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Mon Dec 3, 2012, 09:44 AM

 

My 30 pound dog was attacked by three unleashed pit bulls

While walking in a secluded area the three unleashed Putbulls charged my dog and started attacking, the owners were helpless to stop the dogs and I was nearly helpless. the one dog had my dog by the neck and would not let go ,my dog Milo was screaming bloody murder and shitting all himself.

One pitbull had a firm grip on my dogs neck and the others were trying to get at his legs. the owners and me were beating the dog in the face and it wasn't phasing it a bit , I looked right at the lady who was laying on the dog and said "I'm going to kill your dog now" as I drove my thumb into his eyesocket ,once my thumb was buried the dog jumped up and I snatch my dog away.
It appeared that I didn't kill the pitbull he just might have some severe I damage
I don't think I've ever felt that helpless ,my dog had a few moments of life left and I was barely able to get him back
The vet told me I was very lucky that when a dog his size gets in a large pits mouth you usually don't get your dog back.
I won't be taking walks in secluded areas any longer unless I have a knife on me, a simple 4 inch blade would've prevented this from getting as far as it did.
My wife and I were also bit , the police and animal control are all over the situation

Everybody please be careful out there, you don't expect the situation to happen but it unfolded so quickly I almost lost my dog

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Reply My 30 pound dog was attacked by three unleashed pit bulls (Original post)
Mangoman Dec 2012 OP
Panasonic Dec 2012 #1
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #5
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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 09:47 AM

1. Owners helpless? Unleashed?

 

Why didn't you call the police?

There has to be more to this story. Unleashed pitbulls is not a wise idea. These people should have at least been arrested and pay your dog's vet bills.

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Response to Panasonic (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 09:59 AM

5. The post says the police and animal control were involved.

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Response to Panasonic (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 09:59 AM

6. The police were called and animal control

 

The dogs are quarantined and the police are looking into it
the man will be going to small claims court At the very least

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:18 AM

15. Owners?

Or "the man"?

I'm confused by seemingly contradictory information in your posts. Were there multiple owners as you originally said or one man as indicated in the post I'm responding to?

If there were multiple owners for multiple unleashed pitbulls, to what do you attribute their being in the same secluded area at the same time?

Thanks for clarifying my questions.

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Response to Doremus (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:34 AM

21. Sorry for the confusion

 

There was a man and a lady
while my dog was on the ground being attacked the lady was laying on top of her dog that had my dog , and we were both trying to get my dog free while my wife and brother-in-law and the other dog owner were trying to keep the other two pits from getting in there, That is how my wife got bit

It was terribly chaotic

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 09:52 AM

2. Oh how terrifying!

I'm glad to hear that the best possible outcome happened. I've had to save a dog from a pit attack before myself. Similar scenario, latched onto the neck, choking the life out of my dog. I somehow managed to pry its jaws open. Happened over 10 years ago and I can remember the terror like it was yesterday.

I'm hopeful animal control will be able to locate the owners and punish them appropriately.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:42 AM

57. thank you for

placing the blame on the owners where it belongs. Those dogs should not have been off lead!!!! Any dog will pack and when they do that is when there is real trouble I have found. My pit mix got out one night to run play with the pit from two doors down who was being walked. They actually were playing ... but I still got him away with a command! I'm guessing there are local leash laws, and the owners need to be punished - I hope the dogs don't get a bad rap for their owners' irresponsible behavior.

And yes I am SO glad your dog is okay!!!!

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 09:55 AM

3. K&R as a warning - something terrifyingly similar occurred in our neighborhood. nt

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 09:57 AM

4. Pitbulls need borders. They should rarely be roaming free in an unconfined area.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:01 AM

7. it is good to be prepared with something for those dogs

 

Big aggressive pit bulls especially. There is spray you can get. "Halt" dog spray is one I have. Or a taser is another option. The spray works, I used it on a pit bull who was being aggressive and he immediatly turned tail and ran. He didn't like the face blast of the stuff, and I got him good in the nose with it.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:02 AM

8. My neighbors have two male unneutered pit bulls and they

let them run free (or the dogs dig out from under their dog run). Which means that I can't ever let my dogs (dachshunds) out in our own yard unless I check to see where the pits are first. It's ridiculous, and yes, we've talked to the neighbors about it. They've been trying to control them more (after telling us how "sweet" and harmless their stupid meathead dogs are), but the next time they're loose, we are calling county animal control.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:00 PM

68. Having seen my dachshund attacked at the beach

I know how frightening it is. Fortunately the dog that attacked him - not a pitbull - was afraid of the water, so scooping the dog up and running into the surf saved him.

People need to know their dogs, and if they are even a little aggressive with other dogs, keep them on a leash. Even in areas like the beach, where everyone wants to unleash their dog.

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Response to Patiod (Reply #68)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:08 PM

75. Poor wiener dog! Dachshunds are pretty tough characters themselves--

they are not always appropriately afraid of larger dogs (I've had one that thought he was ten feet tall and bulletproof), so I don't let mine loose for fear that they will rush up to larger dogs and start shit. In a vet's office or other public situation, I do not let mine even get close to other dogs--short leash, always.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:27 PM

89. Our neighbors two chesies attacked my old sick Wheaten in front of me last year

on our own property. I literally put myself in between them pounding them with my fists. My dog suffered massive blood loss. He died about two months later form everything but mostly from C. We always watched to make sure his dogs were not out because he did not control them as they had attacked our dog three times before on our property. He was someone who stole our Obama signs btw. Well they were hidden behind a bush and that was when the big attack came. I could not speak for a month literally as I was having nightmares also. Having this happen in front of you is horrifying. We made the neighbor pay for Vet bills and took photos of everything, blood pools, etc.... he then sold his house and dogs at auction and left town. Good riddens asshole I say.

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Response to glinda (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:44 PM

115. What an awful story. Yes, that is exactly what I am afraid of--

of not seeing my neighbor's dogs until it's too late. They've lately been running across the road to the neighboring ranch and harassing the cattle, which I predict won't end well (rancher won't put up with that shit for long). It's a damn shame that so many of us have to take major precautions just take dogs outside or go for a walk. I am sorry about your poor terrier.

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Response to glinda (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:34 PM

172. Aw, I love Wheatens

My dog is a Wheaten mix and there are several others in the area where we walk every day. All the Wheatens I've seen love people and mix very well with other dogs socially. I am lucky that in my area there are very few people who let their dogs roam free and the cops are right on top of it when it happens.

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Response to glinda (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:20 PM

205. He really loved those dogs---not.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:33 PM

99. 92% of al fatal attacks involve male dogs........

 

Last edited Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

94% are not neutered.

Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered1


http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

1 National Canine Research Foundation. Fatal dog attack studies. Retrieved July 14, 2009, from http://ncrf2004.tripod.com/id8.html


Please NOTE, Nat Canine research has moved.............

New site: http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/

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Response to kooljerk666 (Reply #99)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:45 PM

116. Yep, that is why I am particularly afraid. Now, these dogs

probably aren't vicious, everyone in my family has encountered them without a problem. But I don't understand why they are not neutered.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:05 PM

175. I had a neighbor like that once.

His pit bull was constantly loose. It showed up in my yard and went for my cat, which went for a tree and escaped. I went to the guy's house who owned the pit bull, and calmly explained that the next time his dog showed up in my yard, it would get a load of 00 buckshot in the head. The fellow took umbrage at that and threatened me.

He was a renter of that house. So I called the owner, who I knew fairly well. I explained the situation. The dog owner moved out with a UHaul truck the next day. It seems that the man's homeowner's insurance was subject to cancellation if a pit bull occupied the house.

I have absolutely zero tolerance for off-leash pit bulls. Zero. And I have a 12-gauge shotgun with five rounds of 00 buckshot in my house.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #175)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:21 PM

180. We also have two cats, we don't let them outside at all (two

other reasons besides the pits--coyotes, and rodents that carry plague and tularemia). Our neighbors are actually nice people, it's their adult son who lives with them who owns the dogs. My husband has taken the dogs back over to their house several times now and told them that we are afraid of what will happen if their dogs meet our dogs. Their response was to build a dog pen/run, and they have been getting better about not letting the dogs loose--but they still sometimes get out and run around at large. We carry pepper spray now when we take walks. Edit to add: I know my husband would lean more toward the firearm solution, because he's pretty sick of seeing those dogs, but I don't want that sort of trouble unless they actually do some harm.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #180)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:29 PM

182. Here in MN, our cats are all indoors. That incident happened in

California. Right now, there are no loose dogs on our block. There was a loose pit bull for a while some time back. I hear kids screaming from my basement, so I ran upstairs. That pit bull was menacing them on their bicycles, and one girl had fallen off and her knee was bleeding.

I grabbed the wooden baseball bat I keep in the corner by the front door, ran across the street and clubbed the pit bull at the base of the skull. Its owner showed up, too. He wasn't amused. He started up with yelling and cursing at me, but then realized that I was still holding the baseball bat. His dog wasn't dead, but it was unconscious. He carried it off. Another renter. He was gone by the end of the week, too. It turned out he was just there freeloading off the actual tenant of the house, who told him to get out.

Normally, I'm a quiet, peaceful guy, but I just cannot tolerate loose dogs that threaten people or other pets. I never have, and never will. I'll take whatever steps are needed to keep them from threatening or attacking anyone or anything again. Every time.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #182)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:45 PM

188. I don't blame you, especially in a situation involving children.

This isn't our first run-in with this breed, either. At our previous house, we lived across the street from a pit mix that used to scare the bejeezus out of me when it got loose--the owner was a single mom who clearly was not "alpha" enough to keep this dog under control.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #188)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:54 PM

191. The thing about pit bull owners, especially the ones

who seem to take pleasure in letting their dogs run loose, is that they're often not the nicest guys on the block. Unless you are confident that they will not attack you for attacking their dogs, it's best to call the cops, rather than to take things into your own hands. The police don't like loose pit bulls, either. The only reason I went out to deal with that one was the three kids it was menacing. I consider that an emergency, and knew that their fathers would have my back if the owner decided to be an asshole about me clubbing his dog.

I would never go after a pit bull bare-handed, though. I'm going to have a substantial weapon in my hand. Baseball bats are good. The base of the skull is good. A good blow there will either knock the dog out or kill it. I'm indifferent to which happens in a menacing case.

Guns aren't good in situations where there are other people around. In fact, they're almost useless in that situation. A club is better. That baseball bat is at the corner next to my front door for that reason.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #180)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:27 PM

208. I guess they are too lazy to walk

their dogs.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:06 AM

9. Yeah, I'm completely secure in my sexuality and manliness

That's why I get large, uncontrollable dogs that don't respect me and attack other people.

*eyeroll*

I had a much milder experience. Walking my 12lb pommie, a trio of larger dogs come up aggressive and snapping. I've got my dog up over my had and was kicking at the other dogs. The owner was a 90lb middle-aged asian woman, couldn't speak much english at all. No idea if she actually owned them or was just a dog walker or something.

My rule of thumb with pets: never own something you can't take in a fight. My toy dog wants to start something with me? Come at me, bro. I got your chew toy right here.

I don't object to a responsible owner having a serious dog, I just want him to be responsible. Same thing with powerful trucks, guns, and power tools. If you can't handle your business, you endanger me and now it's my business.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:12 AM

38. How is that not sexist and unnecessary?

 

My sister with the 70 pound pit would find it amusing.

I don't.

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Response to Eyes of the World (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:38 AM

52. Some of the best dog trainers I know are women

It is all about the respect the dog has for you, as owner. Unless, of course, there is something genetically wrong with your dog.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:58 PM

151. Rule #1) only own weapons that are under your operational control. Not semi-autonomous. n/t

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:09 AM

10. I always carry a .22 pistol with me when I walk the trail near my house.

You can't rely on people to be responsible pet owners.

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Response to Ganja Ninja (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:46 AM

61. Yep. I was going to mention something similar.

I've been jumped on by other DUers before over the fact that I have a CCW, but this is one of the reasons why. I frequently walk my dogs on trails along nearby rivers and creeks, and I've run into aggressive strays and unleashed dogs more than once. I've never had to actually shoot one, but I did have an off leash pit mix charge us on the trail one day and try to attack my dogs (only the fact that it was 3 on 1 kept the pit from doing any damage...every time it would focus on one of my dogs, the my other two would charge in to defend it). Just about the time I pulled my gun, the owner came running up and collared it. She got really damned pale when she spotted that gun in my hand. Her dog was only seconds away from being shot, and I told her as much.

FWIW, the first round in my revolver is a .38 birdshot shell, which won't usually kill a dog but will injure it enough to stop any attack (same story for vicious humans). It's also useful for removing rattlesnakes. The biggest bonus is the spread...you have to be fairly accurate with a single bullet, but birdshot spreads, giving you a wider (and less lethal) damage area. The sound of the bang, combined with the pain of the birdshot, will cause almost any dog to flee. Had I shot that dog, it probably would have survived. If you carry a .22 with you when you're hiking, you might want to think about something similar. If you're worried about safety, just learn to fire faster...in my gun, every cartridge after the first is a hollowpoint (the way I see it, if an animal takes a birdshot hit and STILL keeps coming, it means business, so a lethal shot is justified).

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:12 AM

11. How is poor Milo doing?

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Response to peacebird (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:22 AM

17. I rescued Milo when he was young

 

And now he acts like every day he is living the dream
it just crushes me that I feel like I let him down and couldn't protect him

I am also extremely pissed that the other dogs owners made me try to kill a dog with my bare hands ,which is traumatic in itself
I think I woke up every five minutes last night.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:55 AM

32. I cannot even imagine how horrible it must have been for you and Milo. He is a lucky puppy to have

you in his life.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:27 PM

90. my dogs would not let me protect them

a Rottweiler came charging at us, so I got between it and my dogs and my little 30 pound beagle just runs around me and starts mixing it up with the Rott. I am guessing the Rott was just playing or blustering, because Blake seemed to hold his own and they just separated after about thirty seconds of snarling and snapping. I hit the Rott about three times, with the heavy end of a pool cue, without seeming to have much effect, although it whined after I hit it in the back and that may be when they separated.

I think I like the spray idea better than a knife or gun. With a deadly weapon I would have killed that dog, and it would have been unnecessary. Heck, I was trying to kill it, or knock it out, with the pool cue. I did not pull my punches, except for the difficulty of trying to hit it and not my own dog who was right there in its face.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:14 AM

12. any off leash and unreliable dog is a bad idea

And frankly, dogs are just unreliable when their owners aren't right there to insure their safety as well as keep them out of trouble. I'm sick to death of assholes with their unleashed dogs rushing at me and my dog out on walks especially because my dog is a giant protective breed that is utterly fearless. I live in terror of my dog attacking and harming a dog that rushed us and tries to attack me or him... and for some crazy reason it's almost always small breed dogs that are that aggressive and stupid.

Dogs must be physically under control by their owners at all times anywhere where there might be other people or their pets and they should be just anywhere for the safety of the dog. Anyone that has an aggressive dog that can't be controlled by voice commands alone and is allowed to be off leash than said owner has no fucking business owning a dog. Doesn't matter a damn what breed it is.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:31 PM

158. You said it so well.

Fortunately in my neck of the woods, our animal control person enforces the leash law.
When loose animals show up in my unfenced property, I grab the camera and the phone.
While in the town it is illegal to shoot a firearm, people in the county will shoot loose dogs on their property,
a well known and acceptable fact. Rabies is a big deal around here.
I would never trust my own dog off leash, even tho he is well trained. Not worth the risk.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #158)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:20 PM

169. animal control is great here, too

And they're also VERY compassionate. They've gone after and trapped a few foxes that were reported to likely have mange and took them for treatment and released them back in their territory. They've gotten it so well under control there hasn't been a single mange infested fox in the area for several years now.

There just isn't any reason for an unreliable dog to be off leash outside an off leash dog park. People who care about the safety of their dogs don't let them wonder on their own. And people that have unreliable dogs or aggressive dogs should never be letting them off leash. Dogs can get plenty of exercise with no need to run free if one has even the slightest will to spend the time and effort and a bit of imagination in getting them their exercise. Stories of pets or people especially children being attacked by owners that can't or won't control or properly train their dogs just makes me livid.

I feel so bad for the OP and I'm so happy that their dog wasn't killed and hopefully it can fully recover. These things are just horrifying for both pets that are attacked and their loving owners and there just is absolutely no REASON for it to have happened at all. I hope the owners of these attacking dogs have the book thrown at them. Unfortunately, not much ever happens to these kinds of dog owners even when their dog attacks and harms a person - the retaliation is far more on the attacking dog when it is not their fault for doing what comes naturally to them and having never been trained how to behave properly.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:40 PM

173. Well said - I have one idiot neighbor who lets his dogs loose

I walk my dog about 2-3 miles every morning and at the same place, a local park, this idiot lets his 2 large dogs run loose and they run towards you until he calls them off. I don't know if they would attack or not but it certainly is not a comfortable feeling. Recently I told him the next time his dogs were off leash I'd call the cops and file a complaint. Now when I walk the dog as soon as I come around the corner near the park he puts them on leashes. He just can't stop.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:15 AM

13. I am so sorry to hear this.

My sister lost her papillion to an attack by one female pit bull. She was walking two dogs on leashes when this pit bull came charging through the screen door. She was left with some big vet bills. The property was rental and the tenant was not supposed to have pets. No insurance and no help with the bills or replacing the dog.

Above all I am glad that you and your wife were not hurt worse than you were. One pit bull can do severe damage but three in a pack could have put you down.

I am so sorry that your dog was savagely attacked. It will take a long time to recover both physically and mentally from this. You all will need an extra dose of love. Take care and be safe! Hugs to you!

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Response to peace13 (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:42 PM

109. I would think that the landlord would also be liable as the dog was being kept on his/her

property?

If anybody becomes aware of a renter in his/her neighborhood who owns an aggressive dog or one that might be aggressive it probably doesn't hurt to notify the property owner with a caution that now they are aware of what is living on his/her property, the landlord might be legally liable for any damage caused by said animal.

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Response to avebury (Reply #109)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:08 PM

155. She went all routes trying to settle.

The renter had no insurance and the homeowners insurance refused as it was against the rental contract to have pets. That leaves the renter who does not have a pot to &iss in. My sister did what she could without piling up too much in lawyer fees. In the end there was no restitution.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #155)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:19 PM

156. I kind of wondered if you sister had gone to small claims

court against the homeowner if she could have gotten a lien on the property. That might have forced the landowner to pay up before the property could be sold. She might have been able to do that without a lawyer. If there is a law school where she lives she might have been able to get some good advice on the aspect of getting a lien on the property. The rest of it she might have been able to do on her own with some decent research.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:16 AM

14. Good vibes for your dog and you.

I saved my dogs from an attack by an American Bulldog last year. Lady brought an aggressive rescue dog to a dog park because she thought he needed socializing. The dog pinned my two 4 month old puppies into a corner and when I approached the dog charged me. I got it's collar when it jumped for my neck but it had enough room to bite down hard on my right elbow. I pushed flatly against its nose with my left hand. That wasn't phasing it so I stuck my finger into it's nostrils. It's new owner was smoking a cigarette and told me that I "flailed my arms" and oh btw he is aggressive toward men (!).

My injuries were really not that bad in the grand scheme of things but you can't tell in the first minutes after a bite how bad it could get if you are infected, etc.

Learned a couple things after that attack. 1) those wide flat spiked collars are designed to protect a dogs neck during a fight or attack (I thought they were just for looks). 2) If you really have no other options, no help from the other owner (eg. they are not present) and are in fear for your life (if the right dog gets you on the ground and rips your neck open it's over), kick the stray dog as hard as you can just below the rib cage.

A friend of mine has his dog carry a huge stick and people think it is cute that this dog has this huge stick that he loves but it is really for when they get attacked by strays.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:22 AM

16. Years ago, our German Shepherd puppy was almost killed by a neighbor's pitbull

I know you can't judge a breed by one dog but there are way too many stories of pitbull attacks to not make you go... Hmmmmm!

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Response to qanda (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:29 AM

20. Fighting dogs

 

bread for that purpose. What you expect?

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Response to tama (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:47 PM

189. pitbulls are ideal for fighting dogs because regardless of how harshly

they are treated by their owners they suck it up. Any dog breed with a tendency toward aggression against people is avoided by breeders of fight dogs and those that fight them because having their fighting dogs turn on their owner is a disaster. The dog fighting world tried going to Presa Canarios because they wanted a larger fighting dog with much the same physical attributes as the Pitbull and it was an absolute unmitigated disaster for them... their dogs turned on them with even the slightest provocation of the mistreatment and downright cruelty bestowed on them. I secretly smile about this because I can't help but love the idea that so many dog fighters got mauled or killed by their own dogs when they were mistreated.

Pitbulls only have a tendency to be dog aggressive which when raised and trained correctly can be if not eliminated at least not a threat to other animals through obedience. It is NEVER breeding that makes a dangerous dog, it is ALWAYS training and specifically lack there of.

Pitbulls for quite some time now have been used by sooo many people not in dog fighting but because they want a viciously protective dog and chose the breed because of the mystique of dog fighting culture. These dogs are not dangerous because of their breed, they are dangerous because of their bad training and the specific desire of their owner to have a viciously protective dog. Unfortunately, these people generally know jack shit about dogs, don't love and care for the dogs as family members and have absolutely no damn clue of the monsters they created and blithely let loose on the community nor do they generally care. They'll stupidly praise their vicious out of control dog for trying to attack the mailman for no reason believing that their dog was behaving correctly in "defending" their home yet are totally oblivious to the absolute fact that they own a vicious totally uncontrolled dog and would be shocked if their dog suddenly decided to rip off their kid's face or their own face for reasons that only make sense to the dog because they have no clue how to properly behave and that their owner made them them that way.

Pitbulls owned, raised, trained, and lovingly cared for by owners that merely desire an obedient and loving dog are some of the most well behaved, docile and sweetest of creatures.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #189)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:20 PM

197. I'm not expert

 

and most of what I know about pitbulls is from Dog Whisperer. So from what I know, in addition what you told me, what makes them fighting dogs is that when they get in the fighting zone it's very hard to get them stop, as physical pain makes just more determinate fighters - as the story above shows. And as dogs - or humans - are never fully predictable, when pitbull gets loose and in the fight zone, consequenses can be horrible.

No doubt they can be very good dogs, but they are very challenging family members and there are way too many people who take them for wrong reasons and/or can't handle them for variety of reasons in responsible ways. I would not recommend them to anyone - while I don't expect very experienced and responsible "pack leaders" to care about my recommendations.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #189)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:41 PM

209. Lovers of the breed don't breed.

You don't make 200 pies for a dinner for ten. Not really germaine to your post.

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Response to roody (Reply #209)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:06 PM

241. lovers of any breed breed for health and temperament

There's no other way to improve a breed's health or temperament. For example, hip dysplasia used to be an epidemic problem among pretty much any large breed dog. Through better breeding practices it's been virtually eliminated to the point where most breeders can and do contractually guarantee against it. Allowing dogs to breed indiscriminately fosters genetic health problems whereas breeding only those dogs that are specifically chosen for their health with certified health checks and good temperament is the only way to produce dogs free of known common genetic ailments or bad temper. The key is responsible breeding. Most people have no idea what that is or why it matters. We would not have an epidemic of ill and bad tempered dogs were it not for irresponsible breeders and owners.

In a perfect world the only acceptable legal breeding would be responsible breeders closely monitored for acceptable practices and where every dog sold through them is contracted to be spayed/neutered unless sold to another responsible breeder to produce more healthy good tempered dogs to further saturate the breed. Any indiscriminate or backyard breeding or owners that refuse to spay/neuter would be illegal and closely monitored. In a perfect world every gene responsible for every known genetic health issue would be recognized and tested for to eliminate carriers from the breeding pool. It has only been through responsible breeding that some of these already have been identified and are tested for today, hence the virtual elimination of some health issues like hip dysplasia. Without responsible breeding there is no hope of producing healthy good tempered dogs raised responsibly in those most important early weeks of life so they have every chance of a long and healthy life with a responsible owner. It is only responsible breeders that CARE that much about the health and temperament of the dogs they produce and screen potential buyers to insure as best they can that the dogs they produce are owned by responsible and loving owners.

In order to get to any such perfect world BOTH encouragement of acquiring dogs from shelters AND from responsible breeders is necessary while encouraging the perfect world of responsible breeding only. The huge pool of abandoned, ill and genetically bad tempered dogs need loving homes, but responsible breeding MUST be fostered in order to reduce and eventually eliminate that huge pool. Government must be encouraged to pass laws and closely monitor dog breeding and ownership to reduce the epidemic of suffering by both humans and pets committed by bad tempered dogs and mostly because of bad owners. Both bad breeding practices and bad owners need to be reduced through education as well as real legal consequences focused on the bad breeders and bad owners much more so than the dogs that bad breeding and bad ownership have produced. Thankfully, some of that is working. The campaign for people to spay/neuter their dogs has worked wonders. It was not long ago that people generally never thought to spay/neuter their dog or know or care why they should and therefore didn't whereas today it has become almost a given to do so. But it obviously isn't nearly enough.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #241)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:51 PM

255. Yeah right. Professional dog breeders are 100% responsible people.

 

The vast majority of undesirable traits in domestic pets are there because, "responsible" breeders deliberately bred parent with ofspring, and sibling with sibling to "FIX" a desired trait in the breed and then used outbreeding to weed out any undesirable traits which came along for the ride.

