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Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:05 AM

Nothing that Bob Costas said is untrue and he has a right to say it even if it weren't.

If FOX "News" can get billions to lie to the nation under the guise of news, help justify an illegal war that kills thousands Costas can say what he said without being smeared for it. Why is it that pro-gun folks from the NRA can say what they want about guns but people for sane gun laws and enforcement are smeared for their statements? This kind of stuff is partly what is wrong with the country right now.

106 replies, 7710 views

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Arrow 106 replies Author Time Post
Reply Nothing that Bob Costas said is untrue and he has a right to say it even if it weren't. (Original post)
kelliekat44 Dec 2012 OP
dballance Dec 2012 #1
Walk away Dec 2012 #2
MrDiaz Dec 2012 #4
wake.up.america Dec 2012 #9
MrDiaz Dec 2012 #10
Plucketeer Dec 2012 #14
MrDiaz Dec 2012 #18
JEB Dec 2012 #40
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #42
JEB Dec 2012 #47
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #61
JEB Dec 2012 #68
Big Gay Al Dec 2012 #73
rDigital Dec 2012 #79
MrDiaz Dec 2012 #51
JEB Dec 2012 #54
Whovian Dec 2012 #60
MrDiaz Dec 2012 #63
Whovian Dec 2012 #67
MrDiaz Dec 2012 #69
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #27
rDigital Dec 2012 #78
Plucketeer Dec 2012 #96
spin Dec 2012 #103
Plucketeer Dec 2012 #104
spin Dec 2012 #106
Fla_Democrat Dec 2012 #25
rDigital Dec 2012 #80
barbtries Dec 2012 #13
sadbear Dec 2012 #15
dotymed Dec 2012 #21
rDigital Dec 2012 #82
rDigital Dec 2012 #81
Plucketeer Dec 2012 #16
MrDiaz Dec 2012 #20
barbtries Dec 2012 #30
neverforget Dec 2012 #70
rDigital Dec 2012 #85
neverforget Dec 2012 #99
rDigital Dec 2012 #100
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #17
rDigital Dec 2012 #86
morningfog Dec 2012 #22
heaven05 Dec 2012 #34
Patiod Dec 2012 #38
justanidea Dec 2012 #29
hack89 Dec 2012 #57
rurallib Dec 2012 #3
Flashmann Dec 2012 #5
aikoaiko Dec 2012 #6
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #7
Hoyt Dec 2012 #23
Dr. Strange Dec 2012 #46
lonestarnot Dec 2012 #8
bluemarkers Dec 2012 #11
brooklynite Dec 2012 #12
DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #24
1gobluedem Dec 2012 #28
TDale313 Dec 2012 #32
rDigital Dec 2012 #87
Johnny2X2X Dec 2012 #35
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #19
barbtries Dec 2012 #33
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #43
barbtries Dec 2012 #45
petronius Dec 2012 #37
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #44
petronius Dec 2012 #48
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #59
petronius Dec 2012 #62
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #64
free420 Dec 2012 #26
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #39
ErikJ Dec 2012 #83
rDigital Dec 2012 #88
99Forever Dec 2012 #31
Big Gay Al Dec 2012 #52
99Forever Dec 2012 #53
Big Gay Al Dec 2012 #71
rDigital Dec 2012 #89
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #36
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #41
Big Gay Al Dec 2012 #49
JEB Dec 2012 #50
doc03 Dec 2012 #55
WaitWut Dec 2012 #56
Wait Wut Dec 2012 #66
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #74
rDigital Dec 2012 #90
Wait Wut Dec 2012 #97
MichaelSoE Dec 2012 #58
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #75
Skittles Dec 2012 #65
Big Gay Al Dec 2012 #72
Skittles Dec 2012 #76
Recursion Dec 2012 #101
HeavenTim Dec 2012 #77
ErikJ Dec 2012 #84
TexasBushwhacker Dec 2012 #91
rDigital Dec 2012 #92
TexasBushwhacker Dec 2012 #93
rDigital Dec 2012 #94
Angleae Dec 2012 #95
99Forever Dec 2012 #98
Recursion Dec 2012 #102
mfcorey1 Dec 2012 #105

Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:22 AM

1. +1000

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:22 AM

2. Most people are in complete agreement with Bob. It doesn't really matter what Fox has to say.

The country is moving back to the Left and sanity. We are ending wars and resistant to starting new ones, objecting to the sabre rattling of our allies and turning away from the gun culture. It has just begun but you can feel it in the harping desperation of the 2nd Amendments extremists. The grown ups are tuning out their rhetoric and moving away from their extreme views. The pendulum swings slowly at first.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:27 AM

4. i agree

 

that he has the right to say what he wants, but i think he is wrong. I also think you are wrong, we have had surging gun sales in this country in the past 6 or 7 years. This man shot his girlfriend 9 times, he is like 6'2 and 260lbs, he could have strangled her, stabbed her, beat her, he obviously wanted her dead, let's not forget OJ Simpson did not need a gun to do what he did!

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:07 AM

9. I get a headache thinking about the NRA and this "need" and God-given right to have a gun.

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Response to wake.up.america (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:14 AM

10. i have a gun because

 

the criminals who commit crime have them, until you can think of a REAL way to get guns out of the hands of criminals, I do not believe you should be trying to get them out of law-abiding citizens hands. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE. If you banned guns the law abiding citizens would be forced to turn them in or get rid of them or whatever, but the criminals would not, because they are criminals...breaking the law of the land is kinda what they do!

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:32 AM

14. So....

when a bad guy sticks a gun in your face or ribs, he's gonna allow you a time out so you can fumble and reach for your piece? I was awakend at 2 in the morning once while stationed overseas. What I can still recall plainly that day was a really big flashlight in my face and the indelible image of a giant fucking nickel-plated revolver flashing in the flashlight's beam. Even if I HAD had a gun under my pillow - how would things have improved for me as I grappled for it???
Face it. Unless you're prepared to walk around with your piece IN HAND, it's not gonna be much of a deterrent. And if you DO do that, look for lots of trouble and shakedowns as you go about your day.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:48 AM

18. so you think

 

that you are better off without a weapon to defend yourself when the situation is presented. You are fine with a society that would allow criminals to have weapons but not citizens because the citizens would not be able to properly use it...but the criminals can...and you are cool with that

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:02 AM

40. When I think of all the fascist gun nuts in America,

I know that sooner or later one of these delusional fools will scrape up enough fear to work themselves into a frenzy and actually try to use their dangerous toys. Mostly they just like to fondle their guns (it makes them feel better) and bitch about OJ. Harmless insecure people living in fear for the most part.

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Response to JEB (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:12 AM

42. Very few of those people out there...

The ones you describe.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #42)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:34 AM

47. Ever go to agun show?

That is mostly what I see attending. And the people willing to make money via their fears.

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Response to JEB (Reply #47)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:32 PM

61. As a percentage of gun owners, a very small percentage.

You go to lots of gun shows then?

I have more than a dozen guns altogether and I've NEVER been to a gun show.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #61)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:24 PM

68. Probably true but

but the NRA and the vocal blind supporters of the NRA's partisan inspired positions are the public face of gun owners. I frequent gun shows for some of the other assorted items that occasionally show up. They have become less and less interesting with the Camo crew selling assault rifles and NRA conspiracy theories taking much of the space. All the guns I have came from family or were purchased directly from their owners. The NRA does not represent the best interests of the majority of gun owners. It presents a wedge issue that divides the country. Costas was right to point out that guns have devastating power and should not be available to everyone.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #61)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:03 AM

73. Me too

I don't have 2 dozen guns, I've got maybe half a dozen, but I rarely go to gun shows. I can probably count how many I've been to on one hand, and I'm 56. In fact, the last 2 gun shows I was at, I was working for a friend who owns a gun store. So I wasn't even looking for anything then.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #61)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:14 AM

79. I'm not a gun show fan either. nt

 

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Response to JEB (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:52 AM

51. that is

 

a stereotype in which you guys like to spread. How many people do you REALLY see running around showing their guns off? What makes you think that a gun suddenly makes someone feel better? It will be interesting to see your response because i know plenty of gun owners who never do this. The ONLY thing a gun makes me feel or any other gun owner i know of is the feeling of safety, because I know I have a better statistical chance of defending myself if I am attacked.

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #51)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:04 PM

54. I never said anything about anybody showing off guns.

I only said that guns were mainly a way of comforting people who live in fear...with which you seem to agree. Statistics?

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #51)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:31 PM

60. Man, you make me wonder how in the hell I survived to 60 without A GUN?

 

I've been drawn on twice. Both times I feel I was lucky that I didn't have a gun because if I went for mine the person holding the gun would have pulled the trigger.

The real world isn't a TV crime show or John Wayne movie.

