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Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:04 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (devilgrrl) on Sat Aug 17, 2013, 10:28 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
devilgrrl Dec 2012 OP
Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #1
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 #35
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #55
trof Dec 2012 #2
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #3
randome Dec 2012 #10
SidDithers Dec 2012 #11
Chan790 Dec 2012 #43
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #14
randome Dec 2012 #17
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #23
randome Dec 2012 #26
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #28
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #41
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #47
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #46
99Forever Dec 2012 #52
slackmaster Dec 2012 #4
krhines Dec 2012 #59
Scuba Dec 2012 #5
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #8
woo me with science Dec 2012 #39
woo me with science Dec 2012 #40
craigmatic Dec 2012 #6
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #9
craigmatic Dec 2012 #15
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #19
srican69 Dec 2012 #7
banned from Kos Dec 2012 #12
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #16
srican69 Dec 2012 #18
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #20
banned from Kos Dec 2012 #24
99Forever Dec 2012 #53
srican69 Dec 2012 #27
randome Dec 2012 #29
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #30
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #33
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #37
annabanana Dec 2012 #54
randome Dec 2012 #22
Chan790 Dec 2012 #48
Chan790 Dec 2012 #45
moondust Dec 2012 #13
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #50
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #21
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #25
banned from Kos Dec 2012 #31
MessiahRp Dec 2012 #42
Chan790 Dec 2012 #49
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #32
PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #34
woo me with science Dec 2012 #36
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #38
HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #44
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #51
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #56
standingtall Dec 2012 #57
Rex Dec 2012 #58

Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:06 PM

1. A Modest Proposal....

Soylent Green

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:51 PM

35. But then, whom would the elite have to look down on? nt

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:08 PM

55. More close to the truth than many people realize.

Many years ago, Frances Fox Piven pointed out why "the poor" were needed, esp. by the rich.

Johnson's "war on Poverty" provided millions of dollars over the years to a giant multi-layered web of
Federal and state agencies, people to staff them, people to study the poor, people to staff the city and local agencies to provide vouchers, services to "the poor" and a fair amount of money actually got to "the poor" in form of AFDC
(welfare) checks and food stamps..( back then food stamps actually had some value).

Oh,yeah, let's not forget the system of universities and colleges which developed programs for Social Work and other
"poverty" related programs, turning out graduates who found work in the multi layers of the system.

By creating an organized system of "fighting poverty", the country could feel good about "taking care of the poor" while at same time punitive policies kept the poor in their place, where they served as object lessons to those class layers above them. And all that money spent, by the states and the Feds, supported a lot of middle class families whose income depended on the bureaucracy of the Poverty program.

The more postiive side of the above was that there WAS a social safety net for people who needed it.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:09 PM

2. Did you just get a new crate of hand grenades?

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Response to trof (Reply #2)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:18 PM

10. Then why are you here?

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Response to randome (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:18 PM

11. That's the $64,000 question, isn't it...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:10 AM

43. Because by its ToS and founding positions, it's explicitly supposed to be.

The real $64,000 question is:

"Since it's supposed to be, why are Skinner, EarlG and elad so utterly fucking delinquent in PPRing those people who work against it by promoting radical centrism and right-wing values which make being a Democrat (and by extension, all of the left-blogosphere including DU) suck by being no longer Democratic, progressive or liberal?"


Just because one chooses to not want to be a thought-leader does not mean one who is by position, acclaim or prestige has any say in the matter. (To put that another way, much like Rush Limbaugh is an arbiter of RW orthodoxy (and chooses to be), Skinner is such a liberal arbiter by virtue of position whether he wants to be or not.) With all apologies, it's necessary in explaining this concept to borrow from former US ambassador to the Vatican and RW legal theorist, Mary Ann Glendon: "refusing to take a moral position is a moral stand in itself." Not tombstoning people whose opinions are anti-liberal, anti-progressive and/or pro-third-way is to acquiesce to the rightward drift of the Democratic Party because DU is a place where people who are not DUers look to, to tell them what liberalism and the Democratic Party stands for...and Skinner cannot escape that by merely saying he wants to promote a diversity of opinions...it does factually whether he wants it to or not, require a modicum of curation to expel those POVs which he finds not merely abhorrent but anti-Democratic and illiberal.

