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Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:31 PM

For anyone who still wants to legalize meth...

Big ass warning: Very graphic photos of meth addicts.

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-faces-of-meth-ads-are-utterly-harrowing-2012-12

127 replies, 11931 views

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Reply For anyone who still wants to legalize meth... (Original post)
Archae Dec 2012 OP
Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2012 #1
tkmorris Dec 2012 #2
Archae Dec 2012 #5
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #8
tkmorris Dec 2012 #13
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #106
arely staircase Dec 2012 #108
jpak Dec 2012 #98
JVS Dec 2012 #20
justice1 Dec 2012 #39
Occulus Dec 2012 #59
Quantess Dec 2012 #40
TeamPooka Dec 2012 #65
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #56
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #102
dballance Dec 2012 #3
Archae Dec 2012 #10
morningfog Dec 2012 #4
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #6
Cleita Dec 2012 #7
Kaleva Dec 2012 #9
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #103
Dash87 Dec 2012 #11
Archae Dec 2012 #12
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #14
-..__... Dec 2012 #15
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #18
Occulus Dec 2012 #62
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #63
xmas74 Dec 2012 #117
jeff47 Dec 2012 #75
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #82
jeff47 Dec 2012 #84
randome Dec 2012 #87
jeff47 Dec 2012 #90
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #115
A Little Weird Dec 2012 #85
jpak Dec 2012 #99
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #100
femrap Dec 2012 #16
TroglodyteScholar Dec 2012 #55
femrap Dec 2012 #69
TroglodyteScholar Dec 2012 #78
Codeine Dec 2012 #66
femrap Dec 2012 #71
msongs Dec 2012 #17
dsc Dec 2012 #19
colorado_ufo Dec 2012 #21
dsc Dec 2012 #27
LynneSin Dec 2012 #29
Occulus Dec 2012 #60
jeff47 Dec 2012 #81
A Little Weird Dec 2012 #88
jeff47 Dec 2012 #89
Panasonic Dec 2012 #109
Mariana Dec 2012 #123
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #22
complain jane Dec 2012 #23
DeSwiss Dec 2012 #24
rocktivity Dec 2012 #25
TeamPooka Dec 2012 #26
stonecutter357 Dec 2012 #28
Aristus Dec 2012 #30
Kurska Dec 2012 #31
RedCappedBandit Dec 2012 #32
randome Dec 2012 #45
Romulox Dec 2012 #50
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #57
randome Dec 2012 #64
naaman fletcher Dec 2012 #68
RedCappedBandit Dec 2012 #105
randome Dec 2012 #110
RedCappedBandit Dec 2012 #122
RainDog Dec 2012 #33
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #42
Archae Dec 2012 #58
easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #120
alphafemale Dec 2012 #34
SheilaT Dec 2012 #35
Hyper_Eye Dec 2012 #41
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #51
Codeine Dec 2012 #67
SheilaT Dec 2012 #93
handmade34 Dec 2012 #107
RudynJack Dec 2012 #36
PavePusher Dec 2012 #37
Ya Basta Dec 2012 #38
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #43
NC_Nurse Dec 2012 #44
99Forever Dec 2012 #46
_ed_ Dec 2012 #47
JoeyT Dec 2012 #48
Romulox Dec 2012 #49
marmar Dec 2012 #52
Recursion Dec 2012 #53
fredamae Dec 2012 #54
slackmaster Dec 2012 #61
Nevernose Dec 2012 #70
davsand Dec 2012 #72
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #73
Mariana Dec 2012 #119
Sheepshank Dec 2012 #74
jeff47 Dec 2012 #83
A Little Weird Dec 2012 #92
jeff47 Dec 2012 #94
A Little Weird Dec 2012 #96
jeff47 Dec 2012 #124
polly7 Dec 2012 #76
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #77
ronnie624 Dec 2012 #79
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #80
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #112
Taverner Dec 2012 #86
derby378 Dec 2012 #91
scratcho Dec 2012 #95
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #97
AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #104
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #116
AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #101
arely staircase Dec 2012 #111
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #113
DefenseLawyer Dec 2012 #114
Mariana Dec 2012 #118
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #121
Name removed Nov 2013 #125
uppityperson Nov 2013 #127
FiveGoodMen Nov 2013 #126

Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:37 PM

1. Huh? Has anyone actually suggested that?

I mean, I know there is a lot of libertarian nonsense posted here on a litany of subjects, but meth?

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:41 PM

2. I'm gonna go with no, no one has suggested that here.

Of course, it's possible someone MIGHT have suggested that we treat people for their addiction to Meth rather than simply throw them into dank little slices of hell, but I'm guessing that would be all.

I invite the OP to prove me wrong.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:44 PM

5. Not here, but at other message boards, I saw meth being advocated for.

Using the same language and tactics used to legalize pot.

Even though pot is a WHOLE 'NOTHER subject.

Just look how Ron Paul wants to legalize everything. Heroin, meth, everything.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:46 PM

8. This is but 1 of 318,000 hits doing a site search for "legalize meth" (without quotes)

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:09 AM

13. Well, that's the way a search engine works

Do it without the quotes and any page that contains both words, and with many engines any page that contains EITHER word, will show up.