I have also found that if you keep a big-ass dog in your home you will most likely not have people breaking into your home negating violence for all parties.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #60)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:31 PM

63. OK

 

So you believe that you would be safer with no weapon if you are being attacked with someone who has one...that is what your saying?

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #63)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:36 PM

67. Sorry, was I not speaking clearly?

 

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Response to Whovian (Reply #67)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:29 PM

69. Alright

 

Cool, just wanted to confirm that u are in favor of a society that allows the criminals to have guns and law abiding citizens unable to do so.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:23 AM

27. +1

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:12 AM

78. Nirvana Fallacy.

 

Just because perfect conditions for self-defense don't exist doesn't mean that you can't effectively defend yourself. Thousands of people do it every day in this country. An armed chance is far better than an unarmed chance when facing a deadly threat.

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Response to rDigital (Reply #78)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:36 PM

96. Last night - on the Young Turks - you should watch it....

They told the number of football players in a given strata that admitted to be "packin'". It was an astounding number - to me anyways. After a year or so, NONE of these jocks had sucessfully defended themselves (or anyone else) with their guns. NONE! They DID however precipitate bodily harm to THEMSELVES and loved ones! Yeah - I'll take my chances without one. I don't let the MSM paranoia drive my fears.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:59 AM

103. Several people I know who have carry permits have stopped an attack from a person armed ...

with a knife. In all cases the attack ended when my friends showed they were armed. The attacker probably realized that bringing a knife to a gun fight is a bad plan. A concealed handgun can easily stop a large rapist who plans to attack a small female.

Obviously the best tactic to avoid being in a dangerous situation is to not be there. That can involve using something called "situational awareness." Most people walk around with a cell phone glued to their ear and consequently are targets for predators. Merely being aware of your surroundings and alert may cause a dangerous individual to pick a different victim.

Of course situational awareness is no 100% guarantee against being a victim. If you find yourself facing an armed individual it wise to realize that in most cases your attacker is using the weapon to cause you to comply with his desires. If all he wants is your money it is best to simply give him your wallet. You may be a martial arts expert with the skill necessary to disarm him or you may be carrying your own legal weapon, however you should be aware that replacing your health is far more difficult than replacing your money, your ID and your credit cards.

But in a few instances you may realize that your attacker is unstable and extremely aggressive and there is an excellent chance that he plans to send you to the hospital for an extended stay or put you six feet under even after you give up your wallet. In such a situation it is worth using your martial arts skills or your weapon as you have little to lose by doing so.

I do see your point about having your weapon in your hand. I have a concealed weapons permit and I carry a snub nosed .38 caliber revolver in my pants pocket. Fortunately I have never had a reason to draw my weapon but there have been a couple of times where my situational awareness alerted me and I found myself in a potentially dangerous situation. I placed my hand in my pocket on the revolver and was ready to draw it and shoot an attacker if TRULY necessary.

One time I was in a store late at night and I thought the two other guys in the store at the same time could have been planning to rob the clerk. (This store was in a somewhat dangerous area of Tampa and had been robbed in the past.)

I backed up couple of yards and observed the situation with my hand in my pocket. One of the two guys was at the counter and asked me if I wished to check out before him. I politely refused. He then discovered he had left his wallet in his car and left to get it. He seemed somewhat surprised that I didn't check out during the four or five minutes it took him to return. He decided to pay for his purchases and left with his buddy. I stayed around for another ten minutes talking to the clerk and then left. I often stopped at that store on my way to work on the graveyard shift to buy a pack of cigars and frequently had a friendly conversation with the clerk. That night I was late to work by fifteen minutes but since I was the shift supervisor I didn't get any grief for not being on time.

Now I am not a cop or a vigilante and I don't go looking for trouble. Had the two guys actually pulled weapons and robbed the store I would have simply observed and memorized important details about their appearances to tell to the police. If they would have turned violent, I would have drawn my weapon and attempted to stop them. (I personally do not plan to ever pull my revolver unless I have a legitimate reason to use it and it will come out smoking. To show that you have a weapon can stop an attack but can also escalate the situation unnecessarily.)











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Response to spin (Reply #103)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 11:35 AM

104. You can theorize any scenario

But lets say you (and or others in a well-armed society) manage to draw your guns in response to an event. Every bullet that flys is gonna find THE bad guy? THAT happens only on the big screen. Real life is sadly, much different.

