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Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:51 AM

If You're Going To College, You Must See This Chart Of Tuition Growth Vs. Wage Growth

http://www.businessinsider.com/growth-in-college-tuition-vs-growth-in-earnings-for-college-graduates-2012-11

This is a great chart from Citi (just tweeted by Tracy Alloway) that says a lot about why people are worried about student debt.



The New York Fed reported yesterday that student debt loads have now hit $956 billion, up $42 billion from last quarter.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/growth-in-college-tuition-vs-growth-in-earnings-for-college-graduates-2012-11#ixzz2DuFrvGBp

24 replies, 2176 views

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Reply If You're Going To College, You Must See This Chart Of Tuition Growth Vs. Wage Growth (Original post)
xchrom Dec 2012 OP
orwell Dec 2012 #1
Iris Dec 2012 #3
exboyfil Dec 2012 #8
femrap Dec 2012 #22
aandegoons Dec 2012 #2
Iris Dec 2012 #6
aandegoons Dec 2012 #19
Iris Dec 2012 #21
exboyfil Dec 2012 #13
aandegoons Dec 2012 #18
exboyfil Dec 2012 #20
femrap Dec 2012 #23
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #4
Iris Dec 2012 #7
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #12
exboyfil Dec 2012 #16
pipoman Dec 2012 #5
Iris Dec 2012 #9
pipoman Dec 2012 #11
salvorhardin Dec 2012 #10
HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #14
xchrom Dec 2012 #15
FSogol Dec 2012 #17
mythology Dec 2012 #24

Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:55 AM

1. Translation...

...become a plumber.

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Response to orwell (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:59 AM

3. Or, keep undergrad costs as low as possible and plan on getting a master's

But I also totally agree with the plumber idea.

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Response to orwell (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:04 AM

8. My advice to my daughter

become an engineer and marry a plumber (or electrician or nurse or auto mechanic). Don't marry another engineer - the logistics become difficult and the same thing that takes your job down will expose your spouse.

Engineering is still a good degree to get even though they make it more expensive because of differential tuition. Advice I would have would be take as many community college classes as you can before going on campus. My daughter is a high school junior/community college freshman in preengineering. I have had to pay for several classes to get her to this point, but now the school district will be paying for the classes (possibly up to 47 hours - three semesters). She has a good shot of going on campus at our state school as a junior and graduating in two years.

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Response to orwell (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:46 PM

22. Physical Therapist

 

would be better with the aging population.

If there isn't much construction going on, you're just hoping for repairs and very cold winters.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:58 AM

2. The thing is tuition is only a part of the cost.

All the other cost are just as bad. Room and Board now are about 12k for two semesters.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:01 AM

6. I teach one day a week at a satellite campus

Students there are trying to get at least 2 years while living at home. Of course, in my state, there used to be a system of 2 years schools for that very purpose but they are slowly disappearing.

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Response to Iris (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:21 PM

19. If any more dissapear we in the rural section of the country will never be able to afford.

College for our kids.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:45 PM

21. I know what you mean.

It's one of the things about higher ed that keeps me up at night.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:29 AM

13. I was thinking about the injustice in the school board plan

My daughter is small and eats like a bird. The meal plans at are state schools are all you can eat and amount to $7.50 for lunch/dinner and $5.00 for breakfast (assuming 14 meals/week which is about the most realistic level).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:19 PM

18. Ya no kidding.

My daughter is also very small. 14 meals a week is what we went with since it had more choices with more spending dollars in the account and she said it is still too much. The sad thing is we have no other choices since a meal plan is required as a freshman.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:37 PM

20. The meal plan has a disparate impact on women

Wonder if it could be grounds for a lawsuit?

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:48 PM

23. That sucks....

 

maybe she can feed the poor. If she knows where they congregate, just leave the food there. I used to do that.

And again, the dudes rule....they eat more and the women pay for it. NOT FAIR.

In my day, we had 2 choices: 3 meals a day or 1 meal a day.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:00 AM

4. I'd like to see a similar graph with median faculty salaries vs

a breakdown of other college costs.