As for the post you linked to it's two and a half years old, and the posters in the thread are pretty resoundingly is against the idea. I apologize if my tone isn't coming across well ( I am really not trying to be confrontational about this ) but I am not fond of posts like the OP in that they seem to imply that there are people here who are outspoken advocates of such a thing. They ARE the people being addressed after all, and he DID post it here.

If that was not the implication intended from the OP, again I apologize.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:57 PM

106. I know how search engines work, thanks. Aside from that, there ARE a vocal group of people who

think crystal meth should be legalized and are not afraid to voice those thoughts. I've been part of a few of those threads myself and in no uncertain terms made my disagreement with the notion of legalization known.

I'm very familiar with it, both through personal experience as a user and through my acquaintances with other users. I've never EVER seen any good from its use and have to laugh when I see people talk about how some need it to work 2+ jobs or whatever. Me, I've never seen anyone accomplish anything while using it at all. In fact, I've seen more crystal users sit and play video games and do NOTHING else than I've seen them do any kind of work.

There is a thread right now advocating legalization of meth.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #106)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:19 PM

108. +1

i have nothing to add to that other than i could have written it.

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Response to tkmorris (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:04 PM

98. Yes they have

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:00 AM

20. I support legalization of meth.

Pharmaceutical quality meth would become the norm and would be less damaging to the addicts. In fact, in a less restrictive environment they would probably be able to get their hands on stimulants that were commonplace in the mid-20th century and not choose meth anyway.

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Response to JVS (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:39 AM

39. I totally disagree.

I am from a small town in Nebraska, that was notorious for meth. I watched to many people fall prey to the drug, that had a lot going for them. There is absolutely no reason to legalize it.

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Response to justice1 (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:48 AM

59. *AHEM*

Methamphetamine occurs in two enantiomers, dextrorotary and levorotary; dextromethamphetamine possesses the well-known psychostimulant effects of the drug, while levomethamphetamine is CNS-inactive. Although rarely prescribed, dextromethamphetamine is FDA approved for the treatment of ADHD and obesity under the trade name Desoxyn, while levomethamphetamine is a non-prescription over-the-counter nasal decongestant.

...

MEDICAL USE

Methamphetamine has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in treating ADHD and exogenous obesity (obesity originating from factors outside of the patient's control) in both adults and children.


Wiki

Cannabis is Schedule I; methamphetamine is Schedule II.

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:46 AM

40. Oh yes, there are a handful who broadly assert that all substances should be legalized.

It falls under the blanket of "all drugs".

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Response to Quantess (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:51 PM

65. because ilegal drugs create a black market that cannot be controlled.

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:13 AM

56. I'm suggesting it right now.

 

It should be legalized. The damage to society from it being illegal is much greater than the impact of the drug. And besides, I don't think that the illegality is stopping anyone really from using it anyway.

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Response to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:32 PM

102. I would legalize all drugs, including meth.

I don't see how I benefit from people going to prison for ingesting things.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:43 PM

3. There are tons of people who wish to legalize MJ But Not many on Meth

Maybe I have not been trolling the internet enough but I don't recall seeing a lot of pro-meth sites and arguments.

That's probably because in studies MJ seems to be less harmful than alcohol. The same cannot be said for meth.

Meth is a lethal, terribly harmful drug. Unlike MJ where all one has to do is plant and cultivate to get the product the production of meth requires labs with toxic chemicals and which have been known to explode and burn. I believe it is typical for law enforcement to call in hazmat teams when the discover meth labs.

So I'm curious. Could you provide me links to the pro-meth sites?

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Response to dballance (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:47 PM

10. Just Google "meth legalization"

Found many sites advocating for legalizing meth.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:43 PM

4. Such a sad drug and addiction.

These people are suffering from an illness. Criminalization is not the most effective route to treat their illness. If anything, criminalizing their illness exacerbates the problem and cause greater harm.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:45 PM

6. It's a ghastly drug, absolutely a ghastly drug. I feel so sorry for people that get

caught up in meth, so horribly disfigured and all of the damage to their bodies.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:45 PM

7. I don't need your gallery.

I have a couple who live up the hill from me and I see them around at least once a week. They are toothless and unhealthy looking. They periodically scream and yell nonsense and you can hear them all over the hill. They get lost and end up on people's property not knowing where they are and people have to push them in the right direction for them to get home. They are really pathetic people who have wasted their lives. It's extremely sad.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:46 PM

9. I don't recall seeing anyone advocating for meth to be legalized.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:33 PM

103. I think meth should be legalized.

I think all drugs should be legalized.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:50 PM

11. They all look like they just leapt out of a coffin

Meth is such a disturbing drug, and another reason to not take libertarians seriously.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:53 PM

12. The one about half-way down the page was the worst.

She looked like a lab blew up in her face.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:15 AM

14. Who wants to legalize meth?

I've never seen a DUer call for that.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:36 AM

15. And if someone posts "legalize all drugs"...

 

do they really mean "ALL drugs"?

