HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Divorce....?

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:56 AM

Divorce....?

I posted something like this on DU a while back... somewhat tongue in cheek. And got my ass handed to me.
- - - - -
http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2019802934_paulvanderveldonenationxml.html

"We in the blue states hear from the talking heads on Fox News and MSNBC that many of you in the red states are so distressed about the outcome of the elections that you would like to secede from the Union......A lot of historians have argued that we would have been a whole lot better off going our separate ways in 1861. Sure, Abe Lincoln was a Republican then, but today hed be as blue as the ocean. He tried. He thought we could transcend our differences and learn to live with one another.
Even the Lincolns of the world make mistakes. Its time to move on. We wish you well, and let us know how its working out."
- - - - - -
Ok... I'm pretty convinced that divorce is out of the question, but now... seriously... how are we to survive as a country as deeply divided as we are? How do we make a country from (basically) two diametrically opposite world views? Not just politics, but economic issues, social issues, medical issues, scientific issues... hell, personal issues!

Education...? Good luck with that. Some states are actually regressing.. creationism and revisionist histories about the KKK are examples.

Time...? Just wait the old folks out..? Their thinning ranks are being replaced by the brainwashed youngsters. And how long can we wait, anyway...? Global climate change, depletion of resources, poverty and income equality are not really long-term problems anymore.

So... what's the plan? If not divorce... what do we do? Just sit around and watch things (further) turn to shit?

(please spare me the "elect good people" simplistic bullshit)

10 replies, 1767 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread

Response to Bigmack (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:20 AM

1. Germany to this day is still divided and yet remains one.

 

As a kid I grew up watching old WWII era movies on TV with Nazis and seeing footage about the Holocaust. Then I grew up and went out in the world and met , worked with, and hung out with people from Germany. I also know people in the military who have gone to Germany

We had open conversations about Germany and it is how I learned they have deep political divisions also. I also looked into historical accounts and this was verified. For instance Hitler had a love/hate relationship with Berliners. He admired and envied their creativity and artistic accomplishments but absolutely hated their openness. If they did not adhere to his philosophy then he crushed them and many Berliners were put in camps and executed. He loved the Bavarian religious zeal and rightwing philosophy.

A nation with different regions holding differing political views can remain united. We had a war to prove that. They didn't surrender then and many paid with their lives. We would be cowardly and dishonoring them to give up now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bigmack (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:20 AM

2. Well, for starters

we ignore the secessionists. Alaska (where else?) has the highest percentage of citizens who signed the petition to secede...a whopping 1.74%. The percentage of Texans looking to secede stands at 0.46%. The divisiveness was created by the Republican party and while we have always endured some contentiousness in government, the problem will be resolved when the GOP learns that their policy of 'divide and conquer' is no longer a winning strategy for winning the WH, that most coveted of prizes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bigmack (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:29 AM

3. Red States are still almost half blue.

I think park of the objection stems from the fact that there are so many of us who would be left behind. I don't love Texas. Honestly, I hate it here. But, I truly feel trapped with aging parents that we can't bear to leave behind.

Transitions like this would not happen quickly, however. Plans to move North percolate in my mind constantly. It could take a decade or more to successfully break apart a union. Thoughtful people could start now proposing serious strategies for a successful "divorce". If ideas, solutions, and proposals included a reasonable strategy for managing all the movement that will inevitably happen, then perhaps the discussion would be taken more seriously. Personally, I don't think it is a bad idea to start a discussion like this.

There will always be purist who are cemented in the whole "one nation, under God, indivisible" mantra. They probably won't be open to such a discussion.

(Snark Alert) I was hoping the rapture of 2011 would solve all our problems.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rainin (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:18 PM

7. I have always disliked the South. Sherman and Sheridan are my heroes because of the damage

their armies did to the South. I even overlook that Sherman questioned the equality of Black people. But this talk about breaking up the Union, while fun to talk about, especially from my deep blue state perch, is nonsense. You correctly point out that South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, North Dakota and Arizona voted over 40% blue. I consider Virginia, North Carolina and Florida blue states if we democrats manage the economy properly and field a strong candidate, President Obama won two of the three, even with him having to clean up Bush's mess. North Carolina would have easily been in our camp with a better economy.

