. It's just one of those childhood magic things, and it's generally not a big deal when you figure out it's not real. The kids who do have the most problems are the ones who usually already have family/parental problems, things like that.

I don't ever recall any kind of problem with it myself. I think I was about nine or so when I figured it out, but I don't exactly remember how. I just remember that one Christmas I did believe in Santa, and by the next I didn't, no big deal. I remember how much fun it was to believe in him, though, and I enjoyed my own son's fun with Santa.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #40)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:47 AM

102. That may be true, but why add another brick to the baggage they're already carrying around?


"The kids who do have the most problems are the ones who usually already have family/parental problems, things like that."

I know I felt betrayed and lied to when I finally found out Santa Claus wasn't real. I think that in a family where trust is already an issue this is likely to happen.

But I still have a problem with people insisting on lying to kids, saying Santa Claus is real. Why can't that just be make-believe like Mother Goose stories, SHREK, fairies, and so on?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to raccoon (Reply #102)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 06:16 PM

112. If that is what you have chosen for your children, I respect that and would never dream of

working against your wishes and insisting to your children that Santa is real.

On the other hand, if you were a parent who wants your child to have the experience of Santa Clause, I likewise would never dream of working against your wishes and telling the child that Santa is a parental lie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #40)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 08:49 AM

103. Yeah, I figured it out when in was in 2nd grade

and was able to enjoy Christmas and my mom for many years afterward.

What has put me off of Christmas today is the insane commercialism around it. I'm not a Scrooge about it (like going around scowling and telling people how much I hate this form of Christmas), but I do very little in terms of participating in Christmas anymore. I still spend time with family, but on a personal level I focus more on the solstice aspect of the season and reflect on the growing darkness as the daylight grows shorter while looking forward to the slow return of the sun and longer days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #40)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:24 PM

115. Same here. I loved believing in Santa Claus and gradually I found out that he didn't exist.

I never blamed my parents for lying to me, nor did I feel disappointed. It was just a part of growing up. Christmas started out being magic for me and I never forgot that. My parents did their best to make it that way.

I still love those memories and I love seeing my neices and nephews excited about it all over again. Sooner or later they will grow out of it, but I doubt they will be disappointed. They will know their parents had their best interests in mind. Besides, they will always get presents, whether they come from "Santa" or from Mom and Dad. I think they will turn out fine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 06:57 PM

3. My parenting style was just the opposite of this father

My children could believe in Santa as long as they like, but when they asked me the first time if Santa was real the truth comes out. I always got a kick out of parents who did all they could to prolong the obvious ending.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 10:25 PM

63. my feeling is as long as they don't ruin it for the younger ones....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:05 PM

67. This is about the teacher, not the parent. The teacher brought up the subject

Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:07 PM - Edit history (1)

and took it upon herself to tell the children their parents were lying to them.

I would answer truthfully when my children asked. But I would have been mad at any kindergarten teacher who decided it was her job to disillusion children.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #67)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:02 PM

114. It wouldn't have made me mad if this happened to my child in K school.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to chelsea0011 (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:23 AM

81. I always told mine this, "If you don't believe, no more presents from Santa."

Seemed to solve that problem big time. Of course, having a teenager that believed in Santa was a little embarrassing sometimes. We still relay that great information to grandchildren. Also is good for the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:00 PM

5. Our Santa died behind the wheel last month.

David "Lumpy" Williams had been Santa for several generations of kids in our little town.

To kids in our town, Lumpy was Santa.

He was one of the coolest guys on the planet.

Christmas will not be the same, for a while.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Downwinder (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:09 PM

49. There was not a dry eye in the house

Lumpy was one of a kind, the real deal.

Lumpy was Santa...
DBH

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:35 PM

111. sorry to hear that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:11 PM

6. "pressing her beliefs on students...."

In my day they called it "telling the truth."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mike_c (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:27 PM

13. Yeah, that isn't "pressing beliefs"

wtf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mike_c (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:17 PM

52. You must be fun to date

"how do I look in this?"

Like shit. No really, you look like shit. What? It's the truth!

"does this make me look fat?"

Yea, looks like you put on an extra small animal. What? It's the truth.

Sheesh.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Confusious (Reply #52)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:36 PM

61. pffft....

Yes, your ass looks big today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mike_c (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:41 AM

88. I told my kids...no Santa

Although I had no problems telling my own children there was no Santa...I've never felt the need to tell anyone else's children there was no Santa. Why not leave it to their parents? Did she run out of other things to talk about? ABCs, counting, colors, etc...wasn't enough?