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&as_epq=legalize+all+drugs&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=www.democraticunderground.com&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=

A poll...


Poll question: Another Legalize drugs poll

Edited on Wed Mar-25-09 04:48 PM by TheCoxwain
I ve nothing better to do .. So I am asking you what drugs should we legalize and tax ?

Poll result (54 votes)
None at all (4 votes, 7%)
Weed (21 votes, 39%) Vote
Above + Hash (3 votes, 6%)
Above+ Ecstacy (0 votes, 0%)
Above + Opiates ( this one is for you Rush Limpball) (0 votes, 0%)
Everything except _______________ ( Your choice here) (0 votes, 0%)
Everything (23 votes, 43%)
Other Combination (3 votes, 6%)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5329364

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Response to -..__... (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:51 AM

18. Since meth isn't mentioned I'm going to assume 23 people weren't thinking

or they were on meth at the time

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:57 AM

62. Meth is already "more legal" than cannabis on the federal level

Check the schedules.

And yes, there are legitimate medical uses for meth. It's prescribed in pill form.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:45 PM

63. But the legally prescribed 'meth' isn't as nasty as the shit that is made by illegal labs.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:22 PM

117. you've got that right

I've lost friends to prisons,institutions,and have buried a few all due to the nasty illegal bathtub crap.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:46 PM

75. Meth should be legalized

An enormous part of the damage caused by meth is the fact that it's getting mixed up in someone's basement from all sorts of nasty chemicals.

Pharmaceutical-grade meth does not cause that damage - in fact it's safe enough that your doctor can prescribe it.

It's also extremely likely that ending the "War on Drugs" would result in meth addicts switching to other stimulants, which cause even fewer problems. However, those stimulants require a lab to produce - meth can be "made at home".

The war on drugs should end so that we can stop spending a fortune on enforcement and spend waaaaaaay less treating addiction and the social problems that lead to addiction.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #75)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:59 PM

82. So you want it legalized and regulated?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:07 PM

84. Yes.

Doctor-supervised maintenance doses - and as I mentioned the addicts will probably switch to a different, safer stimulant in such a program.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #84)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:11 PM

87. Because addicts are known for their rational behavior?

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Response to randome (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:24 PM

90. When the doctor offers them something that works as well

costs less and has fewer side effects, why would they say no?

Would they be bothered when they wore their "I'm a meth addict" t-shirt?

They're a "meth addict" because they can get meth - it doesn't require a lab to make it. What they are actually addicted to is a particular class of stimulant. There are other options than meth to service that addiction when you are buying the drugs legally.

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Response to randome (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:15 PM

115. When addicts are given a safe and cheap way to get their fix, they'll take it.

So, yeah, I'm for making it legal to do addiction maintenance under a doctor's supervision.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:09 PM

85. Right here on DU.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021950651

I have seen what meth can do to a person. I do not think it should be legalized.

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Response to jpak (Reply #99)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:11 PM

100. Posted AFTER my question was posted.

Ahem.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:41 AM

16. I used to use a Chinese

 

herb, Ma Huang, to calm my appetite. I'm an evening eater so I would take some of this herb around 4:00 pm. It did not make me jittery nor keep me from sleeping. It simply calmed my appetite and gave me a bit of energy thru my low time of the day.

Some idiot student from OH State U decided to take an entire bottle of this and drive straight thru from FL back to OH at Spring Break....he died. And now Ma Huang is illegal. Take an entire bottle of aspirin and one will be dead as well.

I actually believe that Big Pharma wants Americans to be fat...think of all the drugs and doctor visits.....and the $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!.

I took Ma Huang for 2 or 3 years and lost about 30 pounds and kept the weight off. Now I'm fat again.....and there is nothing available from Big Pharma except Ritalin. NOTHING. No wonder we're all fat and diabetic.

Look at China....if Ma Huang were deadly, there wouldn't be so many Chinese people.

Now I'm giving up American wheat products....and I've lost 6 lbs. with no effort. Just think if I start exercising!

I really wish it would be against the law to have any Food or Restaurant TV commercials after 9:00 pm but my mother said, "Good luck with that."

ETA: The reason I brought up this herb is that many women take meth at first to lose weight....or more common is to work 2 or 3 jobs and take care of the kids. I know there is a safe way to increase energy and lose weight w/o taking Meth....but Meth is the only available drug....in the days of 'DIET PILLS,' the docs would give us 'Black Beauties,' Dexadrine and Dexamyl (the best because it had a tranquilizer kick in after 12 hrs.). It's all a big f*cking racket to make us sick, fat and put us in jail.

Germany and France have NO PROBLEMS WITH METH. NOW WHY IS THAT???????????????????

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Response to femrap (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:02 AM

55. IMO exercising should have occurred to you well before some eastern medicine.

Not every condition can be (or should be) corrected with a pill. If you'd tried exercising first, perhaps you wouldn't have ever bothered with a potentially dangerous drug at all.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #55)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:17 PM

69. Oh I did....

 

walked about 20 to 45 minutes/day and did aerobics for 60 minutes about 5 to 6 days a week.