Our approach must be to build blue organizations in red states. We must grow blue numbers in red states by building the same coalitions that deliver blue states to us, the types of people and their justifications are the very same as for the counterparts in blue states. Those blue organizations could deliver Georgia, Arizona and Texas to our column in short order and cause humiliation for republicans in states like South Carolina, North Dakota, Georgia and Mississippi, forcing those states to stay out long on election night before being called. The more important aspect of building blue organizations in red states is development of democrat candidates in those states that can win there. Lastly, we need to get past looking down on southern democrats that aren't as progressive as candidates from most blue states, over time those people will track the rest of society, we just need to show their southern voters that our view of the world is the view that works best for us and southern voters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bluestate10 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:24 PM

8. I wish I had your optimism.

I live here. These people are stupid. Even the ones who hold professional positions (medical, management, small business owners, banking), they are hopelessly simple-minded. I gave up about a year ago after years of thinking that the truth would prevail. To my utter dismay, it just got worse.

I'm not discounting your approach. Since dissolution may, in fact, be impossible, dems and progressives have to be smart. I'm not sure where you get your optimism as Republicans have shown determination to steal elections. With republicans controlling all three branches in Texas, they get to make the rules. We know what they do when they get to make the rules.

You would think that the minorities and the poor would fight back in the southern states. I don't understand why they don't. With our demographics, we could tip the scales. For some reason, turnout is poor here. Sigh.

Having said this, if we stay, we will do what we can to turn it around. In my heart, I want to leave.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rainin (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:39 PM

9. The very problems that you pointed out as making the situation impossible are the very

reasons why the southern problem will continue. Southern republicans control and gerrymander because the good people down there don't put up the good fight. Right thinking southern Whites don't work with Blacks, Hispanics and Asians to build winning numbers. A White that understand the southern problem a need to fix it don't think that he or she has standing in Black, Hispanic or Asian communities, that is true, but like minded members of those communities do. So what a White, or Black, or Hispanic, or Asian that want to bring about change must amplify their influence by coordinating with members of other racial and ethnic group to develop voting coalitions. The leaders can meet regularly to track progress and make voter outreach adjustments. The key to changing the South is using voting coalitions to take over local politics, develop candidates that can run for state level office then take over statewide control. The party that is most successful at organizing gets to gerrymander districts and increase their control.

You and like minded southerners can continue to dream about escaping to blue states, that would work, you will increase our numbers. Or, you can patiently take control to your places of birth and drive those locations toward sane politics and greater economic diversity and performance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bigmack (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:51 AM

4. "diametrically"? There ARE differences, but 100% opposed? I don't think so. Therefore, one thing

we could do, as in any relationship, is to honestly recognize whatever it is that is exacerbating whatever the degree of difference there is that is inherent to a situation.

One thing we might admit about our sacred cows that could be causing un-necessary stress on relationships is to take the hit on how military spending could be an important factor there. What you said about how our troubles with the South date from the time of Abe Lincoln made me think of the military factor, because, though that was an important time and our subsequent failures in Reconstruction of the South made it even worse, there have been opportunities since then in which most of our problems were discounted again.

What I'm thinking of here has something important to do with one of our most admired Presidents ever, Harry S. Truman, who ran against Roosevelt's VP, Henry Wallace, http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1754.html , a progressive labor advocate, who sought not only to address racism in Southern Democrats, but also wanted to address the coming arms race that has soooooooooooooo depleted the resources of this country and contributed to the rooting, at that particular time, of the MIC in our economy.

If Democrats had recognized the necessity of dealing with those two issues, racism and MIC, at that time, what?, 2 decades ahead of when critical mass was finally achieved in the Civil Rights movement, and, if you count now as the point at which we are finally addressing the oppressive economic and cultural power of MIC, say, 50 years ahead of some redress of those budget priorities that have contributed to American Imperalism abroad and economic oppression here at home, we'd be much further ahead on the issues that made a fundamentally bad situation with the South that we inherited from the Civil War far worse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bigmack (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:50 PM

5. purple haze

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 03:39 PM

6. Dunno how that relates... but it looks like it's all sticky and full of trichomes. MMMM...nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:45 PM

10. I am square. What does "purple haze" mean or stand for? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread