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Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:17 PM

"Krugman, Klein: Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly"

Krugman, Klein: Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly

by Gaius Publius at Americablog

http://americablog.com/2012/12/medicare-eligibility-age-raise-grand-bargain-fiscal-cliff.html

"SNIP..............................................


Ezra Klein says that the shape of a fiscal cliff deal is clear: only a 37 percent rate on top incomes, and a rise in the Medicare eligibility age.

Im going to cross my fingers and hope that this is just a case of creeping Broderism, that its a VSP fantasy about how were going to resolve this in a bipartisan way. Because if Obama really does make this deal, there will be hell to pay.




............................................SNIP"

68 replies, 5169 views

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Reply "Krugman, Klein: Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly" (Original post)
applegrove Dec 2012 OP
byeya Dec 2012 #1
pnwmom Dec 2012 #56
Cleita Dec 2012 #2
former-republican Dec 2012 #6
virgogal Dec 2012 #33
bvar22 Dec 2012 #61
former-republican Dec 2012 #3
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #26
SammyWinstonJack Dec 2012 #45
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #50
Jakes Progress Dec 2012 #41
senseandsensibility Dec 2012 #4
newfie11 Dec 2012 #12
AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #66
crazyjoe Dec 2012 #5
former-republican Dec 2012 #10
Vincardog Dec 2012 #7
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #8
ProSense Dec 2012 #9
enlightenment Dec 2012 #13
ProSense Dec 2012 #15
brentspeak Dec 2012 #20
ProSense Dec 2012 #22
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #27
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #49
Barack_America Dec 2012 #24
markpkessinger Dec 2012 #16
ProSense Dec 2012 #19
rudycantfail Dec 2012 #38
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #63
Cha Dec 2012 #37
Jakes Progress Dec 2012 #42
enlightenment Dec 2012 #11
pnwmom Dec 2012 #57
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #14
Samantha Dec 2012 #36
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #17
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #18
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #21
rudycantfail Dec 2012 #39
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #23
Oilwellian Dec 2012 #25
woo me with science Dec 2012 #30
KoKo Dec 2012 #44
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #65
Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #28
dembotoz Dec 2012 #32
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #29
decayincl Dec 2012 #58
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #62
Earth_First Dec 2012 #31
Swede Atlanta Dec 2012 #34
Marr Dec 2012 #35
rudycantfail Dec 2012 #40
brokechris Dec 2012 #43
jpak Dec 2012 #46
janx Dec 2012 #47
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #52
sendero Dec 2012 #48
doc03 Dec 2012 #51
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #53
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #54
virtualobserver Dec 2012 #55
libdem4life Dec 2012 #59
shrdlu Dec 2012 #60
creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #64
AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #67
kentuck Dec 2012 #68

Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:21 PM

1. I hope that this is only a way to put pressure on Pres Obama and the Democrats and not a

 

product of inside information.

It would be intolerable if true.

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Response to byeya (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:39 PM

56. Krugman's not reporting this. He's only repeating Klein's claims. n/t

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:27 PM

2. If they do they are going to see the Occupy movement erupt everywhere and on steroids.

Wait and see.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:35 PM

6. Occupy movement?

 

"hell " most of the party is going to turn their backs to him.

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Response to former-republican (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:08 PM

33. And why would he care? He's in for 4 more years.

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Response to virgogal (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:43 AM

61. Abd the Republicans are scheduled to retake the White House in 2016 anyway...

... under the Power Sharing Agreement of 1992.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:33 PM

3. I seriously can't understand why the President would do this?

 

Why does he think he had so much support in this election?

This was one of the key issues.
Protect Social Security and Medicare.

What is he thinking.......

I really hope he doesn't do this.

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Response to former-republican (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:10 PM

26. because he believes and wants the same thing as the republicans

but politically, he must ease the masses into accepting it. Sorry, but actions will always speak louder than words. If he goes through with this as stated, it's because he wanted it. Don't believe the garbage about negotiating.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:50 PM

45. Wants it, pushes for it and WILL have it.



I want to know what his and his family's shared sacrifice will be?

As if!

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Response to SammyWinstonJack (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:26 PM

50. same thing his avid well off poster do

nothing

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Response to former-republican (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:54 PM

41. I think we have to face it.

Our president is a reagan-democrat.

Not when he campaigns of course. But if he capitulates once again, it isn't really capitulation. It will be because what he gets is what he wants. We can't just blame his advisors (most are centrists and corporatists) any more. He's had time to get rid of them. We can't blame his inexperience. He's had time to learn.

