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Sat Dec 8, 2012, 08:48 PM

More climate talks, more inaction

Talks fail to meet pace of climate change - Greenpeace
Saturday, 08 December 2012 11:50 Greenpeace


Doha, December 8, 2012 - Greenpeace condemned politicians today following the failure of the UN Climate talks in Doha. While they agreed to a second commitment period of the Kyoto Protocol, it was judged so full of loopholes as to have little or no effect on carbon emissions

Kumi Naidoo, Executive Director of Greenpeace International, made the following statement:

“Today we ask the politicians in Doha: Which planet are you on? Clearly not the planet where people are dying from storms, floods and droughts. Nor the planet where renewable energy is growing rapidly and increasing constraints are being placed on the use of dirty fuels such as coal. The talks in Doha were always going to be a modest affair, but they failed to live up to even the historically low expectations.”

“Where is the urgency? The pace of progress is glacial. The inability of governments to find common ground to combat a common threat is inexplicable and unacceptable. It appears governments are putting national short term interest ahead of long term global survival.” ..........................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.guatemala-times.com/news/world/3501-talks-fail-to-meet-pace-of-climate-change-greenpeace-.html



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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply More climate talks, more inaction (Original post)
marmar Dec 2012 OP
Mel Content Dec 2012 #1
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #2
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #4
Mel Content Dec 2012 #5
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #9
Mel Content Dec 2012 #12
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #21
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #11
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #17
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #32
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #3
Mel Content Dec 2012 #6
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #7
Mel Content Dec 2012 #13
LineLineLineLineLineLineReply ?
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #15
Mel Content Dec 2012 #16
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #27
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #18
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #28
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #33
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #34
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #8
Mel Content Dec 2012 #14
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #22
Mel Content Dec 2012 #23
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #24
Agony Dec 2012 #10
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #19
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #25
FarCenter Dec 2012 #20
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #26
FarCenter Dec 2012 #30
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #31
RepublicansRZombies Dec 2012 #29
AverageJoe90 Dec 2012 #35
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #36

Response to marmar (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 08:54 PM

1. eat, drink, and be merry...

 

for we are truly FUCKED as a species.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:08 PM

2. Not exactly helpful, dont'cha think?

I know, I know. It seems wildly optimistic to some on here to think that we are anything but fucked. But my view is: We're going to have to face some tough challenges ahead, but we are far from fucked; It's going to take a lot more than global warming to wipe us out altogether. And this is a pretty darn realistic view on things.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:18 PM

4. With enough tinkers, crafters, makers, and coffee

 

Global Warming ceases to be a problem.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:53 PM

9. Nice to see you went straight to Malcolm Light's website.

I'd be laughing my ass off right now if this wasn't such a serious roadblock to getting things done. And hell, the mass media hardly ever gets it right, either: even now(to a somewhat lesser point than a decade ago, but still!),they either blow it off, or, every once in a while they'll put out sensationalist B.S., which is often then jumped on by the deniers so they can have an excuse to say "See, globul warming iz a hoacks! Hyuck-hyuck, herp-derp!".......and yet, the only time I can recall real discussion about the problem was last month after Sandy came thru.

Oh, and Light's piece was debunked, btw:

http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_comments/commentators/other_comments/1487008/a_student_writesglobal_extinction_within_one_lifetime.html

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:59 PM

12. malcolm light...?

 

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:32 PM

21. What?

OK, I don't know if he actually owns the group but he's certainly its most prominent spokesperson at this point.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:57 PM

11. The underlying inability to act in the interest of self preservation is a concern

The hand to mouth thinking patterns and lack of vision are also vexing.

Not only is the problem daunting (as you sort of admit with the "It's going to take a lot more than global warming to wipe us out altogether." throw away line) but why we cannot deal with the problem is a far greater worry for long term viability and evolution of our species.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:38 PM

17. Well......

I'm certainly not willing to write us off completely, as a few have, but there is indeed the possibility of serious viability issues of modern civilization as we've come to know it in the long term, if things don't get solved soon enough, that much is true.

We will be moving on at some point, but the question is, will it be relatively bearable, or will it be more painful in the long run? Either is possible, but let us hope for, and work towards, the latter.....

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:52 AM

32. I think the key here, strange though it is to me, is that there are a number of people that just

 

don't LIKE the idea of modern civilization. I consider them faux-romantic idiots, but that's me.

With things like that Algae powered lamp that eats CO2, better public transportation, better cars (hybrid, bio-fuel, electric, and hydrogen), and more solar/wind power...

We can beat Global Warming.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:16 PM

3. Yeah unless we make big changes fast, yes we could be fucked.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:21 PM

6. and there's no reason to believe that those changes are going to be made in time- or at all.

 

we're only human, after all.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:27 PM

7. ok so let's now get organized and force government and industry to change.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:01 PM

13. ahhh...the idealism of youth.

 

unfortunately, reality is a cold hard bitch.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:18 PM

15. ?

The way I see it there are 3 options.

1) Be politically active hoping to get governments and industry to change.

2) Be a survivalist, learn how to do farming stuff. Maybe get some guns.

3) Do nothing. Get on the internet and mock people who want to try to change things.

Or some combination of 1 and 2 is also possible.

I am definitely in group number (1).

But I have no idea where you are coming from or what you suggest.


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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:22 PM

16. you seem to be in group three at the moment.

 

(this IS the internet, isn't it...?)

I spent a number of years working for change- but not much of substance ever does.

you'll see.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:11 AM

27. Okay...

 

I'll be leading the technocratic, earth-saving, anti-terror guerilla cell.

Each month, from a different location, we release a few more CO2 eating balloons...

