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Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:57 PM

 

How Charter Schools Fleece Taxpayers: "the rule, not the exception"

In her examination of Arizona’s 50 largest nonprofit charter schools and all of Arizona's nonprofit charter schools with assets exceeding $10 million, Ryman found “at least 17 contracts or arrangements, totaling more than $70 million over five years and involving about 40 school sites, in which money from the non-profit charter school went to for-profit or non-profit companies run by board members, executives or their relatives.”

That says to me that in Arizona, at least, charter-school corruption isn’t the exception. It’s the rule. And that’s just in the nonprofit charter schools. Documentation for the for-profit schools is not publicly available. What are the odds that charter-school proprietors operating in the dark are less inclined to enrich themselves at public expense?

The self-dealing is entirely legal. All you have to do is get yourself an exemption from state laws requiring that goods and services be bid competitively. Clearly these exemptions aren’t difficult to acquire, because...90 percent of all the state's charter schools have acquired permanent exemptions from state competitive bidding requirements. No exemption has ever been withdrawn by the state. If you are a charter-school officer and you stand to benefit personally from some financial transaction with the school, you may not vote on whether to make the purchase. But that’s about the only rule.

It's happening in other states, too. In 2011 Christopher Magan and Margo Rutledge Kissell told a strikingly similar story about Dayton’s Richard Allen Schools in the Dayton Daily News. That article led to an investigation by Ohio’s state auditor and, in this instance, the recovery of some funds. This past May, a San Bernardino County school district shut down the Adalanto Charter Academy because (according to the San Bernardino County Sentinal) “much of the academy’s academic imperative was suborned to the mercenary intent of those involved at the school.” A 2008 Washington Post investigation by David S. Fallis and April Witt “found conflicts of interest involving almost $200 million worth of business deals, typically real estate transactions, at more than a third of the District's 60 charter schools.”

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/110355/its-easy-fleece-charter-schools#

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Reply How Charter Schools Fleece Taxpayers: "the rule, not the exception" (Original post)
HiPointDem Dec 2012 OP
madfloridian Dec 2012 #1
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #2
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #37
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #3
madfloridian Dec 2012 #5
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #106
RebelOne Dec 2012 #4
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #6
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #12
Squinch Dec 2012 #67
Coyotl Dec 2012 #89
madfloridian Dec 2012 #7
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #11
knitter4democracy Dec 2012 #41
RebelOne Dec 2012 #50
Squinch Dec 2012 #64
madfloridian Dec 2012 #109
blackspade Dec 2012 #8
Coyotl Dec 2012 #90
blackspade Dec 2012 #95
Coyotl Dec 2012 #96
blackspade Dec 2012 #97
Coyotl Dec 2012 #98
blackspade Dec 2012 #101
Coyotl Dec 2012 #103
blackspade Dec 2012 #105
Coyotl Dec 2012 #108
Turbineguy Dec 2012 #9
craigmatic Dec 2012 #10
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #15
RebelOne Dec 2012 #53
craigmatic Dec 2012 #57
antigop Dec 2012 #13
madfloridian Dec 2012 #14
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #17
antigop Dec 2012 #44
antigop Dec 2012 #18
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #21
antigop Dec 2012 #22
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #25
antigop Dec 2012 #26
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #27
antigop Dec 2012 #29
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #33
antigop Dec 2012 #51
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #66
antigop Dec 2012 #75
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #84
quaker bill Dec 2012 #91
quaker bill Dec 2012 #92
madfloridian Dec 2012 #43
antigop Dec 2012 #45
antigop Dec 2012 #62
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #69
antigop Dec 2012 #76
blackspade Dec 2012 #102
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #23
antigop Dec 2012 #24
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #28
antigop Dec 2012 #30
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #31
antigop Dec 2012 #32
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #34
antigop Dec 2012 #47
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #35
antigop Dec 2012 #46
antigop Dec 2012 #48
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #39
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #40
antigop Dec 2012 #52
madfloridian Dec 2012 #42
antigop Dec 2012 #55
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #71
antigop Dec 2012 #60
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #88
antigop Dec 2012 #19
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #36
antigop Dec 2012 #49
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #54
antigop Dec 2012 #56
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #59
antigop Dec 2012 #58
antigop Dec 2012 #61
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #63
antigop Dec 2012 #68
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #74
antigop Dec 2012 #70
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #72
antigop Dec 2012 #77
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #81
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #16
TheBlackAdder Dec 2012 #20
antigop Dec 2012 #65
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #73
antigop Dec 2012 #78
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #83
patrice Dec 2012 #104
antigop Dec 2012 #79
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #80
antigop Dec 2012 #85
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #86
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #93
xchrom Dec 2012 #38
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #82
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #94
Coyotl Dec 2012 #87
Coyotl Dec 2012 #99
madfloridian Dec 2012 #100
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #107

Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:22 PM

1. They get public money, they don't have to account for it.

Must be nice, huh?

