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Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:43 PM

Millennials don't want to be coddled, they want jobs!

Last edited Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:46 PM - Edit history (2)

Disclaimer: This post is a rant and as such may not be all that logical, but I'm rather annoyed right now so oh well.

I am really freaking sick of this line I hear from older generations that the reason my generation, Millennials, are having such a hard time is because we have been "coddled" or think we are all "special snow flakes" or obsessed with social media. Maybe some small part of that is true, after all there is some small truth to most every stereotype or else it wouldn't exist, but that is not the real reason my generation is having such problems. We are having problems because just as a lot of us are starting our adult lives the economy crashed due mostly to the actions of a bunch of rich older bankers.

A lot of my generation are forced to start their lives off either in huge debt, no decent job prospects, or if you are really unlucky both. Maybe my generation does have it easier than the boomers or other older generations in a lot of ways, but we also have it older. Most boomers grew up in a time when the American economy was on the rise, at a time when you could get a decent job with a high school education or get a very good job with a college education. Now, you have to get a college degree and hope and pray for a decent job. If you only have a high school diploma you are pretty much screwed.

So let me make this very clear if you are one of the older generation sitting at home complaining about how my generation has it too easy and needs to toughen up and get a work ethic, I just have one thing to say to you. Go to hell and take your self-righteous altitude with you. My generation would be very happy to work if we had the same job opportunities you all had. The fact is that we don't and I'm really sick of hearing Boomers and others blame my generation and call us lazy when they started their adult lives off in a much better job market than we did. To be clear this isn't attack on all Boomers, only the ones who have the nerve to sit around and call my generation lazy or complain about how coddled we've been. I'm sorry if that is you, then please go straight to hell, because I am beyond sick of hearing your sanctimonious inaccurate opinion. We don't want be coddled or told how special we are despite how popular that meme is. We want jobs, we want a decent education without crippling debt, we want political institution that aren't corrupt to their core. In short, we want the same opportunities the generation before us had and we aren't getting them.

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Reply Millennials don't want to be coddled, they want jobs! (Original post)
white_wolf Dec 2012 OP
leftstreet Dec 2012 #1
sadbear Dec 2012 #2
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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:45 PM

1. You should be out looking for a job





DURec

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:51 PM

2. Are there not even any entry-level jobs to be had either?

When I graduated college in '98, I couldn't find any job that would pay all my bills and leave much left over, too. But I could get my foot in the door, yes, starting with minimum wage, and after 14 years, I've been able to build a resume and climb steadily to near comfort. I still have a lot of debt that was accrued during college and the lean times, but I'm doing a lot better now. Forgive my ignorance, but are those kinds of jobs not available either?

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Response to sadbear (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:10 PM

5. Sure there are some, but not near enough.

I read a story where McDonald's hired 62,000 people out of 1 million applications for jobs. That's just one example. There are not enough entry level jobs, not to mention that some places won't hire you with a college degree for fear you are over-qualified. The job market is much worse now than it was in 1998, you can't even really compare the two.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:38 PM

9. No.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:18 PM

23. Not really

Maybe in fast food and retail somewhat, but that's it.

When the older folks got laid off, they gobbled up the entry level stuff.

A lot of college grads are also stuck at entry level.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:26 PM

30. Actually, This Boomer

started out in retail, because she graduated from college in 1980 and needed a job in order to have health insurance. Could have turned it into a career, too. The job outlook at the time was quite bad. I'm not one to sit around complaining about millenials, but I do get sick of hearing how the present job market is the worst ever. It's not. It's lousy, but it's not 1931.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:31 PM

34. It's the worst since 1931. n/t

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Response to RobinA (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:36 PM

40. Retail isnt what it used to be

That industry has been taken over by the big box stores and giants like Wal-Mart. They treat the employees like cattle. There is practically no upward movement. They don't care about your future. Benefits dont exist. If they offer insurance, it's too expensive for the minimum wage to pay for it. They have tons of turnover. And they cut people's hours like crazy.

It's not a steady job. Unless you go with some of the smaller stores or small businesses.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:35 PM

39. I graduated college in 2000

I had a little bit of a hard time getting my first permanent job, but there were temp jobs and "entry level jobs" were all over the place. Few places paid minimum wage because it was hard to get enough workers for that. People graduating the year or three before us had an even easier time.
Now experienced people with decent work histories apply to temp jobs and there is competition for entry level work.
The same companies with the same positions are paying the same or less than they were 12 years ago.
I know this is antedotal, but isn't unemployment about twice what it was in the late 90s.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:02 PM

77. The key item in your post, "1998", the height of the tech boom

Back then, the labor market was tight because it was the dawn of the internet and e-commerce sites.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 06:48 PM

93. 26 million looking, 3.6 million jobs available.

Last edited Thu Dec 6, 2012, 02:17 AM - Edit history (1)

Data from the October BLS and JOLTS reports:

12,258 - Unemployed - http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t01.htm
8,344 - Part-Time for Economic Reasons - http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t08.htm
6,142 - Not in Labor Force and Want a Job - http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm
26,744,000 jobs needed/wanted as of the date of that report.

vs

3.6 million job openings in Jolts Survey - http://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.nr0.htm
- on the last business day of September, essentially unchanged from August.


So we are about 23-24 million jobs short, adding a couple million people a year to the population.

Millions of good-paying jobs have been disappeared, millions of others have been replaced with much less.



Here.

The fastest growth in jobs is in the category that IF you are paid for full time at the top of that range, your pay is roughly $27,760. The Federal Poverty level for a family of 4 is $23,050, widely considered to be too low a number (school lunches are free at that level, 50% off at twice the poverty level.


“... Breakfast and lunch is critical to our families,” said Steve Barnes, the principal at Holmes Elementary School in West Central Spokane, where more than 90 percent of children qualify for a free meal. “A lot of our kids come to school hungry....”
Here].

50% of ALL Idaho school students qualify for free or reduced price lunch, Here.

Some of the kids say that school lunch or breakfast is the only meal they can count on. Look in those eyes on Friday and know that some won't eat again until Monday. (It occurs to me that if they really want to improve the performance of students, educators, parents, and interested others could do worse than go on strike until the parents are paid fairly, and maybe we invest enough that we get rid of the barrier of tuition for adults in vo-techs and universities. Those things would likely increase the teacher's performance evaluation more than any technique they use. If parents could model for the kids that we REALLY think education is more important than just paying it lip service, imagine the impact).

But I digress. It used to be that people went into manufacturing, and the multiplier effect of such work from the skills, knowledge, and problems that needed to be resolved would create new businesses to supply the existing ones, or simply meet a new demand. We don't get that from coffee servers and home care aides that make $7.69 to $13.83.


Here.



Manufacturing is more productive, but without millions of jobs that are likely gone forever. That's another loss of a job creation engine which we used to enjoy.

Generally speaking, then, the kinds of jobs you speak of are the ones which exist in more sufficient numbers when demand is pushing employment, and 24 million people aren't looking for work.

Today is different, and not likely to get substantially better for at least the next 10 years. To bring us back we would need at least $10-20 Trillion invested in the industries we have let get old and rusty since 1980, and at least as big an investment in people to train them on newer technologies, so they can operate the machines our capitalists encouraged the Chinese to invest in so greedy bastards can make money from others' labor, and destroy our economy because we are aren't doing enough.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:54 PM

3. The "Millennials are coddled" meme is used to justify victim-blaming.

The 1% want people to think that we are too spoiled and have "too high expectations", when in reality we just want GOOD-PAYING JOBS.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:27 PM

137. Not even victim-blaming as much as simply justifying smug superiority

Most of it isn't even about the younger generations as much as it's the same tired "it's my turn to howl about how terrible kids are these days and how they're doing everything wrong by which I really mean things are different now than they were forty years ago not that I'll ever dare admit that because oh my God the lawn they're on it" crap that people have been hurling back and forth for at least as long as we've had written language.

("Oh, but it's different with this generation," the inevitable followup, has been around for as long as written language minus one generation, probably.)

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:59 PM

4. I think the kids getting out of school now are having it real bad.

I am 64 (almost 65). I saw the previous generation come in at work. They had to be praised for just showing up to work. If they just did the normal amount of work, they felt like they needed a party for doing it.

I can't put my finger on it, but something is very strange going on. I do the phone work at a fortune 500 company. I will built up a phone for a new employee and install it in a cube. Wait about 90 days and I will be installing another phone number in the same cube.

