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Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:38 AM

Fighting feminism: let’s get practical

This is an article written by a Mens Rights Activist. It's an important read because when you run across one on the internet, it's really important to recognize what you are dealing with. They are fighting against the gains that feminists and feminism have made over the last 40 years...... They aren't actually fighting for equality....

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/fighting-feminism-lets-get-practical/

December 7, 2012Mike BuchananActivism

Fighting feminism: let’s get practical

One hears that the ‘women of the United States’ are up in arms about this or that; the plain fact is that eight fat women, meeting in a hotel parlor, have decided to kick up some dust. ~ HL Mencken 1880-1956

Public awareness of the damage wrought by feminism is increasing with each passing year. While this is heartening, it hasn’t – so far, at least – impacted greatly on the numerous manifestations of feminism, which leads me to pose an obvious question. How might we more effectively fight feminism?

We need to recognize the deeply undemocratic nature of feminism. The rise of feminism as a major political force – over the past 30 years in particular – has been facilitated by the feminist strategy of operating ‘below the radar.’ I have friends and acquaintances who remain blind to the catastrophic impact of feminism in the modern era, despite my best efforts to enlighten them.

I’m 54 and I can’t recall a penetrating critique of feminism on a mainstream television or radio program in the UK in my lifetime, nor in ‘serious’ newspapers or magazines. We shouldn’t be surprised that the level of public understanding about the nature and impact of feminism, while improving, remains low.

Feminist agendas are developed and driven by activists who are wildly unrepresentative of women in general. When women blithely call themselves ‘feminists’, what do they mean by the word? If they use terms like ‘patriarchy’ you know they’ve been brainwashed, but most women define their personal feminist ideology (if they do so at all) using expressions such as ‘equality between men and women.’


Let’s go on the offensive

How do you know when a feminist is lying? Her lips move.

Feminists have no rational arguments. They have only lies and distortions to ‘justify’ their actions, which helps explain why they’re permanently on the offensive.


Naming, shaming and ridiculing feminists.......

.........Anti-Feminism League presents ‘Harpy’ awards to prominent feminists, including one to Cherie Blair, the wife of the former prime minister, Tony Blair


Naming, shaming and ridiculing feminists’ male collaborators

We need to name, shame and ridicule the male collaborators who hand over power to woman.


To summarize my key points, I believe MRAs should:

Spend less time fighting feminism as an ideology, and less time debating with feminists.

Spend more time fighting the manifestations of feminism – collaborating with other MRAs on practical single-issue campaigns.

Name, shame and ridicule feminists.

Name, shame and ridicule feminists’ male collaborators.


This is not just some crazy mens group, this website is has a huge following and is representative of what one finds in the world of the MRM.



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Reply Fighting feminism: let’s get practical (Original post)
boston bean Dec 2012 OP
atreides1 Dec 2012 #1
arely staircase Dec 2012 #27
seabeyond Dec 2012 #52
LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #56
seabeyond Dec 2012 #62
arely staircase Dec 2012 #77
mzteris Dec 2012 #30
irisblue Dec 2012 #2
mzteris Dec 2012 #32
seabeyond Dec 2012 #54
freshwest Dec 2012 #83
sufrommich Dec 2012 #3
boston bean Dec 2012 #4
seabeyond Dec 2012 #55
Aerows Dec 2012 #5
boston bean Dec 2012 #8
iemitsu Dec 2012 #74
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #15
sufrommich Dec 2012 #16
boston bean Dec 2012 #23
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #89
arely staircase Dec 2012 #28
seabeyond Dec 2012 #60
bettyellen Dec 2012 #72
jeff47 Dec 2012 #75
nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #88
yardwork Dec 2012 #87
Cerridwen Dec 2012 #6
boston bean Dec 2012 #11
Cerridwen Dec 2012 #18
seabeyond Dec 2012 #64
bettyellen Dec 2012 #73
Aerows Dec 2012 #7
Squinch Dec 2012 #12
seabeyond Dec 2012 #65
Sheldon Cooper Dec 2012 #9
boston bean Dec 2012 #14
Upton Dec 2012 #26
boston bean Dec 2012 #29
Upton Dec 2012 #31
boston bean Dec 2012 #34
Upton Dec 2012 #37
boston bean Dec 2012 #38
loli phabay Dec 2012 #44
seabeyond Dec 2012 #67
left coaster Dec 2012 #71
LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #57
La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2012 #63
seabeyond Dec 2012 #66
Squinch Dec 2012 #10
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #13
Zorra Dec 2012 #17
boston bean Dec 2012 #19
Aerows Dec 2012 #20
boston bean Dec 2012 #21
LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #58
CTyankee Dec 2012 #22
MineralMan Dec 2012 #24
boston bean Dec 2012 #25
MineralMan Dec 2012 #33
boston bean Dec 2012 #36
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #42
LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #59
mzteris Dec 2012 #35
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #41
LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #61
bettyellen Dec 2012 #76
Aerows Dec 2012 #78
bettyellen Dec 2012 #79
Aerows Dec 2012 #82
bettyellen Dec 2012 #86
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #39
KG Dec 2012 #40
sufrommich Dec 2012 #43
sufrommich Dec 2012 #45
boston bean Dec 2012 #48
seabeyond Dec 2012 #68
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #46
loli phabay Dec 2012 #47
sufrommich Dec 2012 #50
WinstonSmith4740 Dec 2012 #49
bettyellen Dec 2012 #80
seabeyond Dec 2012 #51
JEB Dec 2012 #53
seabeyond Dec 2012 #69
scratcho Dec 2012 #70
freshwest Dec 2012 #81
seabeyond Dec 2012 #84
freshwest Dec 2012 #85

Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:47 AM

1. Men's Rights?

Men have had rights for thousands of years, and usually at the expense of women, children, and the weak!

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:24 AM

27. actually most men have had very few rights throughout history and today

the very idea of individual rights is a relatively new concept in human evolution. about 99 percent of the human experience has been a case of the strong oppressing the weak. and since throughout most of human history strength meant physical strength, women got the shitty end of the stick.

it ain't right. it just is.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:28 AM

52. even the very few had the right to beat and rape their wives. there have always

been rights that all men had, at the expense of women

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:34 AM

56. "Rule of thumb"

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Response to LiberalLoner (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:44 AM

62. exactly. and that is not so much out of our history today, either. nt

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:05 PM

77. absolutely

humans have set up lots of hierarchies. men over women, rich over poor, etc. and the group on top can rape and pillage, not at will, but with much greater freedom than the one at the bottom. we are getting better, but...

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:31 AM

30. +10000000000000

That's the thing some don't quite understand.

This country was established and built by and for white men of prominence. (It was also built on the backs of slave labor, but that's another equality issue!)

Unearned, expected privilege. A lot don't even realize that they have it, and it is patently wrong that other do not. Of course, some DO realize they have it and very selfishly want to keep it for themselves. No women, no minorities, no GLBT, no poor should have the privileges just "expected by" white males.

(Do I really have to add, no not every single white male in the entire world? :sigh: Of course I do. The above is representatively speaking. )

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:49 AM

2. they got the naming and shaming thing down pat n/t

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Response to irisblue (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:33 AM

32. sad thing is, around here,

it's become quite common and acceptable.

Many think it's "just a joke", but the true perpetrators have a much darker purpose.

Maybe if the former understood that "jokes" are only funny if EVERYONE in on it thinks it's funny. If a joke is told at the expense of another, then it most definitely is NOT funny.

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Response to irisblue (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:31 AM

54. yes, they do. then to be told is is NOT a weapon to use against women. just fun, really

and who buys that garbage?

the stupid?

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Response to irisblue (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:52 PM

83. It sounds like Rush was a charter member of their club. He's been on the air with this for years.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:52 AM

3. MRA's are like all other regressive movements concerned that

they may have to share their "god given rights" with others that they consider unworthy.Their arguments mimic the White Power movement.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:07 AM

4. This here backs up your point...



Despite their claims, feminists haven’t fought for the transfers of economic and political power from men to women which have taken place over the past 30+ years. They’ve manipulated a small number of powerful and influential male collaborators (white knights, sycophants, call them what you will) into handing over power, or enabling that handover, through tactics which are ultimately rooted in shaming men. I doubt if these collaborators represent more than 1% of men. They’re found in all walks of life – politics, state agencies, journalism, business, medicine, law and education.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:32 AM

55. wow. just wow. BB, this is interesting for a sunday morning read. hmmm, nt

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:19 AM

5. It's absolutely identical to the White Power movement

and I daresay that some of the men involved in this are likely involved in that. These "men's activists" can try to sugarcoat this movement however they like, but it is pretty clear from their complaints that they are angry that women are perfectly capable of living without them. Maybe they need to look in the mirror to find out why women are relieved to be able to live without them, because there are plenty of women that love their husbands and boyfriends.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:25 AM

8. Also, what I am seeing is how this discourse is given

standing by many.

I just don't think that people realize what the movement is about.

That it is a fight against feminism. That it is a fight against the gains women have made. That it's a fight against the men who have stood with feminists.

It's a fight they are engaging in to turn the clock back. They hate feminists and they hate what feminists stand for. That's the bottom line, and you will find that is true if one were to take the time to peruse their websites.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:04 PM

74. They don't just hate feminists they hate all women.

And the few "gains" that women have made in the last half century were gains for society not just women.
I would like to know exactly what rights, granted to women, have harmed or cost men anything.
This man and others, who join him in his anti-woman crusade, are the problem society needs to grapple with, not feminism.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:34 AM

15. That was the first thing that came to my mind

I have no doubt that there is overlap in membership.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:38 AM

16. Of course it is, the MRA's use of the term "white knighters" for

men who sympathize with the feminist movement is no different than the white power groups complaint about "n****r lovers".It's basically an accusation of "siding with the enemy".

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:06 AM

23. I noticed that as well.

It's scary isn't it.

That's why I just can't give lend credence to an argument, that feminism must be about equal rights for men too.

To me, it's just laughable, since feminism is a fight for equal rights for women... if someone didn't already have more rights, there would be no need for feminism, right. Feminists aren't looking to tear down men, we are looking to build ourselves up achieve equal footing.

Women deserve to advocate for themselves as a group, without being labeled anti men. Period.

This is how things get twisted... it all sounds good and nice, but in reality it is accepting a criticism of feminism, which is just not true.

Women do not have social, economic political equality with men. There is a reason for our existence. Individual men are not the enemy. It's a struggle where a lot of work remains to be done.



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Response to boston bean (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 03:11 AM

89. "[F]eminism is a fight for equal rights for women... if someone didn't already have more rights,

there would be no need for feminism, right. Feminists aren't looking to tear down men, we are looking to build ourselves up achieve equal footing."

Pretty simple, isn't it? I was amazed when some dud (that was a typo for "dude," but I decided to leave it) posted here recently about how women deserve to be raped since we threw away our protection from harm when we "destroyed" the patriarchy. Right, because there's no harm to women within the patriarchy.

When the physical, mental, and spiritual aspects of our lives are under the control of anyone but ourselves without our free consent, there is a great potential for harm. The "protection" of the patriarchy reminds me an awful lot of the "protection" schemes of organized crime. Guess who they are forcing you to pay for protection from.



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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:26 AM

28. sort of

more of a sugercoated version like the White Citizens Councels that were a more "respectable" version of the KKK.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:35 AM

60. american women the worst. no sane man can deal witha n american woman. need the asian or russian

woman that follows rules, roles and LIKEs being dominated and controlled. or so the men are saying. i have been around asian women and not seeing it. and not think those russian women are much into it either. they have to be tough. so i really do not get it.