Not everybody who needs to be banned is a troll, some are just vocally not really Democrats (regardless of whether they think they are) or in-large hold opinions that make them unfit to speak for Democratic values. Being a Democrat requires more than checking the right box on your voter registration. Mark me as pro-litmus-test but make no mistake that I demand to be marked as believing in the existence of core inviolate Democratic values. Those that promote anathema to those values should be muted here.

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Response to randome (Reply #10)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:22 PM

17. I'm here to debate and share and learn.

I think you might want to check your blood sugar level.

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Response to randome (Reply #17)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:34 PM

26. I'll make one last...meh...to get you to step away from the ledge.

Where have I ever advocated for trickle-down economics or tax cuts for billionaires?

Don't worry, it's a rhetorical question.

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Response to randome (Reply #26)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:33 AM

41. Jury results.

Automated Message
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

At Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:21 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Are you saying that this is now a conservative site?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1943904

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Accusing a fellow DUer to be a conservative, and entire thread is based on useless flamebait and whining about DU.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:31 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I read a valid question, NOT an accusation. But then again, I'm just a dumb bleeding heart, bed-wetting liberal.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If you have a problem with the thread being whining, alert to Host to lock as should be in Meta. If you have a problem with the basis being "useless flamebait", alert on the OP. To alert on this post is silly. It is asking questions, not accusing you of anything. Quit the frivilous alerts.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Devilgrrl attacked a fellow DUer and has been trashing DU all day. I am happy to hide this post.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's an aggressive question, sure. It's a challenge, sure. But it doesn't assume the answer or insult the above DUer for anything besides the potential for holding a different political opinion.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:24 AM

47. jesus. i can see about 5 posts on this thread that deserve alerts way more than that.

 

it rather confirms the theory that there are some people alerting on others constantly, hoping to run up their 'hidden post' counts and get them tossed.

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:18 AM

46. +100

 

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:42 AM

52. You got that right. n/t

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:13 PM

4. WWTDKS?

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 02:03 PM

59. +1

This is the first thing I thought of too.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:13 PM

5. Isn't that what they're trying to do?

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Response to Scuba (Reply #5)


Response to Scuba (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:01 PM

39. It's what they have already done and continue to do.

Austerity kills. Thieving from the poor to give to the rich kills.

This is not just about Medicare and Social Security, although the murders will be multiplied with additional attacks to these safety nets.

Medicare and Social Security were already used as hostages to get an austerity deal. We hear a lot of despicable propaganda trying to convince us that we will have been victorious if only these particular cuts are spared. What utter hogwash. We have already been sold out to right-wing lies about what is wrong with our economy and what is necessary to fix it. We get trillions slashed from the budget no matter what. We get murderous austerity, more hungry, homeless, desperate, and dying, more suicides, no matter what.


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Response to woo me with science (Reply #39)


Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:14 PM

6. It wouldn't becase rich people hae no skills and are lazy as fuck.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #6)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:21 PM

15. Rich people didn't build shit. Let's put kidding aside slaves built America.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #15)


Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:15 PM

7. the world will be a better place for whom?

Does the existance of poor people bother you ?

If so please fuck yourselves..

I know poor people who love their kids and dream of a better days for their kids..and work their butts off for it...and still remain very poor


They may be poor..but they know what love is...and understanding that...is to be a liberal

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:19 PM

12. stupid poll deserves stupid vote

 

that is all.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #12)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:23 PM

18. you are either

Very young and don't know what you are taking about...or a sociopath who might become a serial killer..

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Response to srican69 (Reply #18)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:32 PM

24. You don't understand that politics is the art of the possible

 

It is all about coalition building, teamwork, pulling together fractious elements, and uniting people with different goals.

You care about poor people most. Fine.

I care about climate change, regulations that end corporate abuse, personal liberties, civil liberties, tax fairness, labor unions and so on.