If genetic testing was not as cheap as it has become, "responsible" breeders would still be mating littermates, harvesting one viable puppy and destroying 5 monsters.

Back in the day, the difference between a responsible and irresponsible breeder, was the irresponsible one sold animals that the "responsible" breeder would destroy.

Today, "professional breeders" turn out designer dogs by the thousand, from puppy mills run along lines not unsimilar to battery egg production.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #241)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:01 PM

261. As a shelter volunteer, I'll settle

for a one year moratorium. Give us a chance to catch up please.

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Response to qanda (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:59 PM

211. And the same can be said of German Shepherds

Or just about any large breed of dogs. I know of a story where a small child about 5 years old crawled into a yard full of them, and was mauled to death. No dog has any business off the leash I don't care what breed they are. Pit bulls are badly over populated which contributes the number of attacks.More attacks from them, because there is simply more of them. Fact only golden retrievers fare better in temperament then pit bulls.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:26 AM

18. I had a similar experience, but only one dog was running loose.

A pitbull type dog came up from behind and attacked my dog, who was less than half his size. She was on her back screaming and he had her by the throat. Luckily, her fur was very thick and the other dog was wearing a collar. I was able to pull him off before he got a really good grip on flesh. He was so intent on getting to her that he never tried to turn around and bite me while I was holding him until his owners came out of the house. The man of the household saw me holding his dog by the collar in an upright position and yelled at me wanting to know "What in the hell are you doing?".

Luckily, my dog was not injured, but I called police anyway. I don't know what happened to the other dog, but as soon as I gave them the address where it happened, they acted as though they were familiar with it. I really don't like breaking up a dog fight, but I'm sure he would have killed her if I hadn't done something.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:28 AM

19. I'd call an attorney, too.

Many years ago my husband was walking his two dogs & they were attacked by two unleashed dobermans. Like your case, the owners had no control over their dogs. My husband & one of his dog's were both bitten. The attack was taken very, very seriously by the law. My husband sued & got all medical expenses paid & an additional $5k.

I'm sorry you & your dog had to go through this. Hugs to your furry friend.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:37 AM

23. Thanks for the good advice

 

I will probably be calling a lawyer after I get the police report

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:25 PM

86. Your local bar association can give you a referral--most bar associations have attorneys

you can see for about half and hour at a nominal fee.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:26 PM

87. An attorney would be appropriate.

There seem to be a lot of instances about mean dogs and their stupid owners. I don't use the word stupid lightly, there is an extreme liability to not controlling your untrained pet. Those owners are frankly, stupid.

One major problem is local laws are often not that tough, misdemeanors and fines, a lawsuit would sober the dogs owner up real quick.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:54 PM

192. absolutely

They should absolutely be getting their vet bills and human medical bills compensated as well as compensation for pain and suffering. Assholes that let their uncontrolled aggressive dogs run loose and attack people or pets need the book thrown at them and hard.

This just makes me so damn angry. How hard is it for put their dog on a leash for heaven's sake especially when they know they can't control it and it's aggressive??? UGH!



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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:35 AM

22. Cool story, bro.

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Response to ceile (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:40 AM

25. why don't you believe them?

 

Just curious.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #25)


Response to ceile (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:53 AM

31. I'm sorry you have that problem

 

Does that mean that you were also a liar when you had a little post count ?

I have pictures of my wounded dog and will be holding a police report later

My dog almost lost his life , my wife has bite marks on her knee
it's just very sad to see somebody post the words you just posted
This couldn't be more real

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:38 AM

53. Ignore that poster

Some people love to get up on the jerk side of the bed. I believe you as do 99.999% here. Don't let one loud mouth get you down. We have a lot of them around here you'll find. The best thing to do is ignore them and alert if they are particularly nasty.

I hope your dog gets better soon. Did you try a couple of kicks to the pit bull groin?

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Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #53)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:48 AM

62. The pit was laying down

 

With my dog in its mouth and one of the owners on the dog
The dog was kicked many times and I was striking it in the face as hard as I could

It amazing it didn't care one bit till my thumb went in. If it didn't release my dogs in a few seconds I was prepared to rip its face off like the recent chimp attack, I noticed I could dig my fingers in and remove part of its face , the dog let go just in time
I am a big dog lover and have never thought about hurting a dog , but yesterday I couldn't think of anything but killing that dog
It was a sad day all around
My dog will have a full recovery

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #62)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:38 PM

107. Horrifying

I'm so sorry that happened. I'm with you - I could never think about willfully hurting a dog but in that situation your dog would have been killed so you had to act. Irresponsible owner or irresponsible breed - both are deadly.

Good luck.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #62)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:48 AM

219. It's not amazing

 

it's the pitbull character. When they are in the fight zone, getting hurt makes them only fight more harder.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:34 PM

101. Don't mind that poster

Their opinion doesn't matter and it's against the rules to accuse someone of being a troll. Welcome to DU.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:37 PM

104. I believe you...

it sounds horrible. I am happy to know your dog survived.

Years ago, my dog was likewise attacked for no reason by an off-leash pit bull. He didn't get seriously hurt, because the pit bull apparently just wanted to terrorize him for a few seconds and then had a pleased look on its face. The owner looked like some gang banger kid who didn't care.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:18 PM

178. I apologize

 

Obviously, I'm not ciele, but it is pretty clear the poster has too many posts to humble himself and apologize for being a complete jerk. So I'll do it for him.

Fortunately, with my low post count I don't have that problem (but apparently may still be in the category a liar!)

Sorry you had to go through that including the trauma of having the hurt the other dog.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:19 PM

82. Because very few people are able to accurately identify American Staffordshire Terriers

And any large molosser dog gets called a "pit bull". For that matter, pits aren't particularly large (breed standard max height is 19" for males).

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Response to Recursion (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:40 PM

146. That's right, there's a lot of confusion about dog "types".

Am Staffs, like most other dogs, are show dogs - in this case derived from fighting stock. Like, way back when.

They look much like an American Pit Bull Terrier, but they're not the same animal at all.

No really bad-ass APBT would ever be let loose on the streets or nor will they ever even be seen by most people. They're way too valuable.

and yeah, Recursion, they're usually 35-50 lbs cause any bigger and they're too much effort to feed, clean up after, and to pick up in the ring during fights.

They tend to hate other dogs (and animals) but love to fight and usually love people too.

It was much better when those things were practically Top Secret. Once the public discovered they existed - it was bad for both parties.

Now, before you jump all over me, realize I'm no fan of dog fighting , I've just seen a lot of stuff in my life.

I'm sure glad your dog is going to be OK. I hope you are too.

Rest assured, those were not real Bulldogs, they just looked something like one.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:28 PM

157. And not all dogs that fit into the 'pitbull' category are

American Staffordshire Terriers.

In fact, I would be willing to bet that very few are. And how many dogs of ANY breed fit precisely into the breed standard? I have two German Shepherds that are above the standard for height and weight. We like big dogs, so prefer our 28" at the shoulder, 100 lb GSD's over the breed standard. I also don't like the GSD's with steeply angled hocks and stifles, so ours were bred with a more level topline.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #157)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:49 PM

165. Well, actually, you're completely wrong. "Pit bulls" are American Staffordshire Terriers

Anything else is whatever it is, which is not a pit bull.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #165)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:28 AM

223. Actually, that is not correct.


The Am Staff is the show dog version of an APBT. Being a show dog, it has a "standard" it is bred to conform to physically and like most show dogs, it has exaggerated physical features which those who created this standard imagined are ideal. They look impressive, overly stocky and muscular with big heads. They're nice dogs but being descended from fighting stock they can be more aggressive than other showdogs

Families of real fighting bred APBT's have no real physical standard. They are performance bred. The "standard" is to win dog fights. Desire for fighting contact, no matter the outcome, is the breeding model. They only broadly resemble one another conformation wise. These dogs are not roaming the streets attaching other peoples pets, believe me.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #223)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:14 AM

227. So you're defining a class of dog by non-adherence to a breeding standard?

That seems... counterintuitive

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Response to Recursion (Reply #227)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:59 AM

228. not exactly...

Respectfully Recursion, these dogs are not bred for appearance like most doggies, and they've been around far longer than any "standard", a concept which was created to determine a winner in Dog Shows -- which are a fairly recent development historically speaking.

No, Bulldogs are, like other performance bred dogs such as Greyhounds, bred for a specific task. Looks are completely secondary. The people who breed them for fighting don't care what color they are (or are not), how high they are at the shoulders, etc.

Because the purpose for which they are intended tends to favor certain physical characteristics, they tend to all fall, broadly speaking, within a certain range looks-wise. These physical characteristics - a muscular build, relatively large head, etc., were selected for and enhanced in the the showdog now known as an Am Staff.

But what true Pit Bulldogs are being bred for is impossible to see because it's inside their head. It's only observable in a dog fight.

BTW, these animals don't have to be "trained" to fight, hell, they love to fight. That's the whole idea.

Yes, they are the subject of much rumor, fanciful tales and urban legend which, as with many other bad ideas, certain elements of our countrymen have been all to eager to try for themselves and hastily put into effect -- thus leading to the situation in which we now find ourselves.

Once again, I'm a dog lover and own only a little girl Chihuahua, yet I can easily imagine the horror Mangoman and his poor doggie went thru, and can just picture her being brutalized in such a fashion. I do it every time I go for a walk.

But those creatures that attacked Mangoman's dog were some mixed breed bully types with real bulldog in their background somewhere, no doubt. There's some rough dogs around. Wolves too.

However, if they'd have been the real deal they'd have been too busy fighting each other to even notice Milo. Hell, kept off-leash like that, one of them would have eventually killed the other two back at the trailer long ago.

Peace.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #228)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:54 AM

233. So how would you identify if a dog meets your criteria for being a "pit bull"?

Foolish me, using the actual definition by the relevant standards body...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #233)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:15 PM

242. Don't Judge a Book by it's Cover or Appearances Can Be Deceiving

That's part of the problem: neither the relevant authorities nor the public can figure it out either. Hence, certain segments of society and Animal Control both are burdened with dogs they think are "Pit Bulls".

No copyright on the name, that's for sure, and there's lots of Bully looking dogs running around looking scary.

There are the usual registries for dogs, AKC, UKC. They have the standards you refer to for their various versions of a "Pit Bull".

If dogs which are used for fighting are registered at all, it will be with the American Dog Breeders Association. That's a fine organization that has nothing to do with dog fights and they do have a Standard and hold Dogshows for APBT's too.

However, many times the owners of actual pit animals have no desire to "register" or reveal the breeding behind their particular Family of dogs (except to a chosen few) and few members of the public will ever see such dogs and fewer still would recognize them as such if they ever did see one. F.I., one Family of dogs tend to produce animals with long ears, kinda like a hound.

You aren't being foolish at all, yours is the usual conception of this animal -- which is a perfectly reasonable one given the information that's widely available. My goal here is simply to inform, not to criticize you personally.

One hears so many wild stories, tall tales -- like how dog fighters steal people's pets for use in "training" their dogs to kill. Of course, some morons with "pit bulls, upon hearing this tale, have gleefully attempted to put this idea into practice. Oh, then there's the rumor that dog fighters go around stealing people's poor house pets to actually use in "dog fights". Yeah, that would work.

The ASPCA is the worst at this crap, especially when they need money.

Sorry I went off on a lecture.

Peace

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Response to Recursion (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:58 PM

194. I think he was addressing the "cool story, bro" poster.

You're right about pit bull mis-identification, though. In a real sense, though, it doesn't matter if it was pit bulls or some other large breed that attacked the poster's dog, does it? They were a menace, were off leash, and attacked. Call them whatever you like, it was a bad situation.

I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to breed name accuracy in those circumstances. Would you?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #194)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 08:33 PM

212. RIght, I was assuming the "cool story, bro" came because of the phrase "pit bull"

I wouldn't pay a lot of attention to breed name accuracy in those circumstances. Would you?

When it leads to people trying to proactively euthanize my dog, yes.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #82)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:30 PM

248. The term pit bull is a broader term than American Staffordshire Terriers.

It could include the latter, but also includes the American Pit Bull and also includes dogs that are mixes with both breeds.

If you check out a Humane Society listing of available dogs, there are usually a good assortment of so-called pit bulls. They all have a similar head appearance, and a strong body shape, though they aren't necessarily purebred American Staffordshire Terriers or American Pit Bulls.

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Response to ceile (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:44 AM

28. Pardon me ?

 

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Response to ceile (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:04 AM

36. you're post is the reason why

I love the ignore function so much.

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Response to ceile (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:41 AM

56. +1

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Response to ceile (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:01 PM

69. Classy

right back atcha.

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Response to ceile (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:17 PM

139. Hah?

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Response to ceile (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:12 PM

176. Not cool, bro.

Not cool at all. You don't believe? Ignore. Seriously.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:39 AM

24. it is completely unacceptable for

people to have dogs that they cannot control.