I don't know if they move on, get fired or what. But the new kids are not lasting very long in the corporate world.
Every so often I will see some rise up the ranks real fast, but not very frequently.

I often wonder if they are being told that they will rise up the ranks real fast, and they give up when they don't.

I know it is hard for a kid getting out of college with a degree and starting off as just a worker-bee, but those seem to be staying..

I don't know why the young are leaving. I know I am leaving the corporate scene because I am just tired and I want to open up a position for some of the kids. I can not afford to do it, but it is the right thing to do.

I am Hoping some other 65 year olds will make some positions for the kids out there.

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:09 PM

19. It is a different world.

Well I am not as old as you, being only 45, when I came out of high school with no degree my options were varied.

My options were all in the trades, but all the trades had opportunity.

There was no doubt that the contruction trades was how I would begin my life. The minimum wage was $3.35 and basic unexperienced contruction labor paid $6, I was young, strong, and not about to work retail. I began as a straight up laborer, digging, carrying, and whatever else I was told to do. I learned quick, and before I knew it happened I was the lead laborer, I worked for that company for two years before I took a job as a form carpenter with a bigger company. By that time I was pulling in $9/Hr, almost three times the minimum wage. I continued to work for the next two years figuring out what my niche was, it ended up being metal fabrication. Beginning as a field welder I progressed from there into workshops, learning every aspect of welding in all process and metal types, my early experience had already taught me how to understand drawings and prints and that experience grew from there. Eventually I moved into the machinist trade and from there to where I am now, first class fabricator, aka millwright ... first class welder/fitter/machinist. I now make well over $30/Hr and could walk out of my job right now and have another one within the week, there are few people like me and the industry is not building more.

I do not know when exactly it happened, but the trades were shunned. I can actually remember my ex telling me in my early carpenter days that I needed to "go back to school and get a real job". My skills were not considered valuable, my talents were thought by many to simply be something "anyone can do". Make no mistake I worked hard to get where I am, I learned from those around me, and often did things "above my pay" just to learn. The carrot was there, I worked with men who always had money, drove kick ass cars, and had solid families ... I wanted those things and I got them.

Damn sure glad I was that age when I was.

Today those same jobs pay ... minimum wage. Construction labor pays shit, and there is no desire to teach anyone a trade or skill set. I have no idea why that is, but it is. There is little out there for a high school grad.

By the same token, I was told two years ago that I needed an apprentice. I am, literally, the only person in our shop who can do what I do. Granted, they could hire in someone if I were to leave, but the learning curve would still be there. So, as the business has grown management did the smart thing and made me look to find a person. I went to the trade school portion of the high school, the auto mechanic class and made my pitch.

Entry level machinist with a mutli-national firm, starting at $15/Hr with full benefits and two weeks paid vacation after 90 days. Out of the class of 30, 3 people were interested, 2 sent me resumes, 1 showed up for an interview. The company hired that kid, he has been here 1.5 years. He has had two raises and now makes (assuming I don't truly know) $17/Hr. He is 20 years old.

I was informed by HR that he has threated to quit if he did not get a raise in January (significant raise $6-8/Hr), I sat down and talked to him and his response was simple ... he had learned all he could from me and was now capable of doing what I do and should be paid for it.

LOL, I wish him the best of luck where ever he ends up. He will find that 1.5 years of experience will get him ... minimum wage.

Truthfully, I have no idea when all this happened, I was busy working and did not really pay attention that the people I was working with were getting older. There are some young guys here and there, but really here at the shop everyone is my age. Maybe it is that the young people do not want to put in thier time, maybe they feel they are being exploited.

I remember when I was 19 and said something stupid to the boss and he told me, "you right ... I remember when I was a kid and knew everything, I just grew old and forgot it all".

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Response to Lurker Deluxe (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:20 PM

24. It is a different world.

You pointed out you had good trade jobs, those are much rarer now. The idea that college is the only way to get ahead has been preached for decades now and it's gotten to the point where a college degree is little more than what a high school diploma was a generation ago. The way things are going we will have P.H.D.s competing for manager positions.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:52 AM

159. You are right that college has been pushed for decades.

But trades jobs are not gone and they're probably not as rare as you've been led to believe.

I work for an organization that hires a lot of tradespeople, and it's really hard to find people to fill those jobs. We recently had a boilermaker job to fill; in this major metropolitan area, we had 4 qualified applicants. Recent marine electrician job: 2 qualified applicants. Recent inside machinist job: 2 qualified applicants. The only reason we are able to hire enough marine engineers is because we run an internship program and then hire our interns.

We really struggle to fill these jobs. Carpenters, Insulation workers, Boilermakers, Sheet metal workers, Electricians, Pipefitters, Machinists... these are all real jobs, but not necessarily "college" jobs. Our worker population is aging, and it's actually hard to find qualified people for these positions.

This industry might be old school, but it's not going away. And we are not getting new blood.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:28 PM

6. Millennials should start their own businesses. Obama says he supports small businesses. Small

 

Business Centers are available to help with any start up, so go for it.

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Response to jody (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:35 PM

8. You're joking right? Not everyone can start their own small business or even want to.

Most small businesses do not succeed. Besides in some cases it would be extremely irresponsible, both financially and ethically, to start your own business. My (hopefully) future career as a lawyer is a great example of that. No new attorney should go out on their own, it would be a major disservice to their clients and would likely doom the new lawyer to failure.

The fact that you are even suggesting it proves my point. The Boomers did not need to start their own businesses, they could go out and get a decent job in a factory and support their families or go to college and get a very good job. Millennials do not have that opportunity.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:50 PM

13. Not joking. nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:52 PM

14. Yeah, I didn't think so. Admit it you are libertarian.

All of your posts sound like something I'd read from the Cato Institute or the Reason Foundation. Oh and by the way I noticed you didn't address any of my problems with your suggestion.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:04 PM

16. I'm a democrat who agrees with Jefferson and Madison and the rights of each individual that govt. is

 

obligated to protect.

You assert, "get a decent job in a factory and support their families or go to college and get a very good job. Millennials do not have that opportunity."

But every one of those factories you invoke that provided a decent job all started off as a small business.

What part of our Constitution obligates businesses to provide jobs to all and what part of that Constitution allows government to deny you and all others the right to start your own business.

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Response to jody (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:08 PM

18. No one said anything about denying people the right start small businesses.

Seriously where did you get any of that from? Furthermore, business owners should provide decent jobs to everyone instead of shipping them overseas to take advantage of slave labor. Finally, the Constitution has nothing to do with this conversation.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:20 PM

25. Your OP said "Millennials . . . want jobs!" My posts point out that each person seeking a job has

 

the opportunity to start their own business.

You seem to say that just being born obligates society to provide you with a job, i.e. an entitlement.

If you are correct, then society is entitled to certain things from you.

OP talks about your claim to an entitlement from society but what about society's entitlement from you?

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Response to jody (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:24 PM

27. Why don't you answer Kesterl19's question.

Where do you propose they get the money to start these small businesses? But you know what I'll grant you something. Society does owe an obligation to provide the people with a decent livelihood. We lose billions in tax cuts to the wealthy, spend billions on war and corporate welfare. With that kind of money being wasted, society damn well does have an obligation since it it s our tax dollars pay for the wars and corporate welfare. It's like my signature says if we cannot create a just society than is it worth creating a society at all?

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:29 PM

33. One place to start is your local small business center.

 

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Response to jody (Reply #33)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:33 PM

38. Let's play your game and assume everyone has the money to start a business.

Now how do you propose they compete with established companies such as Wal-Mart, Apple, Microsoft. Furthermore, what do you think would happen if everyone tried to start a small business?

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #38)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:49 PM

44. Only an idiot would dream of trying to compete with those major firms. There are however many

 

opportunities to start up a new business and many appear all the time.

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Response to jody (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:50 PM

45. For some sure.

Not everyone has the skills or desire to start a business. That's the point. You throw it around like it's the solution to the problem and it isn't.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #45)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:56 PM

49. If someone doesn't have the skills to start a business, then they will always be an employee.

 

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Response to jody (Reply #49)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:57 PM

51. That's my whole point. There aren't enough jobs for people to be employees at. n/t

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #51)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:05 PM

54. We agree there are not enough jobs. New jobs come either from expanding production when demand is

 

already satisfied or starting new production.

Do you have another way to create jobs?

