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Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:04 PM

Politically incorrect question about December 7th

71 years on from 12/7/1941, we still fly the flag at half-mast to remember Pearl Harbor. I don't recall that we did this in the 70s or 80s, but I do know that we've gone back to doing it since 9-11.

Question: Why December 7th? Obviously, we all respect the sacrifice that took place ar Pearl Harbor, but we have Veterans Day and Memorial Day. There have been many more costly and horrific days in US military history -- June 6th, 1944 (D-Day), September 17, 1862 (Antietam), July 1-3, 1863 (Gettysburg)... I could go on. We don't lower the colors to half mast on those days -- so why December 7th?

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply Politically incorrect question about December 7th (Original post)
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 OP
Recursion Dec 2012 #1
RebelOne Dec 2012 #20
SQUEE Dec 2012 #2
Taverner Dec 2012 #3
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #17
Taverner Dec 2012 #23
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #24
Taverner Dec 2012 #25
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #26
Taverner Dec 2012 #27
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #4
murielm99 Dec 2012 #5
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #6
TeamPooka Dec 2012 #15
mn9driver Dec 2012 #7
underoath Dec 2012 #11
pangaia Dec 2012 #28
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #16
pangaia Dec 2012 #29
Vox Moi Dec 2012 #8
Foolacious Dec 2012 #13
slackmaster Dec 2012 #9
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #21
kydo Dec 2012 #10
SQUEE Dec 2012 #14
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #19
Recursion Dec 2012 #12
Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #18
Raine Dec 2012 #22

Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:11 PM

1. Because some people in that generation are still alive

We'll probably do it for 80 years or so every September 11th too. National flag-lowering is largely a post-WWII thing (mourning was a much different thing before that).

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Response to Recursion (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:32 PM

20. I am still alive.

I remember the bombing of Pearl Harbor. I was only 3 years old when my parents told me that Pearl Harbor had been bombed, and I remember saying poor Pearl because I thought that Pearl was a little girl.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:12 PM

2. Part of it is ..

That Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day is an officially recognized day of remembrance, this is different than an actual "holiday". IIRC it was began in the mid 90s..

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:15 PM

3. Because we're MURIKA! Shut up commie!

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:17 PM

17. Note: The Poster with the Eugene Debs sig line called me a commie. ;)

I'm proud to be an MURIKAN, where at least I know I'm free.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:46 PM

23. Jeez - I am joking

 

I am on your side dude!

Did I really need a tag?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:56 PM

24. Did you not see the wink emoticon at the end of my post title?

I knew you were joking. I thought I was joking back.

No -- you did not need a sarcasm tag. I got it.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:57 PM

25. Sorry - it's been a long night

 

Old Fashioned?

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Response to Taverner (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:01 PM

26. Sure! After we're done with those, I have a bottle we can work on

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:03 PM

27. Sounds good. And some...

 

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:19 PM

4. The surprise attack on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese on December 7th ....

....marked the official beginning of the United States' involvement in WWII.

List of Days to Fly the U.S. Flag at Half Mast

Customary Days:

Federal guidelines designate special days of remembrance when it is customary to fly the flag at half-mast. Sunrise-to-sunset days include Peace Officers Memorial Day on May 15, Patriot Day on September 11 and Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day on December 7. On Memorial Day the flag is to be flown at half-mast from sunrise to noon, and then raised back to its peak position at the top of the pole.

Additional Days:

Other days are designated when it is appropriate, as a sign of respect, to lower the flag to half-mast. These include President's Day on the third Monday in February, Flag Day on June 14 and Veteran's Day on November 11. Though not a mandate to do so as on federally designated days, flying the flag at half-mast on these days indicates a show of honor.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:21 PM

5. It is something we should remember.

We were attacked directly, in a terrible act of war. WWII is behind us, but it was a worldwide holocaust. Everyone lost something.

Even if our ceremonies become briefer, we should remember the day with respect.

I have often thought that younger people are not being taught to have a sense of history. I don't mean just the facts and figures. I mean how we can use our understanding to change things now and in the future.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:21 PM

6. Can't be in a war over the "2nd Pearl Harbor" without remembering the 1st.




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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:43 PM

15. Bingo! We have a winner. No more calls please... nt

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:22 PM

7. Unlike your other examples,

The attack on Pearl Harbor was a sneak attack on us by an enemy. Not that different emotionally from 9/11.

Despite what some say about FDR possibly knowing it was coming, or that the US provoked it, the fact remains that Americans had no idea. It was a huge trauma which in an instant spurred more unity in this country than has ever been seen since then.

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:43 PM

11. Your description can be used exactly for 9/11 as well. Americans had no idea..

 

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Response to underoath (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:32 PM

28. Well, most Americans had no idea....

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Response to mn9driver (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:11 PM

16. Point taken

...and I understand that 12/7 was the start of 3.5 years of exceptionally bloody warfare and national sacrifice.

All I'm saying is that there were 23.000 casulaties at Antietam/Sharpsburg. It was horrific.

Another random thought -- 12/29 is the anniversary of the massacre at Wounded Knee, SD. We do nothing that commemorates the lives lost -- Native and European -- in the so-called "Indian Wars."

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:34 PM

29. Even worse the 4 days of Chancellorsville.

And Wounded Knee-- yes. thank you for the reminder..

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:24 PM

8. Pearl Harbor Day was the watershed event that ushered in 4 years of warfare.

The attack made the horrors of days like D-Day and Iwo Jima and even Hiroshima inevitable.
It is one of the few times in our history that on the first day a war we knew that it would be long and bloody and, perhaps, that victory was not to be assumed.
There were worse days in terms of casualties, of course, but I can't think of a single day that had the kind of gravity that Pearl Harbor had.
September 11, 2001 was a similar day, on the day itself, but the consequences in terms of disruption and death simply don't compare (yet).
Dec 7th, 1941 really did change America and its place in the world for generations.

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Response to Vox Moi (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 03:14 PM

13. 4 MORE years of warfare.

The first day of WW2 was 3 September 1939. 7 December 1941 marked the USA's formal entry.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:30 PM

9. I think its important to use every opportunity to remember the lessons of World War II

 

Too many of us have forgotten, or never learned.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:40 PM

21. One of my close family members works for the National Archives.

This individual has spent much of her/his career managing captured German records from WWII. There is one lesson (well more than one - but one in particular) I learned from those records:

There.was.a.Holocaust. We know, in part, because the Germans themselves documented it.

Those who would deny it are terminally stupid or willfully ignorant beyond all reason.

I somethmes think, however, that Americans are less familiar with the multitude of war crimes and atrocities committed by the Empire of Japan. The Baatan Death March, the execution and or enslavement of POWs, the enslavement of "Comfort Women" in Korea and other occupied territories, and many other crimes are far less well known.

Let me clear -- we fought the good fight. I'm not saying we didn't. It's just that there have been many other days where we shed a lot of blood in a worthwhile cause, and those days don't seem to be remembered.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 01:33 PM

10. Because I got sober?

No really I did. On this date Dec 7, 2000 I picked up my first and only white chip. Haven't had a drink since.

But to answer your question, its probably a generaton thing. To the US generation living at the time of the attack it was as dramaic event their 911. It was one of those moments in time that changed history.

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Response to kydo (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:41 PM

14. Congratulations

I hope you stay clean and sober another 12, then another..Times like these are sure to try your serenity.

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Response to kydo (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:26 PM

19. First, good on you!

Second -- OK, so by that logic, why don't we put the flag at half mast for April 12th -- the anniversary of the attack on Fort Sumter in 1861? Surely attack was as impactful as that one, for from 4/12/1861 to 4/9/1865 (and actually a few weeks past that date), America underwent unspeakable carnage, and was left forever changed.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 02:59 PM

12. It's also the 2055th anniversay of Cicero's assasination... (nt)

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:20 PM

18. Because it's the last time we went to war

with the country that attacked us

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 09:45 PM

22. I remember it being a big deal long before 9-11. nt

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