Maybe she should have stuck to the lesson plan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:16 PM

7. Nah. Santa is fun, and it isn't the teacher's place to be disabusing kids of the notion of Santa.

Any more than it is the place of a teacher to pass his or her religious beliefs to the kids in his/her class. It's the other side of the same coin. Both are equally stepping over the line.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:27 PM

14. It's not like a teacher witnessing their religious beliefs

WTF.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:34 PM

17. It's a teacher interfering in a place that is none of her business. If the family wants to have

Santa, it's not her decision to say they can't do that.

Just as if the family doesn't want to have Christianity thrown at the child in school, it's not up to the teacher to decide to override them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:36 PM

18. The story doesn't provide the complete context


If the teacher were asked a direct question, what is the teacher ethically supposed to do?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:39 PM

20. I work with kids. That's one of the times I would say, "ask your mother."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:43 PM

23. And if the kid asks you "But what do YOU believe?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:48 PM

25. I'd say, "I believe you should ask your mother." Seriously. No way I'm answering that question

for a kid.

It is not up to me to confirm or deny. Just like, if a child asks me, "Do you believe in Jesus?" I'm going to say, "I don't talk about my religion in school."

We are allowed to say to kids, in so many words, "we're not going to talk about that."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:49 PM

44. I don't agree

I also think if a child asks a teacher if Santa exists, there is nothing wrong with the teacher telling the truth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:11 PM

50. Agreed. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:20 PM

54. If I were someone who thought the experience of Santa was essential to a happy childhood -

(of course I don't, but there are those out there who do) - and your child asked me, and I went against your wishes and said, "yes, I absolutely believe in Santa" would that be acceptable?

I don't think it's responsible for a professional working with kids to be addressing this question at all. It is up to the parents how they handle this. To some families it is very important that their children have the experience.

I understand from your comments that you think it is not a good thing to do to children, and I know that there are many who think the way you do. But that is not the point. There are many who agree with you and many who disagree with you. It is not appropriate for any school professional to override the wishes of families on either side of this discussion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:07 PM

68. Actually, it is. And she's also telling these kids

that their parents have been lying to them.

This is a conversation parents should have been having with their own children, when the time was right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:19 PM

34. Agreed. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Squinch (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:45 PM

41. Now, that I do agree with.

It was not this woman's place to cross that boundary and she was out of line. But I certainly don't think it's anywhere near the "tragedy" that these too-dramatic parents are claiming, and they need to get a grip.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:04 PM

48. True.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:18 PM

8. She was reprimanded for NOT LYING to kids?

That's all sorts of wrong and if I were her I'd fight to get that reprimand off my record. "The parents felt that the teacher was wrong in pressing her beliefs on students." Seriously? Like pressing the belief the sun comes up in the east and sets in the west on them? Or that water is wet?

What the heck is a "Waldorf" school and why do we call it any sort of educational institution if it teaches kids to believe in fairies?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dballance (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:20 PM

53. It's kindergarten

Boy a bunch of fucking killjoys around here.

Might as well start showing them pictures of dead people around the world as soon as they come out of the womb.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Confusious (Reply #53)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 10:33 PM

65. I'm certainly glad I didn't encounter any of these oh-so-solemn-must-tell-the-truth

magic and humor deprived types when I was a kid.

I guess some miserable people just enjoy spoiling things for everyone else.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dballance (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:26 PM

58. She wouldn't be lying if she told the kids that their parents will die sometime in the future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kaleva (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:49 AM

89. ???

Shucks...since I think she should have left the Santa talk for Mom and Dad and stuck to the alphabet, I sure as heck don't think she has a reason to discuss the death of parents to Kindergartners.

Why would she have a reason to tell a classroom of someone else's 5 year olds...so, kiddos? Your mom and dad are going to die some day. What's her follow up? By the way, you're going to die also. I know you're only five or six, but I felt compelled to discuss the death of your parents.

DU can be straight up crazy some days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #89)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:58 AM

95. I think you misunderstood the previous post.

I think the point was this: just because a teacher could truthfully say: "Your parents are not telling you the truth about Santa Claus" OR "Your parents are guaranteed to die someday" doesn't mean she SHOULD say either thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dballance (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:08 PM

69. She was reprimanded for bringing up the subject and taking it upon herself

to tell the children their parents hadn't been telling them the truth.

That's very different from "not lying." She was the one who asked the question and gave the answer, not the kids.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pnwmom (Reply #69)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:51 PM

80. You're Serious?

A teacher should bring up subjects and ask questions.