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:45 PM

2. Here's more of the beauty...

1) They are not held to the same testing standards. This is done to prevent direct Apples to Apples comparisons that the general public could understand. Instead, it's a convoluted process that cannot be fully realized until 4-5 years pass by - by that time, a whole cluster of students would be affected.

2) They are allowed to take the voucher money from public school systems, including the $12-14K plus the $800 or so transportation money from the school. Meanwhile, if a charter takes 3-4 kids out of each school's grade level, that could result in the loss of over $200K to that school with NO WAY of consolidating classes or cutting costs.

The net result is the towns have to pay more in property taxes to fund the school district's shortfall.

3) Most charter schools are also exempt from the local elected school board's oversight. This means that the charter school can practically hire who they choose to hire. In my town, we just narrowly missed a charter, where the guy starting it was a minister who also ran a daycare program from his churches and also had a group that took state/federal money to get convicts back on their feet... along with their Social Security money. Part of that service was that the parolees had to perform community service on his properties - which included the charter school. Parolees would be doing facility work at the school filled with over 250 elementary children. Plus, the volunteer teachers at his daycare would be low-paid 'teachers' using some education program that is sold to charter schools.

The minister would get about $15,000 per kid from the neighboring town's while his costs were just over $10K, and he would get to pocket the savings!

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:03 PM

37. It gets worse

In Indiana, they passed a law that says the charters can have 50% of their teaching faculty with no teaching credentials at all. Can anybody say "minimum wage?"

And in the same legislative session, they passed a law that say if, by some strange coincidence, the public school districts end up with real estate they can't use (after the charters have taken 20% of their students -- typically the better students), the public district is forced to lease the real estate to these charter corporations for one dollar a year.

And the public district still has to pay the cost of MAINTENANCE on these buildings.

Charter Schools are every bit the Republican heist that we have seen in:

- The S&L "crisis"
- TARP
- Privatizing prisons
- The war industry
- It never stops

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:48 PM

3. Virtual Schools - That's the biggest windfall.

It costs less than $8K to run a virtual charter school program, but the charter school would get 90% of the student's voucher money. That is a windfall of $6-7K per student. A bunch of virtual charters opened up in PA and the results are just starting to come in - dismal results on most of them, marginal on others... yet, they still get to run and keep their profits.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:58 PM

5. The only people held accountable are the public school teachers.

And that's how the reformers planned it.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:24 AM

106. Absofuckiknglutely. No dollar left behind.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:57 PM

4. I cannot condemn charter schools.

My daughter is a teacher at a charter in South Florida. She originally taught at a public school in a ghetto atmosphere. When she was offered a position at a charter school, she jumped on it. It was a great improvement over being told to fuck off or go to hell when she tried to discipline the students at the public school.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:01 PM

6. don't you wonder how it is that charter schools are allowed to get rid of such students while

 

public schools aren't allowed to?

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:17 PM

12. So true.

In NJ, the Parochial Schools only average about 5% better than public schools.

But, with the public schools, that is statewide and include the heavily urban areas. Public schools HAVE TO ACCEPT EVERYONE. In the suburban and rural areas, the public schools heavily outperform the parochial schools, who have just recently upgraded their pay to match public school systems as the teachers were jumping ship for the money.

Charters and Parochial schools can be selective as to who they take and can kick undesirable children out!

But it still doesn't matter. The charter schools are held to a double secret standard that cannot be compared to public schools.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:26 PM

67. Nationwide, in all the studies, charter schools average lower than public schools.

In spite of the cherry picking of well-behaved students without physical, cognitive or learning problems.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #67)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:03 AM

89. The percentage of failing charter schools is surprising.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:03 PM

7. Charter schools don't have to keep misbehaving students.

They just send them back to the public school teachers. Then their self-images and ego must be rebuilt by public school teachers. I had one come back from a specialized charter school, one of the best and brightest students I ever had. The charter teachers and principals did not appreciate and understand his great sense of humor and outgoing personality.