As I said, my problem was eating at night....and that just counteracted all of my day's work. Plus I was eating healthily...a non-dairy diet at the time.

Regarding walking: if you live in a climate with 4 seasons, sometimes getting outside in 95 degree weather or 10 degree weather is tough. Plus you will find that many towns don't have sidewalks. So one must drive to a place to walk....and hopefully the sidewalks have been shoveled.

We don't all live in temperate climates like San Francisco. And lots of us don't live in big homes where we can install a treadmill (or can we afford it). I lift milk cartons filled with dirt/sand.

I guess we can all go walk at the mall, but I really need some hills to go my heart pumping.

The cheapest form of exercise is putting music on and dancing...that's usually what I do.

But I still miss the Chinese Herb.

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Response to femrap (Reply #69)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:50 PM

78. thwre all all kinds of reasons not to exercise, but none as good as the on big reason to do it

Sorry, looks like you've got some decent ideas about how to be active...I just assumed from your previous post that it might be a last resort for you since you said, "imagine if I started exercising," or something like that.

I hope you can find a good way to address your weight... my gal likes to nibble, and one way she's dealt with it is to find healthy snack foods that she enjoys. Are you likely to find a healthy snack that you enjoy every bit as much as a bag of chips? No... but if you can find just a few healthy treats that scratch that itch a little, that can go a long way.

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Response to femrap (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:57 PM

66. Actually meth use is starting to boom in Europe.

And E, which is very speed-like, has been huge for a long while.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:20 PM

71. I'm so old that

 

I remember when Ecstasy hit the streets. It was a milder form of MDA (CA love drug).

Speed kills.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:42 AM

17. thank god meth being illegal has fixed the meth problem lolololol nt

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:57 AM

19. The question is has making meth illegal done anything to solve or lesson

the problems that meth have caused. I think that we should consider treating all drug use as a medical issue instead of a crime.

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Response to dsc (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:56 AM

21. Meth is a real problem in this little town.

One thing making it illegal does is give police authority to try to prevent the manufacture, which is nuthin' like growing a few marijuana plants in one's backyard! Personally, I am not fond of having my next-door neighbor's house blow up. Police and social services are constantly going in to rescue children whose parents seem to think manufacturing this sh_t is a great way to make a living, regardless of the toxicity and danger to their children.

Meth should not be considered a "drug," but rather an addicting chemical, like sniffing glue or drinking gasoline. It has no pharmaceutical use or value whatsoever.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:29 AM

27. I would have no problem banning its manufacture

for the reason you site.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:33 AM

29. +100!

My friends and I were talking about the pot legalization out in CO/WA. My 2 cents is this. Mother nature created Marijuana and outside of drying the plant there isn't a whole lot else you have to do to make it smokeable.

I have no problem with people using a product made by nature that is used in it's natural form which would include Marijuana and even Mushrooms. Some guidance to ensure these are things that adults are using should be in place and that people aren't driving while using these items are needed but at home - go for it. Mind you I have never done an illegal drug EVER (although I think I got a contact high from The Who concert tonight).

Meth is NOT natural. The way it is created it's a very toxic poisonous chemical addiction. And it not only deteriorates people, like what we saw in that photo, but it deteriorates communities too.

I know someone said criminalization is not the answer. But when it comes to Meth addicts sometimes that's the only way you're gonna get them to stop using.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:55 AM

60. "It has no pharmaceutical use or value whatsoever."

That is actually untrue, believe it or not. There are in fact some (rare) conditions, such as narcolepsy, for which methamphetamine is prescribed. Please note that such prescriptions are occasionally written for children.

Also, bear in mind throughout all of this that cannabis is a Schedule I drug (no medical value; high potential for abuse and addiction), while methamphetamine is Schedule II.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:54 PM

81. The unsafe manufacture is caused by making it illegal.

If you bought it from Pfizer, your neighbor's house would remain explosion-free.

It has no pharmaceutical use or value whatsoever.

It's prescribed as a treatment for ADHD. Your doctor can give you a prescription for it today. You will get a bottle of pills that were safely manufactured by some giant pharmaceutical company.

For comparison, doctors can't prescribe pot. Some states say they can, but Federal law says no.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:15 PM

88. I don't know why people believe meds are safe just because they've been perscribed

It was prescribed meth that killed my 26 year old cousin.

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Response to A Little Weird (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:22 PM

89. The fact that they have to be prescribed indicates they are dangerous

The fact that they can be prescribed indicates that they are safer than other drugs which can not be prescribed.

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Response to colorado_ufo (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:21 PM

109. What town do you live in, if you don't mind me asking

 

I live in the same state as you do, and never seen a meth addict.

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Response to Panasonic (Reply #109)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 07:59 PM

123. I've never seen one either.

I've seen a lot of alcoholics who were living on the street, who looked just as bad as all the meth addicts in those pictures.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:02 AM

22. It's good that people realize all drugs aren't created equal.

I think for shit like meth, the question becomes, do we treat it as a law enforcement issue, a public health issue, how do we go?