BUT... there is more and more men saying out loud, stay away from the american "princess". not woman anymore. lost their "femininity" or "womanhood" or whatever. need the russian bride.

i do not know why they do not recognize how sad it is and why they would say it out loud. but, i am hearing and see it pushed more and more.

i wont even read comments from cnn and other news. it is full of this garbage.

i never knew.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:42 PM

72. They mean foreign women who are impoverished enough to trade their dignity

In order to have three square meals and a warm place to sleep. It's mail order brides theyre talking about- and exploitation of the disadvantaged.
These guys cannot cope with the notion of a woman being their equal, so they need to leave the country and basically purchase a woman because being respectful and not putting their own needs first is just not on their agenda. These are the dudes who'd like to put us back in our "place".

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:22 PM

75. It's one of those things where there's a tiny kernel that gets exploded into a false ideology

There are a few very, very tiny points MRAs have - programs designed to help any historically-repressed group can end up causing harm to other groups.

For example, saying "only a woman-owned business can bid on this government contract" is discriminatory, by necessity. The assumption is repression has restricted opportunities for women, so the restriction is a way to expand the opportunities of women. But care should be taken to ensure that such a restriction is still justified. (It currently is justified in the situations I'm aware of)

But if you're a loser who wants to blame your failures on others, you take that tiny kernel and explode it into an ideology of repression. "I can't get a good job because they're giving all the good jobs to women!". No, you can't get a good job because you dropped out of high school, never show up on time to your McJob, and treat your bosses like shit so they fire you and all those firings don't look good to potential employers.

That same blame game happens no matter what the target of the blame is. For some it's various dark-skinned people. For others it's the Chinese. For others it's women. So all these different groups are going to sound a lot alike because they're trying to live the same delusion.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #75)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 01:08 AM

88. +1

Also, as I said in an earlier post on another thread, these guys always seem to take personal misfortunes - whether great or small - and extrapolate them into conspiracy theories involving "misandry." They come off (to me) as paranoid and delusional.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:19 AM

87. It does sound just like white supremacist talk.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:24 AM

6. "The Problem with Gay Rights"

Also found on the site mentioned in the OP. The difference between the Orwellian named "men's rights/father's rights" advocates is that they frequently display homophobia and racism in addition to their cries that "feminists" have ruined their world. Here is an example of homophobia presented as "concern" for the "poor gay men" who have been victimized by the "evil feminists". I presume we can call this ~straight-splaining~.

If you have spent any real amount of time reading the articles, and in particular the comments in men’s movement forums, then you are aware of an often anti-homosexual attitude that has been prevalent for quite some time.

On a political level, some of the resentment is understandable. Gay activists have aligned themselves with feminists, and, while marching in misandric lockstep, have draped themselves in victim couture and made their grab for special government considerations. The resultant draconian intrusions and bullying on behalf of gays and other special interest groups is a core issue in the men’s movement, and for good reason.

Heterosexual males are the societal default for the role of perpetrator and are subsequently the identified enemy for whatever victims du jour have the stage at the moment. Just more misandry in a culture that seems to run on it these days.

<snip>

And this leaves us with what we see in the “gay rights” movement today- a dissonant ideology that is designed to attack the very nature of who they are. For in the end, whether you are an avowed deconstructionist of traditional masculinity, or an equally fervent traditionalist that thinks real men sit tall in the saddle and lay their coats in the mud for women to walk on, gay men will remain what they are- men. And to whatever extent they seek to include themselves in the “rights“ of men in the modern Zeitgeist, they will invariably suffer the consequences for that pursuit.


There's much more to the article. http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/the-problem-with-gay-rights/

As with many of their "arguments", there is a scintilla of truth buried within the article. That scintilla would be that the "dominant society" frequently attacks gay men as not "man(ly)" enough; as defined by the dominant culture. But, in the twisted world that is "men's rights", rather than change the dominant world view of "manly", gay men should instead regain their right to be as "manly" as the "manly, hetero men" and, of course, goes on to defend some sort of perverse caricature of "manly."



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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:30 AM

11. There is usually one scintilla of truth

that they twist beyond recognition, and the use it to discredit others, and make themselves the victims.