You know - what's deflating to ANY argument you can try to make is the facts and figures from other developed nations with much less prevalence of guns in the hands of their citizens. That and the ever-so-conveniently-ignored part of the 2nd amendment detailing a WELL ORGANIZED MILITIA There's nothing "organized" about folks walking around with a piece in their pocket or on their hip.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #104)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 07:15 PM

106. A "WELL ORGANIZED MILITIA" ??? ...

Text of the Second Amendment:


A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


We can waste a lot of electrons debating the meaning of the wording of the Second Amendment but in my opinion it would be wisest to discuss the actual wording and the definition of the words at the time it was written.

For example I will post an excerpt from a pro-gun attorney on this issue:



The Second Amendment: The Framers' Intentions

***snip***

The above analysis leads us finally to the term "well regulated." What did these two words mean at the time of ratification? Were they commonly used to refer to a governmental bureaucracy as we know it today, with countless rules and regulations and inspectors, or something quite different? We begin this analysis by examining how the term "regulate" was used elsewhere in the Constitution. In every other instance where the term "regulate" is used, or regulations are referred to, the Constitution specifies who is to do the regulating and what is being "regulated." However, in the Second Amendment, the Framers chose only to use the term "well regulated" to describe a militia and chose not to define who or what would regulate it.

It is also important to note that the Framers' chose to use the indefinite article "a" to refer to the militia, rather than the definite article "the." This choice suggests that the Framers were not referring to any particular well regulated militia but, instead, only to the concept that well regulated militias, made up of citizens bearing arms, were necessary to secure a free State. Thus, the Framers chose not to explicitly define who, or what, would regulate the militias, nor what such regulation would consist of, nor how the regulation was to be accomplished.

This comparison of the Framers' use of the term "well regulated" in the Second Amendment, and the words "regulate" and "regulation" elsewhere in the Constitution, clarifies the meaning of that term in reference to its object, namely, the Militia. There is no doubt the Framers understood that the term "militia" had multiple meanings. First, the Framers understood all of the people to be part of the unorganized militia. The unorganized militia members, "the people," had the right to keep and bear arms. They could, individually, or in concert, "well regulate" themselves; that is, they could train to shoot accurately and to learn the basics of military tactics.

This concept of the people's self-regulation, that is, non-governmental regulation, is also in keeping with the limited grant of power to Congress "for calling forth" the militia for only certain, limited purposes, to "provide for" the militia only certain limited control and equipment, and the limited grant of power to the President regarding the militia, who only serves as Commander in Chief of that portion of the militia called into the actual service of the nation. The "well regula" of the militia set forth in the Second Amendment was apart from that control over the militia exercised by Congress and the President, which extended only to that part of the militia called into actual service of the Union. Thus, "well regula" referred to something else. Since the fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, it would seem the words "well regulated" referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia(s) have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government's standing army.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm


Obviously you can counter by quoting an attorney who supports your side of the issue. This might make a great topic for a new post in this group and could lead to a lot of interesting debate.

You stated:


But lets say you (and or others in a well-armed society) manage to draw your guns in response to an event. Every bullet that flys is gonna find THE bad guy? THAT happens only on the big screen. Real life is sadly, much different.


What you said is logical and therefore you should have little problem finding news stories that discuss civilians who were legally carrying a firearm in public and accidentally shot an innocent bystander. I will await your results.

You also stated:


You know - what's deflating to ANY argument you can try to make is the facts and figures from other developed nations with much less prevalence of guns in the hands of their citizens.


This is an argument often used by your side of the issue but in my opinion it has several major problems.

1) Obviously in a nation with very few firearms you will have very few deaths caused by these weapons. In the United States we have an estimated 300,000,000 firearms owned by 80,000,000 individuals. How many exist in England and Wales?


Firearm Certificates in England and Wales 2009/10 SUMMARY
There were 141,775 firearm certificates on issue on 31 March 2010, an increase of two per cent compared with 138,728 on issue at the end of March 2009.
580,653 shotgun certificates were on issue on 31 March 2010, one per cent more than the 574,946 on issue at the end of March 2009.
Around one per cent of new applications for firearm certificates and two per cent of new applications for shotgun certificates were refused in 2009/10.
There were 3,182 registered firearm dealers on 31 March 2010, an increase of 12 per cent on last year, and 57 per cent higher than on 31 March 2006. The main reason for this increase is thought to be due to new legislation requiring persons who deal in air weapons to be registered as firearms dealers which was introduced in October 2007.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/police-research/hosb0511/hosb0511?view=Binary


Therefore the U.S. has over 300 times the amount of firearms in the hands of civilians. We also have a much higher percentage of handguns. It is not surprising that more people died because of firearms in our nation than the UK.

