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Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:19 PM

Should Barack Obama's Life Been Destroyed By A Drug Bust?

Obama did drugs as a young guy, and not just pot. Fortunately for him, he managed to avoid arrest and imprisonment. I have no idea why any sensible person thinks the enforcement of federal marijuana laws against the will of certain states deserves one cent or one minute of time.

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2012/12/should-barack-obamas-life-been.html

144 replies, 14882 views

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Reply Should Barack Obama's Life Been Destroyed By A Drug Bust? (Original post)
phantom power Dec 2012 OP
Deep13 Dec 2012 #1
ReRe Dec 2012 #22
frazzled Dec 2012 #2
NoOneMan Dec 2012 #31
Scuba Dec 2012 #55
truebluegreen Dec 2012 #66
lalalu Dec 2012 #3
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #6
lalalu Dec 2012 #10
LineLineLineLineReply k
Go Vols Dec 2012 #11
lalalu Dec 2012 #13
Go Vols Dec 2012 #18
lalalu Dec 2012 #20
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #33
snooper2 Dec 2012 #59
tabasco Dec 2012 #14
lalalu Dec 2012 #17
wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #48
lalalu Dec 2012 #75
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #109
stupidicus Dec 2012 #140
wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #142
tabasco Dec 2012 #62
lalalu Dec 2012 #76
NCTraveler Dec 2012 #117
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #15
lalalu Dec 2012 #19
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #28
lalalu Dec 2012 #77
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #81
lalalu Dec 2012 #82
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #92
stupidicus Dec 2012 #30
lalalu Dec 2012 #78
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #83
lalalu Dec 2012 #84
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #85
lalalu Dec 2012 #91
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #94
lalalu Dec 2012 #96
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #98
lalalu Dec 2012 #101
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #106
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #95
lalalu Dec 2012 #100
morningfog Dec 2012 #103
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #105
lalalu Dec 2012 #107
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #118
morningfog Dec 2012 #125
stupidicus Dec 2012 #139
morningfog Dec 2012 #43
lalalu Dec 2012 #79
morningfog Dec 2012 #102
lalalu Dec 2012 #110
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #113
lalalu Dec 2012 #116
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #121
lalalu Dec 2012 #126
morningfog Dec 2012 #130
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #134
morningfog Dec 2012 #124
neverforget Dec 2012 #129
morningfog Dec 2012 #123
stupidicus Dec 2012 #144
tabasco Dec 2012 #63
lalalu Dec 2012 #80
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #111
lalalu Dec 2012 #115
Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #131
lalalu Dec 2012 #132
morningfog Dec 2012 #42
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #57
lalalu Dec 2012 #86
morningfog Dec 2012 #104
PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #51
morningfog Dec 2012 #128
PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #137
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #53
lalalu Dec 2012 #87
stupidicus Dec 2012 #143
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #56
lalalu Dec 2012 #89
morningfog Dec 2012 #133
Hissyspit Dec 2012 #138
icarusxat Dec 2012 #60
lalalu Dec 2012 #88
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #70
Cayenne Dec 2012 #108
lalalu Dec 2012 #112
Cayenne Dec 2012 #120
morningfog Dec 2012 #127
Nikia Dec 2012 #135
progressoid Dec 2012 #136
Deep13 Dec 2012 #8
Coyotl Dec 2012 #21
Deep13 Dec 2012 #23
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #40
lalalu Dec 2012 #24
LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #9
Bonobo Dec 2012 #41
wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #50
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #54
morningfog Dec 2012 #44
obxhead Dec 2012 #47
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #64
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #71
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #114
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #4
Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #5
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #34
LineReply ,
Go Vols Dec 2012 #7
chille1 Dec 2012 #12
PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #52
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #119
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #16
truebluegreen Dec 2012 #67
underpants Dec 2012 #25
Speck Tater Dec 2012 #26
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #29
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #35
tridim Dec 2012 #27
Upton Dec 2012 #36
tridim Dec 2012 #61
truebluegreen Dec 2012 #68
morningfog Dec 2012 #45
stupidicus Dec 2012 #32
SHRED Dec 2012 #37
TheProgressive Dec 2012 #38
woo me with science Dec 2012 #39
samsingh Dec 2012 #46
PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #49
YOHABLO Dec 2012 #58
PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #65
wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #69
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #72
Canuckistanian Dec 2012 #73
LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #74
Sunlei Dec 2012 #90
treestar Dec 2012 #93
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #122
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #97
GCaplan Dec 2012 #99
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #141

Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:23 PM

1. Yes dammit!

Those who wander beyond the bounds of allowed nonconformity that the hegemonic culture has set for us must never be allowed to represent that hegemony. Not because he is unworthy, but because unauthorized nonconformity is a threat to the white, Christian, capitalist patriarchy and must be punished.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:06 PM

22. Hear! Hear!

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:28 PM

2. I think you have to consider the difference between decriminalization and legalization

Especially when it comes to African American politicians. When Chicago decriminalized small amounts of marijuana last year (instituting fines instead), I was surprised -- but then not so surprised -- to see my Representative, Danny Davis, speak out in favor of that but say that he was at the same time very opposed to legalization. Much of his community has enough problems without everyone sitting around getting stoned on top of it; or to increase the turf wars that are already creating alarming amounts of violence over the drug trade. Legalization, without government licensing and/or regulation, is not going to end that. And I don't think the federal government is quite ready to play that role.

The Feds aren't going to be coming in to raid your average pot smoker in his mom's basement. But they're not going to leave the big-time dealers alone.



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Response to frazzled (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:32 PM

31. I think you have it backwards

 

Decriminalization increases demand by removing risk but leaves the criminal elements in charge of manufacturing & distribution, thus continuing to compete for their share of the growing market. This debate is extensively discussed in the movie The Union, with dealers overwhelmingly in favor of decriminalization but not legalization (where their black market would be underminded).

