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Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:12 PM

 

Climate change's enduring drought signals that we'll need protein alternatives to meat farming.

Especially cattle farming. Farmers have already been feeding cows candy and inexpensive filler because feed prices are soaring due to drought. Unsustainable.

What are valid alternatives? Superfoods such as quinoa and such? I'm certainly not a vegetarian but we should expect (or work for) superfoods to bulk out our meals. Especially if/when beef becomes increasingly expensive.

http://www.savvyvegetarian.com/vegetarian-recipes/basic-quinoa.php

"Quinoa has the most protein of any grain,and the highest fat content. It's a great source of vitamins & minerals, Quinoa is higher in lysine than wheat, and is considered a complete protein."

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Reply Climate change's enduring drought signals that we'll need protein alternatives to meat farming. (Original post)
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 OP
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #1
patrice Dec 2012 #5
Deep13 Dec 2012 #10
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #23
yewberry Dec 2012 #17
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #39
patrice Dec 2012 #2
Deep13 Dec 2012 #3
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #6
Deep13 Dec 2012 #9
hlthe2b Dec 2012 #20
undeterred Dec 2012 #8
Deep13 Dec 2012 #13
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #14
KamaAina Dec 2012 #48
randome Dec 2012 #4
Mel Content Dec 2012 #7
Viva_La_Revolution Dec 2012 #22
Mel Content Dec 2012 #30
1-Old-Man Dec 2012 #11
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #16
NoOneMan Dec 2012 #29
Gregorian Dec 2012 #12
Deep13 Dec 2012 #15
randome Dec 2012 #18
Retrograde Dec 2012 #43
jwirr Dec 2012 #19
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #21
jwirr Dec 2012 #24
Nikia Dec 2012 #25
NoOneMan Dec 2012 #34
Nikia Dec 2012 #38
NoOneMan Dec 2012 #40
slackmaster Dec 2012 #26
Iggy Dec 2012 #31
Deep13 Dec 2012 #42
NoOneMan Dec 2012 #27
Tree-Hugger Dec 2012 #28
undeterred Dec 2012 #32
Tree-Hugger Dec 2012 #35
undeterred Dec 2012 #36
Iggy Dec 2012 #33
Tree-Hugger Dec 2012 #37
Iggy Dec 2012 #44
Tree-Hugger Dec 2012 #46
flvegan Dec 2012 #41
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #47
JCMach1 Dec 2012 #45
NickB79 Dec 2012 #49

Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:15 PM

1. Growing crops takes water too.

Think Dust Bowl-not much growing got done.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:16 PM

5. Hemp is drought resistant, also pest resistant, AND it builds stressed out soils. nt

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:20 PM

10. That's kind of the point.

It takes a lot more crops to feed cattle than it does to feed humans directly.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:38 PM

23. Not if you let them eat grass instead of grains.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:23 PM

17. Not growing the crops to feed cattle is a massive net gain, though.

But yeah, dust bowl conditions pretty much put an end to crops, period.
Yeek.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:04 PM

39. Growing crops takes FAR less water than raising and processing beef.

Lots of food was grown during Dust Bowl years - a certain area of the lower plains states was not growing anything, but we sure didn't starve even then.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:15 PM

2. Legalize HEMP. = Complete low bad-fat proteins, materiel, & small scale entrepreneurship. nt

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:15 PM

3. Quinoa is good stuff, beans too...

...but I'm not eating bugs.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:17 PM

6. Yeah, the bug protein thing. Sigh...I'd rather eat beautiful, innocent bunny rabbits first.

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:18 PM

9. *shrug* me too. nt

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:28 PM

20. don't you dare be hunting my neighborhood bunnies.... They are in a very protected zone....

Last edited Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Even the doggies protect them (from the coyotes).

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:18 PM

8. At least not that you know of.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:20 PM

13. true. nt

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Response to undeterred (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:21 PM

14. It's not polite to remind everyone that the FDA allow a certain % of bug in every can of food!

 

And that it's entirely unavoidable! Oops, I did it too. Ni!