He had no self-confidence left. His mom and I worked on that all year.

We could accomplish the same creative goals and high standards in public schools. That is if they quit taking money away to give it to charter schools and voucher students for private schools.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:13 PM

11. "a ghetto atmosphere"???

Yuck. Hopefully your daughter has a better attitude towards the community she serves than you do.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:31 PM

41. I picked up on that, too.

If that's how her daughter saw her students and her school, thank goodness she's somewhere else. Hopefully, a teacher better fitted to the position is in that classroom now.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:27 PM

50. Those were my words and not my daughter's.

From her description of the school, I can only think of it as a ghetto atmosphere. When the students tell her to fuck off or go to hell, it reminds me of the Blackboard Jungle movie.

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:22 PM

64. I work in schools like that. You know who goes to those schools? Kids. Just like your kids.

You know what they want? To live a nice life. Just like your kids.

When a kid tells me to fuck off or go to hell you know what I find shocks the vast majority of them into submission? Responding to them with respect. It blows their little minds.

The Blackboard Jungle movie was a movie. In the 50's. It doesn't really have much to do with life.

Kids are kids. And the kids in harder neighborhoods need the best teachers a lot more than the kids in the easier neighborhoods. And if we don't give them those teachers, you know who will pay the price in the long run? All of us. You and me.

The answer to our education problems is not siphoning off money to private interests, inexperienced teachers, and a refusal to deal with children with learning issues. Charter schools are not the answer.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #64)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:49 PM

109. Amen to that.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:45 PM

8. Charter schools should all be shut down.

They are parasites on our education system.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:05 AM

90. No, they can go on without public funding.

The problem is not charter schools, the problem is taking public funds and converting them into private profits at the expense of educating students.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #90)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:14 AM

95. Like I said, they should be shut down.

Without public money, these scam schools will fold.
No school should be 'for profit' anyway.
Education is not a commodity.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #95)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:27 PM

96. Private schools are just fine, profit is just fine

just don't ask the public to subsidize them.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #96)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:09 PM

97. Private schools are not the same as for profit.

There should not be for profit schools.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #97)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:00 AM

98. Would you abolish all of them or just stop children from attending them? At what level?

Secondary, college, technical schools, beauty schools, where to draw the line. Kindergarten non-profits only?

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #98)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:24 AM

101. What is your deal?

It is clear what level of schooling we are talking about in this case.

I'll ask you a question: Are you OK with commodifying education? At what level? Do you think that the care and education of our children should have a profit motive? Are our children a commodity to you?

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Response to blackspade (Reply #101)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:40 AM

103. I'm pro-public education

and I oppose public school fund diversions to private, for-profit or other private schools alike. If people wish to go to other schools instead of public schools, let them have their own schools in accordance with education standards. But make them fund their own schools too then, instead of talkiongh money from public institutions and often even converting a good percentage of it to personal pay plus personal profit, plus all your friend's and family businesses too. That's my deal! But that does not mean I want to step on other people's rights to create education institutions if they wish to.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #103)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:30 AM

105. Then I have no Idea what you were arguing with me about.

Totally pointless.

We resolved this at the onset.
We both agreed that no public money should go to for profit charter schools.
However, I don't think schools should be for profit at all and you do.

Thanks for the total waste of time.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #105)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:07 AM

108. You are welcome

I enjoyed it too

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:46 PM

9. I thought that was the whole point

of charter schools. To fleece the taxpayer. Oh, and pay low salaries. And bust the Teachers Unions.

I just didn't think it would be this obvious so fast.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:51 PM

10. Charters also don't have to pay their teachers according to pay scale.

Here in Georgia when regular teachers had to take a 15% pay cut teachers at the charters took and additional 15% cut (30% in all). Subs don't get paid according to their qualifications either not to mention these schools aren't located in buildings designed for schools. I've seen one that was some kind of converted store.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:30 PM

15. The charter that tried to open by me was planning to offer poverty line wages.

This particular planned charter school, in NJ, was proposing to pay less than $11 an hour for their teachers, in a state where the poverty line is around $26K a year! They were going to use the daycare teachers that their church used and any other people that would accept the position - many from faith-based groups.

Imagine the quality of teacher, their educational level and currency of their craft, whether they attend ongoing studies to remain current and the teacher's quality of life when they are barely surviving?

Do you really want your child's teacher struggling to find transportation, worrying about lodging, food and clothing, etc.?