Unfortunately, pitts are strong dogs and they tend to be aggressive toward other dogs (and cats). This is often a very bad combination.

In my apartment complex, one attacked a little girl in a stroller. The dog was on a leash--but he simply dragged his helpless owner along--a scrawny teenager who had no control and no clue. The dog latched onto the child's face and no one could pull him off. I used my only weapon--some packing tape--and covered the dogs nostrils. He opened his mouth then and let go.

The owner tried to sue me for animal cruelty (because I covered the animals nostrils briefly--he could still breath through his mouth though--as long as he let go--but fortunately that went away when they looked at the evidence. Years later that little girl is still having plastic surgeries to fix her face.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:40 AM

26. I am sick of people letting their dogs run free...

 

One in my neighborhood already ripped our neighbor's cat apart (pieces found in his mouth), they kept it up for 2-3 months, and now he runs free again some days.

It was not a pitbull, though... some kind of hound dog.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:44 AM

27. In California there are leash laws. At a minimum those people should be required to pay for your

vet expenses.

They should also face the maximum penalty under the law


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Response to still_one (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:32 AM

48. The OP can sue them

Last edited Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:04 PM - Edit history (1)

and those dogs are as good as dead, believe me. I'm assuming they were seized by animal control and are no longer amongst the living.

Editing to add: Even though there are leash laws in Calif. you'd never know it around here!!!!





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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #48)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:03 PM

130. How sad - because it's not human we kill them without due process. n/t

 

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Response to IDoMath (Reply #130)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:08 PM

133. That is the law

I did not write this law and best I can tell, it is not enforced as much as it should be.

Do you enjoy reading about people and their pets being attacked by a mean pack of dogs and damn near being seriously maimed and/or killed?

The OP and his wife could have been bitten by rabid dogs, you don't know nor do I, nor does animal control.

Said animals would be seized and tested and kept under lock and key for a couple of weeks and then euthanized if this occurred in California.

That is the law. Whether it is duly enforced or not is another matter.



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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #133)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:12 PM

136. An unjust law is an unjust law

 

So if we have a law that says that if a human or group of humans kill someone we can just kill them? No, we have trials and then we determine whether or not they can be rehabilitated.

Yes, a dangerous, uncontrollable predator needs to be put down for the safety of others but more often than not the problem is not the animal it is the human who failed to control the animal. Shall we kill the human, too?

Just because something is "the law" doesn't make it right. Laws do not create justice, they create order, nothing more.

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Response to IDoMath (Reply #136)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:18 AM

224. You've obviously never heard of someone being shot by police.

If you're endangering the lives of others during the commission of your crime, there is often a right to use deadly force for defense.

If a human has bloody flesh in their jaws after biting and tearing at someone, they tend to get shot too.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/05/26/miami-police-confrontation-men-leaves-1-dead-1-hurt/


False equivalence: defused.

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Response to IDoMath (Reply #136)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:30 PM

257. The owner has every right to make a court battle of it and SOME in fact DO spend...

 

...tens of thousands of dollars in defence of their dog. Trouble is, the sort of person who lets their agressive dog run loose, is also probably the sort of person who just says "Kill the fucking thing. I'll get another one."

And BTW responsible jurisdictions do their best to forbid further pet ownership to people convicted of owning agressive animals.

You're right, ultimately the responsibility is the owner's, but we still can't afford to give the animal they broke a second chance, because whoever "stands" for that animal has to accept total responsibility, if that animal attacks again.

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Response to IDoMath (Reply #130)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:21 PM

198. Not really, what if that were a child? Would that change your perspective? The OPs dog was almost

Killed. A dog for many can be thought of as part of ones family

If the pit bulls were not trained or controlled properly by the owners, there is very little choice for society

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Response to still_one (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:46 PM

252. Since the OP was bitten he might be able to sue the owners for emotional distress, as well. nt

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:50 AM

29. when I lived in Europe,

all dogs over a certain height/weight had to be muzzled in public (whether the owner thought they were perfectly behaved or not). It worked very well.

I think the weight was 40 pounds and the height like 18 inches.

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Response to brokechris (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:03 AM

35. and that's why their dogs have gotten so wimpy

they don't have to defend themselves, so now look at the French Poodle




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Response to Enrique (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:33 AM

49. Bullshit. That's a working dog with a funny haircut.



There's no reason at all that dog can't defend itself.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #49)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:04 PM

72. Agreed, Poodles are not wimpy dogs!

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #72)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:47 PM

118. They're actually pretty damn mean

I hate poodles.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #118)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:50 PM

121. I've heard that

Especially the large ones (standard poodle?)

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #121)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:06 PM

132. Yup.

They're a nervous and jumpy breed.
Gimme a mutt rescue dawg any day.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #132)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:43 PM

187. I have two

Standards and a Lab and a rescued Beagle mix. I would trust my poodles far more than the others or any other dog I have ever had. That is why I have two. I never knew until I got to know one. Not nervous or jumpy at all and very very bright. Best kept secret in the dog world as far as I am concerned.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #187)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:22 AM

229. Hmm

Every poodle I've met has been fairly mean.
But it has been years and years since I've even seen one.
Maybe they just didn't like me.
But most dogs (and other animals) tend to like me.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:36 PM

103. Ha, Ha.

You've obviously never met a poodle in person.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:43 PM

114. I take it you've never dealt with a poodle

They're bloody vicious when they want to be.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #114)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:29 PM

184. And one of te smartest breeds. nt

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Response to Enrique (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:50 PM

149. Standard poodles were bred to hunt bears

The characteristic haircut was to keep them warm when they ran through the snow and ice towards the bears.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:50 AM

220. Tell that to Lukanikos

 

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Response to tama (Reply #220)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:47 AM

225. This is a fascinating story.


In September 2011, on the occasion of a striking policemen's union marching in the centre of Athens, Loukanikos, according to eyewitnesses, was "initially confused" between two opposite sides both of uniformed policemen but, when the riot police contingent attacked their striking colleagues, the dog sided with "those who were being attacked."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riot_dog

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)


Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:00 AM

34. Horrible

All dogs should be leashed. Always. Doesn't matter the breed. I can see letting hunting dogs go in the woods - but public parks. Beaches? Boardwalks? Streets in communities? Nope.

Not worth the lawsuit.

And - everybody loves a jolly little beagle right? Except when you have ONE in the pack that is protective of a child in the family . . . and that one dog would growl at my father if he yelled at me. He was always on a leash and always had a muzzle if it was my turn to walk the dogs. Sweet as he was to me . . .

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:10 AM

37. Kill the dogs...

I'm a dog person..had dogs my whole life. They live better than most people in the world. I love (almost) all dogs.

Having said that..

Anybody who has dangerous dogs roaming in their neighborhood should kill them.... or see to it they are put down.

Harsh..?

Nope... only a matter of time until somebody's dog is killed... or some person. An average of 33 people are killed by dogs every year in the US. 800,000 Americans seek medical care for dog bites every year.

Why not save all the heartache? Why not put that heartache on the person with the vicious dog(s)? Pretending they even care about the dog.

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:22 AM

43. Well, that's both unreasonable and illegal.

Best defense to unwanted loose-dog attention is grizzly-bear type pepper spray.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #43)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:15 PM

77. Very reasonable ....

... illegal..? So is having a dangerous animal running loose. But.... if it's illegal... so is smoking dope. GUILTY!

Bear spray for dogs....?

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #77)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:23 PM

84. LOL, I have seen that sign before. But anyway, I don't

recommend arbitrarily killing any dogs, pit bulls or any other breed--unless there's an attack imminent.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #84)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:31 PM

97. Not arbitrary... packs of roaming dogs are a clear and present danger.. nt

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:27 AM

44. That's where I found myself

 

I decided I needed to kill the dog and couldn't figure out how
Milo had a few moments left and the only soft spot on this massive dog was his eye ball
Once my thumb was deep in his skull he released my dog , but I really needed a better way to end the situation, it went on far to long , my wife was screaming the other two dogs were barking and biting and Milo was screaming like his life was slipping away from him. I wasn't prepared for the situation at all, I can't remember being in a situation that intense before , I went home and looked at the wall for a couple hours

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #44)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:05 PM

74. What kind of dog is Milo?

I've had a dachshund who was attacked by a larger dog (not a pit) and it was really, really frighhtening.

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Response to Patiod (Reply #74)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:28 PM

92. Milo is a border collie blue heeler mix

 

Is what the vet told me anyway
He is the smartest dog I have owned

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:13 AM

39. Terrible stuff

I would certainly bring a knife or something along those lines. Dangerous pits shouldn't be allowed roam unchecked.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:15 AM

40. There is a bad area not far from where I live

I once had a Sheltie that I used to enjoy walking (on a leash always!). One day we walked to this part of the neighborhood as I'd never been there before, a bad area with a lot of thug type folks around it seems to me.

In the distance I could see a very mean looking large black dog pacing around quickly that was working his way rather quickly towards us.

My poor old Sheltie (who was about 10 years old at that time and a timid dog to say the least) was very scared so we turned around and got the hell out of there as fast as we could.

Luckily nothing happened but I never took him anywhere near that part of the neighborhood again where there are lots of dogs running around off-leash which is illegal as hell!!

I'm sorry that you had to go through this and if I was you, I'd make sure to file charges against the owners of these dogs and also, all three of these dogs need to be put down if they are indeed so very vicious.

That could have been you they decided to go after, not just your poor dog.

I'm glad poor Milo seems to be ok (is he?). I hope that both you and your wife went to the ER being you were both bitten, that could turn into some serious stuff and it needs to be reported! Those bad dreams, I hope they don't haunt you forever!!!



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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:21 AM

42. so that area is essentially off limits to you

there are routes that I don't walk anymore due to having seen unleashed dogs. One block in particular which I used to enjoy.

I think some owners of aggressive dogs get a kick out of people being scared off by them. If it was me, and I found out someone changed their route due to my dog, I would feel awful about it. Not everyone thinks the same way, however.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:29 AM

45. if it sickening really

I had the dog for a few years, he was my late mother's dog and I swore I'd care for him until he died on her death bed.

As for me, I'm not in good health and walk with a cane and I sure cannot run.

I think these thugs types around where I live (and there are more of them with dogs off-leash just around the corner!) get off on having there big macho dog out there lurking around just waiting to jump on or scare the hell out of the likes of people like me walking a little dog like I had.

To think they'd enjoy watching a disabled woman trying to walk with a cane have to try to "run" away is sickening and grostesque.

After my Sheltie died, I never managed to find another dog as I just don't know what to think and yes, I'll admit it, I am scared to get another dog out of fear that the same thing will happen again.

These people are still around. Some of them keep these mean dogs behind fences that could easily be jumped; I know it and so do they. is the point of this?



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Response to Mangoman (Original post)


Response to cecilfirefox (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:30 AM

46. Yep.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:31 AM

47. i walk my dog in the woods all the time

and always carry a glock 40 with me. i carry it for personal protection but would kill anything hurting my dog

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:36 AM

50. I have done dog rescue for 5 years, and I had to put a dog down a few weeks ago

He attacked and killed another dog I have, and he tried to go after another dog and kill him. I would have placed him in a responsible home with the understanding that he was not to be near other males, but he also would grab younger kids by the sleeve and drag them around "playing." We brought him up from the south when he was about 10 weeks old, and he was about 18 months now.

In the 4000 or so dogs I brought up, I have never had a dog just attack another dog unprovoked, with no food around or anything. He was a pit mix, but I have had lots of them brought up, and they don't behave like this boy I had. There was something twisted in my boy.

The three dogs that attacked your dog were acting as a pack, and your dog was an invader. Perfectly normal for any dog, even labs. I have see labs act in a pack. But the owners should be fined, and should have to pay your vet costs. Maybe, then, they will act responsibly. This is 100% owner error.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:36 AM

51. Pit Bulls were bred specifically to kill other dogs

although they're the sweetest dogs toward their masters. They weren't bred to herd, or to hunt, or to lie on your lap. They were bred to annihilate other dogs in dog fights. Period.

It is very unwise to allow these powerful dogs to roam unleashed, and what the owner(s) of those three pit bulls did was irresponsible, to say the least. Every good pit bull owner knows they have a potential dogfighter as a pet. They know this as a fact and take the responsible route of taking this into account every minute of every day. These powerful and beautiful dogs were bred for pit fighting, so why is it so hard for some pit bull owners to understand that this is their nature and if they're kept as a pet, to socialize them early and to watch over them often especially when there are other dogs around?

We have a pit bull next door who really dislikes our cream Chow. These two ladies are known to be bully-breeds, but the Chow is no match for the more powerful pit bull, and as a responsible dog owner, I take extra precaution to ensure our beloved girl stays as far away from strangers (she's our guard dog and she's a Chow - not the most trusting breed) and as far away from the neighbor's pit bull as possible. By the way, the pit bull next door is the sweetest pup you'll ever meet - just as long as you keep other dogs away from her.