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Response to jody (Reply #54)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:08 PM

151. supply sider, eh? busted

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Response to dionysus (Reply #151)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:39 PM

152. How do think new jobs are created? nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #152)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:04 PM

153. by the demand side. supply means shit if people are too broke to buy the product.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #153)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:16 PM

155. Demand triggers increase in existing production or new production as I said.

 

So where do we disagree?

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:06 AM

113. You mean like how Walmart competed with

 

KMart, Ontario, and a bunch of similar established stores?

Or how Apple and Microsoft competed with companies such as Commodore?

If everyone started a business, wages would go up for those who needed actual workers in their business.

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Response to jody (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:25 PM

28. When Jefferson and Madison lived, land was plentiful.

It could be bought for very little, and Jefferson stated something to the effect that we would always be a country of farmers and therefore free. There were slaves and indentured servants and wage-earners in Jefferson's time, but he saw slaves as so inferior as not to be fully human (horrors, I know, but that is how he viewed them) and the others as potential landowners.

There isn't enough land now for everyone to have his or her farm. That is why the Jeffersonian ideal about our economy is irrelevant today.

If each of us had our own small business, we would look like a slum in Mexico City with lots of little push carts and very poor owners of very small businesses.

It's arithmetic. Right-wingers aren't very good at it. That's the problem.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:29 PM

32. Beyond that using both Jefferson and the Constitution as appeals to authority is rather ironic.

Jefferson said every Constitution should expire in 20 years. Anything lasting beyond that is an act of force and not of right.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:43 PM

41. Agree re land but computers were not available to Jefferson and Madison. Why don't you

 

quit with the ad hominem attacks and address some facts.

1. Every business, large or small, one day started off as a small business.

2. Every new small business start-up might someday become a multinational conglomerate and be under attack from those who demand jobs.

Observation, it's very difficult for a small-business start-up to survive with all the government restrictions.

IMO those who demand jobs should start their own business, learn how government fights you, and then join the cry of those fledgling entrepreneurs.

Obama held a two hour conference recently with a dozen or so small business owners to listen tho their complaints.

OK but IMO he should hold another conference of those who started a small business and were bankrupt in a couple of years.

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Response to jody (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:46 PM

43. it's very difficult for a small-business start-up to survive with all the government restrictions.

That is a right-wing talking point straight from libertarian thinktanks.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #43)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:52 PM

46. That's also a left-wing talking point. Democratic platform says:

 

Helping Small Business. Small businesses employ half of all working Americans, and, over the last two decades, have created two out of three net new jobs. Democrats believe that small businesses are the engine of job growth in America. President Obama signed 18 small-business tax cuts to encourage businesses to hire more workers and make job-creating investments in machinery and equipment and proposed significant additional small business tax relief. He encouraged investment and supported start-ups by allowing businesses to write off the full cost of new equipment and machinery they bought in 2011. Altogether, the President’s Small Business Jobs Act accelerated $55 billion in tax relief through 2011. Democrats made it easier for small businesses to access the loans they needed to grow and hire. The President signed into law changes to help entrepreneurs raise capital while maintaining key investor protections. Small businesses are now once again creating jobs. Democrats have helped small businesses provide health insurance to their workers with a tax credit to help pay for the cost of coverage. In 2014, the tax credit will grow and small businesses will be able to pool their purchasing power together to get affordable coverage.

We recognize the importance of small business to women, people of color, tribes, and rural America and will work to help nurture entrepreneurship.

President Obama and the Democratic Party are committed to continue cutting red tape for small businesses, helping them sell their goods around the world and access the capital they need to grow. This includes tax cuts for small businesses that make new investments, hire more workers, or increase wages.

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Response to jody (Reply #46)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:54 PM

47. The argument for getting rid of regulation is very right-wing.

The idea that the government is fighting against business owners as you claimed is right-wing.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #47)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:59 PM

53. So when Obama supports getting rid of regulations that affect small-businesses he is just another

 

right-wing spokes person.

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Response to jody (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:36 PM

99. It is very hard to start a small business.

I tried to start a small business and soon realized that I could not realistically do it within the time frame I had. My business was not one in which I would not make enough profit to afford to hire other people to help me out for a number of years. I knew that by the time I built my capital base so that I could hire someone, I would have to retire. There just wasn't time.

One of the reasons that our economy and our businesses in the US are so efficient is that we divide tasks among people with different talents. Having tried to run my own business and also, at other times, having worked for small businesses, I would say that it is not government regulation that is the hindrance to the success of the beginning entrepreneur (and I was in a business that was mostly rules, rules, rules, rules, rules, laws, laws, laws, laws, laws) Rather the challenges are finding investment money (not all that important in my business, but usually the biggest hurdle) and competing with better capitalized, more experienced, better known businesses in the same field.

In fact, a smart businessman in my field learns the rules better than anyone else and then uses his knowledge of the rules to get an advantage over the competition.

So, my suggestion to those who feel that the rules are an obstacle to their success is to learn the rules and understand them better than anyone else. Play them like a musical instrument.

The rules are there to help you, to even the playing field between your business and those of others. If you know the rules of a sport so well when you go out on the playing field that you know how to gain technical advantages over your competitors, you will make the game much easier for yourself. You still have to be the best player, but you will have an advantage over those who do not know the rules as well as you do. So many people who complain about the regulations got into a problem because they violated some obscure regulation. It's the job of a businessperson to know the regulations just as well as they know the technology in their field. A bigger business has a huge advantage in a regulated industry because it can hire lawyers and specialists to learn and work with the regulations.

So, rules are our friends. The better you know them the less they are a hindrance. And most of the rules are there for a reason. That is especially true of building codes, environmental restrictions and rules that are intended to prevent fraud.

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of people, small businessmen in particular, complain about government regulation and focus their complaints on the federal government when in fact the regulations that they perceive to be bars to their success are local. Zoning regulations are a good example.

You can change local regulations. There are many ways to do it. Your local politicians want to be elected, and if you can get the support of other voters, you can petition a local politician to take up your cause and change regulations you don't like. It is harder on the state and federal levels of course. But even there, others who share your problems with certain regulations can work with you to change them.

Good luck.

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Response to jody (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:49 PM

143. When you quit with the ad-hominem attacks on liberals and liberal ideas

seems like a good time for him to take your advice to quit with the ad hominem attacks.

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Response to jody (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:05 PM

164. Re: your number 2.

How is a large corporation "under attack from those who demand jobs?"

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Response to morningfog (Reply #164)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:39 PM

167. That's a figure of speech to describe the present situation. You might choose other words to

 

to describe it.

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Response to jody (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:26 PM

136. You belong to the party of "I Got Mine, Screw You".

People CAN wind up with huge financial problems in spite of making good, responsible decisions in life. Only an insane person or a RW hatemonger thinks otherwise.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #136)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:34 PM

139. I don't want my taxes being used to pay off the gambling debts of another. Apparently you do so go

 

to Las Vegas and use your money to spread cheer among the many who gambled and lost.

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Response to jody (Reply #139)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 06:14 PM

148. Another right-wing talking point that devoid of facts or empathy.

Take your Ayn Rand talking points to somewhere appropriate. This is a board for those who are at least liberals in view and you clearly aren't a liberal.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #148)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 06:20 PM

149. Apparently you do approve govt. taking your money and paying the gambling debts of others.

 

Great that the Democratic Party has room for both of us, that is if you are a member of the Party as am I.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:47 PM

142. Anti-union too

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Response to jody (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:08 PM

17. Where do you propose that new graduates with a mountain of debt and no assets

get the money to start up a business??

You ARE aware that it takes MONEY, right? Let me guess - you want them to borrow it from their parents, or get a job and EARN the money?

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:10 PM

21. I'm very much looking forward to hearing his response to your post.

The fact is I think it would be very hard to get a bank to take a chance on someone who is already way over their head in student loan debt.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:24 PM

26. Perhaps those students chose a degree that has little value, i.e. they made a bad decision.

 

That's the nice about our nation, people can make decisions that are wrong, but that in no way obligates society to pay the bill for that bad decision.

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Response to jody (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:26 PM

29. You sound just like a libertarian. Admit it, you love Atlas Shrugged.

Sorry I'll take John Rawls and his vision of a just society over Ayn Rand's dream any day. And once again you dodged the question. Where do you propose people get the money to start their businesses.

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Response to jody (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:45 PM

73. Nice way to avoid the question.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #73)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:50 PM

75. What question interests you? nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #75)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:33 PM

98. Where do you propose young people get money for

starting a business if they can't find a job in the first place?

