Mon Dec 10, 2012, 10:47 PM

BrentWil (2,192 posts)

Our future is center-left not far-left. The business community and DLC, not OWS

Mic Check....

At one time, OWS received a lot of love on DU. However, it wasn't a relevant movement. The last election wasn't won because of groups like OWS. The last election was won because we were the lesser of two evils, in many minds. The American people don't want radical change. They want moderate reforms. With moderate reforms, we are much more likely to find allies in the business community, then a group like OWS. In an age where the tea party is coming to dominate the GOP, the business community needs allies that can offer them stability. They are the natural organizations to work with to ensure pragmatic reforms for the future.

Protest movements are most effective when they use civil disobedience to highlight state polices that are not just. Two key examples of this are Martin Luther King and Gandhi. Gandhi with his Satyagrah and Martin Luther King with his nonviolence, practiced one thing that OWS never had: Discipline and leadership. OWS is a leaderless organization by its own admission. Nor does not it have a clear set of goals. As such, it does not have the ability to enforce behavior standards on its members, as both Gandhi and King did. Without discipline and leadership, OWS was quickly demonized as radicals. They were more effective for the right then they were for the left. In many ways, they are similar to the Tea Party. They are quickly denounced as radicals and more useful to the other side. However, OWS did of a core truth. The simple message that “this level of wealth inequality is unhealthy”, is a powerful message. To bring that message to bear, one has to be focused and disciplined. That is something the far-left lacks. Moreover, quick and radical change is often more damaging then good. Long-term pragmatic reforms are the way to help the whole of society.

We on the Left should not want the business community to fail. Their success should be rewarded and we should want American companies with American workers to succeed globally. That said, we should work with them to find means to address what is a fundamental weakness of the American system, extreme inequity of wealth. The American economy needs a strong consumer and a strong middle class is how an economy maintains a strong middle class. A government that has a safety net, a progressive tax system, and programs to build a middle class is good for everyone. Instead of demonizing the business world, we should be working with them.

This may seem odd to some. However, the Republican party is dominated by the Tea Party now. They favor an extreme ideology that will undermine the very system the business community needs to remain profitable. The fact is, no one has more to lose from another debt ceiling fight then the business. That is why Obama is reaching out to them now. That is why we should move to position our party as the moderate party. Yes, we believe in a solid middle class. However, we also believe in American business. We do not think that American business is our enemy.