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:30 PM

53. Well, my daughter in South Florida is earning s very good salary in a charter school. n/t

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Response to RebelOne (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:39 PM

57. Is it as much as she'd be making in public school?

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:18 PM

13. We have an excellent performing arts charter school

It allows the kids to take classes in music, art, dance, and theater. The public schools have cut all of these programs so the charter school is the only place where the kids have access to these types of programs. It is also strong academically.
There are no sports teams -- no money goes to sports.

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Response to antigop (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:27 PM

14. The per student money left the public school and went to the performing arts charter.

And no one is replenishing the money taken from public schools.

That's why the public schools have had to cut programs.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:33 PM

17. Many of the public programs get cut...

but when the parents complain that music, arts and sports are being pulled from their schools, the other option is a ballot question to raise property taxes or have the parents fund the programs by themselves. I have to 'contribute' $200 a year so my one child can be on the school's newspaper and student government.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:16 PM

44. Football rules here. Always has. Very few parents are advocates for the arts.

It would be prohibitively expensive for those few parents to fund the arts programs by themselves.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:34 PM

18. no, the money left the public school long before the charter.

And the public schools don't seem to have any trouble finding money to fund football stadiums.

The charter school is the only place where the kids have access to these programs. That's why it was put in.

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Response to antigop (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:36 PM

21. um, no it didn't, as the poster is talking about the per-pupil funding.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:38 PM

22. the money for the public school arts programs was cut long before the charter school went in.

But the public schools all put in wonderful football stadiums with wonderful inside training facilities.

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Response to antigop (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:41 PM

25. Read up on the subject... I bet you've never talked to a School Board or State DoE person.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:42 PM

26. I don't need to "read up on the subject" as I know what happened. And was involved. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:43 PM

27. the money the poster is talking about is the per-pupil funding, which is the money that

 

actually runs the school in question.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:46 PM

29. and the per-pupil dollars were NOT going into the arts programs in the public schools.

That's why the charter went in.

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Response to antigop (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:53 PM

33. The per-pupil dollars were going to the public schools. They no longer are. If the state

 

got rid of arts programs in public schools, but then used public dollars to pay for arts programs in charter schools, I think you can see the duplicity & fraud involved.

Let me make it clear: If the state cancels arts programs in public schools while simultaneously opening charter schools which offer arts programs, the logical conclusion is that the state is degrading public schools in order to draw students away from them and into charter schools -- along with FUNDING.

Oh, & a number of cases have made it clear that charter school students will be given full access to public school extra-curricular sports programs and facilities, with public schools bearing the cost -- but public school students will not be given access to charter schools' arts facilities and the like.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:28 PM

51. The VOTERS DON'T WANT THE ARTS PROGRAMS. They don't care. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:25 PM

66. so you keep saying. but you won't talk about the specifics, like how it came about that

 

arts were cut from the regular schools but funded (from the public purse) in the charter school.

or who else goes to this charter school but your child, since you are allegedly the only voter who cares about the arts.

Charter schools are funded by the same pot of money that funds the regular schools in the same district. Every dollar that goes to charters = less for regular schools.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:40 PM

75. My child doesn't go to the charter school. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:00 PM

84. then i guess it has no students at all, since "VOTERS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ARTS", only you.

 

well, you may be right then. no pupils = no per-pupil funding.

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Response to antigop (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:45 AM

91. But they are paying for one anyway

Charter schools are funded by the taxpayer.

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Response to antigop (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:51 AM

92. and obtained per-pupil dollars for art programs

locally we created an "arts magnet" public school, same effect but under public management.

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Response to antigop (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:46 PM

43. That is public money going to private companies to run unregulated schools.

So I am not going to argue. Per pupil money stays with the student and goes where they go....except if the charter sends them back to the public schools. I don't believe our state has a rule about that.

Convenient, huh?

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:18 PM

45. and in this case it's the only option for students who want to pursue arts programs.

It's a done deal.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:12 PM

62. And if a student wants to take theater, dance, music classes, this is their only option. nt

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Response to antigop (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:28 PM

69. yes, so you keep saying. but you won't address how that situation arose. and you seem

 

to be unable to concede that the funding of that charter (which has arts) comes out of the pot that funds the public schools is the same district -- which for some reason has no arts. hmmm.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:41 PM

76. How many times do I have to tell you--the parents with kids in the public schools don't care about

the arts?