I notice you still haven't answered that basic question. I'll be waiting for your response.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #98)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:06 AM

100. I've answered that question. Small Business Center will help. nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #100)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 04:40 PM

131. Someone in this thread replied to your post on that...

and said that they have had experience with Small Business Center and that they don't provide enough help, certainly not enough to make your suggestion viable.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #131)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:05 PM

133. That's been my experience, however Obama touts the Small Business Administration. Recently he

 

invited about 16 small business owners to the White House for discussion but all those people were part of the 20% or so who survived the first two years.

Why didn't he invite a dozen or so people who tried to start a small business and failed quickly and find out why they failed?

I've worked with SBA centers for several years and always been disappointed with their lack of qualifications.

Moreover people in their area who want to start a business often don't know they exist.

Myth or legend blame it on a faulty memory but the following story from another era has a message:

In WWII a meeting was held among crews and aircraft designers to find ways to reduce losses during missions.

The discussion centered on how to redesign the places on an aircraft that had been hit but survived to make it back to the base.

The group was mostly unanimous that the damaged areas on aircraft that made it back to England should be reinforced.

That is until the last request for questions prompted the following from some kid pilot.

He asked, shouldn't we redesign the areas that were not damaged on returning planes because that's probably where damage occurred that caused the plane to crash.

There was silence in the room and things supposedly turned our quite differently.

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Response to jody (Reply #100)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:34 PM

138. They're giving away free money??



All they do is show people how to write a business plan and fill out bank loan applications.

The banks then laugh at them. "You want a loan but you don't have any assets or a steady paycheck??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!"

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #138)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:38 PM

140. If you have a problem with that, then write Obama.

 

President Obama Signs Small Business Jobs Act - Learn What's In It
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/09/27/president-obama-signs-small-business-jobs-act-learn-whats-it

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Response to jody (Reply #75)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:50 PM

144. your signature line is recommending a conservative pipe dream

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Response to jody (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:31 PM

97. So, what do you have to say to the many graduates of VETERINARY

SCHOOL, a valuable medical profession, who cannot find jobs because, in this economy, nobody has money to care for their beloved pets and/or livestock??

Tough luck - you made a "bad decision"???

You are a disgusting, sick person. Young people are told ad nauseum by the RW and libertarian crowd that they aren't going to get anywhere in life and deserve no respect OR EMPLOYMENT if they don't get a decent education. Then when they get that education and there are no jobs like they were told when they entered school, you say tough luck????

You make me

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #97)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:09 AM

101. Even vets aren't find work?

You would think they would always be in demand, but I guess if people can't afford to take themselves to the doctor they can't afford to take their pets.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #97)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:24 AM

102. Yes, they chose the wrong degree. nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #102)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:23 PM

135. It was the right degree when they got into vet school.

Becoming a veterinarian is a LONG, DIFFICULT path.

You are on the wrong website. You are completely devoid of common sense and compassion.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #135)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:42 PM

141. Your statements ignore the facts. There are many jobs for veterinarians that do not involve

 

hands on treating animals.

If a vet doesn't want to leave a particular area, then it's quite possible there are no jobs locally but that's true for many degrees.

Any vet looking for a job should among other places visit https://www.usajobs.gov/

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 03:13 AM

105. They borrow it from their parents, of course.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:17 PM

163. we should just borrow the money from out parents

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:54 PM

157. You are wrong. Boomers has the highest per capital business startup rate of any american

generation in history.

Good ideas that are nurtured to reality properly have major impact, regardless of their origin. Apple was started up in Steve Job's parents garage, by to jobless techies and a somewhat slippery marketer (Jobs). Hewlett-Packard was started up in one of the founder's garage. Henry Ford started Ford Motor company from nothing. One of the wealthiest people in my state started off as a Carpenter, doing odd jobs before starting to build businesses that made him hundreds of millions of dollars before his death, and his family billionaires. Money is not the most important driver, although money allows a person to pay bills, in the end, a lot of change boils down to whether a person wants to make a difference and are willing to endure some discomfort to accomplish a goal.

Your problem isn't your generation as much as it a lack of imagination. There are many problems that your generation will have to either finish solving, or originate solutions for. You can either be a leader in that effort, or be "hired" help that works at the whim of your masters.

I am willing to bet that your Boomer parents will respect you a lot if they see you out in their garage or tool shed working on an idea that you passionately believe in.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #157)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:00 PM

158. My "boomers didn't start business" was a general comment.

Jody claimed that everyone who can't find a job should go start a business. The facts are the vast majority of people aren't going to be business owners for various reasons. The vast majority of boomers were not business owners. Most of them worked for the business owners, but they were able to get good jobs with good benefits. That is much harder today.

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Response to jody (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:28 PM

31. It would be a lot easier for anybody to do that if this country had a national health plan. nt

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Response to raccoon (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 06:07 PM

147. +1,000.

Pretty much part of the reason why there IS no National Health Plan.

It'd be an employEEs market, not an employERs market.

They could no longer cry "HEALTH CARE COSTS!!"

They could no longer practice ageism.

They could no longer rely on people accepting shitty pay for years.

They'd have competition from someone not in their "Big Club" . . . something they hate with a passion.

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Response to jody (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:05 PM

56. Very few people can start businesses, even if they know what they want to do.

I did have 2 business of my own.

I suck at running a business.

I wrote some damn good software back in my day. Just could not run the business.

I would bet very few people could run a business to just support themselves. Even if all they did was mow yards.

If I had had any children, I would have told them to become a union plumber, electrician or some trade like that.
You can just about always find work.

Why Union. Well the training you get is the best in the world. I believe a good plumber or electrician, HVAC person will always have a pay check.

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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:09 PM

57. Understand re new business. Did you ask your areas Small Business Center for help? If yes were they

 

useful.

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Response to jody (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 02:07 PM

129. A little late, I never knew of such places. My problems were getting set up for visa cards and such

I was really a little early with what I was trying to do. A line to the internet was $5,000 a month for 56k circuit.

No one understood anything to do with "on line" stuff, financial people figure it was like 900 phone services.

Oh well the past is the past.

I am just looking forward to retiring and learning how to garden so I can feed myself.\

Being 64 with no savings is not fun, but I built my 600 sq ft home by myself and own it free and clear, so me and my cats and dog can survive until the vehicle from the morgue drives up.

I just wished it was easier for the younger ones coming along.


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Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #129)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 02:24 PM

130. I believe small business start-ups or growth can make major contributions to breaking out of the

 

recession.

President Obama also believes that, see:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/president-obama-announces-new-small-business-lending-initiatives

I've worked with several SBA centers and always been disappointed with their inactivity in reaching out to those who want to start their first business.

The second disappointment is the lack of qualifications among the SBA center staff.

Third, Obama met with about 16 small business owners but they are from the 20% or so business ventures that succeeded.

I wish Obama would meet with some of the 80% or so small business start-ups that fail and find out what went wrong.

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Response to jody (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:30 AM

103. I tried, and it's really, REALLY slow.

It's nothing to be lived on.

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Response to sakabatou (Reply #103)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:32 AM

104. Well clearly you just didn't work hard enough and made bad life decisions.

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Response to sakabatou (Reply #103)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 08:26 AM

109. Outstanding! I wish more would try to start a business. They would find how difficult it is and gain

 

some respect for entrepreneurs like you from whom they now demand a job.

I don't believe that will happen.

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Response to jody (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:38 AM

110. Why haven't you been banned, yet, for posting this RW garbage?

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Response to jody (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:42 AM

117. Easier said than done, and without a safety net, very risky

Most businesses fail, then what do you do? Kids getting out of school aren't usually as adventurous as people think, most want some security and a decent life. Its very hard to jump into the business world without connections or experience, and expect to do anything but lose.

Another aspect of this, I started a business in town that was well researched and planned, and my wife has run ever since. It did fine for three years, then the whole competitive environment changed, then the recession hit. We should have closed it in the fourth year when it stopped making money, but it wasn't my decision to make by then, and now it struggles along. It makes a little bit, but averaged out it amounts to a wage of about 35 cents an hour. I'd say this is just a fluke, but I know a large number of small business owners who are in the same boat; the only reason a lot of businesses are still open is that someone else in the household has a secure wage-paying job to keep afloat.

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Response to jody (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:57 AM

118. And this start up cash and audience for their product is going to come frommm, where?

Do they have a product or service that someone else isn't already doing for cheaper?

Where's their luck against astronomical odds?

The average small businessperson makes just above poverty. Only 1 in 10 survive their first year. Among those, only one out of ten make it to five years.