Judo against Malthus!

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:41 PM

18. Most of the people on here really involved with this.....

Seem to be in group 1. I, personally, lean towards that, but I think there should be a fourth option: 4.)You do want to make a difference, but you aren't sure what to do and/or how to do it.

But then, of course, we've got our number 3s, too.....

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:52 PM

33. Wow, Bob, that's awesome!

Thanks for posting that. Very cool technology, and might indeed revolutionize lighting as we know it.....and it helps suck out excess Co2! =)

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:01 PM

34. My wife found that one, we watched it, and I had to share it!

 

If my wife and I set up four of those lights, we'd have a carbon footprint of -2 tons.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:50 PM

8. Some of us are working on it, Mel Content...

 

Also, relying on the federal government, which takes cash form the oil and coal companies, to regulate those same industiries, seems silly.

Better to stop using the products of those companies, and work via local linked affinity groups to ameliorate the problem.

locally produced power
locally produced carbon grabbing
pay via time-share/barter/alt-currency exchange

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:06 PM

14. do you drive a car?

 

or have you given it up yet?

do you use electric lights after dark?

multiply that all by 300 million people in the u.s.
and then add india and china.

carbon emissions aren't even close to leveling off, let alone decreasing.

the one thing i'm glad about is that we chose to remain childless- i don't have to worry about the world my children would have inherited.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:07 AM

22. My carbon footprint is a shade under 2 tons

 

which happens to be the recommended target number via the UN commission.

As soon as I can build a more robust micro-grid*, I'll have that at zero.

A few friends and I are working out the last details to build a form of Von Neuman machines that will "eat" excess CO2 and Methane (both known as GWG), and produce more Von Neuman machines. Another idea is to build a "whale" that "eats" the weak carbonic acid found in some seawater. Together, These ought to fix things within 60 years. Another idea is to build rafts that use Kudzu to use up the excess GWG. All three of these together ought to stop all Global Warming effects within 40 years.

And that assumes that all of the power companies continue to use tar sand oil and coal, and that Americans stick to a fleet average of 15-20 mpg.

It's not in me to just up and quit on Western Civilization. I refuse to live like a savage/barbarian/Mad-Max-wannabe (SBMMW), as long as I've got a brain, a working arm, and a breath in my body. I don't much care if others want to live like SBMMW, but I'll be in the cities, keeping the lights on.

*the hardest part is finding inexpensive true sine inverters. Most of the inverters out there are either square wave, or stepped square wave.

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 10:47 AM

23. Thanks, I REALLY needed that.

 



two things you might want to bone up on- History, and Human Nature.
things just AREN'T going to turn around in time to avert cataclysm.

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Response to Mel Content (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:04 AM

24. I'm glad I could make you laugh...

 

As I said, I'd rather work on a problem, as opposed to just giving up.

I have no respect for those who give up.

So... What is wrong with my ideas?
(Mind you, I've hit a stumbling block in re building cheap control circuitry. For this trick to work, each "critter" has to build control circuitry for other "critters." Even cheap boards like Raspberry Pi get too expensive.)

I look forward to your contributions.

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:55 PM

10. Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

http://geology.com/news/2012/flaring-gas-in-north-dakota.shtml
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=4030
http://fuelfix.com/blog/2012/04/09/gas-flaring-permits-surge-in-texas/

Natural gas flared or otherwise not marketed. The North Dakota Department of Mineral Resources estimated that in May 2011, nearly 36% of the natural gas produced did not make it to market. Most of this gas—29% of the total gas produced—was flared. The remaining natural gas that did not make it to market—7% of total gas produced—is unaccounted for or lost, which means the gas may have been used as lease and plant fuel, or encountered losses during processing or transportation.

The number natural gas flaring permits issued in Texas has more than quadrupled over the past two years, as oil and gas production in the state has boomed, according to the Texas Railroad Commission.

etc...

we are a pathetic joke.

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Response to Agony (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:42 PM

19. The one thing that makes this REALLY problematic.....

Is that we still haven't weaned off of Saudi oil.

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Response to AverageJoe90 (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:06 AM

25. I can't speak for others...

 

But the Makers in New Haven, and a few other groups I've met from other areas, seem to have "shovel-ready" (wrench-ready) plans for when the oil runs out.

After that, it's just a matter of filtering the air...

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:45 PM

20. It is time to start work on how to adapt to climate change

Reducing CO2 emissions is politically infeasible.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:07 AM

26. I'll agree with you on that bit about not relying on the politicans...

 

I'd rather work the problem myself.

I say the GWG as a wasted resource.

"Adapt to Global Warming..." How would that look, in your eyes?

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:33 AM

30. We could start by moving vulnerable infrastructure off barrier islands and out of marshes

Don't rebuild any of structures that Sandy removed and begin to raise and reinforce flood walls with at least a 2 meter rise in protection.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:38 AM

31. I'd have gone with a min of 4 meter, but I'm paranoid...

 

How about we push for this:

Instead of allowing houses to be built on the beach, we go for mass-produced "cabanas"...
Said "cabanas" can be linked together into water-fillable storm walls.

Mind you, I wince at the complete waste of un-tapped energy those storms represent...

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:29 AM

29. We Can End Global Warming by Rejecting all Products from Countries w/no Environmental Standards

 

I wish Greenpeace would focus on the free trade agreements. It doesn't matter what an individual country does if everyone keeps buying cheaper products from countries with no environmental standards.

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Response to RepublicansRZombies (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:24 PM

35. Good point there. n/t

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 09:29 PM

36. I am not surprised. I hope I can continue to take this growing heat the years I have left to live.nt

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