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Response to antigop (Reply #76)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:32 AM

102. What are you talking about?

Because that is totally false.
Thousands of parents in every district want arts education for their kids.
Public schools have been and should continue to be the center of civic development of our youth.
That includes arts.

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Response to antigop (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:39 PM

23. States provide School Construction money for capital improvements.

This is funded by state and federal dollars that are to be used for facility construction and infrastructure repairs and NOT on day-to-day teaching.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:41 PM

24. money is going into the sports programs (esp. football), not the arts. That's why the arts school

went in.

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Response to antigop (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:46 PM

28. Then speak up at your next School Board meeting - rally the troops.

Don't sit there on some internet board moaning about arts funding cuts while it happens.

My town tried to cut arts and environmental programs. I stood in front of them and said that if they normalized the town to match the neighboring towns... I would go to the governor and push school district consolidation. Guess what? No cuts.

That's all you have to do to your school board... threaten them with school district regionalization. After all, if your township is going to look like the 5 neighboring townships... why not consolidate!

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:49 PM

30. um, what makes you think I didn't speak to the school board about cutting arts programs?

FACT: Sports rule here. Always have. Very few arts advocates.

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Response to antigop (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:50 PM

31. You didn't hear me... Discuss Regionalization. n/r

Nothing scares the crap out of a school board, the Chief School Administrators and their contracted Lawyers more than knowing half of them will lose their jobs during a consolidation and the ones that have them, will only be one voice at a table of many... no separate fiefdoms.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:51 PM

32. and you didn't hear me. The charter school is already there. nt

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Response to antigop (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:56 PM

34. And it's getting per-pupil funding which takes funding from the public schools, as the poster said

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:21 PM

47. and the charter school is already built-- it's not going anywhere. Performing arts requires special

facilities that the voters of the public schools will not support.....

The charter school is here to stay.

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Response to antigop (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:56 PM

35. So an art program at a charter and one in the publics are two different things.

Demand it added back to the publics. I'm telling you... try the consolidation approach I updated above. The school board now knows me, knows I'll do what I'll say and their entourage doesn't want that! They'll suddenly find the money.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:19 PM

46. nope, you don't know the situation or the politics. Besides, I'm moving out of the district. n/t

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:23 PM

48. The arts programs require special facilities that the voters in the public schools will not support.

Last edited Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:17 PM - Edit history (1)

n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:18 PM

39. The letter that primed the School Board for my presentation.

Dear Board Members,

Over the past several years, I have noticed a series of changes in the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Public Schools system that makes our township loose its individuality with neighboring districts. First came the partial elimination of the International Baccalaureate program, followed by the threatened elimination of the xxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxx programs, the removal of additional teaching coaches, and now by the planned removal of the PYP Coordinators for the schools who voted to keep IB available. As xxxxOurTownxxxx looses its individuality, the question of home rule should now be raised, as there would be little incentive to pay for duplicated administrative staff amongst towns.

Assembly Speaker xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx was a prime sponsor of a 2007 piece of legislation that began to address the consolidation of school districts. In 2007, a provision in the state law was passed directing county superintendents to plan for the merger of school districts that did not provide K-12 schooling by spring of 2010. There had been other legislative discussions about regionalizing school districts at a county level or with neighboring towns; though I'm sure xxxxNeighboringTown1xxxx and xxxxNeighboringTown2xxxx would balk at the idea of merging with us. Since xxxxOurSchoolDistrictxxxx is neither at the top or bottom of the list in xxxxOurCountyxxxx County, it would seem that this approach might have little negative impact for our district.

Depending on the outcome of the April 1st budget vote, I may schedule meetings with various state representatives, beginning with the proponents of consolidation, in order to discuss these options further.

The decisions that this school board makes can and will affect this township's school system in ways not yet imagined. In a strange way, the lack of financial resources are actually driving several area school boards to make decisions that will eventually lead to school consolidation. At this point, I would not like to see this come to fruition. As xxxxOurTownxxxx becomes normalized with neighboring towns, the argument of home rule will become moot.