This is what we're proposing to re-build the economy around? A whim and a prayer?

Faith is for churches, not an economy.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #118)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:54 PM

122. If someone can't start for the reasons you give, then she/he should thank the owners of a business

 

who might be able to give them a job as the OP demands.

Those owners clearly had the right stuff to deal with the factors you list.

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Response to jody (Reply #122)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:52 PM

145. many business owners didn't start their businesses

and many business owners haven't created jobs, but eliminated them upon coming into their position or ownership.

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Response to jody (Reply #122)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:17 PM

156. Ugh

Real world capitalism doesn't work the way libertarian tards think it does. It works like the game of Monopoly. By its very nature there must be winners and losers and the majority will be losers. The winners usually succeed by some combination of effort, skill, privilege, and luck. Usually it takes all four. However, once a company becomes huge it then has the upper hand. Once it can afford to set up factories outside US soil and pay its workers slave wages it can really destroy the competition. With deep pockets it can cannibalize its competitors by buying up their assets for dirt cheap when they're losing out, much like in the game of Monopoly.

If you really think about it most small businesses don't truly generate wealth. If you try to start a restaurant in a poor neighborhood with no middle class, where exactly is the money you want to pay the people you hire going to come from? It has to come from people with disposable income who can afford the luxury of eating out? Where does this money have to come from? It has to come from other employers, either people in skilled professions (lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc..) who either work on a contract basis or people hired by big firms. The big firms with the deep pockets are the real source of the wealth, along with the educational institutions that teach the skills. The little restaurants and mom-and-pop shops do not create the wealth. They simply feed off it and spread it more widely in the local economy. In the end it's the big firms that control most of the economy. Without them America would become a third world slum. Mom and pop shops simply wouldn't be able to exist. That's just reality.

But the thing is the massive firms are dependent on our laws and infrastructure, paid through taxes. So I think Government has both the right and the sufficient leverage to insist that large companies that want to do business have some obligation to keep wealth circulation by actually hiring people and paying good wages so their employees have money to spend at shops and restaurants to keep them in business. The idea that everyone can just start a small business and magically grow money for themselves in a shitty economy where the big firms are all cutting wages and gutting workers such that nobody has anything to spend is shear idiocy.

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Response to jody (Reply #6)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #126)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 01:41 PM

127. Have you tried to start a small business? If yes did you survive or go bankrupt? Perhaps you didn't

 

try and now join others in demanding businesses give you a job.

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Response to devilgrrl (Reply #126)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 04:43 PM

132. Seriously, how is Jody not banned.

Their posts are nothing but Cato Institute talking points.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:34 PM

7. This is the worst time to be starting out since the Great Depression.

The only difference is our economy isn't as weak as it was back then. Our current economic problems are the result of the greed of the richest Americans of older generations. Jobs are getting outsourced to Communist China, India and other third world countries where they can get away with paying people near slave wages and have them work in deplorable conditions. What is left is crappy retail jobs that we have to compete with older more experienced workers that only pay minimum wage.
Look at what happened in Freeport, Illinois, an entire town devastated by the greed of Bane. The economic and trade policies are killing any chance we have for a future, and most of us are too young to have voted for the people that passed them.

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Response to Chisox08 (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:40 PM

10. Exactly. I wasn't even born when Regan was elected both times and...

I wasn't old enough to vote for any of his successes. Those 4 presidents, including Clinton to a lesser extent, helped create our current weak economy and most of my generation had nothing to do with it, but we are the ones paying the price. We are the ones who are hearing a major political party discuss getting rid of Social Security and Medicare, not the Boomers. The Boomers got their retirement programs and rightly so. Once again, give us the same opportunities as our parents generations. Give us decent job prospects, and don't you dare touch our Medicare or SS, hell the way things are going that may be all we have when we get older.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 03:48 AM

108. Many of us boomers are very likely to get screwed.

In fact, the boomers who had it easy were the early boomers--the ones born from '46 to '52 or '53. The number of babies increased so rapidly that there was a huge jump in births between '52 and when I was born in '55 and my cousins in '57. There were too many kids and not enough of anything. And I mean anything.

When you talk about boomers, your're really talking about the early ones. They're retiring now, and they will probably get their social security and medicare. The people just before them will be okay, too. My aunt is one of them. She was born in the late '30s, but the small number of people born just after her in the depression will do okay.

I really do feel sorry for people coming out now, though. I cannot believe that amount that you folks paid for college. Even state schools, I went to one, are unbelievably expensive. And thanks to some of our democratic bretheren, you can't discharge your indebtedness in bankruptcy even if you've been trying to pay it down for several years. I'd be happy to support a change in the bankruptcy laws for you folks.

What I think would help you folks would be to overthrow Milton Friendman, or what people think Milton Friendman said, because you are pitted unfairly against the rest of the world which doesn't have the costs you do. I support following a more mercantilist policy because that's what every one else in the world does. No one else tries to throw away its young people. What are we doing it?

My parents both grew up in the depression. At least then, people recognized that there was a problem and the president tried to do something about it. I know that the WPA and the CCC weren't exactly resume enhancers, but they gave people young and old something to do--they gave a feeling of self worth. Frankly, we had low immigration and corporations had to hire those who were here. They couldn't go all over the world looking for someone with four unrelated skills and get away with whining when they couldn't find that ideal person. They couldn't import cheap goods, either. Some people blame the tariffs and immigration restrictions for the depression, but I think that they helped unemployed people here think that if there was a job, they had chance at it. Now, I'm not sure that young people here do have a chance. The big corps want cheap workers and that's what both parties want. It hurts educated young people and those young people who work with their hands.

There is one food processor in my home area who will not hire anyone who isn't Hispanic and it is the biggest employer in the rural area, and the farmers refuse to hire healthy young white people to help with the mechanical harvesting of the crops. I knew farm labor and food processing aren't desirable, but they help pay the bills and help people get a start. There are also quite a few office jobs that are only open to Hispanics and there is no place for the locals to learn Spanish. You can at least get a recommendation for working hard and being cooperative. It is causing a real social problem in my home area that is so bad, that I don't want to have to live there when the time comes to take care of my mom. People really won't talk to each other because only a few are benefiting. Neither Republicans nor Democrats, even the teachers who are very much burdened with trying to teach children who don't speak English, will talk about it openly. I don't blame the Hispanics, who are mostly Mexican with some Hondurans, because conditions in their countries aren't good, but it is making real problems in my community. I know that it can't be the only place where there is this discrimination.

Well, I'm sorry to burden you with my issues. I guess my point is that I feel for you, and there are bills that I would support that might help you. We really have an emergency in this country, but nobody seems to care. Maybe if the young, the old and the in between can find common ground we can get these idiot politicians to think of the people who live here. I fear that there will be severe social and political ramifications if young people like you can't get a start. We're wasting an entire generation of our countryman, and it just isn't right.

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Response to Chisox08 (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:31 PM

35. Thank you. Leveraged buyouts are to blame.

Guys like Romney borrowed money to buy a company putting up the company's assets as collateral. They then dismantled the company, sold it piece by piece, took the profit in bonuses for themselves and left some of the creditors hanging, paid off some of them with whatever was left from the asset sale and set up shop in China or wherever.

These rich guys sold out their fellow Americans. They started this during the late 1970s or 1980s.

We are now at a point where our young people have no futures and can't find jobs. The jobs are in China and India and elsewhere -- and they don't pay wages on which you can live in the US.

It is a dreadful situation. And to top it off, the people who gained from the leveraged buy-outs, the very rich ghouls who sold out American don't want to pay a fair share of the taxes to pay for the military that protects THEIR INTERESTS, not ours.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:40 PM

11. I agree with you 100%.

Yeah, and I've noticed, btw, that these attacks on younger generations seem to be coming from the right-wing for the most part.....doesn't mean they don't come from the left every once in a while, but it seems that 90% of the morons whining about how 'lazy' we younger people supposedly are definitely conservatives.

I can see where you're coming from, by the way; I was laid off in '08, and haven't been able to get back to work since. And due to certain circumstances in my situation, it's pretty unlikely I'll be able to hold a job that involves more than the smallest amount of physical labor & exertion(this includes being on my feet for more than 2-3 hours at a time, btw).....and in fact, that alone makes me a little more hesitant to even think about applying; no company wants to hire a worker, only to discover that they can't keep up with expectations, no matter how diligent they may indeed be.