I also think part of what you're seeing with Meth is the fallout from DARE classes that lie to kids about pot, so they don't believe any anti-drug warnings. The best ad against meth is meth users themselves. The money we spend on pot prohibition (far and away most of the DEA budget) could go towards a lot of education and treatment on demand for things like meth.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:05 AM

23. Heartbreaking

I don't recall having heard of anyone who wants to legalize meth.

This drug is horrific. Years ago I had a friend named Al. We were part of a group of friends in our 20's and we just hung out and liked to have a few beers and maybe some other recreational things here and there. I moved away and hadn't seen him for about 2 years, one day I run into him working in a car wash and I was horrified. I thought he was a little old man at first. He was missing all of his teeth, he looked like walking dead. I knew what he had gotten into without even asking. What a shame.

Also, years ago I picked up certain drugs when I was very young for the first time after many beers because I felt invincible. Thank God I never ended up addicted to anything, and thank God I never picked up meth or heroin. I may very well have ended up as these people have in the photos.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:08 AM

24. ''The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.'' ~Tacitus, Roman Senator n/t

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:21 AM

25. And now for something completely different




rocktivity

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:28 AM

26. so you are in favor of drug cartels profiting from the drug's sales then...

because that's what prohibition does: it creates black markets.
If everything is legal then there are no "forbidden fruits"
Treat drug addiction like alcoholism and not as a criminal issue.
The world will be a better place.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:31 AM

28. Sad for you

HIT PIECE!

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:37 AM

30. Nothing shocking there. I have lots of patients who look like that.

They lead miserable, awful lives, most of them. I try to do my best for them, including de-tox and treatment, but if they don't want to quit, they're not going to quit...

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:51 AM

31. Most of the hororrs of meth come from the shitty chemicals it is cut with on the street.

If you legalized it none of those pictures would be valid anymore.

But don't let that get in the way of your moral outrage at other people putting chemicals into their body.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:06 AM

32. These pics evidence of the success of the war on drugs?

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 07:43 AM

45. Yes, because there would be a lot more of them.

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Response to randome (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:14 AM

50. LOL. Hard to argue with illogic like this. nt

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Response to randome (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:29 AM

57. Is there evidence of that in other countries?

 

In places were drugs are legal, or at least tolerated, is there an increase in use?

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:50 PM

64. There are studies on both sides, of course.

I found this one.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/debate/myths/myths4.htm

I support decriminalization for users but not legalization.

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Response to randome (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:12 PM

68. thanks nt

 

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Response to randome (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:51 PM

105. How many people do you know

who choose not to use meth because of its legal status?

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #105)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:24 PM

110. You really think it's that simple?

People don't wake up one morning and say, "Think I'll use some meth. Oh. Wait. It's illegal."

It starts because they hang out with someone else who has some or knows how to make it. And I am all in favor of lessening the occurrence of that.

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Response to randome (Reply #110)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 07:26 PM

122. I simply fail to see how the legality of the drug

has any impact on its use as a medical issue.

The threat of jail isn't a significant deterrent, and forcing people into rehab against their will only serves to introduce them to connections.

Our money should be spent on things like poverty, homelessness, health care including mental health,education, etc. We shouldn't be wasting it funding the ineffective DEA and the failed war on drugs, IMO.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:10 AM

33. Support for legalization of various things isn't an endorsement of them

Surely people here are no so simplistic in their thinking that they equate the two. That's propaganda, not reality.

The reason to support legalization is to have affordable and pure product available to addicts at the same place where they can obtain needles, etc., as with heroin (another substance most people do not endorse in any way.)

The societal costs of addiction, beyond the family, are in crime and disease related to addiction. In other nations, making harmful drugs available legally, with increased treatment facilities for those who want to stop using has been more effective than simply treating addiction as a criminal problem.

As the pictures show, illegality does not stop people from using a harmful substance. Is there another way to look at this issue that helps addicts and deprives criminal entities of a source of income?

Some people, including me, think that moving from a criminal to health-centered approach is needed for drug addiction. President Obama thinks the same thing, but he's not in for decriminalization - he's in a position that would make such a stance too "outside" of conventional thinking in the U.S.

But Kurt Schmoke, former mayor of Baltimore, endorses legalization. As he notes - the criminal problem isn't the drug, it's the drug money.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:00 AM

42. +1 nt

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Response to RainDog (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:38 AM

58. For meth, I think you're right.

Meth users should be treated. Not jailed.
(Unless they commit crimes to get money for their dope, I've already seen how meth addicts will steal anything.)

The ones who do need to be jailed are the makers.
And add reckless endangerment to the charges they are already facing.

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Response to RainDog (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:38 PM

120. ^^^this^^^^

My view exactly.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:26 AM

34. Decriminalizing it would have a net zero effect on user numbers.

It is poison. Period.

I doubt there is one sane person who would decide to use meth just because it was decriminalized.

Those people need help. Not prison.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:45 AM

35. Isn't the show Breaking Bad

about meth?