I will agree that if we could reduce the number of firearms to the level seen in the UK we would have far fewer deaths caused by guns. This is largely impossible because of ...

2) Comparing nations is somewhat foolish as there are usually significant differences in culture. In the U.S. we have a strong gun culture based on our history and our views of ourselves. Other nations do not and therefore have been willing to accept strong restrictions on gun ownership that would never be accepted in many areas of our nation.

3) Our Constitution grants civilians the right to own firearms. Our Supreme Court has upheld this right but has allowed some restriction. Citizens in many other nations have no such right.

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights.
In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. In dicta, the Court listed many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession as being consistent with the Second Amendment. In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


3) Civilians in other many nations have far more trust in their government than here in the U.S. In other nations citizens have often been willing to turn in their weapons than they would here. The registration and/or confiscation of firearms would prove a daunting task and could lead to a revolt or the breakup of our nation. It might be possible but the cost would be enormous and bloodshed would result. The disadvantages of an effort to confiscate firearms would outweigh the advantages.


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Response to wake.up.america (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:20 AM

25. Actually, the God-given right

is to self defense. The gun just makes it a little easier for the 98lb woman to defend herself from the 230lb man.









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Response to Fla_Democrat (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:17 AM

80. Precisely. nt

 

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:29 AM

13. the gun made it way too easy.

just pull the trigger over and over. just pull the trigger. anything else would be a lot harder, and he might even have had time to stop and think about what he was doing before she was dead.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:33 AM

15. There's an emotional and physical detachment from firing a gun

that's not there when you strangle or stab someone multiple times. You're right. A gun makes it much too easy.

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Response to sadbear (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:00 AM

21. I totally agree.

My main argument for gun ownership is to protect ourselves from the dangerous and illegal police state we have become. I do not propose having shoot outs with law enforcement or anyone. I do believe that we should be able to protect our way of life on a semi-level playing field instead of being fish in a barrel.
My Son was reading from his "facts of the day" from his smart phone yesterday. Americans are like (I don't remember the exact number) 1400 times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:18 AM

82. A breath of fresh air. Thank you for your contribution to his thread. nt

 

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Response to sadbear (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:17 AM

81. Are you sure about that. Do you have experience in these matters? nt

 

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Response to barbtries (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:38 AM

16. Yup!

Try to imagine these assaults with bow and arrow, or Ninja throwing stars, or a thong like David used to take down Goliath! Heh - these dirty Harry types are driven by movies - and it's NOTHING like the movies when the lead begins to fly!

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Response to barbtries (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:50 AM

20. OJ simpson

 

didn't seem to stop and think about it!

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:35 AM

30. well you got me there.

but then we never find out about the murders that DIDN'T happen. I could easily be one of those, but then we'll never know.

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:58 PM

70. There are 169 murders per week with guns or 8775 in 2010

33 murders per week with knives or 1704 in 2010

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

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Response to neverforget (Reply #70)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:23 AM

85. More perspective.

 

Russia has literally zero civilian handguns and their murder rate is almost 3x our murder rate (5.22 vs 14.18 per 100k population). People will use what is available. It's not the objects, it's the people doing the killing. A whole lot of them.

http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

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Response to rDigital (Reply #85)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 09:31 PM

99. An objects availability and its intended use must also be taken into account.

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Response to neverforget (Reply #99)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:47 PM

100. Good point. I appreciate the perspective. nt

 

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:39 AM

17. I think he is wrong also

People don't just go off and shoot someone unless they have major issues that have not been addressed. i also think he wanted her dead and would have made it happen one way or another.

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:07 AM

22. OJ!!! I just got NRA BINGO!

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:40 AM

34. yeah right

we've had surging gun sales because the poxnews watchers and the rest of the LIV's have been made afraid because they have been told the gay, kenyan, socialist POTUS is going to take their penises from them. Sane, law abiding citizens are entitled to have a legal weapon. Period. The rest need to go to a cave somewhere and stay there. 11 people shot, in one day, in Chicago. That's the right inherent in owning a gun? Also who cares if you're still angry about OJ. Not relevant here. He was found not guilty. Period. Oh and by the way, guns don't kill people, people kill people or something like that. Crazy mf's need to be denied the right to own guns. period. "if it don't fit, you got to acquit."

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Response to MrDiaz (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:48 AM

38. Surging gun sales a reaction to "Obama's gonna take our guns!" craziness

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Response to Walk away (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:35 AM

29. Gun sales are up more and more every year

 

Almost every time I go to the shooting range, I meet a first time gun owner.