Respectfully yours,

xxxxxx xxxxxx

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:25 PM

40. FYI - They suspended talks about eliminating every program I defended.

It's been 3 years now and all of the programs are fully funded. I did not have to make another appearance in front of the school board. I've questioned a couple of things since then, via email, and I did not have to make a follow-up inquiry.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:29 PM

52. How many times do I have to tell you -- the charter school is built. It's not going anywhere. n/t

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:43 PM

42. Thanks for taking the fight to them.

That's what has to be done, but first we have to get people to believe they are actually privatizing schools. Mostly they don't see it yet at all.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:33 PM

55. Who are the "They"? I've mentioned this numerous times but I'm not getting through.. The charter

school already exists. It's not going anywhere. The public schools ARE NOT going to add the specialized facilities required for arts program. The voters have spoken. They don't care about the arts.

The charter school was the only way for the kids in different districts to be able to have a good arts program.

The public school district voters vote for sports and sports facilities.

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Response to antigop (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:30 PM

71. The voters cut the arts program in their public schools but funded an art program in a charter

 

school in the same district -- because they don't care about the arts?

you are going to have to explain a little more, antigop, because so far it doesn't make sense.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:50 PM

60. "Loose its individuality"? I hope you didn't send that. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:54 PM

88. I know, I wrote that freehand. I caught the mistake after hitting send.

Then I forgot about it.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:35 PM

19. as mentioned below, the public schools don't have any problem building new football stadiums.

That's where the money went.

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Response to antigop (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:57 PM

36. The per-pupil funding does not go to football stadiums.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:26 PM

49. People in the school district vote for those stadiums and indoor training facilities.

They don't vote for performing arts facilities.

The per-pupil funding in the public schools DOES NOT go to the arts programs. The arts advocates are greatly outnumbered by the sports enthusiasts.

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Response to antigop (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:32 PM

54. Did the population vote to cut arts programs? I've never seen such a vote. I assume that

 

if a stadium was built, it was through a levy. Was such a levy put forward to fund arts programs?

No, pure-pupil funding doesn't go to arts programs. It doesn't go to stadiums, either. It goes to fund each PUPIL in the system, something you seem to have a hard time grasping.

The state/district, for whatever reason, cut arts & then funded arts in a charter. Ergo, the aim was to worsen the quality of education in public schools while offering a better quality to charters.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:34 PM

56. The voters in the PUBLIC SCHOOLS DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ARTS. How many times do I have to tell you

that?

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Response to antigop (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:49 PM

59. yes, you're the only one.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:40 PM

58. YOu seem to have a hard time grasping that the PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ARTS. n/t

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:56 PM

61. The school district cut theater, dance, and music classes. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:22 PM

63. Did the people vote on the cuts? You imply that they did. And did they then vote to fund

 

a charter which would teach the subjects they had just cut from the the regular schools?

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:27 PM

68. The people elect the school board. The people vote for funding sports facilities. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:37 PM

74. so you're saying the school board decided to shut down arts programs in the public schools?

 

and (someone) ran a levy to fund a sports facility, and the people voted 'yes'?

was any similar levy run to fund the arts?

and who voted to set up the charter school with a full arts program while taking arts away from public schools? did the people vote on that?

i presume this charter school is selective enrollment, am i correct in that assumption?

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:28 PM

70. How many times do I have to tell you-- the PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE ARTS! n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:32 PM

72. AND HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO ASK, DID THEY VOTE TO SHUT DOWN THE PUBLIC

 

SCHOOL ARTS PROGRAMS?????

Why are you so averse to answering the question?

I have to guess that it's because they didn't. Some administrative level shut down these programs, but opened them up in a charter school.

Sounds like a clever way to create apartheid schools for the upper middle class.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #72)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:43 PM

77. Why are you so averse to understanding? Look, I don't have any more time for this. I'm DONE. n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:56 PM

81. averse to understanding *what*? all you've done is repeat "the voters don't care" over & over.

 

your child, apparently, attends that charter school all by his/her lonesome, as the rest of the voters by your word don't care.

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Response to antigop (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:31 PM

16. There are also excellent public schools. The existence of excellent charter schools is irrelevant

 

in terms of the larger picture, which is:

The majority of charters are not excellent: the majority run from average (on par with matched public schools) to abysmal (worse than matched public schools). and by majority, i mean 83%.

Charter schools destroy public schooling and have significantly less oversight & more opportunities for corruption and theft.

Charter schools are a Trojan horse designed to lead to full privatization of education & the forced diversion of tax funds at all levels into corporate hands -- including international corporate hands, as this game is global.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:35 PM

20. Accurate post.

The corporate management layer skims the profits from the top.

They get the voucher and any savings are kept. That's the incentive to provide a cheap education while realizing no taxpayer benefits.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:24 PM

65. As I have stated numerous times...the only way students can get music, dance, and theater classes is

to go to the charter school.

It also is excellent academically.

And if a student wants to go to college and major in music or theater and pursue that as a career option, that student needs to get decent music and theater classes while in high school.

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Response to antigop (Reply #65)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:34 PM

73. and as i have asked many times, how is it that there's money enough to fund these things

 

in a charter school, but not in the general public schools?

how did that situation come about, antigop?

and no, "the voters don't care about art" repeated 50 times isn't an explanation. it's a smokescreen.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #73)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:51 PM

78. What part of -- THE CHARTER SCHOOL EXISTS AND IT ISN'T GOING AWAY -- don't you

understand?

No smokescreen-- the public school parents are not interested in the arts. They don't care.

I've explained this numerous times.

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Response to antigop (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:57 PM

83. lol. you don't want to answer the questions. 'the charter school exists' -- yes, plopped

 

down fully-funded by the magical hand of god almighty, no doubt.

You have a district with no arts & a charter school with arts, both funded off the district's budget. The charter school with its full program takes funding from the other schools, who have no program.

interesing. and as you didn't answer my question about selective enrollment, i'll assume that this artsy charter school requires some entry test (an arts portfolio or something of the sort) so that some unartistic students can be denied admission.

class apartheid school.

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Response to antigop (Reply #78)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:20 AM

104. I'm not sure what the disconnect is here, but let me see if I can explain this question.

I think what you are saying IS understood: there is no arts curriculum in the public schools because, as you say, no one (or not enough, or not the right people) want arts curriculum there NOW and the reason no one there wants arts curriculum is because those who did/do left the public schools to start an arts charter school.

So this question is about HOW that happened, how/why it was that the people demanding arts curriculum left the public schools. Since presumably those people who are now with the arts charter school were previously part of the public schools, that would support the contention that there WAS in fact significant interest in arts curriculum in public schools, so why was ALL of that per-student funding taken away from the public schools (funding that also affects non-arts curriculum) to create what will likely be an under-performing arts charter school, when the arts curriculum demand could have been met in the public schools without damaging their funding any more than it already is.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #73)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:53 PM

79. since you obviously don't understand -- I'M DONE with this... I have no time to try to make you

understand.

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Response to antigop (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:55 PM

80. no, you have no DESIRE to answer the questions, as they'd spoil your narrative about

 

voters who don't care about the arts, only about football stadiums and charter schools being magically self-funded.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:02 PM

85. One more post...I answered upthread. GO READ IT! n/t

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Response to antigop (Reply #85)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:03 PM

86. WHERE? Link the post at least. I've answered every post you've addressed to me to my knowledge.

 

...hour later...yeah, i didn't think so.

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Response to antigop (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 08:06 AM

93. Which is completely irrelevant. The fact that there might (in your opinion) be a good

 

charter school someplace has no bearing on the larger fact that this a nationwide scam with the singular goal of stealing taxpayer money.

I also notice that you give no information whatsoever about this school that might allow some ambitious person to look at this "excellent performing arts school" to see just where the money goes, if it is academically strong, or that it even exists.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:13 PM

38. Du rec. Nt

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:57 PM

82. It's all about destroying the teachers union, that is their goal.

They don't want teachers who actually teach. They want low-paid baby-sitters who will train kids to be obedient drones. The PTB realized that the investment in education after WW2 is what caused the social movements of the 60s and 70s and they decided to nit that in the bud, hence the "Children at Risk" propaganda that brainwashed people into thinking that an excellent educational system was actually a failure.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 08:09 AM

94. And stealing taxpayer money. Don't forget that part.

 


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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:14 PM

87. Union busting profiteers do more than harm children by diverting money to pockets

they also do not treat their staffs like public community institutions do. Profit above purpose.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:03 AM

99. "How charter schools harm public education" is the real issue.

When you take money away from districts by raiding their students, the fixed overheads of the district remain the same and apply to fewer students. Simple math, you screw the school district and thus the remaining students.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:37 AM

100. Yes, exactly. Our nation is using fed money to defund public education.

A free public education that should be given more resources instead of thrown into financial chaos.

And the issue of public taxpayer money going to private school management company is a biggie.

Private schools, charter schools...fine until they start turning over public funds to them.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:41 AM

107. for people who are convinced the public schools are failing, the fact that charter schools

 

are financially corrupt may make them may make them think twice about education deform.

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