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214 replies	Author	Time	Post
Our future is center-left not far-left. The business community and DLC, not OWS (Original post)	BrentWil	Dec 2012	OP
I'm a socialist....	mike_c	Dec 2012	#1
corporate America has spent the past few decades making sure they make more	liberal_at_heart	Dec 2012	#12
Profits are fine	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#62
You can find the "ultimate expression" in many places	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#58
the "business community" will save tons of $ if we go to universal health care...	msongs	Dec 2012	#2
some would, but they'll save just as much if they, like walmart, pay their employees welfare wages	HiPointDem	Dec 2012	#17
I have always thought the government is the way to solve this in a modern economy	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#122
The only reason we did expand coverage	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#63
There's no problem with the business community	Scootaloo	Dec 2012	#3
There is a told for a strong government	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#124
+++1	patrice	Dec 2012	#128
Well, then, ket the business community needs to think more about what allows them to	kelliekat44	Dec 2012	#4
A strong government is needed for the long term success of business. NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#125
It has to regulate business to keep it from destroying itself, devouring true productivity and...	freshwest	Dec 2012	#200
I agree...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#202
DLC is center right. OWS is center left.	jeff47	Dec 2012	#5
I get the feeling that "far left" in today's jargon	Art_from_Ark	Dec 2012	#21
That actually isn't to far from the truth	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#141
The political spectrum is different in different countries.	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#64
No, you haven't	jeff47	Dec 2012	#76
They do exist. They just aren't important. NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#78
The media says so. But the media's wrong.	jeff47	Dec 2012	#92
No the public does favor that	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#142
It's not just one data point........	socialist_n_TN	Dec 2012	#147
Do I have to link the definition of "example" for you?	jeff47	Dec 2012	#165
Mickey Edwards, former GOP congressman from OK,	Eleanors38	Dec 2012	#107
The President is center right in the 1960s	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#143
More so than FDR, but less than JFK, Carter, Clinton & Obama.	Eleanors38	Dec 2012	#179
+1	LWolf	Dec 2012	#212
Threads like this make me miss unrec.	white_wolf	Dec 2012	#6
+1000 nt	Mnemosyne	Dec 2012	#13
"The DLC can go straight to hell" - music to my ears,	Raksha	Dec 2012	#14
Oh, and FUCK Third Way while we're at it!	bullwinkle428	Dec 2012	#16
+1	leftstreet	Dec 2012	#23
8)	DirkGently	Dec 2012	#29
I was juror number 3	hrmjustin	Dec 2012	#33
Jesus Christ, but Juror #4 makes me question the universal franchise. If you're going	coalition_unwilling	Dec 2012	#44
Here here!	UnrepentantLiberal	Dec 2012	#34
+1 n/t	JoeyT	Dec 2012	#84
Job creators über alles	jsr	Dec 2012	#108
+1	uponit7771	Dec 2012	#118
+1,000 nt	truebluegreen	Dec 2012	#134
++1. nm	nc4bo	Dec 2012	#144
Same here!	Wind Dancer	Dec 2012	#184
+1 (nt)	Duncan Grant	Dec 2012	#191
No one wants the business community to fail. Just a return to ethics & morals in business.	JaneyVee	Dec 2012	#7
Do you believe in right-to-work?	Union Scribe	Dec 2012	#8
Take your cheap Third Way corporatist propaganda and stick it where the sun don't shine.	Zorra	Dec 2012	#9
+1	YoungDemCA	Dec 2012	#10
Yep.	99Forever	Dec 2012	#18
I couldn't have said it better.	UnrepentantLiberal	Dec 2012	#35
"We do not think that American business is our enemy."	YoungDemCA	Dec 2012	#11
Could you please point out this huge groundswell movement for "reforms"?	bullwinkle428	Dec 2012	#15
Please don't make me roll my eyes quite so forcefully. It hurts a bit.	LeftyMom	Dec 2012	#19
the current economic model is not sustainable and cannot possibly sustainably provide a western	Douglas Carpenter	Dec 2012	#20
Are You Talking About The Immediate Future ???	WillyT	Dec 2012	#22
OWS didn't fail because they were radical and anti-business, they failed because they were a joke	Azathoth	Dec 2012	#24
OWS failed? Really? What criterion\criteria are you using to assess success or	coalition_unwilling	Dec 2012	#45
This message was self-deleted by its author	HangOnKids	Dec 2012	#190
I'd call giving emergency response training in NY to the same people who peppersprayed them--	eridani	Dec 2012	#52
This sounds like a republican screed	AgingAmerican	Dec 2012	#99
Go join the fucking Republicans if you want to tongue-kiss Wall Street.	Marr	Dec 2012	#25
Not the future I want.	Blue_In_AK	Dec 2012	#26
Fox news says OWS is dead. Sigh...and the problems we discuss still have not been addressed.	Fire Walk With Me	Dec 2012	#27
Our future is Climate Change	NoOneMan	Dec 2012	#28
+100000000000000000000000000000000	AgingAmerican	Dec 2012	#100
Sorry, but there is no real future there...	ananda	Dec 2012	#30
and bs like this	DonCoquixote	Dec 2012	#31
Bingo.. n/t	Fumesucker	Dec 2012	#43
Fuck that DLC noise.	MrSlayer	Dec 2012	#32
That old Third Way bird doesn't fly anymore. nt	woo me with science	Dec 2012	#36
I'm sorry, multinationals and big corporations ARE the enemy--	BarackTheVote	Dec 2012	#37