What happened to your beloved Milo is a tragedy because it could have been prevented, but please don't blame the pit bulls. They only did what came naturally to them.

I'm so sorry to hear about you sweet pet, Milo. Did he survive? Will he be okay?

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:33 PM

100. Yes , milo will be ok

 

He has wounds on either side of his neck
Thanks for asking

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #100)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:54 PM

128. This has been the brightest news to me for the day.

I was literally physically ill after reading what happened to your sweet Milo. He's such a tiny dog (my Pug is over 30 pounds so I know Milo must be small and, of course, I envisioned our Harley in such a situation) and to be hurt by no less than three pit bulls broke my heart.

Thank you for letting me know Milo will be ok. He's a tough little dog and you must be a proud parent.

Just as an aside, I don't know if you've looked into it, but there is a superior dog food out there that I've been feeding my four dogs for the past six years - Life's Abundance. It's a bit expensive, but it's the best dog food money can buy, and it will strengthen your Milo's system so he will heal faster and stronger. According to the Veterinarian, Dr. Jane Bicks (who appeared as a veternary expert on Animal Planet, among other animal-friendly shows), who oversees the production of this incredible, full-balanced food, it can help extend the life of your beloved pet by many, many years. Oh, and I don't get a dime of compensation for this. I just tell people about this dog food that beats the top brands of dog food because it's done wonders for my four dogs (two are rescue dogs). My Chow no longer has "hot spots" and their coats are absolutely beautiful.

Well, it doesn't hurt to read up about it, anyway. Milo deserves the best of the best after such a harrowing event. He's such a courageous pooch.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #128)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:33 PM

143. Life's Abundance

Not meaning to hijack this thread but ... re: Life's Abundance foods ...

I was feeding this to my three cats for quite a long while and I lost two of them within 8 weeks of one another.

One was very old and it was her time to go. As for the other one, he was a Flame Point Siamese that I got from a no-kill shelter as a kitten. He was 11 years old and his kidneys quit on him and I had to have him put down.

After that, I gave up on feeding Life's Abundance to my one cat left. She seems to like "Spot's Stew", grain free dry food for cats and her coat is a lot softer now and she seems happy and healthy.

I'd be reluctant to buy anymore Life's Abundance again after what happened not long ago. Two cats dead in two months ... kidney failure and the other a tumor ... I just don't know anymore.

Just a warning is all.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #143)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:06 PM

195. I'm sorry to read that. It must have been devastating for you and your family

to lose such beautiful creatures and friends. And don't worry . . . you're not hijacking anything.

But to be honest, I don't know if Life's Abundance is the reason for your babies' much too early demise.

In my experience, it's been the best pet food I could buy for both my cats (Red Tabby and Choccie-point Siamese) and my dogs (two pugs, one chihuahua and one cream Chow).


My Siamese kitten (7 mos old, rescued from an abusive family) came to us a month or so ago, and she was in a bad, bad way. Dirty eyes, fleas, coat was rough with patches of really straw-like fur, and listless. She's been with us for over a month now (she was about 6 mos when she arrived) and I have only given her Life's Abundance, specifically, Nature's Choice can food (one can a day) and the Life's Abundance kibble for Cats (with plenty of fresh water). She's gained weight, her coat shines, and the kids who found our Sagwa don't recognize her - which is a good thing.

We have an older cat, Lenny (b-day: 02-02-2006). He's a red tabby. He had kidney failure earlier on before I discovered Life's Abundance for cats. Back then I only gave it to my dogs. Anyway, when he had kidney failure we brought him to the vet and he told us that Lenny didn't drink enough (he didn't) and that it was the reason for his kidney failure (till this day, Lenny loathes moist or can food). After he was kept overnight stuck with an IV (and we got stuck with a bill of $550) he came home and we started him on Nature's Choice (Life's Abundance). He's been on it since then, and he's healthy, happy, and gorgeous, of course.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #195)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:09 PM

235. major differences

My two late cats did not eat canned food (they hated it). They only ate dry cat food.

They liked Life's Abundance and it seemed to be a much better choice that what they were getting before.

I know that it has a phosphorus level that is about twice the level that the vets recommend for cats with kidney problems.

Of course the veterinarians seem to push that Hills K/D stuff and wow is that ever expensive.

I still fail to see how ANY sort of food for an animal that has one its primary ingredients being brewer's yeast to be at all helpful (this is what you find with Hills K/D). My old cat ate it, the one with the problem did not, not that I blame him. Brewer's yeast?

In any event, I am glad to know your four-legged friends are are doing well and I wish all of you the very best!

I may be looking to adopt another cat/kitten some day. I'm still so damn sad about those two back to back losses that I can barely think straight at times.

Regards,

CountAllVotes

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #235)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:48 PM

258. Indeed. A waste of good Vegemite to feed it to animals. /nt

 

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:42 PM

111. They weren't bred to kill other dogs.

They were bred for hunting hogs and taking down large animals. Staffordshire terriers (What most people call a "pit bull") weren't even bred for killing other dogs.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:50 PM

122. But they WERE bred to kill

 

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #122)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:12 PM

135. So were Rat Terriers

and Jack Russel Terriers and Dachshunds and Beagles.

Pretty much anything that isn't a herding dog or a lap dog was bred to kill.

Edited to add: I'm definitely glad to hear your dog will be ok.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #135)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:44 PM

147. A rat terrier will do less damage

That's just the plain truth. I am saying that as someone who has a large breed dog in my life ( Alaskan Malamute). I would rather take on a vicious rat terrier then a vicious Malamute any day of the week.

By always saying that small dogs bite too, it takes away from the reality that owners of large dog have an even greater responsibility to train themselves and their dogs.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #147)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:47 PM

163. Oh I completely agree with you.

I think the owners of large dogs have a much greater responsibility to train and control their dogs.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #135)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:34 PM

159. beagles and other scent hounds are/were not bred to kill

They we bred to follow scents, and bark when the prey was found.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #135)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:42 PM

162. LOL...And guess what RAT Terriers were bred to kill???

RATS.

Not other dogs. And the average Rat Terrier weighs about 15 pounds. We have one. She is as mean as a snake with strangers. She's a biter. She bites. But when she does, it is mostly annoying...not deadly. And, in her defense, she never goes out of her way to bite anyone. She doesn't like it when people lean down over her and extend their hands. If they let her come to them, she is fine. The weird thing? No matter how many times we tell new people not to stand over her and lean down and stretch their hands out, guess what the first thing they want to do is? Never fails. They always think THEY are the ones that are going to establish the magical connection with her.

Do you know WHY 'Pit' bulls are called Pitbulls?? The 'pit' part refers to the fighting pit where two dogs are pitted against one another to kill each other. It is not the dog's fault and certainly there are good pitbulls who are loving and kind pets. But this dog is equipped with a skill set which makes it a particular problem when it is poorly handled or trained.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #162)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:49 PM

164. I had one too.

Probably the smartest dog I ever had. I think the only person he'd bite was me, and that was generally when I was pestering him.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #122)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:40 AM

266. Laughable.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:52 PM

124. But in more recent history they have been bred to fight other dogs

Many generations of them. It's a shame.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:49 PM

190. Joey, I'm familiar with the history of Pit Bulls.

The American Pit Bull Terriers of today are direct descendants of Irish and English pit fighting dogs, old breeds that were specifically bred for pit fighting with, among other creatures, other dogs. I will concede however that I've been wrong to have used the words "to kill other dogs", although that's what they ultimately do if no one intervenes because of their superior power, speed, and athleticism, not to mention, tenaciousness.



Yes, I know Staffordshire Terriers weren't bred to fight other dogs, per se, but they are different from the American Pit Bull Terriers in size and strength -although they do look like them. In fact, they look like a small version of the American Pit Bull Terrier (see a Staffy below), but I've never seen a well-bred Staffordshire Terrier attack other dogs unprovoked. Ever. But there are countless cases where American Pit Bull Terriers have done just that.



Edited to add link to Pit Bull image

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #190)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:43 AM

230. I believe that is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, an English dog

Am Staff are larger and even more exaggerated looking being descended from APBT stock originally.

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Response to Ligyron (Reply #230)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:49 PM

240. The top image shows an American (Pit) Bull Terrier (official name)

and the bottom image is of the British Staffordshire Bull Terrier (Staffordshire ). IMHO, referring to the American Staffordshire Terrier is a serious misnomer because Staffordshire is a village in Engliand, not the U.S.

That said, even the AmStaff looks different than the American (Pit) Bull Terrier because much like the British Staffy, the AmStaff is low to the ground and stocky.


The American (Pit) Bull Terrier is taller and sleeker of build.



That's the reason why I posted those images; to show the difference although I can't deny, when not set beside one another, they're almost identical in appearance.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #111)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:57 PM

260. PEE AYE TEE. Pit. They were bred for PIT FIGHTING from dogs...

 

...that were themselves bred to bring down (or at least slow down) much large animals, by latching on and not letting go.

Just like the dachshund was bred for length so it could not turn around in a badger's set, but had no choice but to fight.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #51)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:30 AM

265. Oh, sweet ignorance.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #265)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:21 AM

267. Yes, but I won't hold it against you. eom

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #267)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 12:41 AM

269. And the best you have is still pathetic and sad. eom

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:40 AM

54. what a horror.

i'm so sorry. how's your dog now?

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:40 AM

55. The owners of those dogs should be banned from owning dogs

Owning a dog is a big responsibility. Owning a breed of dog large enough to kill someone easily is a HUGE responsibility.

My guy owns an Alaskan Malamute. I never, ever forget that as lovable and beautiful as she is, she must never ever think she is above me or any human in the pecking order. This means treating her like a DOG, not like a child and not only knowing what alpha behaviors are, but also being able to put a quick stop to those behaviors.

She is a big goofy, loving, sweet animal but I saw a glimpse of the wolf in her when she was treated to her first "real" bone and suddenly decided she didn't want any human near it. It was frightening. I was very glad to have my guy there to put her misconceptions about who owned the bone to rest.

People should have to take classes before owning any breed large enough or with a history of killing people. Then perhaps people ignorant of how different breeds behave would then choose animals more fitted to their lifestyle rather then as a "cool" factor or neat accessory.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:45 AM

59. Even with smaller dogs, I always think it's a good idea to

routinely take things they love away from them--food bowls, toys, treats, etc. I randomly do that with my dogs, and have had my kids do it too (under supervision, of course), because dogs need to understand their place in the pack. They get what they get when I let them have it.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #59)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:56 AM

66. Absolutely

The big problem is that people generally do not take the time to train themselves or their dogs AND even fewer really think about the breed they are getting beyond " wow I like the way that dog looks". Different breeds have different needs and different behaviors.

When you have a big dog from a breed that is known to be powerful and potentially deadly then that information and training becomes all the more important. I love our dog, very much, but I never lose sight of the fact that she could kill me or a child with little effort. She is very very smart and needs to have stimulation and exercise routinely because that is what she has been bred to need.

Education, consistency and responsibility are so important.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:02 PM

70. I think it is foolish to think that dog breeds are all about looks and not about

behavior! I know a lot of people who absolutely love their Alaskan Malamutes, and they seem to be good dogs, but I have to tell you, they can be hell on chickens! A neighbor was watching her son's dog, and he got loose and headed right for my chicken yard. She felt really bad about it, but it's just in the nature of the dog. We've had other strays harass and/or kill the chickens over the years, but mostly out of curiosity. I think the malamutes are all business; to them those chickens are dinner.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #70)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:10 PM

76. They don't particularly play nice with other dogs

They also are not particularly good around small animals. Ours is okay with the cats, but only because she is well trained and the cats also were able to teach her to leave them alone when she was a little tiny thing. SHe does get jealous when the cats are getting attention from her pack though

Wildlife has quickly learned that the backyard is not the place to be. She looks like a polar bear going after a seal under the ice when she pounces.

There are of course exceptions, but they mostly like to be alone with their humans or maybe with another dog that is related or has been part of the pack since they were young.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:44 AM

58. My dad came upon a situation like this once, he calmly walked up and

kicked the offending dog under the chin, hard. It immediately let go of the other dog.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:46 AM

60. When, where did this happen? News link? Anything to verify your story?

Anything at all?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:51 AM

63. This happened on Sugarloaf Key MM 17

 

Just passed the jumping bridge, a pretty secluded area for the Florida Keys

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #63)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:05 PM

73. I used to live on Big Pine Key. I know the area well.

Is there a newspaper account. Pitbull attacks usually make the headlines, and your story would certainly rate that.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #73)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:38 PM

105. Not sure about the newspaper

 

Gonna learn more today

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #105)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:34 PM

185. I have NEVER seen a dog fight make the news unless

a person was seriously hurt. I live in the South, and for a long time in Florida. What a weird question. I can't imagine why you are being asked to "verify" a story.