This time tells us who he is and what he stands (or doesn't stand for).

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:35 PM

4. This is all starting to sound painfully

familiar.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:41 PM

12. Yes it is

I hope it doesn't happen.

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Response to senseandsensibility (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:16 AM

66. Unfortunately you are correct

It looks like the Republicans will win again.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:35 PM

5. it's naive to think a politician will do after the election what he

 

said he would do before the election.

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Response to crazyjoe (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:38 PM

10. Then he deserves no support on anything anymore

 

I still don't think he's going to turn on the people that busted their butts to reelect him.

I don't want to believe it

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:36 PM

7. If this is true, it is time to admit that there can be no relief using the electoral process.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:36 PM

8. Is it not amazing we vote people but we still have no idea where they stand on these

important issues?

Candidates should have to take a position on that before we vote for them.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:38 PM

9. Krugman said no such thing:

(that is he didn't claim "Dems will cave on Medicare)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021943877

And the OP is exactly as the first comment at the link suggests: "A lot of people are flapping around trying to make it look 'inevitable.'"

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Response to ProSense (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:45 PM

13. Trying reading the article.

The headline is as the OP wrote it - the text is as it was copied.

Krugman was remarking on what Klein said.

As for the rest - yes, we all know that you'd wait for the house to burn down before you admitted there was a fire, but this is a discussion board. Sometimes people will discuss things that haven't happened yet.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:49 PM

15. I read the fucking article.

OP title: "Krugman, Klein: Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly"

Krugman said no such thing.

The OP title doesn't say:

Krugman: Klein says Dems will cave on Medicare, raise age 2 years, raise taxes only slightly

Even that would be inaccurate because it pushes the false claim Klein makes.

It's a shitty title, a shitty claim, and deserves to be slapped down.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:28 PM

20. For the record

will you state, categorically, that Obama will absolutely not raise the Medicare eligibility age?

The ball is in your court.

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Response to brentspeak (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:34 PM

22. "For the record"

will you state, categorically, that Obama will absolutely not raise the Medicare eligibility age?

The ball is in your court.

How the fuck would I know what Obama is going to do?

But OK, here's the statement you want: Obama will absolutely not raise the Medicare eligibility age.

Now what?

Does that mean, the "ball is in your court"?

Does that mean we can all go home because I said that?

Ridiculous.

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Response to brentspeak (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:13 PM

27. Folks like you have been making this prediction

For about 3 years or more.

It has not happened, won't happen now, and in 4-6 months, it will be predicted again.

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Response to brentspeak (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:58 PM

49. Irrelevant riposte.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:38 PM

24. "Krugman, quotes Klein, who says...." just didn't have the same ring to it.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:52 PM

16. Split hairs much?

Krugman is obviously concerned that Klein's analysis may be correct, or else who wouldn't have mentioned it, pointing out that "there will be hell to pay" if the President makes such a deals. Using the phrase, "Dems will cave on Medicare" in a headline is a mere paraphrase of what Krugman is saying. You're grasping at straws trying to defend the indefensible.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:09 PM

19. It seems that people

love to repeat baseless claims. Krugman's point

"Using the phrase, 'Dems will cave on Medicare; in a headline is a mere paraphrase of what Krugman is saying."

No he isn't. Krugman's point is not that "Dem will cave,' it's that the proposal is idiotic.

Im going to cross my fingers and hope that this is just a case of creeping Broderism, that its a VSP fantasy about how were going to resolve this in a bipartisan way. Because if Obama really does make this deal, there will be hell to pay...Second, why on earth would Obama be selling Medicare away to raise top tax rates when he gets a big rate rise on January 1 just by doing nothing? And no, vague promises about closing loopholes wont do it...So this looks crazy to me; it looks like a deal that makes no sense either substantively or in terms of the actual bargaining strength of the parties.

That's his point.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:28 AM

38. The proposal certainly is idiotic

 

as I'm sure you and every thinking person would agree. But Krugman's point isn't that it's so idiotic that Obama won't do it. Krugman's point is that it's idiotic but Obama may do it anyway and that it doesn't make sense. When Krugman says,

"Im going to cross my fingers and hope that this is just a case..."

clearly he's not sold that Obama won't do it. Given Obama's track record, can you blame him?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:59 AM

63. But he feels he has to 'cross his fingers' so he doesn't sound too certain does he?

Nor should anyone be surprised since Obama never made a clear statement, such as those made by eg, Bernie Sanders, regarding Medicare. Airc whenever he was asked about Social Programs he was evasive when it came to Medicare. Frankly I think the deal was already made which is why Axelrod stated, incredibly btw, that 'we will not be talking about SS during the election'. What utter arrogance.

