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Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:47 AM

Raising tax rate on the rich a mere 2% (to 37%) is a total victory for Republicans!

Once again, if we do NOTHING, the rate goes to 39.6%.

So, in essence, 37% is actually yet another tax cut for the filthy rich.

Call the Fiscal Bluff - it's a better deal.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:16 AM

1. I just used your 'Fiscal Bluff' in another thread and couldn't remember your name

to you credit. Then I remembered, but spelled it incorrectly. Now I will edit to correct the spelling.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1954002

Re your OP, it's clever how they do this. They lower expectations so we keep accepting less and less and feel like we won something.

Disgusting. And they wonder why Congress has a 13% approval rating.


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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 03:58 AM

7. You know, that gives me an idea.

You know those "scare talks" they have in schools sometime, where a convict is brought in to give the kids a "don't be like me, I'm on death row 'cause I beat a man to death with his own grandma for his shoes and now I gotta eat applesauce 'cause my cellmate made me eat the lunch tray" sort of speech?

We could do that to solve the Israel / Palestine conflict. we take two carefully-selected teams of four people from congress; two republicans, two democrats in each. Tea Party fuckweasels, and hte bluest Democrats you can get. Send one team to Tel Aviv, the other to Ramallah.

"Look guys... You're starting to look like us," they begin... and then roll 16 hours of footage from the chamber. The whole time all four congresspersons are yelling at the screen, and at each other.

Then we bring the Israelis and the Palestinians together, put the congresspeople in a separate room with a two-way mirror and a copy of the 2013 budget plan.

I'll bet the Israel / Palestine conflict will be resolved in 20 minutes.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:20 AM

2. And capital gains goes back to 20%, a 5% increase. And most importantly,

 

the inheritance tax is reinstated at 55% after the first million.

Any deal that doesn't get more than this while leaving SS, Medicare, and Medicaid alone is a loss.

This whole "fiscal cliff" propaganda is just politicians trying to avoid having to do their jobs.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 03:24 AM

4. +100

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 03:40 AM

5. I'm all for going back to the Clinton era tax rates, but from 15% to 20% is more like a 33% tax

increase, not a 5% increase. A 5% increase would be from 15% to 15.75%. No?

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Response to No DUplicitous DUpe (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:01 PM

14. You're right, I wrote that badly. Five total percentage points would be a 33.3% increase. n/t

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 03:24 AM

3. K&R

Fear, fear, fear, fearing fear.

Uh...but I'm not afraid. Their "cliff" propaganda hasn't worked on me.

We're going to be just fine after we go over this imaginary cliff. And I can't wait till New Year's Eve!

Go PO!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 03:48 AM

6. Damn straight.

And to think the top tax rate used to be 90% during the mid-20th century...ours today is a joke compared to what it was back then. IDK what Republicans have to whine about.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 04:06 AM

8. we don't know that is the deal

This is just stuff the media is floating.

It's also possible they could combine elimination of deductions with a marginal rate so the revenue gains would be the same as raising it to 39.6%.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 04:23 AM

11. elimination of deductions does not raise near enough in the long term

Because the income at the top keeps growing.

In 1995, the average income of the FAB 400 (the top 400 incomes) was $50.8 million by 2007 it had grown to a whopping $344.8 million. Higher rates would impact that extra $290 million, but eliminating deductions would not. Because all deductions are effectively utilized at $50 million, so there are no more to take to shelter that $290 million.

Just figuring $290 million times 2.6% times 400 is a tax cut of $3 billion per year - and that's just from the top 400, to say nothing of the other multi-millionaires.

It also amounts to an average tax cut of $7.54 million per plutocrat.

And then Republicans will say things like "The country is broke" or "we cannot afford this" or "we cannot afford that".

But we CAN afford $7.5 million tax cuts for each of the 400 richest people in America?

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 08:49 AM

12. Thanks for the excellent breakdown.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 04:09 AM

9. not to mention the tax cuts they still get on their first $250,000 in income

which all by themselves average out to about $28,000 for those in the top 1%.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 04:18 AM

10. The tax rate Scam is that Capital Gains will not be effectively raised

 

The smoke and mirrors crowd are busy at work in Washington. Democrats And Repubs are both scamming us all. the problem with our Economy, with Wall Street and with Jobs is that we have taken Capital Gains rates fall to a point where they allow "Skimming " of profits to occur in business. Low capital gains rates do not encourage investment in business, but actually discourage investments in real jobs and real business. Low capital gains rates has been the real Welfare Queen that has run up the deficit, encouraged off shoring and Killed the American Dream.

When Long term or short term profits are taxed at low rates, even the proposed mere 20% , far below regular income rates, this encourages business to look at itself as merely a cash cow to be sucked as dry as possible for the mere sake of profit. If the tax rate on taking all the profits out of a business have such a low tax rate , what encouragement is there for a business to invest in people, human benefits, research and development or long term infrastructure improvements for companies?

Raising the Capital gains tax rates to that of regular income would eliminate both Wall Streets Obscene trading and businesses only looking at "Profits" over people. If there is more incentive for businesses to pay people more, invest in buildings and maintenance, as well as pay retirements and health care for employees as it will lower their taxes, then we will have a solution.

Sadly the "tax rate " for the rich debate does not in any real way address this issue, and we are all being scammed by this fiscal cliff nonsense by Democrats and Republicans merely using the Hegelian Dialectic to pretend to offer a debate , while sadly offering no real change to the damage that is still being wrought by unfettered greed in our financial community, to which our politicians are deeply personally entrenched.

Only by seriously raising capital gains tax rates will we return ourselves to a people profits. The present negotiations are merely a puppet show to placate us into believing that something real is happening. Just remember that the wealthy do not make their monies in regular income, they make it in capital gains, and that is all based on profits. If we want real change in Washington and Wall Street , then substantially raising the capital gains rates is the only real answer. All the rest is merely a smoke and mirrors scam.

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Response to billy_j (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 09:02 AM

13. Hegelian dialectic

Well put. Raising capitol gains to the tax rates of the rest of us is critical to balancing the budget. I mean, either they want to balance the budget, or they are blowing smoke.

When a fireman goes to work, he puts his life at risk; why should someone who is only risking money be allowed to pay less in taxes? It makes no sense.

That and a stet tax on all securities transactions.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:02 PM

15. I agree. Don't compromise, allow ALL the Bush tax cuts to expire. nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 05:13 PM

16. Ironically, it may be the radical teabaggers that will get us to go "over the cliff". nt

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