20 years ago only a few states had concealed carry. Now 49 do.

Sorry but I don't see any trend of people "turning away from gun culture"

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Response to Walk away (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:19 PM

57. You haven't been paying attention

gun control is a smoking ruin in America. State after state has passed pro-gun legislation over the past 20 years - the fact that only one state presently bans concealed carry shows just how much the tide has changed.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:24 AM

3. comment on Costas: Remeber when he refused to sit in for Larry King

and do the fluff crap that King was doing? One thing about Costas compared to most of the so-called news people - he at least has some standards.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:29 AM

5. he at least has some standards

Yeah....Along with principles and journalistic integrity....Things a faux "journalist" wouldn't be slightly acquainted with....

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:30 AM

6. Anybody, Costas and Wayne Pierre alike, can be and are criticized for their views on gun control.

Is that really controversial?


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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:01 AM

7. I am wondering what the fallout will be for Costas

It won't be right away, but will be still have a prominent on the air role in 2-3 years? Impossible to to do anything but speculate, but we all remember the Dixie Chicks

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:07 AM

23. Love the DChicks because they told the truth, just like Costas. Will a bunch of right wingers turn

on Costas? Probably, but who cares.

I admire folks who stand up for what is right and put their incomes/career/celebritystatus on the line when doing so.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:30 AM

46. Or, keeping it in the context of sports...

we all remember what happened when Limbaugh gave his opinion of Donovan McNabb.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:02 AM

8. Millions! Killed millions!

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:16 AM

11. murder/suicide yesterday

Man shot his wife then himself. The wife called police thanksgiving weekend when she kicked him out - she said he had guns and had a temper - she felt unsafe.

http://www.wral.com/authorities-investigating-shooting-in-apex/11837829/

I'm not into guns, but I've always felt that guns are too easy. Too easy to pull the trigger, it's almost a detachment, just a flick of a finger. otoh, fists, knives, metal pipes, etc are more physical and maybe
I don't know, a person determined to kill seems to usually succeed though.

I was floored with Costas' opinion, agreed with it. Popped the corn waiting for the fox circus.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:20 AM

12. So Fox News is the standard you want people to live by?

Sorry, but I disagree. Costas was hired to discuss sports. He has the right to speak his mind when he's not on the clock, or if that's what he's asked to talk about.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:10 AM

24. "shut up and broadcast", eh? Strange company you find yourself in bed with. n/t

.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:28 AM

28. The situation concerned a sports figure

And part of it took place at a sports facility. Doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

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Response to 1gobluedem (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:38 AM

32. Agreed.

This was by far the biggest thing to happen in the Football world this week.

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Response to 1gobluedem (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:28 AM

87. His screed was beyond the pale and insulted millions of law abiding citizens. nt

 

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:45 AM

35. This was a sports story

It's not like he just starting talking about guns out of the blue. This was the biggest sports story of the weekend. An NFL player shot and killed his girl friend and himself. Guns were a part of that story.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:49 AM

19. I agree ! And

I have my firearms license but don't own gun.

I need DU to help me get Gun control off my favorite group. Don't how I got that on my profile. I can not find a way to change this. HELP PLEASE!!!!!

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:39 AM

33. i believe you can trash it,

i know i did. i think you just go to the group and look for the button that says, "trash this group."

hope that helps

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Response to barbtries (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:22 AM

43. if I do that

will I be able to see a post in the general discussion on a gun control if I do trash the group?

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:27 AM

45. yes.

for instance, i'm seeing and even posting in this thread.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:47 AM

37. That just shows which Group (as opposed to Forum) you've posted in

most frequently over the past 90 days - post 5 times in a different Group, and it will change. (Or just wait until those GC & RKBA posts are 90 days old)...

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Response to petronius (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:25 AM

44. I have done that already

so it seems the only way I can get the labeling on my profile forum favorite name changed is to trash the group.

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:42 AM

48. I don't think trashing will change it - you'll still have posted in that Group

And looking at your post history, it doesn't seem like you have 4 or more posts in any single Group other than GC & RKBA. If that label is troubling you, go drop 3 quick replies into E/E (you have 2 posts there already) and it will change...

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Response to petronius (Reply #48)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:27 PM

59. what is E/E?

I trashed RKBA but my profile still shows it is my favorite group...