With decriminalization, you still have your teens and adults going to the local pot and cocaine dealer to get their product (and they might get talked into an upgrade). With legalization, you have adults flashing their IDs to established businesses that only sell regulated drugs.


Legalization, without government licensing and/or regulation, is not going to end that. And I don't think the federal government is quite ready to play that role.

States do not need a nanny government to hold their hands as they regulate alcohol or marijuana. Do you suggest states cede their existing alcohol regulating duties to the federal government?

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:23 PM

55. Bingo. It will take legalization to get crime out of drugs.

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Response to NoOneMan (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:06 AM

66. Hear, Hear!

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:29 PM

3. First of all he experimented and was not some hardcore user or dealer.

 

He also made other choices that made a difference in his life. Choices such as staying in school, not hanging on street corners, and not selling drugs.

There were and are millions of young black people who did not and do not get arrested because they are not some stereotype presented that all young black people go to jail for having a joint. Many who go to jail are there because they have other issues in their lives they and their parents need to deal with.

I am tired of this scenario that all black people go to jail and somehow President Obama is the lone black man who has never been in prison.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:36 PM

6. People do get arrested and go to jail for experimenting with pot

The OP said nothing about race so I don't know why you expressed being tired with a scenario that was not even presented, but it is a fact that blacks are more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than whites are. Certainly many don't get arrested as well, but the ones who do get arrested are treated as criminals even if they did nothing more than have a small baggie in their pocket.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:41 PM

10. Urban myth

 

I know people, including black people, who have smoked weed their entire teen and adult life. Some have even experimented with other drugs.

I have never known a single person who went to jail and had their lives ruined over smoking a joint. Not one and neither do any of you know anyone that has happened to. You just heard the stories and now supposedly everyone in jail is just a misunderstood angel caught smoking a joint. Most people in jail have various problems and smoking weed is just one of them.

I support legalizing but it will not change the fact that most of them will still be back in jail for something else.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:46 PM

11. k

Tyrone Brown (born 1973) is an African-American Texan who, in 1990, was sentenced to a life term in a Texas maximum security prison and was kept incarcerated for 17 years after testing positive once for smoking marijuana while on probation


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Brown

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:50 PM

13. You proved my point.

 

His real offense was robbery. That does not excuse the injustice of his sentencing but he was not arrested and charged for smoking a joint. He was on probation for a more serious crime and I doubt it was his first time robbing someone.

As i stated before they are people who have other issues in their lives. Even if weed was legal I would bet Tyrone would be in jail for something else like robbery or eventually worse.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:01 PM

18. lol

He was on probation for robbery and walking the streets,smoked a joint and got life in prison.

Read it however you wish.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:03 PM

20. He was on probation for robbery, not smoking a joint.

 

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Response to lalalu (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:46 PM

33. At the time of his final arrest, was the arrest truly for a robbery or for smoking a joint?

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:50 PM

59. Patrick is that you?

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:51 PM

14. You are woefully uninformed.

Law enforcement authorities are not the only ones seeking to punish people for smoking a joint. Civilian organizations like employers and schools have instituted extensive drug testing programs to weed out marijuana.


http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform/marijuana-arrests-punishments

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Response to tabasco (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:57 PM

17. First of all the issue was incarceration and

 

it is a myth that people are arrested and have their lives destroyed for smoking a joint. Those arrests are tied to other offenses and are not stand alone offenses. People are tested for various drugs when seeking employment and obviously the tests aren't that great. I know many people who smoke weed and are employed.

There is a valid argument for legalizing weed but this argument that people have been ruined for merely smoking a joint is false.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:36 PM

48. not false!

I was arrested for smoking a piece of a joint in a parking lot in '93 hee in SC. Set up by a female who'd already been busted and was tying to help the police bust a dealer who didn't show up so they'd go easy on her. I was at the wrong place at the wrong time it seems. They suspended my drivers license for six months and it's on my record so that when ever a cop stops me, he claims probable cause to search my vehicle and person! Also it's there for would be employers to see. Maybe my life wasn't destroyed but my reputation was and what for!

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:57 AM

75. So you were hanging put with dealers and police informants and

 

yet you blame a joint for messing up your reputation? Really?

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Response to lalalu (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:40 PM

109. You need reading comprehension lessons.

that is all.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #109)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:14 PM

140. no doubt

and lessons in the essential elements of a valid argument wouldn't hurt either.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #75)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:17 PM

142. wow!

no wonder you're so ignorant of the things you try to speak on!

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Response to lalalu (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:05 PM

62. Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true

It merely highlights your ignorance and/or lack of integrity.

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Response to tabasco (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:58 AM

76. Yet you keep repeating a falsehood.

 

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Response to tabasco (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:51 PM

117. Employers and schools will still be able to test if it is legalized. nt.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:55 PM

15. It is not a myth, there are numbers to back it up

First of all your suggestion that anyone believes "everyone who is in jail is just a misunderstood angel caught smoking a joint" is an absolutely absurd strawman. I challenge you to find a single person that has ever claimed that everyone in jail is a misunderstood angel, just one. If you can not cite anyone who has made such a claim then please stop with the strawmen because I am not going to fall for them.

What we do argue is that many people are arrested and often incarcerated for possession of a plant that has not been shown to have directly caused a single death in all of recorded human history.

Every 42 seconds someone is arrested for marijuana, and that is a fact not an urban myth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/29/one-marijuana-arrest-occu_n_2041236.html

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:02 PM

19. People are not arrested every 42 seconds and put in jail

 

simply for smoking a joint. It is part of other offenses the same people are in jail for.

It is this ridiculous argument that has prevented weed from being legalized. The emphasis should be on the legitimate medical use and the fact it can be regulated under the same laws already on the books for alcohol and tobacco. People know that the premise these criminals are in jail over weed only is false and presenting a false argument always loses.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:18 PM

28. It is a fact that there are more than a million people in our prisons and jails on marijuana charges

While it is true that a good number of those people have other things on their record, it is also an undeniable fact that many are there for nothing more than marijuana.