Maybe we only have one thing in common -- defeating Republicans. That is good enough if only 51% of us share that goal.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:46 AM

53. The horseshit "art of the possible" meme..

.. was a fucking lie and shitty excuse the first time it was said and hasn't gotten any better with time.

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:35 PM

27. pleeeese

F ..your selves


why would you even think of such a thing???


I know a good shrink...and I think you might need one.

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Response to srican69 (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:38 PM

29. Some context may be needed.

'Tombstoned' means kicked off DU.

And it seems to me that she wants to get herself tombstoned.

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Response to srican69 (Reply #27)


Response to srican69 (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:39 PM

33. I can understand the upset this poll can cause a person

I was ready to hit the alert at first site! But then I saw it was devilgrrl that did it and if you saw they other post. devilgrrl has a habit of posting dark, sometimes very disheartening post. It is just her wat to point out something she is upset about.

For me, it is very painful. The topic hurts very much due to having people come up to me when I was living on the street and mockingly ask me to "Off" myself because I was making them sick. Or when they threw trash at me and yelled get a job _____!

But this is devilgrrl way of venting. Please don't take it personal!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #33)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:47 AM

54. I really wonder why you continue to post

somewhere that you hold in such contempt.

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Response to srican69 (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:28 PM

22. Welcome to DU. Please excuse the rash one.

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Response to randome (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:29 AM

48. No, don't excuse the rash one. She's right all around. n/t

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Response to srican69 (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:18 AM

45. I can vouch for her being neither.

devilgrrl, like I, is merely a liberal who feels that DU and the Democratic party should be unwelcoming to anti-liberals...note I did not say moderates or centrists; I said people who are actively anti-liberal & anti-progressive working to recast the party as radically-centrist, center-right or third-way.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:20 PM

13. 1%: Flood the country with guns and they'll kill each other!

Problem solved! Our hands are clean!

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Response to moondust (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:37 AM

50. and drugs, which my neighborhood is currently being flooded with. the uptick is very obvious, & it

 

goes with the uptick in unemployment.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:26 PM

21. Ouch.

this hurts.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #21)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:40 PM

31. Actually Ayn Rand herself campaigned against Reagan

 

because she was pro-choice.

I'll take her vote any time.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:55 AM

42. Wow.

Just fucking wow. You can keep Ayn Rand. Maybe we should call you Paul Ryan from now on.

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Response to banned from Kos (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:34 AM

49. Wow.

...
...
...
Just "wow". I'm nearly speechless...courting the vote of Ayn Rand or objectivists in general should carry consequences beyond immediate PPRing.

Too bad none exist.

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:46 PM

32. I know you mean it as sarcasm. But it hurts me for a reason.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:47 PM

34. Don't forget the elderly and Baby Boomers who weren't greedheads.

I like your OPs this eve devilgrrl; they are spot on.

Stimulated me to post out some frustrations at DU.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:54 PM

36. That's *exactly* what austerity does.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:00 PM

38. You need one more choice: "No, we need to keep them alive so in

 

watching them suffer we can be convinced of our own righteousness and superiority."

Otherwise, great poll. Not sure I agree with you 100% about the direction DU is going, but I recently got accused of being 'excessively negative' for pointing out that 1 in 5 American children currently lives in poverty.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:16 AM

44. You know who had the right idea? Art Laffer!



&feature=relmfu

My boss and his associates recommended that I watched this. I can't even take five minutes of this debunked nonsense-vomiter preaching to his white rich Repub choir at the City Club, let alone an HOUR of it. A two minute Google search capsizes his crapship straight away.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 11:40 AM

51. Uh, what do you mean, "we", devilgrrl?

You're suggesting mass suicide, unless "we" get "them" to do the killing.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:13 PM

56. That's what wars are for.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:57 PM

57. I see the sarcasm


but if that were to really happen. The remaining classes would just cannibalize themselves through greed, and create an entirely new class of poor people, and the cycle would continue until no one is left.

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Response to devilgrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 12:59 PM

58. Who would do all the work?

You think wealthy people are going to do such things as *gasp* LABOR!?!?! They would probably rather starve then be seen with a shovel.

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