And they've already cut SS by cutting in half the Cost of Living increase for next year. Why was that necessary? The SS fund has more than enough money in it to keep the 3% rate. This is how they do it, a little bit at a time, under the radar, hoping no one will notice.

So they've taken away from the elderly, the disabled and children. Now what are they going to take from the rich? Making them pay some taxes for a change? Well that should have happened at least two years ago. We remember what happened with that also, during the Lame Duck Congress. They kept Gays in the Military on hold to use as an excuse for extending the Bush Tax Cuts and they thought we didn't notice.

Well those days when we were all blinded by fear of the Republicans that we missed so much that was going on in our own party, are gone. The people ARE noticing, every little deception.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:10 AM

37. Thanks for bringing some enlightenment to the

thread, ProSense.

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Response to Cha (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:56 PM

42. Now that's funny.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:39 PM

11. I'm with Krugman - fingers crossed that this is

just talk.

Otherwise, they need to change the definition of "compromise" to "see: capitulation".

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:40 PM

57. The headline distorted this, since Krugman, as you say,

isn't reporting that this is true -- just that he hopes it's not true.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:47 PM

14. If that happens, I will have to leave DemocraticUnderground

 

I would no longer be able to support the Democratic Party if they cave on Medicare age.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:01 AM

36. I don't think you have to be a Democrat to post here, just a progressive

and I have seen some openly moderate Republicans post here, not lately, but it has happened. I believe one cannot belong to another party and support a candidate from that party at this site. DU only supports Dems for office.

I probably didn't phrase this too well, but check out the rules. I think you could become an Independent and still belong.

Sam

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:02 PM

17. No gets us 39% on the wealthy. This is an insult to all working Americans.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:08 PM

18. not gonna happen

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:33 PM

21. I know it isn't your headline, but it is misleading and you should change it

Ameriblog fucked up here. The headline implies that Krugman is one of two voices making that prediction. He is not. Krugman linked to the Ezra Klein post unde the headline: "I Hope This Isnt True"


Again, Paul Krugman has not in any way predicted that this will be the deal.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:31 AM

39. Right

 

Krugman thinks the proposal is idiotic and hopes Obama won't do it but isn't convinced he won't.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:36 PM

23. If "hell to pay" means "media roundly applauds bipartisan compromise",

then that is probably an accurate prediction.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:06 PM

25. There are a LOT of Democrats, on record, calling for the same thing

I am forever enshrining them altogether in one video, for all to see. The Third Way have been very busy bees.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:26 PM

30. Thank you for your excellent work in exposing the sellouts and infiltrators

within our party.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:43 PM

44. Thanks..! n/t

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:13 AM

65. You are absolutely right. The Third Way has the Big Lie posted on their website. They

are claiming that SS and Medicare DID help cause the Deficit. Are THEY stupid or do they think WE are stupid? To tell that lie outright at this point when the public knows so much more than they ever did about this, is simply stunning.

Check it out, the lie, even about the numbers. For the record, SS can pay out all of its obligations 100% for the next 75 years even if the economy remains bad, which is unlikely, and even if it takes in less than it pays out. Because they prepared for the boomers. But see how they muddle the facts, just like Republicans. In fact if I did not know who they were, I would think I was reading from a Republican Think Tank.


http://content.thirdway.org/publications/609/Third_Way_Memo_-_Six_Facts_about_a_Grand_Bargain.pdf

With the D after their names, they sound more convincing. Thanks to people like Bernie Sanders their deceptions are obvious though.

Would love to see that video when you are finished.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:14 PM

28. Peeps, if dis comes down like da Krugmeister says,

I tink the Demmycrats & I may be headed for a breakup in a 45-year relationship.

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Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:47 PM

32. dat be the truth-dat is

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:17 PM

29. I'll be leaving the Democratic Party for good if a deal to raise Medicare eligibility age is

 

jammed down our throats to further the interests of the global 1%.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:41 PM

58. If this goes down

we will be out in force. Some of us can still walk; some use canes or walkers; others are in wheelchairs. But, we will make a lot of noise. The least we can do to register our protest would be to un-register as Democrats. 45 years for me too. Dems give in on this and the party has lost its soul and several coming elections. Defeat from the jaws of Victory has been the Democratic battlecry for too long.