While it is true that someone like Obama who was probably never in possession of large quantities of marijuana probably would not have served time had he been busted, but that does nothing to discount the point made by the OP. The OP did not ask if he should have gone to jail, it asked if his life should have been destroyed. A criminal record can seriously destroy a person's life even if they do not go to jail.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:59 AM

77. "While it is true that a good number of those people have other things on their record "

 

There it is. They are in jail for other reasons and even if weed were legalized they would still be there for those other reasons.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:18 AM

81. If you are going to quote me at least quote me in full rather than leaving out the crucial part

Immediately following the words you quoted of mine I said "it is also an undeniable fact that many are there for nothing more than marijuana." That changes the context of my words just a bit doesn't it?

No one denies that there are a number of people who are serving time on marijuana charges have also been charged with other crimes, the fact which you seem unwilling to acknowledge however is that there are a huge number of them serving time for nothing aside from pot.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #81)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:23 AM

82. I ignored it because it is not true.

 

People are not sitting in jail because they smoked a joint.

The only way people go to jail for crimes connected to weed is if they possess a significant amount for dealing and they have related charges for offenses such as weapons possession. The reality is that none of you personally know anyone or have ever been jailed merely for having or smoking a joint. It's a myth.

Continuing this argument of tying criminals to the issue of weed only hurts and is completely irrational and false. The merits for legalizing weed are enough to stand on their own. If we focused on that it would be more successful.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #82)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:45 AM

92. False, people are taken to jail when they are first arrested

Many people who are caught smoking a joint get taken straight to jail. They may only stay in jail for a few hours but they still get charged criminally and if convicted it follows them for the rest of their lives.

You are way too focused on only one consequence of the drug war. The OP was not about the possibility of Obama spending years in prison, the OP was about his life being destroyed. If he had been arrested for smoking a joint in college he probably would not have been sentenced to hard time, but his opportunity to achieve the life he has now would have been destroyed.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:21 PM

30. ridiculous indeed

people are arrested every 42 seconds for possession

According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting data, there were a total of 1.5 million drug arrests made nationwide in 2011, and out of those arrests, about 750,000 were for marijuana (just under half, 49.5 percent) -- that's one marijuana arrest every 42 seconds and one drug arrest every 21 seconds in the U.S.


now, where in there does it say there were any other charges associated with the arrest?

and before BHO smoked it, he was in possession of it, no? HAd he been arrested soley for pot, as many are, what would that have done to his life? Hopefully he didn't depend on Pell Grants for his education expenses for starters. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=pell%20grant%20marijuana%20possession&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CEAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstash.norml.org%2Fbill-would-restore-financial-aid-for-students-convicted-of-marijuana-possession-only&ei=y4fCUKmhK42vygHpuID4Cw&usg=AFQjCNG6nzP6WgYysFo1sv8ydCUJLUrR3g

"Smoking" a joint, other than as a probation/parole violation, doesn't lead to arrest except maybe testing positive for it after a blood test following a DWI/OWI suspicion.

The content of the TP stands wholly unrebutted.

Perhaps maybe you'd like to try again?

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Response to stupidicus (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:06 AM

78. Prove it was for weed only.

 

Whenever the truth comes out it always shows they have arrests for other things just like the story about poor Tyrone.

If President Obama had been arrested? So your argument is based on what if? This shows the desperation, lack of proof, and stupidity of this whole agenda. It is as stupid as those opposing legalizing and claim it leads to crime.

President Obama did not get arrested because he made other choices in his life that did not lead to being arrested or involved in crime. It was not some lucky chance. People smoke weed everyday, lead productive lives, and never get arrested because they aren't involved in criminal activity. People at the most will pay a fine or get a misdemeanor charge and even that is rare.

This is a silly argument tying incarceration to weed and is as stupid as tying criminal activity to weed.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:24 AM

83. What is silly is denying that people are incarcerated for weed

The facts have been shown to you but you continue to put your head in the sand and pretend that no one is serving time on marijuana offenses.

I think you may be the only person on this planet who would deny there is a link between incarceration and weed.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #83)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:28 AM

84. Actually people opposing the legalizing of weed link

 

it to crime and incarceration. This is just another example of how stupid people on the left can be. The majority of people who smoke weed are never arrested or incarcerated and lead productive lives. But keep linking it to incarceration, that has been so successful.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:36 AM

85. It is linked to incarceration, that is an undeniable fact

You don't even realize how ignorant you are making yourself look.

There are people serving time for marijuana and that is a fact.

No one ever claimed that the majority of pot smokers go to jail so don't try to pretend that is the issue. The fact that the majority do not get incarcerated does not mean nobody gets incarcerated, there are over a million people in our prison system for marijuana offenses. They may represent a small minority of the total number of pot smokers in the US, but a million people is a lot of people and it is a fact that a large percentage of that million is there for nothing more than marijuana.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #85)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:42 AM

91. Those people are not in jail for just smoking a joint

 

and not one of you know a person that has actually happened to. You just claim to know stories just like typical urban myths.

Your argument actually helps feed the opposition to legalizing weed.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #91)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:50 AM

94. Can you claim that no one is taken to the county jail when first arrested for smoking a joint?

Please note: this thread was not about long term incarceration until you started insisting it was. This thread is about people's lives being destroyed by the drug war. Some of the drug war's victims face long term incarceration, many more are never incarcerated but still have their opportunities in life destroyed by insane laws.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #94)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:08 PM

96. Most people are not even arrested and that is my point.

 

This thread supposes that if President Obama had been stopped for smoking a joint his life would have been ruined. That is utterly ridiculous. At the most he would have paid a fine or been charged with a misdemeanor. President Obama has admitted to experimenting and he got elected twice. That is because he made other choices in his life that were positive. This reminds me of the movie 'Reefer Madness' where young people descend into madness and a dead end because they smoked a joint. It is the same stupid argument just coming from the left.