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 12:32 PM

48. The best way to get protein from bugs

is to feed them to chickens.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:16 PM

4. Are chickens less susceptible to drought?

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:18 PM

7. we tried quinoa once...we won't be trying it again.

 

nasty stuff.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:33 PM

22. try cooking it in broth instead of water

and add some spices. It's a bit of an acquired taste, but it's really good for you.

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Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:18 PM

30. then it's a taste i won't be acquiring.

 

In 52 years, I've never acquired a taste for coffee, beer, or white bovine lactate, either.

Besides, there are plenty of other foods that are 'really good for you' that are also edible.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:20 PM

11. If its drier one place it will be wetter some place else.

They are now farm raising shrimp in Bangladesh and exporting it around the world. They are able to do this because of saltwater intrusion into what had formerly been rice paddies. The intrusion is a direct result of global warming. Just because its gong to get hotter does not mean that all places will get drier. Far from it.

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:23 PM

16. Interesting, but I'm thinking locally and also factoring in shipping, which may suffer increasing

 

prices due to peak oil. Yes, the face of things is significantly changing. The "new flood" aspect has been the topic of several science fiction novels in the last decade, such as from Paulo Bacigallupi.

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Response to 1-Old-Man (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:15 PM

29. On average, it will be drier.

 

(warmer air will evaporate and hold more water)

Where it will be wetter does not guarantee that region will be viable for equivalent food production, on a caloric level.

Where the temperatures are viable for photosynthesis doesn't mean the soil will be viable for large crop yields (think Canadian tundra).

Right now we harvest massive yields, on a calorie per acre measurement, from an area that will not be viable for food production in 40 years. We have no idea if the shifts will create areas that will produce even near the same calorie per acre yield, nor if we will even have the same viable square footage for crops (likely far less).

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:20 PM

12. But that just fixes a symptom

We need fewer humans.

And cue the flaming.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:21 PM

15. yup

7.1 billion is too many.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:25 PM

18. Absolutely.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:20 PM

43. I've done my bit

by not reproducing. I think we should get the world population down to 2 billion, but I don't have any acceptable way of doing that. At this point, I be happy to see no further increases.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:25 PM

19. Many people are turning to small animal farming but that may not be sustainable either. We are doing

that right now the animals still call for grain, especially in the winter.

This is a very important issue because this drought is not just effecting the cost of meat. Soybeans are also a source of protein and they are not going to grow without water either. Fish is already very expensive and will become scarce because of what is happening with the oceans and lakes. And there will be a problem with dairy herds.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:53 PM

24. Thank you. I have been thinking of looking into this idea.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:58 PM

25. Eating bugs is the obvious alternative

They reach the desirable size quickly and reproduce in large numbers. Pound per pound, they require much less food than traditional farm animals. You probably feed them things normally considered waste products which wouldn't compete with human grown food.
Most people have an aversion to eating bugs, but it makes sense for surviving in a less agriculturually productive world.

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Response to Nikia (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:23 PM

34. Why not people?

 

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:02 PM

38. It should be obvious unless you are a psychpathetic killer or an advocate of genocide

I suggested an underutilized source of animal protein that abundant in most climates and could be raised with much less space, water, and food resources than other animals usually raised for food.

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Response to Nikia (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:12 PM

40. Well, we might run out of insects

 

If we run out of people, that means more insects to go around. Its win, win.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:00 PM

26. To vegetarianists, everything that happens is a signal that we need alternatives to meat farming

 



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Response to slackmaster (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:18 PM

31. Hah hah Hahhh!!

 

that's a good one..

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:19 PM

42. I'm just going to go ahead and declare pork a vegetable.

Pulled pork will, therefore, be known as "salad" and bacon will be "cereal."

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:10 PM

27. Famine will be the chosen alternative

 

Its the cheapest approach that requires the smallest amount of capital investment.

In 40 years, it will be unlikely the US will be able to support significant crop yields of any of the staples (corn, soy, wheat, etc). Then, we will quickly see that passing on meat isn't even a viable option in itself, as there will be nothing to turn to (unless you can afford expensive, imported food).