And some right-wingers would call me lazy & useless because of that.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:42 PM

12. This is true. And we sure as hell don't want to work at Walmart.

 

We want a job market with variety, from which we can pick and choose based on pay, benefits, and likability.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:01 PM

15. Nervy of them, expecting jobs to exist.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:10 PM

20. "Are there no poor farms?" - Republicans

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:13 PM

22. I feel your pain....I can't stand hearing how the Boomers were indulged. This one wasn't.


Lots of them weren't.

I think every generation is lucky in some ways, not so much in other ways.

True it is that it's WAY harder to get a good job now than in some previous decades.

Best wishes to you!

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:31 PM

36. As a parent myself,

born in 1962, living in England, growing up in the 70s, was no picnic either.
My mother was a lone parent struggling to raise two children on a mere pittance.
When I left school in 1979, Margaret Thatcher became our prime minister.
She kinda balled the industries up and I found it extremely difficult to get a job.

I have a son aged 27, he is a qualified chef and is finding it difficult to find a suitable job.

Also most courses that I would like to take so that I can get back to work after raising my
own family, are very expensive. I am a lone parent and I am sick of people telling me
that its a disgrace to bring children up on benefits. And thats coming from older folk.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:31 PM

37. What you say is true with

a variety of reasons why. Most importantly, things have changed and will never go back to the way they were.

In the seventies when I started out a college degree was absolutely necessary for certain professions, but
many companies offered on the job training. A friend in Cedar Rapids, Ia. applied for a position in the factory
of a major defense contractor. She was a H.S. graduate and after evaluating her, placed her in the buying
department. She now has a high paying management position running an important department. Great
pension blah, blah, blah. That would NEVER happen today.

There also wasn't the nepotism we see today.
Some kid graduating from Wharton with a father/mother working on Wall Street is going to be guaranteed
a high paying job just through their parents connections. Many of these kids are not especially brilliant but
the "it's not what you know but who you know " applies today more than ever. Look at Jenna Bush and
Luke Russert both with cushy jobs at NBC.

Even professions like Law and Medicine that guaranteed a successful future no longer can be depended on.
Working for the large corps are probably going to find you spending your life in a cubicle with little opportunity
for upward mobility.

I know this sounds cliche, but discover what you love and start doing it. The money and opportunity
will come. While the older generation had a much easier time finding employment, many people spent
their lives in jobs they hated. They stayed for the security and the pension, but many were miserable
and if given the opportunity may have made other choices.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:46 PM

42. It is a different world in some ways but the same in others.

When I came out of College in the 70's, many employers thought we were all drug users. It was hard because of the economy at that point. I thanked God I had done what my Mom said to do and minor in Business, it saved my neck during that time. I took a job I didn't want in newspaper ad sales to pay the bills and get some experience. I had to live at home, it paid minimum wage plus some commission and it wasn't enough to pay my student loans and live. When the economy got better I used it to get a job with an ad agency and then with a group of radio stations. Not where I intended to go when I was in school but it was a good living.
Mid career I went to work in Higher Ed which I really enjoyed until I took early retirement in 2011.

In my work with young people like you, I found that it takes a little extra effort to convince them that there are only two places we start at the top digging a post hole and painting a barn (sorry farm references from my youth). Expectations of living like their parents right away. It just doesn't happen and sometimes you have to do things "beneath you" to pay the bills. I know you are drowning in debt, that is something as a country we have to deal with. Education should not be a privilege it should be a right. My husband and I worked for over 20 years to pay for his PhD, it is not fun but it is reality.

Take a deep breath, try to lose the negativity if you can. Take a resume with you everywhere you go, tell EVERYONE you are looking and what you might enjoy doing. You honestly never know where the job will come from.

Keep the faith, you will find something, it might not be right for you, but it will be right for the time....

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Response to redstatebluegirl (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:11 AM

114. +1

 

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:55 PM

48. I feel for you.

I got out of college right when Reagan was elected and there were NO jobs anywhere. Especially not in my post industrial former steel town. After months of looking for work and getting nothing, it was insulting to have it implied that personal laziness was the problem rather than the economy.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:57 PM

50. AMEN

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)


Response to otohara (Reply #52)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:05 PM

55. Sorry to say, but your son is the exception not the rule.

You mention that they think they are too smart for labor type jobs? I don't' believe you. If there were decent paying labor jobs the majority of my generation would be happy to take them. The fact is most of our manufacturing jobs are sent overseas. What remains are minimum wage entry level jobs where new graduates have to compete with experienced workers who recently got laid off. Guess who wins that competition? Oh, and the majority of young people don't wear silly outfits at least not when they are job hunting. I'm sorry, but your son is the exception not the rule so don't blame an entire generation.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #55)


Response to otohara (Reply #65)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:35 PM

67. There are thousands more who are out there every day trying to make it.

Sure he isn't alone, but neither are the ones who are trying their hardest to make it.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #67)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:45 PM

72. Yes, Yes, I Know

God damn, I've wanted to get this out of my system for months now.
Please don't lecture me. You seem to be okay with speaking for an entire generation.

I'm sick about his choices!

He was supposed to be a teacher. He is extremely bright - an excellent writer.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #67)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 06:18 PM

92. I hear you

My son and his wife are 23. They both work 2 jobs each. I admire that.

We've talked about the difference between my young adult days and their's. It wasn't always easy. Massive lay-offs in the 70s and into the 80s were painful, but you usually could find another full-time job somewhere else.

Today, not so. You're lucky to find a part-time job, and if you do, it's not a livable wage.

My daughter-in-law sometimes has to work split shifts. A couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the afternoon.

They time each employee's bathroom breaks. At the end of the week they total those minutes. They show the employees how much time they wasted. They then add the dollar amount to show how much they are stealing from the company! She's so afraid to take a bathroom break. What the hell is that? I think it's criminal, but that's me.

While times started to get rough in my early working days, I never, ever had to endure anything like the youth of today endures.

I'm very proud of your generation. I'm proud of my family. They were out there getting people to vote this past November, and they're already talking about 2014. Neither are political, but they know that if they don't work toward a better future, no one will do it for them.

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Response to otohara (Reply #65)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:45 AM

111. Uh, given his education he has a RIGHT to expect a good "cushy" job!

I hate this fucking reactionary meme that we Millennials are spoiled brats who "expect good jobs to fall into our laps". It's BS used to shame us into accepting the "New Reality" of low-pay McJobs, even for those of us with lots of schooling. Fuck that!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #111)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:46 AM

116. I hope you meant to put a sarcasm tag

 

on that.

Having a college education really doesn't mean anything. Having a college degree in the field a person/employer is looking for does. I listed a gov't civilian job for an electrical engineer three times and didn't get any qualified applicants because it started below $60K.

You can have a PhD in English but if all of the employers are looking for engineers, you will be unemployed or at a McJob.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #116)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:05 PM

119. An electrical engineer below 60k? And you wonder WHY you got no interest?

That's a job that commands 60-75k easily. What do you think this is, 1999? What's with the scrimping on pay? Just because you CAN?

Let me ask you something: how exactly do you (or really, ANYone in management) expect workers to continue to survive in an economy that expects them to consume to continue that economy even though they're making the same real dollar wage as they did in 1979 but putting forth twice the productivity? Are they just supposed to go into debt to make do?

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #119)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:42 PM

120. That's funny

 

that you think I control the grade of the civilian position that is authorized.

I hate to break this to you but gov't supervisors do not get to arbitrarily set the grade of the position being listed. We were looking for an entry-level engineer. The position had a higher target grade but that was the highest I could offer.

I'm a EE phD so I know what it pays. When I entered in 1991, I was paid about $25K. It rose quickly, but expecting to start at the top (or even the middle) is arrogant (stupid?).

If an entry-level engineer can't survive on $50-60K, they have made (and are making) some very poor choices.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:41 AM

115. No he is not

 

We see it all of the time.

My son was on that path so i told him we were not going to help him with college. He hadn't really tried during high school and I told him that, after graduation, if he was not in college, he had 3 months to get out. All of a sudden he realized he was going to have to take responsibility for his life, looked into what degrees were and were expected to be in demand over the next decade. He got a job at minimum and saved all summer and has been paying for his education. He really pulled his life together and is on a good track.

On the other hand, his two friends are going to college (one private and one public) with their parents paying for it. One is failing Econ for the second time but insists he is going to start a business and hire my son right away. The other is scraping by with barely a 2.0 but doesn't care because he is focusing on socializing.