I watched the first episode, and was so appalled by it that I could not watch any more. Making the production of meth seem glamorous or desirable? Why? It's a totally evil drug with no redeeming features whatsoever. I'm horrified that the show is considered worth watching.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:49 AM

41. If you think Breaking Bad makes meth production look glamorous...

You didn't watch enough. That show makes it look like one of the worst things you could consider doing. They also make drug addiction and addicts look dire. Not only does it make meth look awful it caused one of my friends to quit smoking cigarettes due to its depiction of lung cancer. Breaking Bad is one of the best shows on television. It can't really be judged by the first episode alone.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:25 AM

51. You must have been watching something else, Breaking Bad makes the meth world

look violent and unhinged, both users and manufacturers. How any educated person could claim that show makes meth look glamorous or desireable is beyond my comprehension. It is one of the finest television shows of our time. A cautionary tale if ever there was one.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:59 PM

67. That's because you stopped watching.

Breaking Bad shows the absolute moral and physical degeneration of meth users/makers in horrific detail. Walter White went from being a decent guy with a bad idea to an utterly horrible individual void of all redeeming qualities.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:31 PM

93. I thank you all for your responses.

I found the first show so totally horrifying that I was and still am completely unwilling to watch any more.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #93)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:05 PM

107. tough show to watch, but

I watched and think the show was brilliant...

"Breaking Bad leads US Writers Guild TV nominations"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20638434

"Drug drama Breaking Bad has dominated the television nominations for the Writers Guild of America (WGA) Awards, leading the way in five categories...
The series, which stars Bryan Cranston as a science teacher-turned-drug dealer, picked up nominations for best drama and four for individual episodes...
Breaking Bad, which is in its fifth and final season, won the WGA's award for best drama at this year's event..."

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:58 AM

36. And I can post

pictures of late-stage alcoholics who look like hell. It doesn't mean we should outlaw alcohol.

Meth is horrible- it takes an awful toll on people who are addicted. The question is does the current system work? I think it's clear the answer is no.

I don't know what the solution is, but what we're doing now clearly doesn't work.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:26 AM

37. So what? Just think of it as evolution in action.

 

Anyway, criminalisation has worked out so well, right?

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:35 AM

38. Outlawing the consumption of any substance = outlawing ownership over your own mind & body

 

And in my book not having ownership over your own mind & body = one of the definitions of slavery.

n/t

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 07:09 AM

43. How has criminalization helped?

By the way meth was legal for 30 or so years without huge problems. The meth problem appears to be independent of its legality.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 07:19 AM

44. Decriminalization is different than legalization. When you criminalize addicts, they are less likely

to seek treatment. Prison is not the answer for these people. It's a HEALTH issue, not a criminal issue.

I don't think people are advocating legalization of meth or the other more destructive street drugs. Decriminalization is a way to get these people out of the criminal justice system and spend the money on effective education and treatment. Portugal decriminalized all drugs and ended up reducing the use of these drugs quite a bit. Their rates of recovery are higher too.

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Response to NC_Nurse (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:35 AM

46. So true.

However, our society has drilled the idea that there must be a punishment so deeply into our psyche that most actually believe that laws and prisons are the best route to curing addictions. Just another in the multitude of ways our society has become a callous and heartless wasteland.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:40 AM

47. Putting addicts into cages solves nothing

All drugs should be legalized.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:12 AM

48. Nope, didn't change my mind.

I still support decriminalizing it and creating state funded rehab centers.

The prohibitionist model isn't working, or that link would be empty.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:13 AM

49. For any demoralized Drug Warrior who wants to beat up a strawman... nt

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:27 AM

52. I've seen posts from people wanting to decriminalize it, not legalize it.


Big difference.


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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:35 AM

53. When rich kids take meth it's called Adderall

When poor kids take it it's called meth.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:49 AM

54. I want to legalize All drugs

Last edited Mon Dec 10, 2012, 10:10 AM - Edit history (1)

What we are doing is Not working. Drug Laws Do Not Deter Drug Use. Anyone wanting to start using any drug will do so in spite of any and all statutory authority that governs What we put in our bodies.
Harm Reduction Education, however, if ever employed actually Works. We only need to look at the Anti-Tobacco campaign that has Effectively educated our kids to not use Tobacco products by giving them Facts, not fear. They are empowered to make an informed decision when their peers offer them cigarettes etc. Parents are Never around when kids are offered drugs--Alcohol to Tobacco to Meth etc. We Must tell our kids the Whole truth-they'll take care of the rest. It is a Human Reaction to physical Threat to Survive. Once kids are given the Hard, Factual Truth about Anything they consume-from too much fast-food to hard drugs-they will make healthier decisions.....
"Soccer Moms" need to wake the hell up! Our kids/grand-kids etc are recruited to Sell drugs for black market dealers for cash money...all the time. But we don't see Tobacco and Alcohol, both Legal and Regulated, being "schlepped" at school now do we?
http://www.leap.cc/for-the-media/the-war-on-drugs-at-a-glance/
http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/zogby2007.htm
I would Much rather treat addiction as a matter of Health Care. It does not belong under the purview of Criminal Justice. Maintaining this issue under Law Enforcement "management" is a "for Profit" argument based on fear and ommission of facts.
If we had a system of clinics where addicts can get their drugs Cheaply-$3.00 a day VS $300.-$500. a day, Automatically Public Safety is Increased because they wouldn't feel compelled to break into our homes, steal from us-hurt us & our families to support their habit....in the clinic setting they'll get clean drugs, clean needles--And Recovery Treatment. We can do This and save Billions. We the tax payer would finally be getting a Return on Our tax dollar investment.
This method is Promoting recovery, providing Harm Reduction Education and giving these folks a solid pathway Back to being Productive members of society.