The argument for legalizing weed has never been successful when people tried to claim it was the cause of so many incarcerations in this nation. Most people realize the two biggest reasons for incarceration in this nation are profit and people making stupid choices. Weed can be legalized tomorrow and we will still have high incarceration rates because we have high drop out rates, pockets of poverty, areas where people think crime is a career, high abuse of other drugs, and a very high motive of incarcerating for profit.

I believe weed should be legalized on a federal level but it will only be achieved if we emphasize the positive benefits and how functioning and productive people smoke weed. This other argument has not and never will be successful.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #96)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:20 PM

98. If Obama had been arrested he would not be President today

If he had been arrested Obama very likely would have never even graduated from college, having any sort of criminal record is very harmful to a person's life.

Pointing out that people do suffer harmful consequences from drug laws is hardly Reefer Madness material, you can deny the facts all you want but the rest of us see the facts that you want to pretend don't exist.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #98)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:23 PM

101. So now you have a crystal ball?

 

LOL, he would never have graduated from college because he got caught with a joint? This is getting ridiculous.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #101)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:36 PM

106. You de realize that people lose financial aid and scholarships when they are arrested correct?

Considering that scholarships no doubt played a big part in allowing Obama to pursue an education at Harvard an arrest would have very likely caused him to lose those scholarships, it happens to people all the time.

If you don't think a criminal record would have made it much more difficult for Obama to reach the level he is now you have your head in the sand.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #91)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:03 PM

95. There is at least one person who faced serious legal consequences for smoking a joint

You dismissed him because you thought he shouldn't be hanging out with dealers and police informants, never mind that associating with people was not a crime.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #95)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:21 PM

100. He can hang out with whomever he chooses.

 

This is his version of what happened and it is possible it happened that way. People sometimes get arrested for hanging out with the wrong people. I think most of us were raised and raised our own children with warnings of be careful whom you hang out with because this is a possibility. I doubt any of us can claim to be angels or associated only with angels.

It was not about "dismissing" his story. The facts are that he was associated with other criminals and criminal activity and it was not the singular act of smoking a joint that got him in trouble. Seriously, people do not get targeted by the DEA for smoking a joint.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #100)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:29 PM

103. Do you not understand that when you make something illegal, any and all activity

associated with it is also illegal?

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Response to lalalu (Reply #100)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:31 PM

105. News flash: pot smokers buy pot from people who sell pot

Obama most likely associated with at least one dealer as well back when he smoked.

I don't know why you are so focused on people going to prison for smoking a joint when no one in this thread claimed that the majority of pot smokers go to prison for smoking a joint. Most of us were already well aware that the people who go to prison for smoking a joint do so usually because of some sort of three strikes law, but we still think that sending someone to prison for smoking a joint is idiotic even if it is a "third strike".

Once again though, no one in this thread had brought up prison for a joint until you brought it up and pretended it was the basis for this entire thread. This thread is about drug laws that destroy people's lives and incarceration is only one way in which lives are destroyed by the drug war.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #105)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:39 PM

107. So now President Obama associated with drug dealers?

 

So you know for a fact he didn't smoke a joint a friend had while they were hanging out.

These dreamed up scenarios are getting worse. The bottom line is that this thread made up some imaginary scenario putting down the president for their own agenda. Yet you wonder why you keep losing the argument and your agenda goes nowhere.

This is why America is so behind other countries. We can't just pass laws and make decisions on their own merit. We have groups with their agendas and mandates screwing up everything. At best we will have a few states with haphazard laws legalizing weed. That's it because a rational discussion cannot occur in America on anything. Believe whatever you want it's hopeless.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #107)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:57 PM

118. Most pot smokers have associated with dealers

I know as a fact that he probably did smoke a joint with a friend when they were hanging out, I also know they had to get the pot from somewhere. Now maybe it was Obama's friend that always brought it over and Obama was never in posession himself, but it is unlikely. Most pot smokers buy a bag at least once so most pot smokers have associated with a dealer.

Should that make him a criminal? Absolutely not, and that is the point. He should not be considered a criminal and no one should be considered a criminal because of past drug use but many people still have to walk around with a criminal record.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #107)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:12 PM

125. There is one person who does keep losing an argument here.

It ain't the poster you responded to, lol.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #78)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:08 PM

139. no, you prove it wasn't

the idea that people aren't busted for possession alone, as BHO certainly could have been since he was in possession, is criminally stupid.

The number of arrests in 2006 increased more than 5.5 percent from 2005. Of the 829,627 arrests, 89 percent were for possession, not sale or manufacture. Possession arrests exceeded arrests for all violent crimes combined, as they have for years. The remaining offenders, including those growing for personal or medical use, were charged with sale and/or manufacturing.

The idea that it can't happen as a result of a stop and frisk, or as the result of a routine traffic stop, etc, is equally so.

gee, what's next, they shouldn't have been driving/walking around with it, and should have called a pot delivery guy and confined their intake to home alone?

By the time you get done qualifying your BS, that's no doubt where we'll be, no?

And I couldn't help but notice you dodged the Pell Grant point. Even had they been involved in other criminal activity, it was the drug charge alone that led to disqualification for such, so great is the comparative evil of possessing/smoking the evil weed.

ANd the idea that some get away with possessing/smoking it without any legal ramifications serves as proof that those that did suffer such had to be involved in some other criminal activity, is not only a logical fallacy, it's probably the most silly thing you posted, other than insinuating that a misdemeanor conviction is a trifling matter.

A Hidden Consequence of Marijuana Crimes
Aside from the relevant state and federal criminal penalties, you should be aware that a conviction for marijuana possession carries with it a second punishment ─ lending institutions, employers and many professional organizations do not look kindly on a misdemeanor or felony conviction. For example, a marijuana possession conviction can prevent you from getting federal school loans and grants, and federal contracts. And it's certainly not a good idea to lie about your conviction on job applications. A conviction can follow you for the rest of your life. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=marijuana%20possession%20convictions&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEAQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.criminalattorney.com%2Fmarijuana%2Fpossession%2F&ei=ArzEUKH0A8m4yQHNpIDwBw&usg=AFQjCNGfc1achARvfxqbfgS74e_5c5qOPQ

http://www.grahamlawyerblog.com/2011/06/05/charged-with-marijuana-possession-here-are-9-things-you-should-know-before-your-arraignment/

WHat you are referring to, is the relatively minor thing it becomes in those states (like 14 or so) where it has been decriminalized and is akin to a traffic ticket, that didn't exist in BHO's smoking days.