Most faculties at two year and four year colleges in the midwest have been Walmartized. In this region, upwards of 45% of instruction is being done by part-timers at minimized wages and for no benefits.

It would be interesting to have an idea where that money has been going.


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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:03 AM

7. Faculty? 6 figure administrators now outnumber full-time faculty on most campuses.

Walmartized is a good word for this. Except that the product is now way more expensive and the quality diminished.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:22 AM

12. Not a graph, but some articles--

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober_2011/features/administrators_ate_my_tuition031641.php



<snip>

Forty years ago, America’s colleges employed more professors than administrators. The efforts of 446,830 professors were supported by 268,952 administrators and staffers. Over the past four decades, though, the number of full-time professors or “full-time equivalents”—that is, slots filled by two or more part-time faculty members whose combined hours equal those of a full-timer—increased slightly more than 50 percent. That percentage is comparable to the growth in student enrollments during the same time period. But the number of administrators and administrative staffers employed by those schools increased by an astonishing 85 percent and 240 percent, respectively.

Today, administrators and staffers safely outnumber full-time faculty members on campus. In 2005, colleges and universities employed more than 675,000 fulltime faculty members or full-time equivalents. In the same year, America’s colleges and universities employed more than 190,000 individuals classified by the federal government as “executive, administrative and managerial employees.” Another 566,405 college and university employees were classified as “other professional.” This category includes IT specialists, counselors, auditors, accountants, admissions officers, development officers, alumni relations officials, human resources staffers, editors and writers for school publications, attorneys, and a slew of others. These “other professionals” are not administrators, but they work for the administration and serve as its arms, legs, eyes, ears, and mouthpieces.

<snip>

While some administrative posts continue to be held by senior professors on a part-time basis, their ranks are gradually dwindling as their jobs are taken over by fulltime managers. College administrations frequently tout the fiscal advantages of using part-time, “adjunct” faculty to teach courses. They fail, however, to apply the same logic to their own ranks. Over the past thirty years, the percentage of faculty members who are hired on a part-time basis has increased so dramatically that today almost half of the nation’s professors work only part-time. And yet the percentage of administrators who are part-time employees has fallen during the same time period.

Administrators are not only well staffed, they are also well paid. Vice presidents at the University of Maryland, for example, earn well over $200,000, and deans earn nearly as much. Both groups saw their salaries increase as much as 50 percent between 1998 and 2003, a period of financial retrenchment and sharp tuition increases at the university. The University of Maryland at College Park—which employs six vice presidents, six associate vice presidents, five assistant vice presidents, six assistants to the president, and six assistants to the vice presidents—has long been noted for its bloated and extortionate bureaucracy, but it actually does not seem to be much of an exception. Administrative salaries are on the rise everywhere in the nation. By 2007, the median salary paid to the president of a doctoral degree-granting institution was $325,000. Eighty-one presidents earned more than $500,000, and twelve earned over $1 million. Presidents, at least, might perform important services for their schools. Somewhat more difficult to explain is the fact that by 2010 even some of the ubiquitous and largely interchangeable deanlets and deanlings earned six-figure salaries.



AAUP has figures on how the faculty pay scale has not kept pace with that of the administration. http://chronicle.com/article/faculty-salaries-barely-budge-2012/131432/



The report, titled “A Very Slow Recovery,” sends a firm message: Professors’ pay is not the problem. It paints a picture of stagnation for full-time faculty salaries that, on average, rose 1.8 percent in the 2011-12 academic year, an increase that was swallowed up by a 3-percent inflation rate. When adjusted for inflation, faculty salaries fell by an average of 1.2 percent.

Over the past three decades, according to the report, tuition has increased at a much faster rate than full-time faculty salaries. The contrast is starkest at public institutions, where tuition and fees have increased over the past decade by 72 percent when accounting for inflation, largely in response to declines in state support. During that same time, the salaries of public-college professors, when adjusted for inflation, rose by less than 1 percent at doctoral and baccalaureate institutions and fell by more than 5 percent at master’s universities.