Beyond ridiculous.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #73)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:09 PM

134. around here, dog fights don't usually make the news

unless it is a pretty slow day--or a human gets hurt ?

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:47 PM

148. I have a link to the five year old girl who was killed by a couple of loose pitbulls

right down the road from me.

Or is that just another case of people lying to make Pitbulls look bad??

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/8929850/

Cause Pitbulls NEVER do anything wrong, I know. If you even try to imply that pitbulls are dangerous, the pitbull apologizers go apeshit.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:19 PM

179. you can't be serious

Call your vet and ask how many dog fights make the news. If you don't own an animal, just google "Veterinarian" and your home town. Call the first one on the list

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #179)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:07 PM

210. Perhaps you missed the part where he and his wife were bit?

And he gouged out the eye of one of the pitbulls? ESPECIALLY in the Keys, this is news.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #210)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:32 PM

214. "bit"

No human bites were serious enough to warrant anything other than a mention on a political forum. The OP's dog's condition is the purpose of the original post.

Doubtful that it's worth a reporters time. Sorry.

And I am sorry for Milo....I have no doubt this happened....it's sad. I love my dog; it would have shaken me to the core. But, I wouldn't have expected a news crew.

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #214)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:20 PM

216. Uh, yeah, ok, dude.

THREE pitbulls attack a dog and its two owners. The owner fight off two of them, one gets to the dog grasping it by the neck. The owners of the pitbulls arrive and are unable to control their dogs so the guy getting attacked GOUGES OUT THE EYE OF ONE OF THE DOGS to get it to release his dog. Then animal control and police arrive.

And your response is "meh."


I thought I lived a fairly exciting life, and if this would not even be local news at 6 where you live, I want to come for a visit and hang out with you. Please.

I live in Seattle, and shit much less exciting than this makes the news.

Come on, man, bullshit the fans, not the players.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #216)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:16 PM

238. when I lived in Seattle,

my neighbor and her BF were robbed and gun point and raped (yep both of them--the man and the woman) by a gang of 4 men--and it never made the news. ???

Newsreporters do regularly check the police blotter--but they don't cover every story. They pick and choose. There is only so much room in the paper.

Now when I was in college, I lived in a sleep little college town--there everything made the news. In a town like that this would definitely be covered. In a big city? A dog fight--a couple people got bit (obviously not seriously injured) meh

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Response to brokechris (Reply #238)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:20 PM

239. Thats my point. Thank You.

The Keys are quiet for the most part, and this would have been all over the local news, at least for a day. Something just doesn't add up.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #239)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:01 AM

264. I would only expect it if the bites to the humans

were serious enough to warrant hospital attention or if the human victims were children.

I've never lived in Key West--but I have family all over the south--dog fights and dog bites aren't generally big news

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #60)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:27 PM

247. Do you really think every aborted dog attack goes into the newspapers?

You must live in a very small town.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:53 AM

64. you're lucky the owners were around to ID, plenty of times no one claims the dogs.

I would carry pepper spray and use it before the dog grabs if you can. The human can be bit and once a bullie breed grabs hold it will rip your dogs hide to try pulling it away. spray the spray right in its eyes and it should unlatch from your dog. Can also squeeze its neck and it will faint for a couple seconds and unlatch.

No matter the breed we have a problem with dog owners keeping unsocialised, untrained dogs in their back yard. Fence breaks, gate left open or dogs dig out. People should not be allowed to collect dogs like they are rose bushes.

Dog parks need to require neutered dogs only, or even require dogs to have a basic obedience title or a canine good citizenship title to attend a park or to even walk in public.

Some pitt bulls running stray killed my friends pony. Always having barking dogs run out at my horse, most times they just bark and go away. Did have a pitt bull start grabbing at her legs and face. My mare is smart, she spent her first several years as a wild horse. She spun and faced the dog and came down on him with her front hooves and killed it. I didn't have to do anything except hold on and not fall off. Then on with our ride like nothing happened.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:59 AM

67. "People should not be allowed to collect dogs like they are rose bushes. "

This is so true.

So many dogs end up in shelters and rescues because people wanted the appearance of owning a dog but not the responsibility.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #67)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:17 PM

79. The local shelter is filled with dogs

and I'd estimate that about 80% are pit bulls or pit bull crosses. The shelter really tries to push them on you when you go there to look at what is available for adoption. I never consider a pit bull. Years ago, a friend of mine was dating this man that had one and his name was "Chopper". That told me all I needed to know about this breed of dog -- one I do not want.

I constantly see young people with litters of them around town (I live in a college town area). These young folks aren't in college, they are just hanging out with their packs of pit bulls and the puppies and their friends and their drugs aplenty (crack central around here, no kidding).

One time some kid came up to my car that was parked in the disabled zone in front of a store I shop at quite often. As I was creeping out of my car with my cane, this kid had a pit bull puppy and was swinging it around by its neck as it squealed. He laughed and thought it was funny and kept doing it. I told him to STOP doing that to the puppy and that it would grow up to be mean! He walked away to another area outside of the entrance to the store with the puppy cursing me and calling me "a bitch".

I did not like this one bit and went into the store and reported them to the manager of the store who I believe contacted animal control. A few days later I noted that my car had been "keyed" doing probably close to $700.00 damage to the paint on my car. Thanks a lot idiot "young folks" or better yet stupid idiots! I never had the car fixed as it costs too much and my deductible for acts of vandalism is $500.00, so yep, they got me alright and got me good.

I'll admit it, pit bulls scare the hell out of me especially when you see owners like I describe above with them. It is terrifying and if you were grabbed by your neck and swung around by some asswhole high on drugs until you squealed, you'd probably grow up to be a mean SOB too I'd suspect.

It is not necessarily the dog's fault. In my opinion, it is the owner's fault for not taking all and I mean ALL of the responsibility that comes with owning a dog, especially one known to be very vicious at times, especially if provoked or bred to fight like the pit bull breed is.




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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #79)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:48 PM

120. Pit bulls are the majority in shelters here also

It's so sad. Unregulated breeding is a huge problem. I think people should have to be licensed to own an un-spayed or neutered dog.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:56 AM

65. I was attacked twice by pit bulls dogs.

The first time it was with my then 6 month old puppy.

The two pit bulls came out of nowhere.

My dog did try to protect me put she didn't have a chance.

One of the pit bulls took my dog by the neck and wouldn't let go.

I was lucky and found a pipe nearby and killed the pit bull.

It took 3 strikes to the head and back.

The other dog then tried to bit me, I hit him also in the head.

My poor puppy was bleeding and screaming in pain.

I will never forget it.

I never went walking without a 22 again.

The second time I was just walking down the street was attacked.

I started yelling for help and two guys came out and shot the dogs.

The dogs were trying to kill me, I wasn't the first one.



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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:04 PM

71. Get some bear spray

stops every dog every time. Period.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:18 PM

80. Spray...

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #80)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:27 PM

88. Stealing. nt

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:15 PM

78. I cannot believe the owners allowed three unleashed Pitbulls

to roam around like that, especially since it is obvious they are dangerous. I hope Milo will be okay.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:19 PM

81. 2 days ago a friend told me that her son's pitbull got out of its kennel

and almost killed the other family dog.

A pitbull almost killed my ex's cat about 5 yrs ago.

The old story is that pitbulls are angels, always so sweet and nice, and would never hurt anything, right up until the point that they totally lose it, go completely psycho, and try to kill your kids.

I really love dogs, but I do believe that, as a breed, pitbulls are generally genetically unstable.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:20 PM

83. Pitbull owners rush to the defense of the attacking dogs in 3...2...1...

n/t

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:25 PM

85. Glad you and your dog survived!

That could have been even uglier had they turned on you.

And I never go anywhere without a clip knife. Even just to take out the trash, because you never know.
Make sure you get one that doesn't have too tight of a clip, as a few extra seconds trying to get it loose from your pocket could make the difference.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #85)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:28 PM

94. I should do that

I am not a gun person but I do have a very large hunting knife that I keep next to my bed in a drawer.

I'm good w/knives being I cook a lot.

I think I'll start carrying said knife with me when I attempt to walk around the neighborhood dogless.

It angers me that I cannot have a dog. I really need one given my physical problems -- exercise exercise ... it might help but NO I can't have a dog because of these damn thugs living around here with their mean dogs running around off leash.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #94)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:42 PM

110. Indeed.

And remember, make sure whichever knife you choose, can be drawn and opened (unless it's a fixed blade, of course) with one hand very fast.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:47 PM

119. Yep it is a hunting knife

and the blade is fixed alright. The thought of trying to open it in the dark for a visually impaired person like myself is not an option for me.

Hence, I keep it in the drawer right next to my bed and I can get to it in a second.

I'll start taking it with me when I walk around this thug filled, drug filled neighborhood in which I live. It isn't bad everywhere, just in certain spots which I avoid if I know they are like this, but still I never know at times and with all of the foreclosures, etc. going on there are a lot of empty houses and the people that left them have been known to leave their pets behind. Now how sad is this?

Sad isn't it? A disabled woman cannot even walk around their own neighborhood without a knife in hand out of fear that some off-leash dog might attack them?

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:29 PM

141. The clip knife I have

is made to be drawn and opened very quickly with one hand, it has a little cutout on the blade so you can open it super fast with just a flick of the wrist.
The knife I never leave home without is a Bear & Sons, it's American made and has a lifetime warranty.
It looks cool too.

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:36 PM

145. I tried to find an image

of the knife I had, but I couldn't seem to find it.
I did find the catalog for the manufacturer though.
I think mine has been discontinued, but there are similar ones on page six, starting with #701 I think.
http://www.bearandsoncutlery.com/clientuploads/catalogs/2012_catalog.pdf

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #94)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:00 PM

243. You'd do better with a can of pepper spray and a stout stick

With a knife you have to get in very close proximity to an attacking dog which will virtually guarantee that you get bitten - they are stronger and faster than you. A knife can also backfire on you by cutting yourself with it in the maylay of an attack.

The best defense is a good offense. Walk with a strong walking stick that you can use at a much safer distance from an attacking dog to get it to back off or disable it. Most dogs can be turned off from an attack with minimal force or even just with an aggressive loud voiced approach to tell them to get away. But for those dogs intent on attacking a much stronger offense is needed and the best offense is when some protective distance can be maintained from you and the attacking dog. Always be aware that an attack can and often happens with no warning, so when out walking just be aware of what's going on and be ready to wield a stick on any attacking dog. Bash that attacking dog as hard as you possibly can right on the head and keep bashing it until it stops or until you have to kill it to make it stop. Carry pepper spray and in your hand to be ready for use at any time, and when using it empty the whole contents directly in the attacking dog's face. Dogs are not as adversely effected by pepper spray as humans are, so one blast may do nothing at all, so when using it don't hesitate to empty the whole can in their face.

I'm so sad and angry that your neighborhood is so menacing with problem dogs running loose that you are afraid to own a dog and have to feel for your own personal safety. I'd strongly suggest that you organize a local group of concerned citizens and go to the DA, the mayor, or any elected official and demand they do something about the problem. Get the media involved... no elected official wants bad press insinuating that they don't care about public safety. Your area is more than likely covered by leash laws that are not being enforced, and I don't know of any state that doesn't have a leash law. Print out these laws and bully elected officials with them that they are slacking on enforcement to the detriment of public safety. Make a loud stink. Government slacks when they think they can get away with it, and getting a group of citizens together and making a loud stink over an issue is the only way to get them to not only take the problem seriously but do something about it.

http://leerburg.com/dogattack.htm?set=1


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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:28 PM

91. I believe the day will come soon when this breed will be banned.

 

I would not be saddened to see this.

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Response to The Link (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:30 PM

95. You are not alone

This is why the shelters are filled with them, no one wants them because they don't know they'll be taking home! It could be a great loving dog or ....



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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:28 PM

93. Wow, what a story, I am sick & shaking.........

 

one thing I learned in martial arts & this story confirms it, is ALWAYS GO FOR THE EYES!

This works well if you are being choked from behind.

I used to volunteer at an animal rescue & the Pit Bulls were easy to get along with. I was more afraid of toy dogs with needle teeth.

At any rate for self or dog defense I am now gonna order on of those collapsible batons like cops carry.



http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=collapsable+baton&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

This is a bit too heavy duty, a good head shot could probably kill almost anything. A nice sized can of pepper gas would be good for 1st strike & if it fails pull out the bomb.

I had pepper gas go of in my front pants pocket before, it was no fun.

BTW knives are not that great for a fast kill or to KO something, even with a severed artery it could take a few minutes till a big dog or assailant would be manageable.

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Response to kooljerk666 (Reply #93)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:32 PM

98. Can this collapsable baton serve as a walking cane?

Please let me know. I appreciate your reply. Thank you.