+1	freshwest	Dec 2012	#201
False equivalencies, lies, and more pointless shit stirring. What a shock. n/t	Egalitarian Thug	Dec 2012	#38
Of course you know occupy is gone	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#39
Fuck the DLC and Third Way.	HooptieWagon	Dec 2012	#40
There influence is the only reason you do win. NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#160
"There"? Third Way-ers getting spelling lessons from teabaggers now?	HooptieWagon	Dec 2012	#171
I so hope that shit stirring will one day become a legitimate business model.	Democracyinkind	Dec 2012	#41
I've noticed the rhetoric is being ramped up for some reason.	Rex	Dec 2012	#46
Losing my nerves with the hit and run OP's...	Democracyinkind	Dec 2012	#48
Some will do anything to keep the status quo	Rex	Dec 2012	#49
Same as 2010	RandiFan1290	Dec 2012	#65
Yes, thank you, exact same crowd.	Rex	Dec 2012	#89
unrec	Joe Shlabotnik	Dec 2012	#42
Classic Hit-and-Run OP. (Hat tip to WilliamPitt for coining the	coalition_unwilling	Dec 2012	#47
I will defend it...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#55
He defended himself in this thread, before he self-deleted:	LAGC	Dec 2012	#59
Disgusting!	Wind Dancer	Dec 2012	#187
Says who?	Waiting For Everyman	Dec 2012	#50
+1 n/t	Laelth	Dec 2012	#70
Bull n/t	kickysnana	Dec 2012	#51
Can't have a center without a far.	aquart	Dec 2012	#53
I think there should be a 'reverse Charlie Crist'	xchrom	Dec 2012	#54
You are failures	RandiFan1290	Dec 2012	#56
If that is the future then this country is fucked.	aandegoons	Dec 2012	#57
The extremist in the far right scare the business community	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#156
The business community should be us, the workers, and not a handful of robber barons... nt	Comrade_McKenzie	Dec 2012	#60
Everything helped	union_maid	Dec 2012	#61
What do you win?	tama	Dec 2012	#66
"We on the Left"???	HughBeaumont	Dec 2012	#67
Do I belong on the right?	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#68
With posts like this, I kind of wonder myself.	HughBeaumont	Dec 2012	#69
Where do I say they self regulate? NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#72
Center right	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#93
What is normal...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#94
The US is too narrow and has shifted right, way to the far right...	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#95
I will stay in the Democratic Party, thank you very much	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#103
And...so do moderate repubs	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#105
I doubt it	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#109
You are still center right	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#112
Speaking of the Rockaways...	Raksha	Dec 2012	#132
FEMA has been working in parallel.	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#133
ARC - that stands for American Red Cross, right?	Raksha	Dec 2012	#145
Yes, the American Red Cross	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#146
What you call "So-called normal systems" are far fairer to their citizens and their economy.	HughBeaumont	Dec 2012	#98
What's normal is relative to any culture... That's all I said.	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#101
So we all should ignore standard political science	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#106
I think you are suggesting comparative politics	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#116
You are still center right	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#117
Well...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#119
There are moderate republicans still	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#120
It doesn't hurt	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#121
But that is where you are	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#123
That's silly. NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#126
Of course it is silly, just a hard core political definition	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#131
hey, wait, i'm still trying to get my head around the "far left"	newspeak	Dec 2012	#80
Your future maybe. Leave me out of dystopia.	marmar	Dec 2012	#71
Some people are	ProSense	Dec 2012	#73
I don't even have a post in one of those threads. NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#159
Are you sure?	underoath	Dec 2012	#205
Yeah...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#214
Pinch yourself and squeal and know that this is real...	countryjake	Dec 2012	#74
And working people should be supported so they can join the middle class NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#158
Bookmarking for later	JHB	Dec 2012	#75
Okay. nT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#157
Is this a joke? You have no idea what OWS is about.	eilen	Dec 2012	#77
They are the same in that the tea party helps us more the the GOP	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#79
Total BS.	BarackTheVote	Dec 2012	#163
We won by 3 percent because Obama ran an...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#168
Nice RW talking points you got there, bro.	BarackTheVote	Dec 2012	#181
Romney was not crushed. Look at the numbers.	randome	Dec 2012	#182
Given that the M$M was cheer leading RMoney	BarackTheVote	Dec 2012	#196
You obviously either know nothing about OWS or are poking fun. OWS is =non-partisan=	Fire Walk With Me	Dec 2012	#170