Other examples: waitress at local diner--started majoring in Geology, switched to Communications and is almost finished but has no idea what kind of job she can get with it. Waiter at local Texas Roadhouse-- majoring in business (about to graduate) but has no idea what jobs that will get him. Waitress at local Champps-3rd year as communications major--has mo idea what kind of job she can get.

Why spend all of that money (unless you are rich and can afford to just blow it) on a degree that you have no idea where it can lead you?

I'll try to find the chart, but in the past 25 years, the most popular academic majors have changed. Engineering, computer science, and other sciences has been declining while degrees like communications have been rising. Think that might have anything to do with the decrease in jobs in the graduate's field?

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #115)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 01:36 PM

125. No Engineering because of the Math and Physics

American students are terrified of Math and Science. I saw it over and over again during my time in Higher Ed. They come in from high school, sometimes good ones, and need remedial Math and cannot pass a hard science course to save their souls. Not their fault, k-12 is so pressured to give them good grades and graduate them, teach to the test ext. this is what you get.

We cannot compete globally if we do not pressure the K-12 schools to up the ante in Math and Science. It is bad enough they don't teach them to write...but those two classes will stall any chance of a high paying job and force them to communications as a major waste of time.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #115)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:24 PM

168. I don't think that most people are educated about jobs

As far as what jobs are out there and what they really entail and how to get them. All high schools should have a required course about that, complete with several job shadowing experiences.

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Response to Nikia (Reply #168)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:37 PM

169. Anyone who is researching colleges

 

should be researching jobs as well, unless they are rich enough that getting a job afterwards doesn't matter.

If they have the ability to research and get into college, they have the ability to think 4 years ahead.

They should definitely do it before declaring a major.

When I counselled freshmen or prospective majors to our department, I always asked them what they wanted to do long-term. If they didn't know, I told them to go figure it out and then come talk to me afterwards.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #169)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:59 PM

170. The internet has made job research easier, but that knowledge is limited in many career areas

Most "jobs" books are pretty vague.
Part of the reason that people go into the careers of friends and relatives is that they don't know much about anything else.
Some college career centers are better than others about having more information available. Some professors can be helpful but some know little outside the academic bubble. Some colleges are more career oriented in their programs, but others less so.
As an adviser, why don't you tell the long term undecideds about what recent alumni are doing, how to get in contact with them or learn more about those careers, and if there is anything that should be doing to increase their chances about gaining employment in that field?

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Response to otohara (Reply #52)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:16 PM

58. IMO it's not your fault. Problem is K-12 schools don't prepare students for jobs and universities

 

don't prepare graduates for the few jobs available in the white or gray collar market.

Had lunch recently with an Army Command Sergeant Major and asked his opinion about young troops today.

He replied "They don't have a burning fire in their belly to succeed?"

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Response to jody (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:19 PM

60. Damn, preparing good little workers seems to be all most K-12 schools do these days.

But I guess that would be good little Wal-Mart and other service sector workers.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #60)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:24 PM

61. Probably correct and teaching to the national/state tests in reading and math seem to dumb down the

 

K-12 courses so the very lowest performing students are the focus of teachers.

That's led to several cheating scandals.

Parents are lucky if their children can qualify for magnet schools particularly those that specialize in science and mathematics.

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Response to jody (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:42 PM

69. His Best School Was The Private K-12

when he went to public high school, it was a breeze thanks to the chic chic private school. Graduated top of his class.
The college is where he found this life style.

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Response to otohara (Reply #52)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:29 PM

63. otohara, I have a 26 year old

EXACTLY like your son. Burning Man is the high light of his year. He attended one of
the best colleges in the country and is happy to tell me it was a waste of his time and
my money. He and his friends have rejected society and believe there will be a collapse
of sorts and that we are going through some sort of major leap in evolution.
As long as he supports himself I respect his choice.

My slightly older son, less educated went to work for a small company that he has
helped build into a multi-million dollar competitor in a growing industry. He has built
a career for himself that he can do anything from opening his own business to accepting
one of the many offers he gets from other firms.

They couldn't be more different in the choices they have made.

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Response to EmeraldCityGrl (Reply #63)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:38 PM

68. I'm Having A Hard Time Respecting

his choice.

It makes me cry...a lot.

Thanks.

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Response to otohara (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:52 PM

121. Unfortunately

 

the cost of higher education has long since past the point of the benefits outweighing the investment. If you spend more than $30K on a bachelor's degree you are wasting your money. Spending $30K - $50K - $70K+ per year for a college education is foolish.

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Response to otohara (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 07:02 PM

150. I fail to see how this has anything to do with Millenials

Your son's inspiration for doing what he's doing almost certainly came in part from baby boomers talking about how they did the exact same thing in the 60's and 70's and how wonderful it was. And those people were inspired by traveling musicians from the 20's and 30's. And so on...

Every generation has people who do this. And every generation seems to have people who frown upon it.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:18 PM

59. white_wolf: Listen to me. I'm old and I work at a law firm.

Make good grades in law school -- especially in Lawyering I and II because good writing will get you into the better law firms. Volunteer for stuff.

I'm in Denver. Apart from the usual associates and partners, we employ young law school graduates as Document Review Clerks for $20 an hour -- these men and women aren't expected to do this for long -- one young attorney we have is waiting for his assignment in Foreign Service -- but there are some unscrupulous law firms in town that fire all their legal assistants and paralegals and hire attorneys in their stead and then pay those attorneys minimum wage -- lower pay than what they were paying staff. There are so many attorneys and so few positions in Denver that only those law school grads with an excellent resume will get hired by first tier law firms.

Usually when I speak to a young person wondering whether or not to go to law school, I always tell them to learn a trade instead. Craftsmen are few and far between and can usually name their price.

The one thing I've noticed about Millennials is that they don't take the crap we Baby Boomers did when we were young. I don't know how many jobs I've had where I "white-knuckled" my way through years of abuse just to collect a paycheck. Millennials are way more ballsy. For that, I admire them immensely.

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Response to kaiden (Reply #59)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:32 PM

64. Thank you for the advice....

I'll be 100% honest if I could find else anything I wanted to do, I would not even consider law school. I know a lot of students go because they are unsure of what they want to do, but I am not. I know as sure I know anything that I want to be a lawyer. I love the law, I love studying it and practicing law is the only thing I want to do. I'll be honest I'm not sure what area of law I want to work, but I know I want to work in it. Your post mentioned students "wondering" about law school. I am not wondering, because I truly do want to be a lawyer and I understand the odds are I won't come out making a lot of money, but I am willing to work my way up.

Your last paragraph made me smile a bit. I've always toyed with the idea of what I would do if once I graduated I were to be offered a job at one of the large NYC law firms like Cravath. I would probably take it, but part of me wonders how long I would stay there. I've read plenty of horror stories of the abuses that often take place at some of those huge law firms. Your comment brought that to mind.

Finally, thank you for replying. I always like discussing law school and the legal market with current lawyers. It's always good to get an insider's perspective on things so thank you very much. I appreciate it and if you have anything else to share I would love to hear that as well.

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Response to kaiden (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:22 PM

134. I do too.

They are the self love to say no to absusive low pay and the corporate toilet. Maybe they will end this BS culture of status and can create, in this world, a live that transcends money lust.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:27 PM

62. K&R, I've got a job interview tonight! Thanks for posting!

Ever since the Romney 47% comments video the right wing has been blaring with "The Gimme Generation" and complaints about dependency etc.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #62)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:34 PM

66. Sadly it seems that meme has infected DU as well. As you can see from some of the posters here.

You'd think a supposedly liberal board would be beyond such sweeping generalizations, but I guess not. I tried to be careful in my OP to make it clear that I am not attacking all Boomers.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #66)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:17 PM

80. Let Me Coddle You

poor honey!

You have no problem speaking for an entire generation, and can't accept certain truths.
My 60 year old college educated husband just took a job for $12.00. Not too many in your group willing to take
a $12.00 an hour job.

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Response to otohara (Reply #80)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:34 PM

83. No, simply because your son made poor choices you choose to blame an entire generation.

Everyone I know in my age group are hard working and trying to make it either in school, the job market, or both. My anecdotal evidence is just as good as yours, which isn't very. Admittedly, I am being a bit harsh in this post. But for what little it's worth I do know what it's like to see someone you care about throw away an opportunity. My older brother sounds a lot like your son. He had plenty of opportunities and turned them down due to the fact that he didn't want work for them. He could have gotten a full-ride football or baseball scholarship if he had been willing to work at it, my parents helped him with college and he didn't even bother going to classes. So, I do get your frustration and perhaps I shouldn't have lectured you above.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #83)


Response to otohara (Reply #85)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:46 PM

86. I would, but you see I already have one and I'm in college full time.

Nice try though.