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Response to riverbendviewgal (Reply #59)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:11 PM

62. Environment and Energy - it looks like you have two posts in that Group over the

past 90 days, so 3 more would make that one your new 'favorite' group. But it really doesn't matter which one you choose - as soon as you have more posts in any single group outside the main forums than you do in GC & RKBA, then that other group will become your favorite.

How about the Canada Group? http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1087

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Response to petronius (Reply #62)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:27 PM

64. thank you

I understand now what to do. Your paitience is appreciated.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:23 AM

26. I own a gun but...

keep it locked up in the back of the closet for more of a doomsday situation. I have no grand illusions of stopping a robber in the middle of the night. However I find that almost everyone I know who keeps a gun for "home protection" are just itching to shoot someone. Hell, they will even tell you. Same with concealed. People who conceal and carry want the shit to go down so they can use their gun. If I was to carry my gun I would want it to be seen and used as a deterrent. Criminals usually pray on the weak and most are gonna keep on walking if they see a gun strapped to your side... As for the law and finding sensible solutions there is still a lot we can do. Most people don't want all guns to be taken away but there is a line that needs to be drawn. If our Forefathers could have foreseen a fully automatic assault rifle with armor piercing bullets that can rip through a classroom of kids in less then a minute then our constitution would be much different.

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Response to free420 (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:50 AM

39. I have NEVER met a CPL holder that wants to use one in a fight.

Not one. I know at least 15 people with permits, and this is also an open carry state. None of them carry LOOKING for trouble. Finding such trouble is hazardous to your freedom, and even in a totally justified shooting, can cost you everything, your job, your home, etc.


"If our Forefathers could have foreseen a fully automatic assault rifle with armor piercing bullets that can rip through a classroom of kids in less then a minute then our constitution would be much different."

I don't suppose you can point to a single shooting where that occurred?

(By the way, getting shot with AP is generally less damaging than normal rounds, because the bullet will pass through without expanding, and will therefore do less damage because it won't impart as much energy in the body)

(also, there existed a 20 shot rifle the year the 2nd Amendment was ratified. Read of the lewis and clark expedition to see it used in the field. Girandoni Repeating Rifle)

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Response to free420 (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:21 AM

83. Guns used for self-offense 40 times more than for self-defense.

Maybe its Karma.

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #83)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:30 AM

88. That's some Major League Brady Campaign Shenanigans right there. nt

 

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:35 AM

31. I couldn't agree more.

I've had two good friends killed in gun "accidents." Mike Donnelly when we were junior high students and Mike Hammers, a work related close friend. I have never known a single person that has ever successfully "protected" themselves OR their property with a gun. Not one. Ever. Zero. That is the reality I have seen with my own eyes.

The NRA should be disbanded.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:55 AM

52. I couldn't disagree more

I've saved my life several times just by having a gun. And I'd much rather see the bad guys go away than have to pull the trigger on anyone.

The most fun I have, is target shooting. I don't hunt. I don't like to kill animals. I like to eat them, but I don't like killing.

I don't begrudge hunters their joy though. I see nothing wrong with hunting. In fact, I think the deer hunting season needs to be expanded. There's too damn many of them out there running into my car!!

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Response to Big Gay Al (Reply #52)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:16 PM

53. Disagree then.

Which should I put more credence into? An anonymous internet post or my life experience of 59 years?


Have a nice day, Big Gay Al.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #53)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:57 AM

71. It works both ways.

What should I believe? Your anonymous post, or my 56 years of life experience, over 30 of which I've carried firearms for self defense, off and on the job, US Army, security and law enforcement.

And a pleasant evening to you too.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #31)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:31 AM

89. Sorry to hear about your friends. : ( nt

 

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:46 AM

36. I get what you're trying to say...but re-read that thread title for grammar...

I'm not sure you're saying what you THINK you've said.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:03 AM

41. Agreed. BUT his bosses don't have to like it, him, or his future employment.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:49 AM

49. Bob Costas is a moron. But, he is entitled to his opinion, even if he's wrong.

I live in Michigan, I have a Michigan Concealed Pistol License. I've carried a firearm professionally and as a citizen for over 30 years. During that time, there have been dozens of times that just having a firearm sent a would be attacker the other direction. So far, I've had to draw my weapon maybe 5 or 6 times to defend myself. I've had to actually pull the trigger in one encounter, that was on the job. (Security guard, NOT police.)

Believe me when I tell you, no sane person EVER wants to take a human life. But, when the choice is your life or theirs, their is only one viable response. If this football player was as nuts as he sounds, it doesn't matter if he used a gun or not, the result would most likely have been the same. But, it's always the favorite anti-gun nut thing to blame the gun. Don't blame the poor bad guy, his mind was taken over by the gun. He's just another victim.