And of course-Legalizing All Drugs Does Not mean Any of them would end up on Any supermarket shelves.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:57 AM

61. Removing the criminal stigma from addiction is not equivalent to sanctioning use of the drug

 

Addiction is a medical problem and should be treated as such.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:18 PM

70. Your pictures actually SUPPORT legalization

They're all mugshots. Ergo, meth was illegal yet they obtained it anyway.

Meth is a family crushing, soul-destroying nightmare, but our current War on Drugs is clearly not working or winnable. The legal status has clearly not prevented any of the people in your photos from taking meth. It's time for a different approach.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:24 PM

72. At some point Darwin comes into play.

I've become convinced over the years that all drugs should be "legal." I have also come to the conclusion that all drug rehab or treatment needs to be free. I don't think jail is the place for drug users, and I am pretty sure that it is clear by now that prohibition doesn't work.



Laura

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:26 PM

73. So should we show pictures of FAS kids as an argument against alcohol?

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #73)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:24 PM

119. You can use pics of the alcoholics themselves.

End-stage drunks generally look pretty damned horrible.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:38 PM

74. For those adocating legalization

...would that solve the problem of addiction with no money to buy...Addicts unable to hold down jobs and finding 'other' ways to pay for their addictions?

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:03 PM

83. It would greatly reduce the problem

Legally manufactured pills would be roughly 1000x less expensive and have the benefit of not being so horrifically impure that it causes those pictures.

A large part of the problems of addicts are caused by what they have to do to fund their addiction. Your typical alcoholic is able to function in society. Sure their family life is usually a wreck, but they're not creating as many problems as a drug addict.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:27 PM

92. Poor people

Our society does not really take care of poor people. Many people can't afford to go to the doctor for antibiotics when they are sick much less for prescription meth. They will still cook it at home if it is legalized. You can't really compare the results from Europe to the USA for this reason. European countries tend to have a much stronger social safety net.

I do support decriminalizing drug use. Getting treatment for people would be far better than throwing them in a cell. But again, the US doesn't really seem to support that model. We will throw money into for-profit prisons but not into treatment facilities. It's very sad.

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Response to A Little Weird (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:33 PM

94. And if I were dictator, the savings for ending the war on drugs would be used to help them.

They will still cook it at home if it is legalized.

Not when cooking it at home costs more. Which it would - buying industrial chemicals on an industrial scale is much less expensive. The ingredients in Drano used to make meth are a tiny fraction of the cost of the bottle you buy at the store.

I do support decriminalizing drug use.

Then drugs will remain more dangerous and more expensive, thus harming the poor.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #94)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:51 PM

96. Costs

I'm not sure how you know what the cost of mass-produced meth will be. Even if you do know, the amount charged to the consumer is often not the true cost of manufacture. I can't imagine a pharmaceutical company making the product cheaper than what is being cooked up at home. There are many ways to make meth at home - one of the reason it's so popular is because it's so cheap. But I admit that I'm pretty biased against big pharma corporations, so maybe I'm wrong on that.

I have to leave now, but thank you for the discussion (even if we don't agree).

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Response to A Little Weird (Reply #96)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:37 PM

124. There's not much room for price gouging when the drugs aren't patented.

Meth and several members of it's drug family aren't patented anymore. If one company wants to overcharge a ton, then someone will make it cheaper. Especially when there's plenty of demand to justify creating a new production line.

I can't imagine a pharmaceutical company making the product cheaper than what is being cooked up at home

You are seriously arguing that the small bottles of Draino we buy at a store are cheaper than the tanker truck-sized quantities bought by the Draino company.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:47 PM

76. Heartbreaking.

The 30 y/o woman on the right side of the page looks like she was severely burned.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:48 PM

77. You know, the war on drugs is a miserable failure

And Portugal's approach, even with meth, has reduced actual use.