If we don't end this crap now, it won't get better in this geezers lifetime. Make yourself heard NOW.

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Response to decayincl (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:53 AM

62. While my threat\ultimatum still stands as posted, after I posted it, I realized

 

that the OP was re-publishing an incredibly misleading and inflammatory headline.

To wit, only Ezra Klein said he had 'heard' that raising the Medicare eligibility age would be part of a deal. Krugman did not 'hear' that rumor, but only repeated what Klein had said. Whether what Klein claims to have 'heard' has any credibility is, of course, central to the issue. I now believe that Klein was hearing third-way douchebags talking but not hearing anything official out of the Obama administration.

That said, I simply cannot believe that Obama & Co., now having Boner, McChinless and their ilk on the mat with feet firmly on their necks, would seize defeat from the jaws of victory, in the process fucking over the entirety of the Democratic base.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:34 PM

31. ...then we'll be sold a bill of goods by fellow DU Democrats on why this compromise was necessary

in order to have greater leverage on the single payer issue later in the term.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:45 PM

34. If they do...bye-bye now...

 

I will not support a Rethuglikkkan but I will never contribute another penny to any Democrat nor vote for any Democrat. They will be dead to me.

I hope we find a way to communicate this to them because for me it is GAME OVER.

I didn't give much...about $750.00 to Democrats this time around and spent about 20 hours doing phone calls and other activities but if they cave they get ZERO, ZERO, ZERO.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:57 PM

35. Bookmarking.

This sounds all to believable, and quite in line with Obama's past maneuvering.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:44 PM

40. Interesting

 

account of how the process is taking shape.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:57 PM

43. how reliable is this? nt

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:21 PM

46. Dumb second-hand speculation and douchebaggery

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:30 PM

47. Yes. It is all heavy speculation.

A misleading headline, for starters, and then Americablog quotes Krugman, who addresses speculation by Ezra Klein, who quotes Jonathan Chait.

These pundits are making my head spin!

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Response to jpak (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:01 PM

52. Since you're so certain that this not going to be what happens, how about backing it up with

 

something significant?

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:39 PM

48. I hope he's wrong..

.. but looking at Obama's history doesn't help me hope too much.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:56 PM

51. Even if we go back to the full tax rate on the rich they

will still be paying less tax than under Clinton. They would still get the tax break on their income under $250,000. If Obama agrees to raise the age on Medicare the Democrats will own it. Obama made the $716 billion cut in Medicare the Republicans wanted and they used it to win take the House in 2010. GHW Bush tried to pass NAFTA and failed then Clinton was able to get enough Democrat votes to get it passed. Now Clinton owns NAFTA, when will Democrats ever learn you can't make a deal with these scum bags.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:05 PM

53. I think you are assuming that the parties want different things. n/t

 

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:31 PM

54. Krugman did not say they WILL cave

He said he is afraid they will cave. The Americablog headline is misleading.

Yes, we need to mobilize - this is a rally call. But you are reporting it as if it is a done deal. All we have is Ezra Klein speculating - not even citing anonymous White House sources.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:31 PM

55. Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!

Obama is holding all of the cards.....and the Republicans are on the verge of self destruction.

Obama didn't work his ass off for two years to get re-elected in order to cave.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:50 PM

59. The corporations are buying the Inaugural Coronation along with the next four years.

The piddly little contributions of the unwashed masses just won't cover the tab. That pretty much covers it, in my estimation.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:34 AM

60. Man-up, Mr. President...

...What I sent The White House:

Please tell me the president is not contemplating raising the eligibility age for medicare. To do so would be a stunning betrayal of the trust placed in him by his reelection. If he caves on a fundamental issue of his party, then he can expect even stronger GOP resistance for the duration of his term. The voters have saved him from being a one-term president. He must save himself from becoming a lame-term president. He should man-up and dance with who brung him.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:02 AM

64. Last time Obama entertained the idea

it was to take place over 40 years. It wasn't as drastic as it sounded.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 04:50 AM

67. Ummmmm.....

Republicans should be begging Obama to not raise the margin tax rates to 91% on the millions they made like Eisenhower did back when the whole concept of sociopathic-criminal plutocracy was a structural impossibility in America. Instead, were being prepared for Democrats trading away pieces of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in return for for what? The temporary Bush tax cuts that are due to expire on December 31 anyway?

Ugh

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 08:02 AM

68. Bingo!

That seems to be the case. It's all a kabuki to make Bush taxcuts permanent.

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