BHO was merely lucky he wasn't the victim of happenstance http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/blog/morning-edition/2012/04/snowden-charged-with-marijuana.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_baltimore+%28Baltimore+Business+Journal%29 as countless others have been on the mere "possession" front, and all your bluster and BS ain't gonna change that inarguable fact.

Maybe they all beat it on a technicality like this guy, no? http://www.indystar.com/article/20121028/NEWS02/210280353/Indiana-cops-might-change-traffic-stop-procedure-after-court-overturns-marijuana-conviction

What's "silly" is attempting to "debate" an issue you know little about.

As long as they are smoking and in possession of pot, in most states and federally, they are involved in "criminal" activity.

thanks for the laughs.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:24 PM

43. Support? Data? Link? Anything other than your ass talking?

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Response to morningfog (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:07 AM

79. Data to support what?

 

The fact that the majority of people smoking weed never get charged or go to jail? Here's my data -it's called reality.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:28 PM

102. Ah, you are backtracking now.

it is a myth that people are arrested and have their lives destroyed for smoking a joint.


People are not sitting in jail because they smoked a joint.


The only way people go to jail for crimes connected to weed is if they possess a significant amount for dealing and they have related charges for offenses such as weapons possession. The reality is that none of you personally know anyone or have ever been jailed merely for having or smoking a joint. It's a myth.


This is a silly argument tying incarceration to weed

Those people are not in jail for just smoking a joint

and not one of you know a person that has actually happened to. You just claim to know stories just like typical urban myths.



Now, you say the "majority of people smoking weed never get charged or go to jail." I appreciate your backtracking, you still have a ways to go.

First off, how would one "smoke weed" without being in possession?
In 2009, only 6.8 percent of federal marijuana offenders committed their crimes with a weapon. Marijuana offenders are among the least likely of any drug offenders to have or use a gun during their offenses. Marijuana offenders are the most likely among all federal drug offenders to receive reduced sentences because they played a minimal or minor role in the offense – almost 40 percent of all federal marijuana offenders received such a sentence reduction in 2009. Nearly 70 percent of all federal marijuana offenders sentenced in 2009 had very few or
no prior convictions
.


Data shows that in 2004 (most recent data available), there were over 32,750 people in state
prisons for marijuana trafficking and possession offenses.
This does not include the number of
people who were in jails for marijuana offenses.


According to the FBI, there were over 1.7 million arrests for drug violations in the United
States in 2008. Over 750,000 of these arrests were for simple possession (i.e., not selling,
growing, or distributing) of marijuana, and an additional 93,000 were for selling or trafficking
marijuana.



The federal government and 37 states punish people with imprisonment for simple
possession of marijuana. The federal sentence for simple possession of marijuana is up to one
year in federal prison. Among the 37 states that use imprisonment for simple possession of
marijuana, the sentences vary greatly.
The 13 states that do not use imprisonment to punish at
least some types of simple possession of marijuana are Massachusetts, New York, Maine, Ohio,
North Carolina, Mississippi, Minnesota, Nebraska, Colorado, Nevada, Oregon, California, and
Alaska.


Last year, there were only 105 cases in which people were sent to federal prisons for
simple possession of marijuana
. In the states, most simple possession offenses carry short
sentences of less than one year in jail and/or a fine.


All of the above cited to FBI, US DOJ or Sentencing Reports.
http://www.famm.org/Repository/Files/Marijuana%20FAQ%208.24.10.pdf

Like I said, you are spewing utter bullshit, with nothing to back up your assertions. Your "myth" is a myth. Quit reading bullshit from the Office of Drug Control Policy.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #102)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:40 PM

110. You really need a joint.

 

A perfect example of how some people need the medicinal benefits.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #110)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:47 PM

113. That person just completely destroyed your argument and that is your best rebuttal?

If that is the best response you can give to all the facts posted it proves that you know you lost this debate.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #113)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:49 PM

116. NO, they did not.

 

They just proved their continued reliance on a false agenda and argument. Maybe a joint would expand their mind.

Her postings are from a site with an agenda as usual. As the election just proved people can make up statistics and skew them anyway they want to make themselves believe they are right. then there is reality.

This same person does not know and has never known a single person arrested and jailed for smoking a joint. Urban myths as usual.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #116)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:00 PM

121. So which one of the statistics presented is skewed?

Please cite which facts presented you think are wrong and point us to a source which backs up your case.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #121)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:16 PM

126. In those statistics there

 

were people arrested for other crimes. The statistics always contain notations they were "convicted" of a few other crimes or in some cases no other crimes. These are statistics of people who are convicted and does not contain full information on all their charges or plea deals. Statistics can be put forth to prove anything anyone has as their agenda.

The real statistic is reality. For all these so called millions of people sitting in jail for just smoking a joint it is strange how no one ever knows anyone or has experienced it themselves. It's always a story they heard or some statistics they pull out to justify the myth.

If you or anyone else wants to continue with this then have fun. This is the agenda you have chosen and good luck with it. So far it has been a dismal failure and it's sad because weed should be legalized based on real facts. This is a perfect example of how people will cling to myths no matter what. I am not spending any more time on this. It is just another issue in America that will go nowhere and has the rest of the world laughing at us.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #126)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:20 PM

130. Point to such notations.

"The real statistic is reality." You run with that. Lol.