Victim? Bull manure. He was a coward and a bully.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:51 AM

50. It is upsetting to the masses

when a bit of cold reality intrudes into Sunday Night Football. Some of the wing nuts are more outraged at Costas for speaking the truth than they are outraged at the senseless violence.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:20 PM

55. I agree 1000% and don't care much for Bob Costas anyway n/t

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:16 PM

56. I know a lot of folks who own guns...

I choose not to own a one.

I call that freedom.

Costas is a troll, always has been, and he is a good one.

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Response to WaitWut (Reply #56)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:12 PM

66. Hi there.

Nice to meet you. I know a lot of folks who own guns...

...and I choose to own one.

I'm not sure I would label Costas a troll.

Bizarre third dimension thing going on here.

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Response to Wait Wut (Reply #66)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:07 AM

74. ...

this thread has opened a portal.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #74)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:32 AM

90. ROFL. nt

 

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #74)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:19 PM

97. That Mayan calendar thing might come true.

I always tell my husband that if I'm ever cloned the world would end.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:23 PM

58. A great quote from the character Louse (Bob's Burgers) I almost wet myself .....

"If you teach me to shoot, I bet I can teach you to regret teaching me to shoot."

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Response to MichaelSoE (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:08 AM

75. Lol, I love that show.

At first it was just because of the Home Movies connections, but it's grown on me on its own merits now.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:38 PM

65. gun nuts are fucking cowards

they just cannot handle the truth

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Response to Skittles (Reply #65)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 01:01 AM

72. Wanna bet

The truth is not the problem. The problem is all the lies and half truths spewed by the anti-gun zealots, who would disarm us, and set up all law abiding citizens so the criminals can ply their trade with impunity.

As a friend of mine once suggested, call for a cop, an ambulance and a pizza. Then wait and see who gets there first. At least I can have pizza waiting on the other two to arrive and clean up the mess.

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Response to Big Gay Al (Reply #72)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 02:55 AM

76. naw, the truth is the problem

and you don't seem to know the difference between a gun owner and a gun nut

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Response to Skittles (Reply #76)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:59 PM

101. I can't speak for Big Al, but the dishonesty of our party on guns has always appalled me

It's the only topic on which the Democratic party argues like Republicans: devoid of data, shaky at best on facts, and deliberately misleading.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:01 AM

77. wow

 

wonderful forum~ what can i do now. just have a look first~

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:23 AM

84. I like ODonnels quote: "You cant hit a homer without a bat".

or something like that.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:47 AM

91. He was quoting someone and he said NOTHING about gun laws

He just said if you think hand guns make you safer, you might want to reconsider and if Belcher didn't have a gun, there's a good chance he and the mother of his 3 month old child would still be alive. Could he have strangled her or used a knife? Of course. But those require touching the victim. There's something about a gun that just makes it so easy. Nothing is as quick or as lethal. Here's the stats from the FBI on murders by method. 1/2 to 2/3 are by firearms, more than all other methods combined. Same goes for suicide - 60% by firearm, all other methods combined - hanging, poisoning, falling, etc - 40%. Over 20K accidental shootings a year (not all fatal).

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #91)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 03:55 AM

92. Note that Russia has almost 3x our total homicide rate and ZERO legal civi firearms.

 

It's not the objects that kill other persons. It's the people.

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Response to rDigital (Reply #92)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:09 AM

93. Unless you have stats on methods this is meaningless

So how are Russians committing all these murders? Are they using illegal firearms mostly or other methods?

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #93)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:24 AM

94. Never looked into it, but the numbers speak for themselves. What does a law matter if

 

People don't follow it?

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 05:25 AM

95. His right to say it, when and where he did, is all determined by NBC.

It was NBC's time, NBC's equipment, NBC's broadcast channel, NBC's FCC airwave licence, and Costas is a NBC employee on NBC time. The government can't do anything to him but NBC can.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:23 PM

98. Does anyone who us now bitching...

... about "where" and "when" Costas spoke his mind about this SPORTS related issue, agree with what he had to say?



Hmmm?




Well?



Speak up.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:01 PM

102. "more and more domestic disputes ending in the ultimate tragedy" is untrue

The murder rate is at a 40 year low, as is the sub-rate of domestic murder.

So, that's one thing that's untrue.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Original post)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:01 PM

105. ITA !!!!!!! NT

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