There are a lot of parents who don't believe in evolution. Do you believe teachers shouldn't teach well established science which might cause kids to think their parents were lying to them if they had been teaching them at home that the earth is only 6,000 years old?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dballance (Reply #80)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:53 AM

90. Doubtful

I'm thinking apparently her school thought she should bring up other subjects...besides, by the way, your parents are lying to you.

Then again, if she's an after school teacher, her job may have simply been to help with homework and make sure the kids were safe and sound until their parents retrieved them. Really, I'm thinking that should have been enough to keep her busy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onpatrol98 (Reply #90)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:21 AM

92. Okay, I'll Concede "Your Parents are Lying to You About Santa"

is really not a topic a teacher their daily or after school teacher should be taking on for such young kids.

I haven't the foggiest idea what this person was thinking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dballance (Reply #80)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:55 AM

94. I'm absolutely serious. No teacher of 5 year olds should say

"None of you believe in Santa Claus, do you?" and then tell them their parents have been telling them lies.

Science IS in the curriculum. Santa Claus is NOT. At some point, what children learn about science will make them question the Santa Claus story. Then they can ask questions and get answers.

But this teacher had no business spoiling Christmas for these 5 years olds -- and telling them that their parents were liars.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:24 PM

10. What exactly is ...

... an "after-school teacher" at a Waldorf preschool?

Shouldn't this person be called a babysitter, rather than a teacher?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:47 PM

42. That's exactly the point I was making elsewhere in this thread.

Afterschool teachers are not trained, degreed, actual teachers, they are glorified babysitters who keep kids busy until they're picked up to go home. An actual teacher would have known not to have done this despite any personal beliefs, that there are boundaries you simply do not cross and it is NOT your place to do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:25 PM

11. Here comes Fail Clause....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:25 PM

12. Every year this happens, and I say "meh"

The teacher told the truth.

I figured out the Santa thing when I was first grade, and I still always enjoyed Xmas, and thought it was fun and magical.

The teacher shouldn't have been disciplined for this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:27 PM

35. Easy "meh" for you. You were a year older and

were allowed to figure it out YOURSELF. Big difference.

I suspect this teacher will be finding another occupation shortly

and I'd say that's a good thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:16 PM

73. The teacher volunteered the info that their parents had been lying to them.

That would be much more harmful than if the parents had told the children themselves, in response to children's questions.

No teacher should take it upon himself or herself to interfere with this family tradition.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:42 PM

21. What a dumbass grinch of a teacher to spoil the kids' fun.

Believing in Santa was one of the most magical things in my childhood, and in my kids' too. As we all know, there are about a million ways to evade the question if asked directly without having to "lie".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:43 PM

22. This isn't about "truth"; it's about USURPING parental rights.

The teacher could also say:

"You know your dog doesn't really go to Heaven when it dies, don't you?"

And other unsavory truths, but WHY? To KINDERGARTEN kids?







Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:51 PM

27. I believe there are many

who would support the teacher if she said:

"You don't go to heaven when you die either. They will put you in the ground and worms will eat your body."

After all she told the "truth"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:28 PM

36. Thank you. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:49 PM

45. Except those are beliefs, not facts

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #45)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:02 PM

66. Santa Claus is a legend based on a real person

The stupid teacher had no business shooting off her stupid mouth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 07:59 PM

28. My five year old son told his classmates the same thing couple years ago nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to abelenkpe (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:03 PM

29. was he fired from his job as child in kindergarten lol nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to abelenkpe (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:16 PM

51. Luckily for the children of the

world I never had two legged children (I prefer the four legged variety because I would never raise a child to believe in Santa. Instead, I would focus on the true meaning of Christmas. Any child of mine would have been the one telling his/her class there is no such thing as Santa.

I would encourage imagination and make believe, just no in the area of Santa.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to avebury (Reply #51)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:29 PM

78. The meaning of Christmas?

Isn't it to put the retail industry ahead for the year?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to abelenkpe (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:18 PM

75. That's completely different,

although I asked my kids not to tell their friends, who still believed.

But when a child says it, it's like they're letting the other kids in on a special secret. Everybody can feel one-up on the grown-ups.