But hey, if you think prison gets tweakers off the drugs...whatever.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:53 PM

79. Propaganda.

With perhaps a bit of photoshop to enhance its persuasiveness.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:54 PM

80. Drug abuse should be a MEDICAL issue, not a criminal one.

These people need medical help NOT jail time.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #80)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:04 PM

112. +1 nt

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:10 PM

86. Yes, and that's somehow our problem?

 

Alcohol will make you look bad too, as will smoking cigs and using tanning booths

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:27 PM

91. If you have a serious case of narcolepsy or ADHD, you can already get legal meth

It's sold by Abbott Laboratories under the brand name Desoxyn, IIRC. The side effects can be a little harsh, so I'd be just fine if I never have to take that stuff. But if a doctor ever confirms that I need to medicate myself with meth, a Schedule II prescription form will suffice.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:43 PM

95. Here 'ya go.

Last edited Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Take a closed military base,open it to any and all meth-heads,put the word out nationwide,confine them there,provide them with "GOOD" meth,(whatever that might be)food, a warm place to sleep and drug counciling ,all through the national budget if and when the wars are over so it could be afforded. Voila--no more theft from my yard/house or yours. And hopefully the help needed for them to get off it. Makes about as much sense as 'declaring' a substance to be illegal,when virtually any chemical can be gotten at any time.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 02:57 PM

97. Prohibition has been beneficial in addressing this issue in what respects?

It seems to me the tighter the squeeze the worse it gets and the more pictures there are to show.

The tactic has failed, it shows no other impact than turning hill into mountains and fueling a predatory prison industry with perverse incentives to increase crime.

No, emotional appeals don't paper over stupidity. Hell, your pictures are damning evidence of the failure of your prescription. Look how much worse the damage done is under this farcical and cynical bullshit.

It doesn't matter how bad anything is when not only is the "cure" worse the disease but also mutates the disease into far worse than it ever was alone.

Let's recall what the problem is and how it is now after tons and tons of "cure". You tell me how it was worse than it is now or how more of the same is going to fix it all.

Please.

I'm definitely pro-legalization on this stuff especially. Decriminalization leaves all the most dangerous parts in play and leaves open the innocent instead of mitigating and limiting harm.

Vice laws are foolish no matter the vice. They cannot work other than to limit the harm to those involved and to make sure those involved are involved of their own volition.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #97)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:42 PM

104. Ken Burns Prohibition Series

Enlightened me about the merits of prohibition. There are none.

But, kids are stupid - I have a teenager - and they try everything because they're...well...stupid. I wouldn't want my kid trying this stuff at a party.

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Response to AldoLeopold (Reply #104)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:15 PM

116. I wouldn't either but legality has no impact on if they will or not other than making it more

dangerous in a more dangerous environment from the both law enforcement and the element with the shit.

That and of course the drug its self is more likely to be dangerous well above and beyond its properties due to the drive cut costs and the squeeze on available ingredients in quantities to meet demand and financial need/want.

Reasonable concern for offspring is no excuse for the active pursuit or even passive acceptance of a costly strategy proven over a span of decades to not only fail to work put consistently exacerbates virtually every concern used to justify it in the first place.

The scope and magnitude of the problem is way worse than when this particular class of drugs became a focus and the only benefit to getting anything out of any anyone's hands is that is a pain in the ass to get sinus medicine for regular folks and cops snooping around their nothing purchase.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 03:15 PM

101. Don't legalize it

But don't punish me at the drug store by making me have a prescription for a sinus medication either.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 05:37 PM

111. i wouldn't "legalize" meth but

i would start treating it like a public health (as opposed to a law enforcement) issue. i would certainly continue to shut down meth labs while offering/requiring rehab (even graduated withdrawal therapy) for users caught with large amounts.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:10 PM

113. I'd advocate "prescriptionizing" meth.

In other words, make it explicitly legal to get heavy-duty stimulants and downers with a doctor's prescription for recreational use, or for addiction management.

In short, I'm for legal injection clinics, where people can get their fix in a safe way, using pharmaceutical grade drugs, under medical supervision, with no risk of arrest or harassment when you do it there.

That would do much more to reduce the Faces of Meth pictures than "BAN EVERYTHING!"

If it was legal, do you think these people would be doing meth? They'd be doing a relatively potent, but much safer stimulant, that doesn't have Drano and gasoline in it.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:13 PM

114. Legalization of meth should not be equated with endorsing the use of meth

As long as you are stuck in that mindset (as you must be, otherwise your graphic photos don't have much of a point) we can't really have a meaningful discussion.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:23 PM

118. Many end-stage alcoholics look just as bad as these methheads. nt.

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 06:40 PM

121. Meaningless grandstanding. n/t

 

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Response to Archae (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #125)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 07:27 PM

127. Welcome to DU. Are you asking whether or not there should be any laws, to live in a "free society"?

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Response to Archae (Original post)

Thu Nov 21, 2013, 07:03 PM

126. About ten years ago

our local news ran a piece called The Face of Meth.

In that particular case, they showed a guy who had tried to kill himself with a shotgun to the chin but had survived.

They claimed he did that because of meth, but either way it was the Face-of-attempted-suicide-by-shotgun.

I wouldn't use meth and I wouldn't want anyone else to either, but I don't trust "Face of Meth" warnings because I've seen the media blatantly lie about it.

At least a couple of those pictured people didn't get that way strictly because of the side effects of the drug, I'm pretty sure.

Once again: Wouldn't take it; wouldn't want anyone else to either.

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