CountAllVotes

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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #98)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:39 PM

108. I do not think so but a HD real heavy duty cane or walking stick is even better........

 

just bigger & heavier & hard to carry & hide.

I learned how to use a staff in kung fu (pretty heavy 6 ft stick).

and was taught saber & knife also.

search google "cane for weapon" i just did & was amazed...........



Taser cane above........

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Response to kooljerk666 (Reply #108)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:53 PM

126. I've used a 7' piece of oak handrail...

I purloined from a construction site years ago.
I had to use it once to defend my neighbors cat from a stray dog, it was a mutt, looked like a rottie mix.
I hit that dog as hard as I could across the back with it and it barely phased that dog.
It took 3 people to run that dog off.
If you're gonna use a bludgeon to fight off a dog, I recommend something made of metal, and aim for the head and try to crush the skull.

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Response to kooljerk666 (Reply #108)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:54 PM

127. the taser cane looks like an option

The handle is one that I can hang on to whereas the baton doesn't have this and you say it is heavy, that wouldn't work too well for me.

Thanks for the reply and I'll look into getting one of these, believe me!

CountAllVotes

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:30 PM

96. So glad you and Milo

are okay. As I read your terrifying post, I couldn't help thinking of what might have happened had a small child been with you.

General ownership of these kinds of dogs should be banned; but until then, people who do choose to own them should be fined and or imprisoned if they fail to train them and keep them restrained at all times.

I adopted a terrior who proved to have a bit of an agressive streak, but rather than abandon him (as had likely happened before), I chose to work with him by going to obedience classes. In the class was a couple who owned a pit bull. The trainer was masterful while the owners (the couple) not only had no control over the animal, but were also remiss in trying to implement/practice the training lessons. For the safety of the other dogs and their owners, the trainer dismissed this couple from the class. I admired his bravado when he also warned them that the dog was a ticking time bomb and one day they would pay in fines and jail time for their irresponsibility. Aware of names and addresses from the enrollment and proof of vaccination forms, he told the rest of us that he was going to alert animal control and the county sheriff (he helps train police dogs) about them.

Anyway, sending good wishes for Milo's recovery.

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Response to Carolina (Reply #96)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:43 PM

112. Many years ago ...

My late father had purchased a smooth Fox Terrier (thoroughbred) for the family. It was a female dog and the plan was to breed her.

Well, said time came and went and the dog did not care to be bred. If I remember right, it was tried to no avail a couple of times and Dad gave up on that idea.

Not too long after this, said dog became very neurotic, pushing a basketball around the backyard non-stop all day long! If you tried to stop her from doing it she'd get really mean and angry and try to bite you.

This behavior got worse. It was so bad that my Dad feared for the family and he decided to take the dog back to the woman he had purchased her from. In order to get the dog he had to grab it by the neck (it tried to bite him) and he had no choice but to put her in an empty trash can and put the lid on it!

Dad finally managed to get the dog back to the woman he'd purchased her from and the woman wanted to know if he wanted a refund. Dad said, "No I don't want a refund! Keep this dog and stop breeding them as this dog is crazy, plain crazy and also dangerous as hell!".

That said, the woman took the dog back and forcibly bred it. Last I heard of it the puppies were not good ones and none of them could be "sold" to be show dogs which was the breeder's goal in this whole chaotic effort.

After that, we never got another dog for many years until my mother came home with a German Shepherd mix from the local shelter and she was from a farm and loaded with cow ticks, etc.

She was a highly devoted dog but one day someone rang the doorbell and the dog jumped the person at the door which was a little girl selling Girl Scout cookies. The dog did not hurt the little girl but it scared her real bad. I remember my Dad ended up mowing the lawns and caring for the parents of the little girl's property for a few years to pay his debt to them rather than have that dog put down.

You never know what you'll "adopt" at a shelter. This much I know. *sigh*


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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #112)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:05 PM

131. so true, but almost all my dogs have been

adoptees and Oscar, the terrier mutt with the cutest face and seemingly lovable demeanor, was the first dog I had ever had a problem with.

I, too, had toyed with returning him to the rescue group, but through training, vigilance and frequent leashing he has progressed immensely and is a keeper. With me and my other adoptee -- a beagle -- he is very sweet. In part, it comes from having a schedule. He realizes he gets fed and allowed out in the fenced yard at regular times. At meal time, he literally has to sit in the corner until I release him (clicker) to come eat. As a result, there is no longer any food aggression and this has translated into good behavior at other times as well.

When people come over, I tell him to "go to your rug" (a cushy, bone-shaped mat) in the family room and he sits quietly there among the visitors. I have also taught guests to ignore him despite the precious face that beckons them to do otherwise. Leaning over to pet him provokes anxiety and hence aggression, so he has to sit/lie on his rug until released. On walks, he is always leashed, and sometimes muzzled, because he does not care for young children who tend to lunge at and/or grab him thanks to the cuteness factor

We're still working with the grooming (paws, face are difficult), but even my vet -- a no nonsense, brilliant guy -- marvels at how far Oscar has come.

Sorry your adoptees didn't work out, but one thing I have learned in the process, is to be ever vigilant with a dog I didn't raise from puppyhood.

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Response to Carolina (Reply #131)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:15 PM

138. well this dog

The fox terrier I am referring to, was a case of what you get when you inbreed; a neurotic mess.

As for the German Shepherd, it was an old farm dog protecting the house. When she heard that bell go off and I was there in the house alone and opened the door, she lunged for what was at the door. It was an instinct at work best I can figure.

I loved that dog btw and nothing like this ever happened again.

As for my poor Dad having to bust his butt like that for two years taking care of these people's property, well, I never knew about this until after he has passed away. My mother told me about it being she was the one that had adopted that dog and she felt really guilty about it. She had a "thing" for German Shepherds.

Ever since this happened and some of the things I've seen around where I now live (a young woman across the road had a black Labrador Retriever that bit her baby in the face and tried to pawn it off on me), I'm very reluctant to get any sort of dog at all.

Maybe things will change someday for me, I don't know. I'd really love to have a service dog as one is really needed around here. For now I have one solitary cat left having lost my other two this past year. I am ...



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Response to CountAllVotes (Reply #138)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:14 PM

177. people are often the problem with dogs

whether it's not taking the time to train or otherwise domesticate the animal or something darker like abuse and neglect.

Case in point, your neighbor's dog bit her baby so she tried to pawn the animal off on you. Who does she think would want a dog with that history? The dog will certainly end up in a shelter and likely euthanized. Don't get me wrong, though, I surely understand her fear, stress, concern about her baby and putting the welfare of the child over that of the dog. But I do wonder how was the dog trained before the baby came into the picture, etc.

If you'd like a dog and don't care to raise a puppy (either from a reputable breeder or from a shelter where litters can be found in abundance), go to a shelter and observe the adult dogs repeatedly, talk with staff members and if/once you settle on a particular animal, get a trainer or go to obedience school. I learned so much from the trainer in my PetSmart class.

BTW, with the exception of my beagle, my other adoptees were puppies that I raised. I also always choose animals in the mid-size weight range of 25-45 pounds, so I know I can physically control them if need be. Lastly, I tend to have 2 dogs at any given time so that (as pack animals) they can keep each other company when the family is out; and also so the older one can "train" the new one to our household routines. This has been a longstanding habit when age or illness reduces our canine population to one.

Anyway, good luck finding just the right animal one day... a good dog is truly man's best friend.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:35 PM

102. Carry bear spray.

What a horrible story. Why did the owners of the attack dogs, have three UNLEASHED pit bulls? There should be a serious penalty for that, in order to discourage.

I'm sorry about your dog though I'm unable to tell from your story. Is the dog okay?

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:38 PM

106. Pit bulls are dangerous animals

 

We need to move toward eliminating them, in terms of no new ownership.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:43 PM

113. Carry pepper spray

Carrying a knife makes you look very suspicious to police. Besides, pepper spray could fend off multiple dogs a lot faster than one person with a knife.

I don't leave home without pepper spray, and it has saved my life on one occasion.

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Response to lbrtbell (Reply #113)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:43 PM

251. Yep , if the OP doesn't want to carry a handgun spray is the next best thing.

 

I see no problem though with him carrying a knife additionally as long as the blade length is legal.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:47 PM

117. I worked for a trainer whose

specialty was retraining aggressive dogs.

I saw firsthand what pits and pit mixes are capable of. I have seen how they latch on to another dog and their eye goes dead like it is the best drug in the world. No amount of hitting or punching will get them to stop. I had to use "Halt" a pepper spray type of product at close range to get them to release.

You need to carry it.

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Response to yankeepants (Reply #117)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:06 PM

153. One thing is for sure

 

That dogs eye also went dead
It must've been damaged severely

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:50 PM

123. Please accept my heartfelt wishes for you and for you dog.....this is terrible

 

But make no bones about it, this is not an issue with a breed of dogs.

it is about the way the dogs are bred and trained. As an attorney I do some "animal law" cases, often involving dog bites.

As a forensic matter, no breed is factually more pre-disposed to attack than any other. I have case references where a dachshund was found to have killed an elderly woman.

This is all about the breeders and the owners. I don't consider "unleashed" animals to be acceptable on any publicly-accessible property. If someone is on their private property they can allow their animal to roam "free". But on any land where public access is available, all animals must be leashed.

Please blame the owners and not the dogs. If a dog is trained to attack and kill, it is irresponsible of the owner. Don't blame this on the animal.

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Response to Swede Atlanta (Reply #123)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:35 PM

144. even so, I would much rather fend off a dachshund

than a pitt any day of the week.

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Response to brokechris (Reply #144)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:00 PM

234. Ever dealt with an angry dachshund?

Remember, they were bred to deal with badgers.

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Response to TrogL (Reply #234)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:02 PM

236. I've dealt with a lot of dogs. n/t

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:52 PM

125. So happy to read

that your dog is okay as well as you and your wife. I happen to like Pit bulls, but no responsible owner would take them in public without a lead...and I do mean a lead, not a leash.

I do hope the owners are found and that you press charges.... Can you imagine if your dog had been a toddler instead?

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:03 PM

129. So glad you and Milo are ok. n/t

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:13 PM

137. I am so sorry to hear about the attack on Milo.

I am glad to hear that he will be better. It must have been such a horrifying experience. I hope you will keep us posted on how the legal case comes out.

A co-worker of mine took in her niece, great-niece and the niece's 3 dogs, one of which is an intact male Pitt. We keep telling our co-worker that the dog should be neutered but she just says that her niece doesn't want to because she might want to breed him. I have tried to tell her the potential pitfalls but she isn't listening. My co-worker is really not a dog savvy person and this could be an accident waiting to happen.

A few streets over from where I live there is a family with a pack of dogs (7 I think). Every once in a while they get loose and it is scary to walk down that street. I started taking a stick with me last year when I would go out walking. Purchasing some of that Halt or Bear Spray is probably a good idea too.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:23 PM

140. omg.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:29 PM

142. SMH

Let me guess the other dogs were off leash correct? People kill me with stupidity Why is your dog not on a fucking leash? I hate people like that, my dog is always on her leash so i can control her and not get into situations like this. We have an off leash dog run around our community he is cute and friendly but guess what he still needs a fucking leash and where are his owners? SMH

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:54 PM

150. Three dogs is a pack. n/t

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:03 PM

152. My 20lb dashchund mix

was similarly attacked by the next door neighbors pit about 14 months ago. We rushed her to the Vet with her neck literally hanging. All the vets in the building left their patients to help save her. They had to sew her tongue back among other things. They still call her their little Miracle. I'm getting chills/tears just thinking about it.

I truthfully considered killing those dogs. But, now they are kept inside.

The same neighbor had another pair of pits when we first moved here about 25years ago. They came into my yard and attacked my 6 month old puppy. I saw them hanging from either side of my puppy's throat. But, my puppy was a six month old Alaskan Malamute/Wolf mix who was at or near 100lbs at the time. He was scared to death and fought back defensively. As I was running towards them (shovel in hand) along with my other Malamute, the owner was running into our yard. The owner managed to get them away as they really couldn't get a grip through the Malamute fur.
I checked my pup from head to toe as he was covered with blood. But, he did not have a scratch on him. His size and breed probably saved his life.

Those dogs disappeared after that attack also. I don't know if he got rid of them or if he started keeping them indoors.

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Response to NOLALady (Reply #152)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:04 PM

167. They won't stay indoors. Plan on seeing them again. nt

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:07 PM

154. Get the most barracuda lawyer you can find! nt

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:39 PM

160. So what did your dog do to deserve the attack?

 

Yes, I'm being sarcastic! Clearly I've been reading too many rape threads here lately.

AND rather than a knife with gives you limited distance, try a can of pepperspray. Gives you a longer reach, and yes perhaps your dog would also receive a tad of the spray but it's not deadly so I'm thinking better than the damage a stray, unattended, or vicious animal might cause it.