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:11 PM

28. Can we learn to need and consume less meat?

Do we really need a McDonald's, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc on every corner? Do we really need to have access to quarter pounders and triple patty 'n' bacon burgers 24 hours a day? Do we need to be able to drive up to the Taco Bell window at 4 am and order 7 tacos? A big part of the problem is that we have turned meat into a snack. We've gone from sensibly portioned meals during the day to over inflated portions (think of the restaurants that constantly serve way too mcuh so that you are forced to take it home, forget to eat it and then discard it). We now eat cheeseburgers and tacos as a SNACK.

This country wastes billions of pounds of food each year. We have an over consumption crisis. We need to change the way people think about consumption and over eating. We need to change our relationship to food and our need to always have giant meals at our fingertips 24 hours a day. Sure, we can replace beef and other meats with different forms of plant proteins, but unless we change the way we think of food "needs" and consumption then we'll just find a way to fuck up a more plant-based diet, too.

P.S. Quinoa tastes like ass - even in broth and seasoning.

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:23 PM

32. Quinoa tastes like whatever you season it with.

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Response to undeterred (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:41 PM

35. That's what the puppeteers of "Big Quinoa" want to to believe

It's lies. All lies.

In all seriousness, I've tried it a few times. I just can't acquire the taste.

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:45 PM

36. "puppeteers of "Big Quinoa""

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:23 PM

33. HOW DARE YOU!!

 

obviously many of us are stressed and often "hungry". we have to eat a cheeseboirger, cinnamon rolls, ice cream, or 1,200 calorie caramel mochachino.. every 2-3 hours. we can't get stuff done, like going to the grocery store, without eating something on the way...

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Response to Iggy (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:59 PM

37. Plus...

You need to consume at least three boxes of Wheat Thins (it says "thin" - they are obviously healthy) while doing your grocery shopping.

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:29 PM

44. Oops... I Ate Four Boxes

 

while shopping today!!

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Response to Iggy (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:17 PM

46. Topped with a Baconator, I hope. ;) nt

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:18 PM

41. Oh, yeah. This has brilliance written all over it.

I'm just gonna sit and watch.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 12:30 PM

47. Those who harangue will also be hungry. Such is symmetry.

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:39 PM

45. free range

What's old is new. Let them eat grass. What a concept.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Tue Dec 11, 2012, 01:22 PM

49. We currently consume too much protein as is

The FDA's recommended serving size for meat is a piece approximately the size of a deck of playing cards. You ever see someone get served a steak that size in recent memory? A Quarter Pounder with Cheese alone supplies over half an adult man's daily intake of protein (29 g out of the recommended 56 g).

So, we have some leeway on reducing protein intake and still maintaining health before things get bad.

Once we reach the point that protein production has fallen off that much due to climate change, we have several options:

-Dairy: it is far more efficient to feed cattle grasses and a limited amount of grains for dairy than it is to slaughter them for meat. Plus, using certain cultures such as the ones used for Greek yogurt can drastically improve protein concentrations of cultured dairy products.

-Eggs: same as above, it's more efficient to raise chickens for eggs as compared to raising the solely for slaughter. Free-range chickens on small-scale farming operations can eat pests and weeds to both gain calories and reduce farmer inputs.

-Insects: yes, it grosses a lot of people out, but they are a very efficient way to grow protein on otherwise inhospitable land. I've had roasted grasshoppers before, and as long as you avoid the spiny legs, they're not half-bad.

-Longer-term, we have to change our farming styles to address the fact that weather extremes are the new norm, and we will not be going back to the good old days. Permaculture using long-lived perennial crops such as chestnuts and hazelnuts that can tolerate climate shifts shows great promise, as this research nursery in my home state has shown: http://www.badgersett.com/info/woodyag1.html

While chestnuts are fairly low in protein, hazelnuts pack over 4 grams of protein per ounce, twice that supplied by an ounce of tofu.

-Spirulina: Yes, it's technically an algae, so that will probably gross people out just like the insect statement above. However, it will grow easily in cultivated ponds in warmer areas of the world, and requires fairly few inputs to put out high quantities of protein.

But as others above have pointed out, these are all just stopgap measures unless we can get our population growth under control.

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