The price of college also has gone up, the report says, at the same time that institutions have increasingly relied on part-time faculty, whose wages are significantly lower than full-time professors’ and often do not come with benefits.

Meanwhile, the association also notes, college presidents’ average salaries were relatively sheltered from the effects of furloughs and pay cuts in the years following the recession. The gap between the pay of presidents and professors continues to grow. Between 2006-7 and 2010-11, median presidential salaries jumped by 9.8 percent, when adjusted for inflation, while median full-time faculty salaries rose by less than 2 percent.





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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:42 AM

16. Go to this website

to see the administrative structure of a state flagship university.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~our/opmanual/app/

Open up the various tabs to see the structure and names. It would be good to try to come up with a list for which functions are unnecessary.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:00 AM

5. I believe that state institutions

should be required to charge foreign (international) students at a rate which would pay full tuition for one resident student. These state institutions screwing state residents while admitting 40% international students should be disallowed..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:05 AM

9. Whatever for?

This makes no sense. I've worked in rural schools with high percentages of international students and they enrich the campus and the classes they are in. If the students are truly from other countries and not children of immigrants, than they are already paying a higher rate of tuition.

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Response to Iris (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:08 AM

11. Not high enough.

Oh, and most international students are 1%ers in their country, here competing with the children of blue collar workers for spots in state schools where their parent's income taxes have enriched the board of Regents for a lifetime. Competition for these spots is what has driven the cost of secondary education through the roof..

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:05 AM

10. Bloomberg says college costs aren't really increasing

The inflation-adjusted net price of college has risen only modestly over the last two decades, according to data from the College Board's Annual Survey of Colleges. ... At four-year public universities, the average sticker price for tuition and fees has risen 127 percent in real terms, from $3,810 in 1992 to $8,660 in this academic year. But only $990 of this $4,850 increase in sticker price, or 20 percent, is due to increases in net cost. The remaining 80 percent is price discrimination. ... In other words, the cost burden of college has become significantly more progressive since the 1990s. Students from wealthier families not only now pay more for their own educations but also have come to heavily subsidize the costs of the less fortunate.

From: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-27/misconceptions-101-why-college-costs-aren-t-soaring.html


If real inflation-adjusted net tuitions aren't increasing, or increasing only modestly, then why is student debt load so high? Could it be that the real problem is that real college assistance has declined precipitously?

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:31 AM

14. It's called "By the Short Hairs".

Those assholes know you need this degree to even get your resume viewed.

You want a better life in this country, you're going to have to COUGH UP.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:42 AM

15. trying to choke money out of the future - before it's even been earned - is going to kill us. nt

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:44 AM

17. If you are going to college, get this book:

"Debt-Free U, How I Paid for an Outstanding College Education Without Loans, Scholarships, or Mooching off My Parents" – Zac Bissonnette

I have no financial connection to this book, it merely shows how college can be made affordable. Good book for anyone going to or sending someone to college.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:02 PM

24. This chart gives a rather slanted view

just like when it was posted yesterday. Yes student loan debt is a problem, but education is still the best investment in yourself you can make.

Expected income earnings and likelihood of being employed both go up dramatically by having a bachelor's degree, far outweighing the costs of going to school over time.



http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

The reason that college costs are going up is because it costs more now, more administrative staff, more technology needs, more athletic department costs, students having higher standards (better dorms, better science labs, etc).

I know the university I used to work at spent ever increasing amounts on software because it was expected that we not only provide computer labs with relevant software, but also site licenses so students could run the software on their own computers. There was a significant strain on network access because students are all coming with multiple devices to attach to the network.

Additionally the university was trying to significantly improve campus facilities. From dining rooms, to upgrading older class buildings. Why? In order to compete for the best students they could get.

There are ways to limit your college costs. Go to a community college for your basic classes (to quote Proust is still Proust, even at UCLA), or go to a state university rather than a private school or an out of state school, live at home during college rather than in a dorm. Also don't screw around when you go to college. I took several years off after high school, but when I went back, I graduated in 3 years because I was ready after humping crappy jobs without a degree.

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