Feminists have got to be on the look out for this and find ways to counter it. it's arguing with crazy, but if you don't have the foundation as to what it is they are really wanting, you can't make a good counterargument.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:41 AM

18. Yep. That's why I try to point it out

when I can find it; it's frequently buried under piles of crap. It's classic, abusive "crazy making." Anyone who's dealt with an abuser, sometimes called a bully, will recognize the twists.

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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:50 AM

64. and the whine about bully ... because gays or women speak up when they promote the use of shaming

as a weapon to bullying women and gays to shut the fuck up

totally fucking amazing. i hear that often.

when people speak out about a gender issue, they are labeled a mob and bullying and called all kinds of names to shame.

who is the bully?

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:49 PM

73. I think we're getting to the real reason they don't advocate against violence now

They enjoy whatever tactics preserve their privileged lives - including perpetuating the macho ideal. It's totally regressive.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:24 AM

7. If I remember correctly

a lot of this started over men being angry that their wives got custody of the children, and spite over having to pay child support. While it is true that women usually get custody of the children, men sometimes do, too.

Let's face it - some men have no intention of supporting their children unless the law makes them. That's why we have these laws to begin with. It's a minority of men, because I think most men love their children.

Most of these guy, though, just sound like bitter, stark-raving assholes that can't understand why women aren't absolutely falling all over themselves to be with them.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:30 AM

12. I always assume it's a combination of mother issues and low self esteem.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:53 AM

65. maybe an imbalance for average couples though i have seen that addressed. for the wealthy,

the imbalance is absolutely against the woman. and i am not seeing that imbalance addressed by the courts any time soon.

i had a brother go thru this. so i know the pain of it all. but.... i also listen to a lot of men pissed having to pay child support. not a lot of empathy from me with that one.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:26 AM

9. I wish more people would recognize the danger inherent in these

MRA groups. There is a reason why they've been labeled as hate groups by the SPLC.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:33 AM

14. People, progressives, feminists

have got to educate themselves on what this movement is really about.

It is an attack not just on feminism and feminists, but on the gains women have made in the past 40 years.

And their arguments are entering our discourse and are being given some leverage. It scares the shit out of me.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:22 AM

26. That's not true about the SPLC..

It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false rape accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit.


http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/05/15/intelligence-report-article-provokes-outrage-among-mens-rights-activists/

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Response to Upton (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:28 AM

29. finish the quote up:

But we did call out specific examples of misogyny and the threat, overt or implicit, of violence.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:33 AM

31. Fine...but the fact remains

the SPLC itself says they are not calling MRAs hate groups..which makes me wonder why that misinformation keeps getting put out there..

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Response to Upton (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:34 AM

34. Well, it might just be because of articles like the one posted in the OP

would make them think that.

Do you have any comment on the article in the OP?

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Response to boston bean (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:38 AM

37. I see...time to change the subject..



And no, I have no other comment. Just wanted to set the record straight on the SPLC..

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Response to Upton (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:40 AM

38. I was on topic.

I see you don't want to give an opinion on the article. I'll try not to make any assumptions as to your reason for that.

See you later!

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Response to Upton (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:57 AM

44. radicals and zealots on both side of the argument are as bad as each other

 

Whereas the majority in the middle are open to dialogue and compromise. I no more listen to the radicals of one side or the other.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:57 AM

67. and one has the power and the other doesnt. point being, it is important to listen to the radical

when we seeing the language being used in our govt and the language used to pass laws against women. where do you think the "war on women" came from and the language used so reflective of the mra?

it is being mainstreamed. and it is an attack on women. starting legally across the nation.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:35 PM

71. Yeah, no. I call BS on the false moral equivalency..

..in this case, one side is fighting for the equal rights of one gender, while the other is against that. That is not equatable by any rational standard. FFS, don't frame it that way.

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:34 AM

57. +1

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:45 AM

63. agreed

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Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:54 AM

66. and the nets ability to allow it to feed and grow and infect our young. just like the racism and

homophobia we are seeing today.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:27 AM

10. Holy crap: "catastrophic impact of feminism in the modern era"

Like what? The girls voting and choosing when and how they have children? The girls being able to feed their families?

How very Taliban of them.



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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:31 AM

13. Yeah ...

Fighting the notion that women are people and should be equal in all aspects of life is something worthy of fighting against. Idiots, one and all.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:38 AM

17. Eeeew, gross! Now I feel like I need a shower. They're like the KKK of the gender spectrum.

These freaks would be right at home in Saudi Arabia.

They're so creepy.

Yuk. Ick.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:42 AM

19. We need to educate ourselves on their arguments.

thinkg like, feminists hate men, when in fact, it's MRA's who hate feminists.

That is where this type of BS is coming from, and it's quite a common argument they make.

They say this because feminism focuses on womens rights and issues. They think the very absence of their rights (which they have already, and are the ones we are fighting for) is a sign of discrimination.

You see this everywhere.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:46 AM

20. It's not any different than gay rights

They try to paint the idea that gay people are trying to get special rights, when it's the inequality that is the problem.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:47 AM

21. Great point!

Thank you!

yeah, all those people want special rights.... blech....

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Response to Zorra (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:35 AM

58. +1

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:49 AM

22. excellent post, bb! We need more education about what the Mens Rights Movement is up to.

And we need it here so everyone can see what the opposition is trying to do. The undoing of feminism is the undoing of the progressive project in this country. DU is ideally suited to help educate in this regard.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:15 AM

24. Sexist morons.

They have less influence, I think, than you're giving them credit for. They are troglodytes, and what they're saying is countered emphatically by many people, both men and women. That should continue.

They do not represent this man nor do they represent most men. They are the same as any bigoted group of people.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:18 AM

25. I'm not so sure about that, mineralman.

I see the basics of their arguments just about everywhere.

They tone them done when out in the general public.

I would prefer that this conversation not be turned into one of their talking points.

ie, all men aren't like that, why do you hate all men... etc... when that is just not what is being said.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:34 AM

33. And I'm not suggesting that you're saying that.

I know you're not. I'm just saying that the MRA morons are not all that influential. They're making arguments that were old and stupid many decades ago. I don't see them as a real challenge to progress, and would rather fight for positive change than against a powerless minority.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:36 AM

36. I am going to disagree with you.

I do find their arguments making it into the mainstream, all over the web.

They are making a concerted effort to demonize feminists. I for one, see that everywhere, don't you?

I'm not wasting my time. I feel I'm putting it to good use.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:49 AM

42. Actually they are helping to tank VAWA.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:35 AM

59. +1

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:35 AM

35. look around.

They're right here in River City.

Sad, that.

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Response to mzteris (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:46 AM

41. The last couple of weeks have shown ...

... they have become emboldened.

Feminism: The radical idea that women are people (autonomous and equal) ... yeah, there needs to be a movement against that

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:36 AM

61. +1

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:33 PM

76. Seriously...Who said they "represent most men"?

Who at DU are you addressing? Because you are promoting a fallacy posting that. People would think -quite reasonably - that your addressing people here who are lumping all men together. This knee jerk defensive posture is unhelpful to say the least.

And the MRAs are doing a fairly effective job organizing against important legislation. That should be recognized instead of dismissed.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #76)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:20 PM

78. Off topic

But how did you fare in the hurricane, BettyEllen? We didn't see you for a few weeks, and were glad to see you back posting.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #78)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:48 PM

79. Aww thanks! It was pretty tiring being without heat or electricity for two weeks but I'm

fortunate enough to have a good circle of friends and couch surfed as needed when the cold set in. Loads of barbecues and baking (my oven worked) by candlelight, and even more than the usual large amounts of pizza and beer, LOL. My car was fine and I shuttled supplies and food to our generous hosts and drove us periodically to the river so we could make phone calls (after about 3-4 days).
I mostly worried about my cats, the darkness and cold had them very stressed and one caught a very bad cold. I visited them 3X a day armed with flashlights and cooked and ran the oven for an hour each time. Boy when the lights came on it was a mess up in here!
Two friends lost their apartments and everything in it. One hated her landlord, was insured, and is pretty calm about the whole thing. The other was having a rough time financially, and we raised over 6K to help him get back on his feet. My goofy friend presented him with one of those huge checks you see on TV, LOL. That was pretty awesome. So, I feel lucky, and super fortunate to see that in a pinch, I do know a lot of pretty wonderful people. I witnessed hundreds of random acts of kindness and really only a few cranky moments.
Thanks for asking, and the warm welcome!


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Response to bettyellen (Reply #79)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:39 PM

82. I went through Katrina

It sucked. No water, no electricity, hot as hell temperatures and pretty much no joy. Like you, I know some great people, too. That's what made it bearable.

Glad to hear you made it through alright. You pretty much described our experience except it was hot as a mofo instead of cold.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:17 AM

86. Katrina is one of the saddest and most shameful moments in our history. I wish America had

taken a lasting lesson from it.
And I'm glad you got through okay!

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:45 AM

39. Fun times



Some people clutch at ill-gotten gain because they have no clue how to get things in any other manner.

But when you hold someone down, you MUST stay down there with them. Maybe not economically, maybe not career-wise, but in terms of who you are, keeping others back makes you backward.


The grown man who wrote this drek sounds like a 9-year-old who's writing a sniveling screed on why "No Gurls are Alloud" in his treehouse.

If his writing is an example of his status as a thinker or a leader, feminism is the very least of his worries.











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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:46 AM

40. MRA = mens rights assholes.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:10 AM

45. More from the SPLC:

Misogyny: The Sites

The so-called “manosphere” is peopled with hundreds of websites, blogs and forums dedicated to savaging feminists in particular and women, very typically American women, in general. Although some of the sites make an attempt at civility and try to back their arguments with facts, they are almost all thick with misogynistic attacks that can be astounding for the guttural hatred they express. What follows are brief descriptions of a dozen of these sites. Another resource is the Man Boobz website (manboobz.com), a humorous pro-feminist blog (its tagline is “Misogyny: I Mock It”) that keeps a close eye on these and many other woman-hating sites.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites


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Response to sufrommich (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:15 AM

48. here's what they have to say about the website we are discussing here in the OP

A Voice for Men
A Voice for Men is essentially a mouthpiece for its editor, Paul Elam, who proposes to “expose misandry on all levels in our culture.” Elam tosses down the gauntlet in his mission statement: “AVfM regards feminists, manginas , white knights and other agents of misandry as a social malignancy. We do not consider them well intentioned or honest agents for their purported goals and extend to them no more courtesy or consideration than we would clansmen , skinheads, neo Nazis or other purveyors of hate.” Register-Her.com, an affiliated website that vilifies women by name who have made supposedly false rape allegations (among other crimes against masculinity), is one of Elam’s signature “anti-hate” efforts. “Why are these women not in prison?” the site asks.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:00 PM

68. all one needs do is read the titles of the articles in voice for men. wow. i did a post on that one

a whole lot of ugly

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:12 AM

46. One of the biggest traps society falls in is to fight for rights as individual groups...

 

Rather than as a whole.

Men included.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #46)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:14 AM

47. yup everyone finds their own cross to carry without realising that everyone bears a burden

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:21 AM

50. There has never been a group that fought for equal rights

that has denied that individuals bear their own burdens,ever. That's a bullshit deflection.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:18 AM

49. Back in the bad old 70's...

When I was just trying out my fledgling, feminist wings, I had a pin that said "Men of quality are not threatened by women seeking equality." It's still true today.