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Response to Lionessa (Reply #160)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:01 PM

166. I would have gladly sprayed to both dogs

 

To end the attack , I was getting very desperate

I just bought a knife from the dive shop
I won't be going anywhere without it

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #166)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:18 PM

168. A knife is a really bad and useless choice, truly,

 

,particularly a small 4 in one, put it in your pocket to feel good, then go get a can of pepperspray which might actually work. Or a weighted walking stick to whack something with. A 4" blade requires you to be able to get really close, which won't always be possible or reasonable depending on the circumstances. You need something that can work from 4-8 ft away.

Just saying, you're only giving yourself a false sense of security with a dinky 4" knife, or really any knife that requires you to be able to catch up to a dog who doesn't want to be caught up to, or is in a violent frame of mind, or both.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:41 PM

161. ((((Milo))))

 



My rescues and I hope for a speedy recovery for you and Milo.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:22 PM

170. Stranger jumps out of bushes, stabs woman walking dog in chest several times,


She dies in daughter's arms. He runs off, still still loose a month or so later, as I recall Here.

It almost always pays to be aware of your surroundings. And know that you are in far less danger from dogs than we are from people. Especially if they run corporations.

That whole knife thing is a tv fantasy. You will be better off with good bear spray, a working cell phone, a good stick, and enough maturity to walk away where you can, even though I know it's not easy with 3 large, mean, unidentifiable dogs.

Assuming this is more or less factual, sorry for your trouble.














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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:27 PM

171. My 30 lb dog

has been attacked on three separate occasions by three separate pitbulls, all of whom were described as "family-friendly". I now carry mace and a big stick on walks. And I have a hard time buying that it's all due to bad owners.

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Response to teenagebambam (Reply #171)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:43 PM

174. If the dog is off the leash it is a "bad owner" - period

I don't care what breed it is. You have to be an idiot to allow your dog to run loose. Dogs are predators, just a few genes short of wolves. They have to be protected from their own instincts.

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Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #174)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:41 PM

200. Our dog is off the leash

 

when walking in the woods and there are no other humans or dogs near by. She's 14 years old bitch, mostly various shepard genes, and no hunting instinct what so ever and totally ignores wild animals, is not interested in other dogs except smelling and leaving pee marks, has never run away and stays always in sight and close by, and comes back to leash immediately every time told. And she enjoys being of leash on those rare occasions she has opportunity.

So yes, we are "bad owners" and take our chances, but considering the extremely small risk against how happy she is to be off leash in the woods, we don't mind being considered "bad owners" and "idiots" by some people.

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Response to tama (Reply #200)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:59 PM

203. Sure, off in the woods somewhere is fine but

I am talking about a park that is only a few acres where people do that all the time. I don't appreciate someone's dog running at me and my dog full speed like he about to attack until called off by his owner. I live in NJ where there are virtually no real remote areas you speak of.

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Response to Jersey Devil (Reply #203)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:44 AM

218. Understood

 

Making categorical absolute statements usually runs into some trouble. And also, in many places hunters and hunting dogs still hunt together...

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:23 PM

181. So sorry to hear this. Hope Milo will be ok.

This may sound weird, but it I've actually seen it work a most desperate situation: Grab them by the balls.

To all my fellow dog lovers out there: Do not get a breed you are not ready for/cannot control. Do your freaking research. If you can't control your dog, get help.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:29 PM

183. Well the sheriff called

 

They went to the address and the house was boarded and locked like somebody just fled town

These people may have disappeared to save their dogs, It would be very unfortunate if the scenario played out again in some other city
The police said they are not done yet with the investigation
Can I still go to small claims court and get a judgment passed on these people ?

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #183)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:21 PM

245. sounds more like they gave a false address

of a house they knew was boarded up and abandoned. People who flee the law don't take the time to board up the doors and windows particularly since there really isn't any reason to.

I doubt this is the first time their dogs have attacked. People who give false info as to who they are and where they live have normally already had run-ins with the law.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:36 PM

186. I'm terribly sorry.

How horrible.

And a good reminder by several to carry pepper spray along on walks. I've been complacent about that.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:58 PM

193. How terrible for you.....

My daughter has a pit bull mix (golden retriever). She is a pussycat, trained, and socialized. But she is always on a lease when walking around. But now that I think about it, my daughter does let her off the lease in isolated area so she can get some exercise. I will give her a heads up, but she is very careful.

Edited to add, I will soon be getting a heeler-pit mix. I am already making plans for training. These dogs are wonderful but require careful handling. I am reading up on them now.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:19 PM

196. Sorry to hear that, hope your dog makes a full recovery.

 

I hope your dog makes a full recovery, next time you should carry some pepper spray or even a taser with you. However I must say that I'm reading a lot of Pit bashing here. My 15 pound chihuahua/terrier mutt was attacked once by a loose pitbull, he needed about 10 stitches on his left hind leg.

However the main reason these dogs turn out the way they do is because their irresponsible owners. The pitbull demonization has gone far enough that cities and countries have banned the breed. Pit bulls were considered America's nanny dog because they are wonderful with children.

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Response to muse03 (Reply #196)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:24 PM

207. I won't do pit bashing

Pit breeds can be wonderful family dogs. I've known several that are absolutely great with kids. What people need to get, though, is that if you have a pit breed you have to put in a lot of work before they can be really safe around other dogs.

Hell, I've been around wolf/German Shepherd mixes. Beautiful animals, but NOT family "dogs", not by a long shot. And I wouldn't even let one of those loose w/an unstable pit, for fear of the wolf/GSD mix.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:36 PM

199. Where is the NRA when we really need them?

How about a "Stand your ground" targeting pit bulls?

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Response to Ernesto (Reply #199)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:08 PM

237. Not Really Applicable in this thread.

 

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:42 PM

201. 2 things

I am very sorry this happened to you, it is horrible, I hope this trauma does not last long. My dog was attacked by a seeing eye dog that was loose once, but once I realized what was happening, when he had my dog in his teeth, I started yelling bad dog and and it let go. I was lucky. we bad dogged it back until we got it back to the owner's home. Another time I was surrounded by a pack of mixed breed dogs in the city, but a bus came and I jumped on and escaped them.

I had heard the way to make a pit bull let go (or any dog) is to grab the inside thigh of the dog and squeeze. Most people go for the neck and that is pretty strong.

second thing is I have watched pit bulls in the shelter, walked and cared for them and found them sweeter than some other dogs - collies are short tempered for sure. the problem with pit bulls is they are bread to have strong jaws, other than that, you are probably just as much in danger with any other large breed.


The owner is responsible for every thing that goes wrong. When my relatively unsocialized dog got out., i feel I was responsible for anything she did, which was basically poop on other people's lawns. but dos should be on leashes unless in dog park, and in our dog park we have a woman who believes she is the dog park police and bans people who's dogs misbehave. We have had a few incidents, but they were "banned" and we have not seen them again. I keep an emergency medical kit in my car for these incidents with gauze and antiseptic, etc.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:55 PM

202. Sending positive thought and many many hugs

to all of you and wishes for a full recovery.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:13 PM

204. Pet Pitt bull = penis extension.

 

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:23 PM

206. I once saw a pack of three disassemble a cat

The owner was flailing on them as well as he could with a rubber hose, to no effect at all. A baseball bat would have perhaps been more effective, hard to tell. Once they each had their own parts of it, the action slowed up a bit. If there were pit bulls roaming the neighborhood, I would not venture walking my dog with less than a bat in hand.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:29 PM

213. Sounds odd but..

I've stopped a dog attacking my dog by pulling it's tail, hard. It surprises the attacking dog into turning its head which may be just enough time for
your dog to get away. Of course you run the risk of getting bitten. 3 pit bulls? That's scarey s**t.

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Response to dooner (Reply #213)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:52 AM

222. I was desperate and would've preferred

 

That the pitbull let go of my dog and grab onto me
I felt like my dog was about to die and I knew this dog wasn't going to kill me

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:07 PM

215. Welcome to DU, but I have to ask HOW you knew that they were Pit Bulls.

This is a big issue here on DU for several reasons.

First of all, because so many breeds are mistaken for Pit Bulls but are actually other breeds.
Secondly, because so many breeds have been mistaken for Pit Bulls that Breed-specific lawas have been passed.
The CDC is often quoted, but they are actually AGAINST breed-specific legislation.
Pit Bulls are actually some of the most family-friendly breeds historically.

Did you know that pit-bulls have been iconoclast as some of the most American dogs in the history os the US?

As a dog-lover, I could see that some clueless person who had no control over their mixed-breed dogs allowed them to attack your legally restrained dog.

But don't try to blame it on the breed, or on the dogs.

I'm not trying to denigrate what happened to your dog - there are larger implications. Please be aware of those.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #215)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:55 AM

226. Pick out the PITBULL......

 

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Here are 25 dogs, only 1 is a pit bull.

Pit Bulls used to be smaller like 45lbs.
What we see today are just big mutts so BSL is not a way to deal with them.

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Response to kooljerk666 (Reply #226)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:46 AM

231. Good post

K & R

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Response to kooljerk666 (Reply #226)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:01 PM

244. dogs 5, 15, and 25 look powerful! Look at those muscles.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #215)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:54 AM

232. I disagree

 

Pit bulls have been trained and bred to fight other dogs .... Something we don't see on such a wide scale with other dogs

This is a simple fact that cannot be ignored

I have a husky that has bitten other dogs when he was protecting a bone when approached to closely , but time and time again we see Pits attacking unprovoked
The second the pack of pits saw my dog they were out for blood

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:26 PM

217. I'm looking forward to you proving up your claim. n/t

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Response to flvegan (Reply #217)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:46 AM

221. Lol

 

I feel zero need to prove anything to you

And for those asking how I knew they were pit bulls I kept referring to them as pit bulls and the owners didn't correct me

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #221)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:45 PM

262. Good for you. Proves nothing. next?

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Response to flvegan (Reply #217)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:24 PM

246. The details seemed very believable to me.

My husband has been in situations with aggressive dogs before. I'm going to ask if he carries a pocket knife; that's probably a good idea.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #246)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:32 PM

250. a far better idea is pepper spray and a stout walking stick

A knife means you have to get into physical close proximity to an attacking dog which virtually guarantees you get bit. Far better to use a weapon that can be wielded at a safer distance before an attacking dog gets the opportunity to get their teeth into anything. Pepper spray doesn't adversely effect dogs as much as it does humans, therefore when using it be prepared to empty the whole can into the dog's face rather than take your chances with a single blast of it. Pepper spray is also of little use when you have to fumble for it in a purse or pocket. Most dog attacks occur suddenly, so having a weapon on hand that can be immediately put to use is ideal and may make all the difference.

http://leerburg.com/dogattack.htm?set=1


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #250)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:38 PM

254. Thank you! n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #254)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:12 PM

256. you're very welcome

Being prepared is the best defense. Always being on the lookout and noting your surroundings is the best bet. A simple nearby trashcan lid makes a good shield or garden bricks or stones from a nearby yard make decent emergency weapons. But just generally being on guard makes for a good start.

Man it just chaps my butt that people can't just walk around in their neighborhood with or without their dogs without having to worry about loose aggressive dogs especially when most of them aren't strays but some jackass owns but allowed to roam free.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #246)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:47 PM

263. Thanks for your opinion. n/t

Pocket knife. LOL!

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:35 PM

249. When will people learn . . .

. . . That a dogs are pack animals. And even the sweetest dogs can, under the right circumstances (particularly when part of an unleashed group of dogs), behave viciously.

Are you, your wife and your dog all okay?

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:07 PM

253. Bf and I saved a neighbor's dog from a pit mix several weeks ago.

I had to literally throw myself in between the dogs several times while bf hit the attacking dog with tree limbs. The neighbor's dog survived but it was horrible, if I'm still having nightmares I can imagine how traumatized the dog is.

This same pit mix bit my horse's leg last year when I was riding. Owner promised to keep dog tied or kenneled but you know how that goes. I love all animals but if that one ever goes near my horses again I will kill it.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:53 PM

259. my little guy was attacked by a pit a couple years ago...

seriously tired of us being constantly approached by large unleashed dogs. seems like once a month.

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Response to Mangoman (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 07:04 AM

268. I'm sorry, but your story simply doesn't seem believable,

 

I've worked with pits and other dogs a good portion of my life, including dealing with vicious dogs and breaking up fights. Your description of what happened simply doesn't seem terribly believable. Among other things, frankly if you had gouged out a pit's eye, you would be in the hospital.

Oh, and one doesn't simply get "bit" by a pit bull, one has body parts laid wide open by a pit bull.

I don't know why you putting together this concoction, though I have my suspicions. If this isn't some story full of hot air, please post evidence to the contrary. You say you have pictures, and as others have mentioned, such an event should make the local news.

Sorry, but your description seems over the top, and not consistent with even vicious dog behavior.

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