Most reasonable people will accept statistics rather than personal anecdotes which can't be confirmed. This is too funny. You have an agenda, it is quite transparent.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #126)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:42 PM

134. You are making up false arguments to distract from the real numbers.

Not one person in this thread claimed there are "millions of people sitting in jail for smoking a joint", you completely pulled that out of your ass to distract from the real numbers that were presented. There were some real numbers presented to you above though and these are the ones you need to refute...


According to the FBI, there were over 1.7 million arrests for drug violations in the United
States in 2008. Over 750,000 of these arrests were for simple possession (i.e., not selling,
growing, or distributing) of marijuana, and an additional 93,000 were for selling or trafficking
marijuana.


Last year, there were only 105 cases in which people were sent to federal prisons for
simple possession of marijuana. In the states, most simple possession offenses carry short
sentences of less than one year in jail and/or a fine.


Please don't think saying that some of the people who were arrested were charged with other crimes as well means anything, unless you can present evidence showing that ALL of the people arrested were guilty of other offenses the fact remains that people are incarcerated for nothing more than marijuana.


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Response to lalalu (Reply #116)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:11 PM

124. Follow the links. FBI, DOJ and Federal Sentencing Guidelines.

If you can contradict anything it, I would be happy to consider it.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #116)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:18 PM

129. Here are the federal penalities for marijuana

http://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

Notice it says nothing about smoking but possession

Offense Penalty Incarceration Max. Fine
Possession
Any amount (first offense) misdemeanor 1 year $ 1,000
Any amount (second offense) misdemeanor 15 days* $ 2,500
Any amount (subsequent offense) misdemeanor or felony 90 days* - 3 years $ 5,000

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Response to lalalu (Reply #110)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:10 PM

123. You completely ignored all the facts I provided.

Facts that soundly refute your claims. You instead chose an ad hominem attack. Suit yourself. All the facts are here for any curious or honest person to consider.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #79)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:19 PM

144. which in no way rebuts the fact that many do

which is why everyone is suggesting you need a clue

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Response to lalalu (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:15 PM

63. Educate yourself and stop spreading your stinky BS

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Response to tabasco (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:13 AM

80. Name calling is what people do when they have lost their argument.

 

You fail with your own post

"Only 1 in 18 of these arrests results in a felony conviction, with the rest either being dismissed or adjudicated as a misdemeanor"

The majority of people sitting in prison are not sitting there because of smoking a joint and your own piece proves it. Those who do get convicted are convicted for other crimes and not just for smoking a joint. It is a ridiculous argument that only hurts the cause to legalize.

This country is run by groups with agenda and is why nothing rational can ever get accomplished. On the left we have people with their poor Tyrone stories claiming he wouldn't be in jail if weed was legal. Sure, ignore the fact he dropped out of school and thought committing felonies was a trade. On the right we have people claiming poor Tyrone was driven to crime because he smoked a joint. They just ignore all the proof of productive people who smoke weed.

I am tired of both sides and their stupid agendas. This country is nuts.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:46 PM

111. Let's see

we have 'both sides do it' and up thread we have 'people on the left' in a derogatory manner.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and all that....

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #111)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:48 PM

115. Yes, some people on the left are stupid and

 

push stupid agendas. I know one way I don't walk is in a goosestep.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #115)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:24 PM

131. Maybe you don't walk in a "goose-step" but reading your posts

brought this image to mind and that was before you even mentioned the word "goose-step."



Enjoy your stay.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #131)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:32 PM

132. Nice picture of yourself.

 

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:23 PM

42. Bullshit. Utter bullshit.

Further, more bullshit.

Finally, how the hell do you draw any sort of fucking arbitrary moralistic line between the "experimenter" and the "hardcore user or dealer." How do you think the experimenter was able to experiment?

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Response to morningfog (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:36 PM

57. Yes, it is.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:37 AM

86. You need a joint

 

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Response to lalalu (Reply #86)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:30 PM

104. No, you need a clue.

I am rarely ever in need of a joint.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:40 PM

51. I have a friend that spent 3 years in an Arizona prison over 3 joints. nt

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Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:18 PM

128. MYTH!1111!!1!! Grabaraghhaha!!1!!

Urban myth, it didn't happen!11 YOur friend must have been firing guns at school children, too!!11@@2

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Response to morningfog (Reply #128)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:57 PM

137. He is a Navajo Indian and that was the 1970s.

More like smoking and carrying while being Indian.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:52 PM

53. Well, I do know people that have been arrested and sent to jail as teenagers

or young adults for "experimenting". And most have not been back to jail but since they find it very difficult to get employment, I wouldn't hold my breath. The system is predatory, unjust and frankly sucks.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:38 AM

87. For smoking a joint?

 

Seriously?

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Response to lalalu (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:18 PM

143. good grief

no one is even inferring anyone was tossed in jail for merely smoking -- OWI's notwithstanding. The charge is, that if you're smoking --as BHO did -- you have to be in possession of it beforehand, and subject to arrest for it.

any grade schooler could figure that one out

why are you struggling with it?

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:35 PM

56. "I have never known a single person who went to jail & had their lives ruined over smoking a joint."

I remember a story on public radio a few years back of a young white male who died in prison after bring arrested for a small amount of pot. I believe he was raped while incarcerated. There's one.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:40 AM

89. You heard a story a few years back.....

 

urban myth.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #89)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:35 PM

133. All these"urban myths," examples and government statistics.

It guess everyone on this board and those who publish government reports are liars. You are the sole arbiter of truth. Of course, you can't actually cite anything to support your position, except "reality." And when you are provided with real stories, real facts and real reports, you dig in further.

It must be tough being the only one who is familiar with every marijuana-related conviction and no one believes you.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #89)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 10:32 PM

138. Bullshit. It was a well documented NPR piece.

I just can't remember the details or I'd post the link.

Admit you're wrong.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:02 PM

60. are you a shill or just naive?

I know a man who was imprisoned for 14 years for possession of flour with intent to sell. He embarrassed some DEA clown and they slapped him with conspiracy. Your Pollyanna world where good is rewarded and bad people are gonna pay is laughable. How dare you tell us what we do and do not know as though you have the inside line on everything going on in the world...