I disagree.	truebluegreen	Dec 2012	#81
Sure we can	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#82
I wasn't just talking about carbon, or just about the developed world.	truebluegreen	Dec 2012	#85
Markets only function if there is more than one seller	BarackTheVote	Dec 2012	#164
"The business world" needs to stop usurping political power and undermining the country.	eShirl	Dec 2012	#83
Where is the Third Way or 'moderate' counterpart to Occupy Sandy?	Bluenorthwest	Dec 2012	#86
Occupy Sandy is amazing	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#155
What you hold as good is antithetical to the DLC that I know.	cprise	Dec 2012	#87
History is kindest to the pragmatic that moves in the right direction. NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#154
Letting multinationals run rampant over the 99%	BarackTheVote	Dec 2012	#166
If you're standing up for fairness and equality of opportunity, we've got your back. #OWS	Fire Walk With Me	Dec 2012	#88
Certain people still fear the effects of OWS	Rex	Dec 2012	#90
Well thanks	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#153
Dear OP, still waiting to hear all about the Thrid Way Moderate's program to help	Bluenorthwest	Dec 2012	#91
You can be left of center and not be FAR LEFT	AgingAmerican	Dec 2012	#96
I don't	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#152
Hogwash	AgingAmerican	Dec 2012	#178
Being "moderate" is why we are in the situation we are in economically.	mmonk	Dec 2012	#97
And the 1930s are very liberal when compared to 1910...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#151
How can the future be "DLC" when the DLC doesn't exist?	NYC Liberal	Dec 2012	#102
The DLC is now The Third Way. It very much exists. They changed their	sabrina 1	Dec 2012	#111
The DLC didn't change its name; it disbanded around the same time the RLC did.	NYC Liberal	Dec 2012	#114
It morphed. But same policies and many of the same people.	sabrina 1	Dec 2012	#115
That is true	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#150
we should move to position our party as the moderate party? No thanks.	bowens43	Dec 2012	#104
The Democratic leadership are ALL capitalists	davidn3600	Dec 2012	#110
You could have made your point without bashing OWS	Teamster Jeff	Dec 2012	#113
There would be no fucking center-left if there was no far-left.	RagAss	Dec 2012	#127
Much depends on how one definies "business community"	arcane1	Dec 2012	#129
OWS isn't Far Left. It includes the Far Left. You've heard of Horizontal Empowerment? nt	patrice	Dec 2012	#130
speak for yourself n/t	warrprayer	Dec 2012	#135
DLC's strategy is, 'if they'll move right, make em move righter.'	closeupready	Dec 2012	#136
The future is a Democratic Party that is pragmatic or	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#137
Politics swings like a pendullum - that's well-known.	closeupready	Dec 2012	#161
"Our future is center-left...": 2200 views, 9 recs	DisgustipatedinCA	Dec 2012	#138
Interesting numbers, and actually a very hopeful sign	Raksha	Dec 2012	#139
Well...	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#140
point taken, r.e. multiple views	DisgustipatedinCA	Dec 2012	#148
Your welcome NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#149
Bleh	Marrah_G	Dec 2012	#162
If you insist on spouting that shit could you at least throw a picture of	TheKentuckian	Dec 2012	#167
No, the labor movements are the "natural organizations to work with" for progressives.	David__77	Dec 2012	#169
Labor and business are not natural enemies NT	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#172
!	Fumesucker	Dec 2012	#173
They aren't	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#174
Man is not a rational animal, man is an animal that rationalizes	Fumesucker	Dec 2012	#175
That is why I used the term "natural"	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#193
Tell that to "business".	HughBeaumont	Dec 2012	#176
Middle class demand creates jobs, really..	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#194
As far as business is concerned . . .	markpkessinger	Dec 2012	#189
That is largely correct	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#195
I did not say. Labor should lead capital in an alliance.	David__77	Dec 2012	#188
Gosh, thanks for clearing that up for us	deutsey	Dec 2012	#177
FUCK the DLC.	kath	Dec 2012	#180
This message was hidden by jury decision.	Marr	Dec 2012	#183
Lol, probably not that much. Or they would get better representation.	sabrina 1	Dec 2012	#185
Balderdash!	markpkessinger	Dec 2012	#186
Obama is a Republican from the 1960s. So what?	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#192
Problem is that center left is now CALLED far left.	DirkGently	Dec 2012	#197
FUCK DLC	Panasonic	Dec 2012	#198
Is that some sort of threat?	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#199
You don't get to claim Obama or even Bill Clinton	DevonRex	Dec 2012	#203
Not to be an ass, but the poor spelling made me give up reading your post.	octothorpe	Dec 2012	#204
I know the difference	BrentWil	Dec 2012	#208
The DLC needs to fuck off.	Chan790	Dec 2012	#206
I think I am going to hurl	lunasun	Dec 2012	#207
The OP did...right up there /\	renie408	Dec 2012	#211
What do you mean 'we', pale face?	renie408	Dec 2012	#209
This message was hidden by jury decision.	backscatter712	Dec 2012	#210
This message was hidden by jury decision.	Jamastiene	Dec 2012	#213

Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 10:55 PM

mike_c (31,504 posts)

1. I'm a socialist....

...so I think we still have a way to go. Greed is not a virtue. That "business community" you laud has core values whose ultimate expression is the Walmart-ization of American life, social injustice and the destruction of worker's hopes for a better life. Sorry. The real left repudiates that, or at least they did the last time I checked.

Our future is center-left not far-left. The business community and DLC, not OWS

1. I'm a socialist....

12. corporate America has spent the past few decades making sure they make more

62. Profits are fine

58. You can find the "ultimate expression" in many places

2. the "business community" will save tons of $ if we go to universal health care...

17. some would, but they'll save just as much if they, like walmart, pay their employees welfare wages

122. I have always thought the government is the way to solve this in a modern economy

63. The only reason we did expand coverage

3. There's no problem with the business community

124. There is a told for a strong government

128. +++1

4. Well, then, ket the business community needs to think more about what allows them to

125. A strong government is needed for the long term success of business. NT

200. It has to regulate business to keep it from destroying itself, devouring true productivity and...

202. I agree...

5. DLC is center right. OWS is center left.

21. I get the feeling that "far left" in today's jargon

141. That actually isn't to far from the truth

64. The political spectrum is different in different countries.

76. No, you haven't

78. They do exist. They just aren't important. NT

92. The media says so. But the media's wrong.

142. No the public does favor that

147. It's not just one data point........

165. Do I have to link the definition of "example" for you?

107. Mickey Edwards, former GOP congressman from OK,

143. The President is center right in the 1960s

179. More so than FDR, but less than JFK, Carter, Clinton & Obama.

212. +1

6. Threads like this make me miss unrec.

13. +1000 nt

14. "The DLC can go straight to hell" - music to my ears,

16. Oh, and FUCK Third Way while we're at it!

23. +1

29. 8)

33. I was juror number 3

44. Jesus Christ, but Juror #4 makes me question the universal franchise. If you're going

34. Here here!

84. +1 n/t

108. Job creators über alles

118. +1

134. +1,000 nt

144. ++1. nm

184. Same here!

191. +1 (nt)

7. No one wants the business community to fail. Just a return to ethics & morals in business.

8. Do you believe in right-to-work?

9. Take your cheap Third Way corporatist propaganda and stick it where the sun don't shine.

10. +1

18. Yep.

35. I couldn't have said it better.

11. "We do not think that American business is our enemy."

15. Could you please point out this huge groundswell movement for "reforms"?

19. Please don't make me roll my eyes quite so forcefully. It hurts a bit.

20. the current economic model is not sustainable and cannot possibly sustainably provide a western

22. Are You Talking About The Immediate Future ???

24. OWS didn't fail because they were radical and anti-business, they failed because they were a joke

45. OWS failed? Really? What criterion\criteria are you using to assess success or

52. I'd call giving emergency response training in NY to the same people who peppersprayed them--

99. This sounds like a republican screed

25. Go join the fucking Republicans if you want to tongue-kiss Wall Street.

26. Not the future I want.

27. Fox news says OWS is dead. Sigh...and the problems we discuss still have not been addressed.

28. Our future is Climate Change

100. +100000000000000000000000000000000

30. Sorry, but there is no real future there...

31. and bs like this

43. Bingo.. n/t

32. Fuck that DLC noise.

36. That old Third Way bird doesn't fly anymore. nt

37. I'm sorry, multinationals and big corporations ARE the enemy--

201. +1

38. False equivalencies, lies, and more pointless shit stirring. What a shock. n/t

39. Of course you know occupy is gone

40. Fuck the DLC and Third Way.

160. There influence is the only reason you do win. NT

171. "There"? Third Way-ers getting spelling lessons from teabaggers now?

41. I so hope that shit stirring will one day become a legitimate business model.

46. I've noticed the rhetoric is being ramped up for some reason.