I'm one of 4 daughters...no sons in the mix. My parents (and especially my father) brought us up to be strong, thinking, independent women. We were taught at an early age that we needed to be responsible for ourselves, to always be able to support ourselves, and never be in a position where our survival meant staying in the good graces of a man. (Which is probably why I started hearing about how important is was to go to college when I was 5!) This didn't turn any of us into bitter, man-hating adults. We all created good, solid marriages bringing our own strengths and capabilities to compliment those of our husbands. Speaking for myself, my husband was relieved to find a woman who was totally prepared (and able) bring a pretty healthy income to the household. He actually found this dynamic very freeing to him...he could pursue employment that he enjoyed, not something that he HAD to do to support us. He could also take time off from work and recharge his batteries, because I could cover the bills. (And in all honesty, he was better at housework than me! )

So to those angry, bitter men who long for the dark ages when women stayed home and were kept barefoot and pregnant, couldn't own property or vote, and white men got all the good jobs...get the hell over it. Come into the light of the 21st century and learn how to enjoy the benefits that feminism has brought us. And whether you want to admit it or not, YOU!

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Response to WinstonSmith4740 (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:00 PM

80. this is the norm these days, women working and contributing equally whether she takes time

to have kids or not.
It seems the bitterest men are those that try and live like it's the old days and fail at being the sole support. They can't blame feminists for choosing that path, but god knows they twist it around and try...

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:26 AM

51. "We need to name, shame and ridicule the male collaborators" so lets not pretend this is not used as

a weapon. and that it is harmless. when we clearly know the intent.

fuck 'em

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:28 AM

53. Women's rights are Human Rights.

Attacks on Women's Rights diminish us all. We should name, shame and ridicule these insipid bigots that hide behind a false moniker of Men's Rights. Chickenshit bastards.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:02 PM

69. this is not the fringe, they are not harmless and they do have power over our lives. look at the rw

today. that is your MRA. listen to the language we have from repugs in 2012. that is the MRA

do not believe it has not gone mainstream. it is here. with us. and it is spreading.

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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:27 PM

70. Hey! Quit bitchin'.

You-all womens getcherselves pregnant,barefoot and back in the kitchen washing them-there dishes. We is mens and we is supererererior.





Really, as far as I'm concerned,women are a better class of people generally speaking and the sooner the majority of our legislators are women, the quicker we will become a more gentle,reasonable, enlightened country. This macho bullshit hasn't gotten it.






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Response to boston bean (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:39 PM

81. Wondering where on this spectrum this comment I found last night falls under.

I was looking for a flick on youtube and this was posted an hour before I got there. If anyone's seen this movie, it showed women in a postiive light. It was a violent movie, but look at this extreme reaction to the way the film portrayed women.

This is a mindset, I've hardly ever dealt with, part of a whole cloth that is scary for women, IMO. I wondered if this would be termed sexism or misogny, but had to go with the latter. It shows a profound hatred of women and a denial of their humanity:

THE PATRIOT (2001) - Mel Gibson - Full Movie

Splitting the URL so it won't post as a video here:

http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v= eWMCR8Wadtw

LiveOakOkie 1 hour ago

I like how they have the woman in the church standing up making a speech. She should have been hog tied and flogged for speaking out of turn. This is definitely not they way it was done back then. This is a modern take with a feminist acquiescence that is disgusting and unnatural. There's women standing around all over the place in prominent positions. Women are to be subordinate and silent for the most part, taking care of the children and shutting their face.

I went to this guy's channel, there wasn't much and I'm guessing he is a juvenile. I worry about any young female around this kind of thinking.

Okay, what is the DU mind on this? is this mental illness, religious fundamentalism or is it being taught somewhere?

If so, the future of women will be bleak indeed.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:55 PM

84. fundamentalistly misogynist??? they cant go back. we are not going back. so no....

our future does not look bleak. those that want that though, well, disappointment cause you cannot stuff the genie back in the bottle

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #84)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:15 PM

85. Why so frigging hateful, though? I'd fear for any female within this guy's range. It's not a matter

of choice what family or community one is born into.

I doubt any woman within reach 'would want that.' And any child who would grow up that way, their future is bleak and not their choice.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2005/spring/tempest-in-texas?page=0,1

The only place I can imagine indoctrination in that level of hatred is a church or a family, but the OP describes this a political group.

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