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Response to icarusxat (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:38 AM

88. LOL, your friend was targeted for selling crap and not

 

for smoking a joint.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:40 AM

70. You are in heavy denial.

Tens of thousands of people have ended up in prison after they were first hauled into the criminal injustice system for simple possession - disproportionately black youth.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:39 PM

108. Oklahoma woman serving 12 years for pot case released from prison Read more from this Tulsa World a


For simple case of selling $31 worth of pot a Tulsa mother of 2 sentences to 12 years.

Is the above urban myth?

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Response to Cayenne (Reply #108)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:47 PM

112. Here we go again.

 

I heard this story before. The women selling out of her home to an undercover agent and while her children were present? If I remember correctly she also made a plea deal because she didn't want any further investigation.

I completely agree her term was harsh but again this was not for her smoking a joint for personal use. Again this was related to selling and I sincerely doubt the only thing she was selling out of her home was weed which is why she did a plea. Some of you don't want to admit there are other social issues involved in these cases.

Making weed legal should be a stand alone issue and not one tied to all the other social issues you don't want to deal with.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #112)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:00 PM

120. Don't embellish her story without facts.

She was convicted and sentences severely for selling a tiny amount; nothing more. You finally admit this BS is too extreme. Thank you.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #112)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:16 PM

127. Here is what you refuse to deal with:

As long as marijuana is illegal, everyone who experiments with it, uses it regularly or uses it infrequently will be engaging in illegal activity. The illegality or it forces it to the black market, creating a ripple of criminal activity. Every step of the process from growing to distribution to rolling a joint or packing a bowl and then to using it is illegal.

And, yes, there are thousands who have been imprisoned for simple possession and personal use. Repeating your personal willful ignorance does not and will not change that.

The only thing that will change it is legalization.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:47 PM

135. My husband's life was ruined over smoking marijuana

In an effort to fit in our new community, all he did was host some after bar parties and smoke pot with his new friends. Yeah, it was probably his fault for doing that with people who he didn't know well that included a couple of people on probation, some who also did cocaine (although not at these parties) and a police informant who pestered him to sell him drugs several times. Even though, there was never a drug buy, the police got a warrant and found a little over an ounce of pot and my husband's glassware collection. They ran a front page article about the raid and tried to make him out to be a drug dealer. A couple people wrote disparaging letter's to the editor about evil out of town dealers as if that was why he moved there in the first place.
It ended with a "drug house" charge in the plea bargain with probation and 30 days in jail. It ruined his life though because it is a felony. It is on his record and hurts his employment prospects.
The alternative, a trial, would be facing heavier penalties, more press, and a promise that all his "friends" would be investigated.
Maybe there were some bad decisions made, but if marijuana was legal there never would have been any problems. It would have just been like having some drinks with some friends.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:55 PM

136. Blacks account for 12% of the population, 14% of annual marijuana users, & 31% of mj arrests.

Whites in America, just by virtue of their numbers, make up about six times more than the black population and majority of drug users. However, black males were jailed six times more than white males as of 2007, and black men are 11.8 times more likely than white men to be incarcerated for drug use or possession. African Americans comprise 54 percent of all those convicted of first time drug offenses, the report states.

http://www.precinctreporter.com/community/inland-empire/186-marijuana-arrest-stats-according-to-race



I guess those Black people must have more "various problems" than White people.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:38 PM

8. Not a hardcore user with permanent brain damage like, um, I dunno...

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:03 PM

21. people who use too much alcohol?

Permanent brain damage? What, solvent huffing?

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:07 PM

23. Too much booze, too much cocaine...

...who knows what else went up Dubya's nose?

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:17 PM

40. Coke

The refreshing snort.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:07 PM

24. Don't forget Laura was drunk and killed a teenager.

 

Can you imagine the press if Michelle Obama had done the same?

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:40 PM

9. I would guess that a pretty high proportion of politicians, white or black, have used illegal drugs

at some point.

If you were a teenager/ young adult in the 60s or later, and a highly gregarious 'joining' type (and most politicians probably were), then it's fairly likely that you at least tried something. It's not only Obama. There's Bush. Clinton. David Cameron (almost certainly, though he has never formally admitted it). Former Home Secretaries Charles Clarke and Jaccqi Smith. Etc.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:21 PM

41. I have always loved the word "experiment". It is SUCH bullshit.

Yeah, I "experimented" too. Didn't we all?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:39 PM

50. I am still experimenting and

have yet to make a conclusive determination!

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:11 PM

54. You've shown correlation but not causation?

And which of your friends were lame enough to end up in the "control group"?

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:26 PM

44. You should research the statistics of black men who have been in jail.

You will find Obama is not the rule, but the exception.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:34 PM

47. The majority of marijuana arrests come because of a minor traffic violation

such as a tail light out etc.

MILLIONS of people are charged yearly for pot possession. They aren't on street corners slinging hard core drugs, they aren't part of a violent gang, they aren't driving ripped out of their mind on drugs. They are not harming the social welfare of the nation.

They simply have a small bag of pot in their possession and are run through a brutal "justice" system because of a simple BS traffic stop.

I'm tired of the misconception that only hard core dealers are hurt by drug laws. Good hard working families are destroyed every day because of our draconian drug laws.

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Response to obxhead (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:32 PM

64. In the '60s, some marijuana arrests came about as a result of police planting grass. Maybe they

 

don't do that anymore.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:42 AM

71. He was a pot smoker for at least several months in New York City...

at a time when the Rockefeller drug laws resulted in the imprisonment of many people for simple possession.

Of course he could have been swept up in that, if his luck had departed.

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Response to lalalu (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:47 PM

114. So are you under the impression that an arresting officer asks black young men if

they are 'just experimenting' prior to tossing them in prison for having a few buds?
I urge you to look up the wildly lopsided by race enforcement of marijuana laws. Start with NYC....
Marijuana Arrest Crusade - New York Civil Liberties Union
www.nyclu.org/files/MARIJUANA-ARREST-CRUSADE_Final.pdf

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:30 PM

4. The question that should be asked to all politicians who have used any illegal drug is...

"Do you consider yourself to be a former criminal?" Most of them would say "No" and in a society with rational laws that would be the correct answer, but under the current laws anyone who has used drugs is technically a criminal. If a politician wants to treat others as criminals then they need to explain why they do not deserve to be labeled a criminal.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:35 PM

5. But of course the Republicans have the Born Again option.

Once they get re-washed in the blood of the lamb, they're good to go.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:47 PM

34. That question should be asked of Holder.

 

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:38 PM

7. ,

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:47 PM

12. Just a voice in the darkness !

This whole legalization as opposed to decriminalization is a mute point,The real point is what is best served and who is best served
by this legislation ,and being that I am an African American believe all aspects should be looked at from the state level and federal
level, its way more than just recreational use we are talking about,and way more than just Black kids at risk ,like it or not Marijuana is a drug Period. and with that comes all types of issues to many to name in this forum ,What I will say is as liberals open mindedness is a must,Looking past ourselves is what liberalism is, I am not saying it should or shouldn't be legalized but I am saying when lives young or old ,Black,White,Red,Yellow lives hang in the balance of decisions made without challenge,We all lose.
Just a little input into the discourse.

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Response to chille1 (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:48 PM

52. There is no honest rational for pot to be Schedule I

Alcohol, tobacco, and legal rx drugs cause more harm.

Decriminalization as opposed to legalization still criminalizes production and distribution.

The war on pot is the failed prohibition of alcohol on steroids.

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Response to chille1 (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:58 PM

119. Wow.

An example of form as content, the flaws in the arugument here are the flaws in the argument here.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:57 PM

16. According to his policies it should have been. n/t

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:10 AM

67. Bingo! n/t

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:11 PM

25. or Bush or Gore or (insert name of a majority politicians you see on TV)?

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:12 PM

26. You mean like Rush Limbaugh's life was destroyed by a drug bust.

 

Oh, wait a minute....

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:20 PM

29. It probably would have been if he were a black college age kid

As an extremely rich white guy Rush does not have to suffer the same consequences that many others face.

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:49 PM

35. Apparently his life and his brain was destroyed by drugs, not a drug bust.

 

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:17 PM

27. Obama is way too smart to let us down on this issue. nt

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Response to tridim (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:51 PM

36. Sure he is..

And don't worry, I remember your prediction that Obama was going to push for a rescheduling of marijuana during his 2nd term..

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Response to Upton (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:04 PM

61. I'm feeling really good about my prediction.

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Response to tridim (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:11 AM

68. Fine.

He's won the election. Time to step up.

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Response to tridim (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:26 PM

45. He already has.

See First Term.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:33 PM

32. no, as no ones should

he should have some of that empathy he's always talking about, and pardon all those in fed prisons for mere possession of it.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:01 PM

37. For him it's okay

For us he ignores or laughs at our questions regarding marijuana. It is an arrogance and hypocrisy of the highest order.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:02 PM

38. Well said...

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:14 PM

39. Excellent post.

Cuts right through the hypocrisy.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:29 PM

46. agreed - i hope the democratic leadership is not stupid enough to go against the will of the people

on this one.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:37 PM

49. POTUS Obama is a liar and a hypocrite regards to pot policy. nt

I don't want to see anyone's life destroyed.

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Response to PufPuf23 (Reply #49)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:47 PM

58. You Think MSM Will Confront Him On This?

Maybe some mainstream media talking head will pose the question to him. I wonder if Holder smoked weed in college? Obama shows you can smoke weed and get a degree from Harvard Law.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:38 PM

65. No, but he was 100% opposite on the record when campaigning in 2008.

There are more important things than pot.

Holder is a loser. Holder defended Central American supported right wing paramilitaries as a lawyer. Barf.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:15 AM

69. If he hasn't figured it out by now then...

yes!
I think he will do the right thing in the end though!

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:45 AM

72. Great idea for a post! I beat you to it by four years...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/JackRiddler/282

This can't be emphasized enough.

The war on drugs is insane.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:55 AM

73. It's a good point

If every "youthful indiscretion" had been prosecuted criminally at the time, which statesman or community leader or innovator or humanitarian would ever have had the chance to achieve their full potential?

I'm willing to bet not many.

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Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #73)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:08 AM

74. Agree!

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:40 AM

90. He was fortunate to avoid arrest. Or worse a minor arrest /w evidence planting by corrupt police.

We look at the history can see pot was made criminal to get people into jail,raise revenue(have slave chain gang workers) and create an industry to arrest a segment of Americans.

I wish the President would/could he use a Pres. mandate?? to totally decriminalise *just marijuana*

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 11:45 AM

93. I agree it should all be decriminalized

Though I think they will decriminalize only what the average white kid would have done, i.e. experimented with pot or cocaine here and there. And like Chris Rock points out, Obama was a white kid.

Using Obama personally over this issue - really? Most of us experimented, as it's been said, someone who didn't would be a bit weird socially, or a fundie from childhood. Anyone who acts like a fundie from 16-29 is too weird to get the votes for a nomination for the Presidency.

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Response to treestar (Reply #93)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:03 PM

122. I hate to break this to you but 'the average white kid' does a variety of drugs that

sets the pace for all other kids across the nation and the planet. That is to say white kids do more and more types of drugs than kids of other races, statistically speaking. They just get arrested for it far, far less.

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Response to phantom power (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 12:11 PM

97. Prohibition of anything is a big fantasyland joke. nt

 

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Response to phantom power (Original post)


Response to phantom power (Original post)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:17 PM

141. Let the Feds go after large, multi-state criminal drug-dealing gangs,

and work with the governments of foreign countries on the international drug rings, but leave everything else to the states.

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