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Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:15 PM

Rape, Violence against women, etc... Are my, my friends, and my families attitudes odd in America

I am seeing multiple threads on rape tonight. Was I raised and do I live in a different world then most Americans? If I ever hit a women or raped someone, my family would fucking disown me. I don't think my friends would talk to me (or maybe they would, but I know my family wouldn't). I always considered the attitudes of my family boarder line conservative/sexist. In fact, my parants are conservative and hold the view that women are to be almost protected. Opening doors, letting them eat first, etc.

In other words, I would never think about using violence against a women. Nor do I think of my friends as doing that or would do that. Yet, I see all these rape statistics. It doesn't make since to me, on some level.

Am I living in a bubble?

11 replies, 1094 views

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Reply Rape, Violence against women, etc... Are my, my friends, and my families attitudes odd in America (Original post)
BrentWil Dec 2012 OP
PDJane Dec 2012 #1
BrentWil Dec 2012 #2
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #3
BrentWil Dec 2012 #5
Igel Dec 2012 #11
Blasphemer Dec 2012 #4
BrentWil Dec 2012 #6
Blasphemer Dec 2012 #7
RobertEarl Dec 2012 #8
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #9
raccoon Dec 2012 #10

Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:25 PM

1. I don't think so, no.

I do think that there are a number of men, like serial pedophiles or serial killers, who commit more than their fair share of these crimes. I think there are seriously damaged and abusive men, and I know they continue to abuse because it's the only way they can function. When they say they need the woman or man that they are abusing, it's literally true. They need someone to abuse in the way that others need someone to love.

The reason that there seems to be more of them is that they do so much damage, and they almost never stop.

However, there are real dangers to the business of putting women on a pedestal, too; that is a very lofty and uncomfortable place to be. What happens when a woman falls from that lofty perch? There is violence there, and it's hidden.

I would very much like to be treated as a person, please; a person who just happens to have talents, and brains, and abilities. Realize that the only thing different between me and thee are human differences, and the plumbing.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:29 PM

2. I think my parants attitudes aren't perfect and condensing....

However, but then violence and rape, I think

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:53 PM

3. Plenty of men commit "date" rape without even thinking what they do is rape.

That is why the date rape issue became so big recently. And by date rape I don't just mean guys who drug a woman acquaintance at a party, but also any situation where a male acquaintance has sex with a women who is badgered constantly until she "gives in". We guys are socialized to think that "maybe" is "yes" and that "no" is "maybe".

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:20 PM

5. Well begging is certainly annoying...

Calling sex with someone that has said yes, no matter how many times it is asked, is not rape. Women are adults and they can say no or yes.

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Response to BrentWil (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:14 AM

11. Not how it works.

If a girl drinks more than she should, says yes, even winds up in the guy's bed first, it's still rape. She was incapacitated. The drunk guy is to be her protector.

That's also violence, and in many discourses there's no difference between that scenario and chasing a woman, hitting her over the head, and forcibly raping her.

To make the crime as widespread and as urgent an issue as possible, the definitions have blurred and broadened in my lifetime. Rape has gone from something that's violent to something that's ambiguous, and whether something is rape is up to the woman's discretion after the fact. It won't be punished in court, but gets reported in surveys as rape.

Even as the definitions have broadened, that rape = violence = oppression has continued to be asserted, so more and more things are judged violent. At some point the advocates' conscious manipulation of the language produce more cynics among males, and even some females, than supporters.

And since victims are never responsible for their own victimization, virtually by definition, it makes for the situation in which the drunk guy at his own party, finding a naked inebriated girl inviting him into his own bed, has to be the girl's guardian and show his inherent superior wisdom derived, apparently, from the simple fact that he has testicles and a penis. A rare occurrence, to be sure, but reductiones ad absurdum don't have to be the most common case.

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:55 PM

4. I don't know....

I've mainly avoided the more contentious threads because of how frustrating these discussions can be. I have a close family member who, though generally very left-leaning, has many problematic views about women, feminism and gender issues due to his upbringing and a race-related false rape accusation. No matter how carefully we tread, we both end up extremely frustrated when we try to discuss these kinds of issues. There just seems to be an experiential block that we can't get past and reading those threads, it makes me feel like I'm staring at this immovable block that I desperately want to figure out how to move.

I really don't know the answer to your question. In my family as well, these things are certainly known to be wrong on every level but at the same time, there has been sexual abuse and domestic violence, some of it many decades in the past, that has gone unprosecuted. Men who have been violent in the past have been taken care of in their old age and felt sorry for. There is never a question of right versus wrong. There is certainly agreement over what constitutes right and wrong behavior. However, it seems that questions of forgiveness, compassion and even biblical parental honor are more hotly debated than questions related to whether or not crimes should be reported and punished. What I've gotten from the posts in the aforementioned threads that I have read is frustration over a lack of both individual and collective accountability combined with frustration over feelings of having nothing to be accountable for. I've never actually witnessed an act of domestic violence in my family but I know that if I had, I'd be pressured to "keep it in the family" along with everyone else instead of involving the authorities. I know, from my experience, that it's possible to get swept up in a "family culture" so I don't know if it's so much that you are living in a bubble as the fact that we ALL are to some degree. One of the most frustrating things about life is how difficult it is to truly walk a mile in another's shoes.

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Response to Blasphemer (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:22 PM

6. I don't know. I certainly can't speak for every social group. However, I am certain that if..

my family thought I raped someone, I would be turned into the law.

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Response to BrentWil (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:26 PM

7. I wish I could say the same with certainty...

But I'm not so sure about that. I can envision circumstances where my family wouldn't want it done. I wouldn't go along with it and would be backed up by other family members who feel the same but I could see it creating a divide.

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:03 PM

8. No one is perfect

And there are some mean and ugly people in the world.

Sometimes even the best make mistakes. No one is perfect.

Looking at the big picture, and seeing bombs bursting in air, makes me hurt all the time. There are very bad things and then there are things that are not as bad. And we all make mistakes.

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 02:06 AM

9. You're asking questions

and that's what all the threads should be about: educating ourselves.

There are many websites dealing with the issue of rape. You can get a lot of answers there.

No, you are not abnormal. Most men would not force theselves on anyone else. But there are a few who commit most of the rapes and we must do all we can to identify them and see that they are prosecuted. More importantly, we need education.

Our military has a disgusting history of rape. This must be dealt with. I have a hard time believing the Pentagon gets so much of our goddamned money, but they cannot keep our servicemen and women safe.

I encourage you to read about the issue, the why, who, where, when and what of the crime and its victims.

The more we all educate ourselves, the better we are able to spot a rapist and hopefully prevent rape from happening at all.

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Response to BrentWil (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:12 AM

10. To answer your question, yes. nt

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