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Response to otohara (Reply #85)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 03:18 AM

106. There aren't any.

Your generation fucked the economy up by repeatedly electing compassionate conservatives.

My, generational warfare sucks, doesn't it?

Edited to add: And I'm not a millennial. I'm between Gen X and millennials and I've worked since I was 14. Just to head off what I know is coming.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #106)


Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:44 PM

70. It's a different world

Funny thing is, I'm getting to see this through my own eyes, and my boomer parent's eyes. She thinks we're all lazy and that money is just out there for the taking(too much Wayne Dyer, not enough basic economics).

She's beginning to see it though- a world where upward mobility is a myth, the 1% always win and we all cheer for it. Except the "lazy" and "ungrateful" lefties like myself.

Nearly 50% of the businesses in my community have shut their doors, and the ones that replace them don't last a year.

We'll be Mexico before we know it.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:44 PM

71. Dear whiite-wolf

K&R

I'm a boomer. And if you will tell me exactly who is saying those disgustingly mean things to you, I will go right over and knock their heads off, OK? Maybe that will jar some sense into their heads.


First, you know they are republicons', because only they are heartless and judgmental. Are you in a situation that you can't get away from them? Get you some ear plugs. Seriously. You are educated, and you are NOT lazy. You are an important viable human being full of energy and ready to work at the drop of a dime.

Second, if you do not live with those people, stay away from the MOs. Don't be near them again. They are not nice people. They are NOT your friends. They only like kicking a mule when he's down. Be strong and try to not listen to it.

Keep looking for a job. Make it your job to find a job. After you get one, be the best worker you can be. Be on time, go beyond the call of duty. Be willing to work overtime. Stay well. Save some money for a rainy day. College is not totally out of the picture for you, you do know that? You will be a knockout in English Comp, after writing this OP!

I believe in you. Got that? Now buck up and leave those nay-sayers behind, OK?

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:45 PM

74. What kind of job are you looking for? What kind of work do you

want to do, and what are your qualifications? In general terms, you're right. Jobs are very hard to come by. And yet, I'm seeing millennials getting good jobs in the Twin Cities in MN, where I live. I know a bunch of them as relatives of my wife, and their friends.

So, give me a short resume and let me know what you're looking for, where, and some stuff about you. I'll see what I can find for you.

What job are you looking for?

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:52 PM

76. Yup. New "Lost Generation"?

 

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:07 PM

78. Don't buy into and then regurgitate generational bullshit to me.

I'm not buying your assertion that everybody who is older than you thinks you're being coddled and aren't working because you're lazy.

This is unfair to all of us. Knock it off NOW.

The fact is that most of us realize the economy for the bottom 99% is in the toilet. We Boomers, especially, look at the mountain of debt you had to accumulate to get educated beyond high school and burger flipping because we and your own parents were never paid enough to send you to school and we're outraged.

Don't take your self criticism and project it onto us. We're not stupid and we know what's going on. We know jobs are damned hard to come by and when you get one, it likely won't pay all the bills. We know health insurance is a total joke because between copays and ridiculously high deductibles, people who are paying off that mountain of student debt don't go to a doctor unless they're dying because they can't afford it.

So take your resentment of Gen X, Gen Y and the two cohorts of Boomers and shove it where the sun never shines.

It's counterproductive, it's unfair, and it's dead wrong.

Try working with us, instead.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #78)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:33 PM

82. Did you even read my post?

I made it very clear that I was only taking about a certain segment of Boomers, not the entire generation. In case you missed it : "To be clear this isn't attack on all Boomers, only the ones who have the nerve to sit around and call my generation lazy or complain about how coddled we've been."

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Response to Warpy (Reply #78)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 03:22 AM

107. Did you look upthread?

There are people on a progressive message board telling him to quit whining and get a job.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:14 PM

79. My heart goes out to all younger people, the world is much crueler. It's not right. nt

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:17 PM

81. Most annoying Millennial trait: thinking everyone wants to hear about being a Millennial.




I kid, i kid!

Sort of.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #81)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:39 PM

84. If you don't like the thread then don't read it.

This one is no worse than all the speculation about the 2016 presidential run.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #84)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:48 PM

87. Oh, fuck a duck, I agree with you there. 100%.

Anyway, I'm joking. Sort of. Every generation should expect a bit o' razzing from yer elders.

Plus, remember, there's one thing Millennials and Boomers seem to usually agree on, and that's how much you hate Gen X.

-Signed, Gen X.




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Response to white_wolf (Reply #84)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:51 PM

88. Odd Your DU Symbol is Anonymous

what's that all about?

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Response to otohara (Reply #88)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:53 PM

89. It's actually in support of Occupy Wall Street.

Though, you are right that Anonymous did use it first.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #89)


Response to otohara (Reply #90)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 06:02 PM

91. What's wrong with supporting Occupy Wall Street? n/t

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Response to otohara (Reply #90)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 05:58 PM

146. Are you for real?

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #81)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:48 AM

112. That's a Boomer trait.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #112)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:54 PM

123. Yes

You guys have a lot in common.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 06:54 PM

94. I agree, and the older generation always does this

Don't worry you'll be old one day and be doing it too. Kids these days have it easy! Except not. Baby boomers, of which I am one, did not have to live with this bubble thing - they had to live with a war - oh wait, kids these days do too - at least they can't be drafted. And the housing bubble thing is a new ball game. It is not the 50s, which is what right wingers want to pretend.

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Response to treestar (Reply #94)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 06:58 PM

95. Your post made me smile.

I do firmly believe that if we would bring back manufacturing this country would improve a lot. For some reason around the 1990's we drank the service industry kool-aid and we need to stop.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #95)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 01:00 PM

124. Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back until someone stands up to Wal-Mart & China. nt

 

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 08:04 PM

96. It's double tough on them.

They have grown up with the knowledge of climate change. They see what is happening, what they have been born into and many have decided that rather than be another cog in the engine creating the conditions killing wildlife and harming the weakest among us they want something more.
I've met many who consider it more honorable to live a life on the streets than serve Monsanto. Who think feeding the homeless is more rewarding than fancy cars and stock options. Who consider our natural world more important and more worth bailing out than banks.
So maybe they won't make millions off the backs of the poor and destruction of our ecosystem and be considered successful but they do make a huge difference to peoples lives in ways most of the wealthy consider a waste of time.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 10:08 PM

154. Twice the experience for half the compensation with a quarter of the benefits...

Color me enthusiastic!

Right there with you, brother/sister!

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)


Response to Greenidgypsy (Reply #160)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:06 PM

161. Did you vote for Obama?

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 07:07 PM

162. I dunno I could kind of go for some coddling. I got jobs.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:19 PM

165. a lot of the perception is due to things like

the spike in parents who actually think calling their childrens' college professors or bosses to check up on them as if they are still in elementary school is ok. how much this really happens and how much is overblown and anectdotal i don't know. fair or not your generation's stereotype began when whe your parents put "baby on board" signs in their car windows when you were born.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:28 PM

166. I don't know of anyone who wants to be coddled, other than corporations and the rich.

And I don't know of anyone dissing the Millennials except the media, who are big divide-and-conquer fans, because they're largely tools of guess who? Corporations and the rich.

It sucks to be an under/un-employed Millennial with a shit-ton of college debt. It sucks to be an under/un-employed Boomer with a mortage and/or medical bills. All of the generations (and I detest pigeonholing people into age groups) who don't have decent jobs want them.

The enemy is not other people in the same hole. The enemy is the excavators of said hole, which is not us.

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Response to white_wolf (Original post)

Sat Dec 8, 2012, 06:17 PM

171. I felt the same way when I was young

I had a masters degree and could not get anything better than a shit paying job. Plus I had a mountain of student loan debt. I wound up taking on soul sucking work that I absolutely hated just to survive.

Ultimately I wound up in a field that was completely alien to everything I prepared myself for. But somewhere along the way I found my niche and found a way to make the most of my situation. And now I am really happy and secure. But for the longest time, I was not. Now I am at a point in my career where I am most interested in mentoring and grooming the next generation and am thrilled when I come across someone who wants to learn my business and skills. There are many professionals, like me, who really want to pass along opportunity and experience to our younger counterparts.

It's tough being young. It always has been. But there are plenty of people out there who truly want to help you succeed.

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