When a teacher tells kids their parents have been lying to them, it's putting the teacher and the parents at odds -- not a good thing to do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:17 PM

33. I proved for myself that Santa's not real

I suspected Santa was B.S. So at the age of 4, I stayed up all night waiting for him. My family couldn't believe it the next day, when I confronted them about lying to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:30 PM

37. Figured that out myself at age 5. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:48 PM

43. aww

 

poor kids. Must be tough facing reality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:49 PM

46. I would tell a child the truth about Santa if asked

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #46)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 08:52 PM

47. That's OK, for *your* kids. But I hope you wouldn't for someone else's kids.

Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:59 AM - Edit history (1)

Unless you want their parents to hate you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #46)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:13 PM

72. And if they are your kids that's fine.

If they aren't your kids it isn't OK - it's really not up to you to decide how and when other people's kids learn about this stuff. If they are adults and still believe in Santa, go for it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #46)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:19 PM

76. The teacher wasn't asked; she volunteered the info,

after asking, "None of you believe in Santa, do you?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:20 PM

56. an important part of the Santa myth is having the parents tell the child about it

The idea, as I understand it (wasn't raised Xian myself) is that when the child reaches about 8 or 9, if they haven't already figured it out, is the parents tell them and then they start helping with putting out presents for their younger siblings. This enables the transition from "mythical flying judgeman in a red suit" Santa to "spirit of Holiday giving" Santa, which is more appropriate for mature people and justifies the whole bizarre holiday shopping season. The little kids have magical kiddy fun and the older children learn something about caring and responsibility for their families.

For a Kindergarten *babysitter* to break the news out of some kind of personal vendetta does make a farce of the whole process. In short, it wasn't a pointless lie until she made it into one. Damn straight, if I was a parent, I'd be pissed at her too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #56)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:26 PM

59. Yes, the older kids delight in keeping the secret and playing along for the younger ones.

It's a magical time. Nobody wants humorless grim child-haters to ruin it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #56)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:13 PM

71. Yes, that's basically how it works. I was the oldest and when I found out

I was briefly disappointed. Then I became "Santa's helper" and enjoyed keeping the fun alive for a few more years.

My brother, the youngest, said he pretended to believe for quite a while, because he wanted to make sure the Santa train didn't end.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:47 AM

86. beautiful explanation

thanks, that is how it works around here as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:32 AM

96. There were different legends


depending on which side of my family was telling the story, but when we kids figured it out we were told two things:

A) Santa is in your heart blah blah blah

B) DO NOT spoil it for the younger siblings and cousins and schoolmates.

There were a lot of other traumas awaiting me in life; learning that Santa was "not real" was not one of them.





And anyway, I still believe.




P.S. I have a little FSM waiting to go in the manger








Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:05 AM

104. That's how I've heard many people approach it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:07 AM

105. Why are you calling this teacher a *babysitter*??

Oh, I see she's an after-school worker? Sorry - she is maybe more of a babysitter than teacher.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:36 PM

60. People so overthink some things

My oldest believed in santa only until she was 4. She's a smart one. The little one is almost 4 and is in full belief mode.

I wouldn't go to any extremes or outright lie to them. If they ask is Santa is real (as the older one did at 4), I ask, "What do you think?" She said she thought it was probably pretend, and I said, that's right but it's a lot of fun and you can keep playing the game if you want. And she did for a few years after that.

It's just a bit of fun.

I wouldn't like it if a teacher made a big issue of it and told the whole class Santa isn't real just because she had an opinion about the issue and thought parents shouldn't do the whole Santa thing, but on the other hand if my daughter had asked a teacher instead of me, I don't see why it would be an issue if the teacher had told her the truth instead of me. I wouldn't want the teacher to outright lie to my child either. I'd say either gently tell the truth, or else tell the child to ask me, but either seems like an acceptable way to handle it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 09:44 PM

62. As a child Mrs. Fuller was on the naughty list and her parents had to buy the Santa...

gifts for her.
That is why Santa never visited her house and why she thinks parents actually buy all the gifts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 11:17 PM

74. Real bright...

 

Teaching kids......not teaching common sense that is for sure....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:52 AM

87. I guess next teach will be pressing believes

By talking about gravity...

That said, five is borderline for both. Kids have a heck of a time telling real from fantasy at five...it is basic child development.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:53 AM

91. Good idea, we need to make sure that kids know

Santa is real. That silly teacher, doesn't she believe in the tooth fairy? I'd say at least she is a fan of Mr. Scrooge.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 02:26 AM

93. Santa isn't real? Dang, there goes my iPad!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 03:34 AM

97. K & R



For excellence in thread title.

I lol'd




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tsiyu (Reply #97)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:06 PM

108. lol. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 09:59 AM

106. Honestly a sign of poor judgement by the teacher there are bound to be more examples.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:44 AM

107. I had to have seven years of intensive therapy after I found out Santa wasn't "real"

I have major trust issues. I've never been able to trust my parents, especially. Whenever they tell me good news, I wonder if they're deliberately trying to hurt me with a lie.

Gimme a break.

I will always believe in Santa Claus. And now I'm the one putting the gifts under the tree on Christmas Eve. I feel sorry for people who have no wonder and imagination in their lives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread