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Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:11 AM

Today I started to post a quote from an article by Glenn Greenwald in The Guardian UK

Last edited Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Before I post I usually do a search to determine the atmosphere on a particular topic. Since I am just starting to post here again after a year, I try not to post stuff to cause anger.

But wow! After so many sentiments effectively saying f*** Greenwald because he criticized the president....I started not to post the segment. I have changed my mind because the statement was made by a Florida blogger and MSNBC contributor. I will take my chances. It should get notice for the snide insult and the ugly tone toward Bradley Manning. Whatever a person's views of what he did, he does not deserve this kind of scorn.

Here's what I twittered about the article.

Retweeting Greenwald

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald

Here's an Op-Ed I have in tomorrow's Guardian newspaper on what was revealed by the Bradley Manning hearing this week http://is.gd/WpqAcf


Here's the quote from the Guardian article.

Ever since I first reported the conditions of Manning's detention in December 2010, many of them not only cheered that abuse but grotesquely ridiculed concerns about it. Joy-Ann Reid, a former Obama press aide and now a contributor on the progressive network MSNBC, spouted sadistic mockery in response to the report: "Bradley Manning has no pillow?????" With that, she echoed one of the most extreme rightwing websites, RedState, which identically mocked the report: "Give Bradley Manning his pillow and blankie back."


That statement disturbed me, though I respected her as a blogger and often quoted her. I will remember it whenever I watch her on TV. I will try not to do so, but it will stick with me.

I don't have to agree with all Glenn Greenwald says, but I have read his work for years. I respect that he digs for his research, and that he is brave enough to post unpopular topics. That's how it should be at such a forum as this...we can discuss ideas without condemning someone.

I wrote sort of a good by post last December. A lot of people were having the same feelings. I thought of it today as I was doing more reading here, it stuck in my mind. I post about education mainly, and it often angers people when I say it is both parties involved in privatizing public education. It is the truth. There are many other bloggers here who have researched as well, and there is no doubt that the next four years for education are critical.

I and many others love the fact that education should be equal and free, and that instead of taking funds and resources away from public schools.....we should be giving to them.

Coming to DU in 2002 as more moderate and centrist....now finding that I am too liberal to fit in.

I really felt out of place here then a lot. I came from a Republican background (my parents were the first Democrats in the family). I began to realize how very little I knew of the world beyond my teaching career and raising my family. There wasn't much time for exploration of ideas outside of my re-certification classes, and my eyes were opened here every day.

I would read things and there would be a light bulb going on in my head. I would say to myself hey that is what I believe is true. I would wonder why I never read about any of this stuff in the newspapers. I was often out of my depth and probably thought of as arrogant in topics of tolerance of others. I was learning new things here every day, and my mind was taking it all in. I became less tolerant of who I had been and was more liberal every day.

I now find myself at the opposite end at this forum on the spectrum of opinion and political policies and ideas. I am stunned at how easily we now accept what we would fought hard against here 10 years ago. I find that most will accept ideas that are basically right wing in nature if our party does it as well. That scares me.

...."Over and over there are moves against experienced, tenured teachers by the education reformers. There is no major Democrat speaking out in defense of them. It is the position taken by the Republican party through the years....privatize the schools. We are doing it faster than they ever did, and I hate to say it...but the Bushes never allowed the contempt of public school teachers to take hold like this.


There has been no acknowledgement from any leader in either party that teachers have become fearful about their jobs as the billionaire reformers move in. Not a single word. Arne Duncan has said he will continue on the same path of reforms. That's a scary thought.

So I posted a quote from Greenwald's article because I was stunned to read it. If you want to read the rest of today's article from the Guardian, you might be impressed. You may not agree with all of it, but that's how being informed works.





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Arrow 108 replies Author Time Post
Reply Today I started to post a quote from an article by Glenn Greenwald in The Guardian UK (Original post)
madfloridian Dec 2012 OP
YvonneCa Dec 2012 #1
madfloridian Dec 2012 #2
YvonneCa Dec 2012 #23
KoKo Dec 2012 #69
niyad Dec 2012 #3
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #4
Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #5
madfloridian Dec 2012 #7
Mnemosyne Dec 2012 #6
MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #8
madfloridian Dec 2012 #9
UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #16
alarimer Dec 2012 #48
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #10
madfloridian Dec 2012 #11
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #12
madfloridian Dec 2012 #13
snot Dec 2012 #14
madfloridian Dec 2012 #19
aquart Dec 2012 #15
suffragette Dec 2012 #17
Zorra Dec 2012 #18
Overseas Dec 2012 #20
madfloridian Dec 2012 #25
pnwmom Dec 2012 #21
calimary Dec 2012 #22
madfloridian Dec 2012 #24
calimary Dec 2012 #60
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #26
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #75
bbgrunt Dec 2012 #27
blackspade Dec 2012 #28
BlueMTexpat Dec 2012 #29
reusrename Dec 2012 #30
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #31
dmr Dec 2012 #32
madfloridian Dec 2012 #74
dembotoz Dec 2012 #33
malaise Dec 2012 #34
proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #35
madfloridian Dec 2012 #45
Agony Dec 2012 #36
steve2470 Dec 2012 #37
xchrom Dec 2012 #38
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #39
madfloridian Dec 2012 #62
smokey nj Dec 2012 #40
Vattel Dec 2012 #41
LWolf Dec 2012 #42
madfloridian Dec 2012 #67
Hotler Dec 2012 #43
FloriTexan Dec 2012 #44
madfloridian Dec 2012 #68
Octafish Dec 2012 #46
madfloridian Dec 2012 #53
rudycantfail Dec 2012 #61
immoderate Dec 2012 #47
madfloridian Dec 2012 #86
Jazzgirl Dec 2012 #49
madfloridian Dec 2012 #66
locks Dec 2012 #50
madfloridian Dec 2012 #80
leveymg Dec 2012 #51
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #59
leveymg Dec 2012 #65
grantcart Dec 2012 #82
leveymg Dec 2012 #97
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #52
bvar22 Dec 2012 #54
madfloridian Dec 2012 #56
formercia Dec 2012 #55
redqueen Dec 2012 #57
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #58
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #63
madfloridian Dec 2012 #64
rurallib Dec 2012 #70
marmar Dec 2012 #71
madfloridian Dec 2012 #73
LongTomH Dec 2012 #72
JackRiddler Dec 2012 #76
madfloridian Dec 2012 #96
janlyn Dec 2012 #77
madfloridian Dec 2012 #88
Oilwellian Dec 2012 #78
madrchsod Dec 2012 #79
madfloridian Dec 2012 #81
n2doc Dec 2012 #83
madfloridian Dec 2012 #94
janx Dec 2012 #84
madfloridian Dec 2012 #90
grantcart Dec 2012 #85
madfloridian Dec 2012 #87
Dappleganger Dec 2012 #89
DeSwiss Dec 2012 #91
tpsbmam Dec 2012 #92
madfloridian Dec 2012 #93
tiredtoo Dec 2012 #95
madfloridian Dec 2012 #103
Faryn Balyncd Dec 2012 #98
madfloridian Dec 2012 #106
emsimon33 Dec 2012 #99
alfredo Dec 2012 #100
gateley Dec 2012 #101
progressoid Dec 2012 #102
just1voice Dec 2012 #104
madfloridian Dec 2012 #105
Divine Discontent Dec 2012 #107
madfloridian Dec 2012 #108

Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:17 AM

1. You're...

...here!

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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:18 AM

2. Cautiously so.

back to you and thanks for all your kind retweets.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:48 AM

23. It's really great to see you...

...here again.

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Response to YvonneCa (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:22 PM

69. Great to see you back...!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:19 AM

3. welcome back--and thank you for posting this. I missed it somehow.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:22 AM

4. Thanks for posting. nm

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:26 AM

5. Glad to see you back. We need you.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:29 AM

7. Coming from you I much appreciate that.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:29 AM

6. K&R #5!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:31 AM

8. K&R. I saw the other thread but didn't have the energy to post in it. But I agree with you.

 

I don't always agree with Greenwald but he is scrupulously consistent. If the Bush Administration had subjected Manning to the torture that the Obama Administration has, Greenwald would have been every bit as critical of them.

That kind of consistency is rare and admirable. If it's wrong with "they" do it, it's just as wrong when "we" do it. It absolutely turns my stomach to read the justifications for things that Bush would have been blasted for doing.

Should the Obama Administration not be held to the same standard here that the Bush Administration was? I think it should. No, it's not as cathartic or satisfying to criticize someone you voted for and donated lots of money to. But it sure beats turning yourself into a pretzel.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:33 AM

9. Very good post. Thanks.

Hubby and I have always supported Obama, but I do not approve of his education policies.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:07 AM

16. I voted for him twice but I sure don't approve of his of shore drilling policy.

 

I generated some intense dislike (and even calls for my head) from the "he can do know wrong" crowd. Don't let them intimidate you. Many here agree with you.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:17 PM

48. I like Greenwald.

I agree almost completely with his criticisms of Obama and others.

I think what Obama has done on the foreign policy front, while admittedly no different than what any other Democrat would do, is reprehensible. And he needs more critics like Greenwald, not fewer.

And when it comes to whistleblowers, Obama has done an about-face in his actions when compared to his pre-election rhetoric. Once could argue that any politician would do so. This is why I never bought completely into the Obama hype. I knew he was a skillful politician first and foremost and not worthy of the adulation so many have shown.

These are many reasons why I am no longer a registered Democrat. I am officially unaffiliated and will remain so. I held my nose and voted for Obama (I'm in NC, where it actually mattered for once), but I'm happy not to have to do so again.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:34 AM

10. k&r

You are a DU MVP.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:35 AM

11. And I consider you one of those.

So it's mutual.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:44 AM

12. Welcome back

We missed you

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:57 AM

13. That's mutual, I missed you also.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:00 AM

14. I've missed you, MadFL'ian! Glad you're back, and

I couldn't agree with you more re- all of the above.

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Response to snot (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:12 AM

19. Hey there.

Missed your posts. Greenwald's not perfect, no one is. But he deserves better at a forum where we are supposed to be thinkers.

Good to see you.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:02 AM

15. The Bush family was trying to coax teachers into coming on board with Grand Theft Education.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:09 AM

17. You're back!

Missed you and very glad to see you here again.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:12 AM

18. Hi, madfloridian.

So glad you're back!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:13 AM

20. K&R. It is an excellent article.

I agree that the treatment of Manning has been far too cruel and I think he did what he did for the reasons he said he did.

And I thought the Nuremberg principles called upon soldiers to speak out about war crimes.

And I agree with Greenwald that it has been disturbing to see all the vitriol heaped upon Manning while Dick Cheney has actually been interviewed on TV and the other war criminals have been consulted for their opinions on current events,

and the Wall Street criminals have been allowed to carry on and even lecture us now about how the poor must sacrifice more and more.

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Response to Overseas (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:20 AM

25. Nice post. Agree with all you said.

Esp. about Dick Cheney and the Wall Street criminals. There should be accountability for everyone.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:18 AM

21. And yet there are plenty of teachers who still vote for the Rethugs.

That's what I find mystifying . . . that otherwise intelligent people would have such a blind spot.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:42 AM

22. madfloridian! Glad you're back!

I've always enjoyed your posts, and I've missed them!

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Response to calimary (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:18 AM

24. Hey stranger....

been a long time. Missed your work.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:11 PM

60. Likewise!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:46 AM

26. I don't understand the hostility toward Manning. It's interesting that it's bipartisan.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:23 PM

75. Has a lot to do with military worship.

It's okay to commit massive atrocities on Iraqis (also causing them to rise up in an insurgency and thus creating enemies you didn't actually have before).

It's not okay to expose these violations of international law and any sense of universal morality, against the rules of the criminal governments committing the crimes.

Manning of course served humanity - and his country - more than any of the other US-led invaders of Iraq.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:48 AM

27. so glad to see you back. It is time

to get back to the real issues. Education is one of the biggest as I see it and your posts are sorely missed.

I too am mystified by the many teachers and educators who have a gaping blind spot. Perhaps the long hard 40 year campaign against teachers that has reduced both respect and renumeration has taken its toll on the overall quality of people who can survive in the field.

now that the electioneering is over perhaps it will be more acceptable to speak the truth.

welcome back!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:51 AM

28. Yay! your back!

Thanks for the post.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:09 AM

29. Glad to see you back, mf!

It's always great to see another Dean Believer!


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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:45 AM

30. keep fighting the good fight!

 

People deserve to hear this stuff, especially those who disagree. The last thing we need are more left gate keepers!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:04 AM

31. Great article, and happy to see you posting here again, too many good DUers

are no longer here. Greenwald is one of the most consistent defenders of human rights and a very thorough writer. He tells the truth and if that bothers anyone, which it definitely did when Bush was president, that is unfortunate. The way to avoid that is to do what is right.

He is more widely read now than ever and I wish there were more reporters like him.

The war on teachers and the theft of our education funds for private profit is reprehensible.

Thank you for all you do to expose this issue. The media totally ignores it.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:13 AM

32. I'm happy to see you, MadFlo

You write from the heart & the intellect - a wonderful, and yet difficult combination to put together. I have much respect for that. So, again, I am really happy to see you.

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Response to dmr (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:05 PM

74. Good to see you.

Those are possible the nicest words I have heard. Thank you.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:17 AM

33. welcome back you were missed

and don't go away again.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:51 AM

34. Welcome back

Rec

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:58 AM

35. K & R

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:20 AM

45. I love your sig post from Ravitch.

Very true. They have demoralized teachers.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:42 AM

36. respect

that's all i got

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:50 AM

37. Welcome back madfloridian ! nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:54 AM

38. du rec. nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:57 AM

39. Welcome Back, MF!

We missed you. The old warriors ^raises hand^ are still here, most of us anyway, and we STILL have your back -- as we always have.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:32 PM

62. Thanks. You were here a year before I was. Now that's a long time.

A very long time. Don't know about you but this "old warrior" is feeling her age about now.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:59 AM

40. Welcome back, madflo! You're one of my favorites!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:04 AM

41. welcome back

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:11 AM

42. Your presence

improves DU3 by a wide margin.

Personally, I've never had a problem with Greenwald. I agree with him frequently.

I'm a left/liberal focused on issues, not party. AND I'm a teacher, and have experienced first hand what Democratic policies are doing to public education and my profession.

I, too, thought I was pretty moderate when I got to DU a decade ago. While I haven't changed, I'm now too left/liberal for the site, and spend much less time here than I used to.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:13 PM

67. Yes, you have been on the front line speaking out on education.

Anxiety is being felt now even in this ultra-conservative area in Florida. Teachers are wanting to speak out but fearful of how they will be evaluated.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:40 AM

43. "Coming to DU in 2002 as more moderate and centrist....now finding that I am too liberal to fit in."

Welcome back. I also feel the seem away. The Democratic party no longer has any fight in it, plenty of bitching and moaning, but no fight.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:44 AM

44. K&R

It is good to see you jumping into the fray. Your postings have been sorely missed.

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Response to FloriTexan (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:17 PM

68. Thanks for that.

How's the weather there?

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:37 AM

46. I'll take something from Greenwald I don't agree with over anything from Cass Sunstein.

Cass Sunstein vs Glenn Greenwald: Battle Royale in their own words

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002797594

PS: Great to read you, madfloridian-san. The IQ level just went up.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:47 PM

53. Cass Sunstein protected Bush by preaching "harmony"...from 2008.

Politicians, legal experts and progressive activists grappled with Republican abuses of power at the third annual netroots convention on Friday, debating how an Obama Administration might restore the rule of law. Cass Sunstein, an adviser to Barack Obama from the University of Chicago Law School, cautioned against prosecuting criminal conduct from the current Administration. Prosecuting government officials risks a "cycle" of criminalizing public service, he argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton--or even the "slight appearance" of it. Update: Sunstein emailed to emphasize that he also said and believes that "egregious crimes should not be ignored."


He apparently did not consider lies about invading another country to be "egregious". Sickening.

Top Dems say keep harmony, protect Bush. Don Siegelman says "give me a break."

You have no idea how much I appreciate those kind words from you. They mean a lot.

I am watching for you on Twitter. Let me know if you join up.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:20 PM

61. Yes, it is sickening

 

that an Obama advisor would liken the Clinton impeachment to a vast conspiracy of lies to invade Iraq, in any way.

Thanks for the post.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:53 AM

47. Good to see you back MF!

Always appreciate your posts.

--imm

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Response to immoderate (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:47 PM

86. And...

the same back to you.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:30 PM

49. I am so glad you are posting again.

I missed you terribly the last year. Your posts on education were the best. Don't you dare leave again, LOL!

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Response to Jazzgirl (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 02:06 PM

66. Thank you.

I am one of a few still posting at the old DU. Will until they shut it down I guess.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:32 PM

50. Thanks for a good post

I'm new and have appreciated much of the DU, but I am/was a "little old lady in tennis shoes" who was at the MLK civil rights marches and, Peace protests in Washington, arrested in Chicago for protesting the Vietnam War, sitdowns at universities, protests to protect women's rights and Roe v Wade, Earth Day, boycotts for immigrant rights, 2008 and 2012 rallies for Obama in Denver, marched with teachers on strike, worked for gay rights, housing,etc. My point being that I agree with you that Democrats/liberals are not standing up as strongly as we once did, especially against war, the Patriot Act, the military/private contract "security", allowing imprisonment without trial, torture, invading countries, the killing of our planet by Big Oil and "energy needs", buying elections, destroying unions, settling for health care and education "for some", and letting the Ayn Rand rightwing bigots gain power and control and wage war against the have-nots. It's not the good ole' days I miss (we were never the greatest generation) but those like King and Mandela who spoke truth to power even from prison and the young people who really believed if we gave peace and love a chance we could make a difference.

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Response to locks (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:23 PM

80. I am seeing an image form....of a lovely lady. Your words..

Love your description of yourself:

"a "little old lady in tennis shoes" who was at the MLK civil rights marches and, Peace protests in Washington, arrested in Chicago for protesting the Vietnam War, sitdowns at universities, protests to protect women's rights and Roe v Wade"

As I look back, I wish I had done those things. But our very conservative area of FL was far too rigid for anyone of us to consider such protests. Still that way today. We had anti-Iraq war rallies here in 2002-early 2003.....and they brought lots of attention. Much of it unpleasant.

Hey, my dad had to fight his fellow Southern Baptist deacons so I could go see Elvis come to town. But he did fight them and won.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:43 PM

51. Welcome back! This place has moved to the Right. Grab a rope and help pull it back from the ledge.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:04 PM

59. I can't believe there are DUers siding AGAINST Manning.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #59)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:55 PM

65. Not only against Manning, there's a Hate Assange Battallion dug in here. Now, that's strange for a

supposedly "underground" site.

Look, Pvt. Manning is enlisted in the US Army and he violated a signed non-disclose agreement, so he knew he was in for a ton of Officially Issued US S--t to fall on his head. He martyred himself, as surely as if he threw himself on a hand grenade. But, Assange at least has some expectation of protection as a journalist which in the US, at least, used to carry some First Amendment Protection. Apparently, not anymore.

That there's more than a handful of devoted, long-term Assange haters and a vocal minority here who also seem committed to whipping up suspicion against whistleblowers, more broadly, tells me that: a) this isn't isolated or unorganized; 2) its issue management; and 3) this Board is viewed as having some importance, primarily because of it high Google rank positioning.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #65)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:41 PM

82. I am in agreement with your sentiment.


I would have more sympathy for Manning if he was passing out secret information against a particular policy rather than what seems to be an attempt to offload everything he could get his hands on.

I also am not a fan of Assange because he is equally happy to pass out information that will sink diplomatic talks as he is to pass out evidence of a war crime.

Nevertheless Manning knowingly broke the law but should be treated humanely, and Assange should be prosecuted only for actual crimes and I can't see that acting as a publisher of secret information is not a crime.

It is unfortunate that we didn't have similar leaks going into Iraq, and those that support the intimidation of Assange with non related legal moves have to accept that in the future other media outlets will be less likely to publish secrets that need to be exposed if they are successful with Assange, although his peculiar methodology may undermine his status as a precedent.

I favor prosecuting Manning (not for signing a 'non-disclose agreement but for violating an oath not to leak classified material) and giving him a pardon in a few years. He seems to have some mental health problems to me.

Assange should be prosecuted if he actually breaks the law, which I can't see that he has done yet.

Its too bad that we don't have a Wikileaks operation that is more responsible and less an outgrowth of one particular person's personality.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #82)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:52 PM

97. I am in agreement with everything you just said.

Particularly:

It is unfortunate that we didn't have similar leaks going into Iraq, and those that support the intimidation of Assange with non related legal moves have to accept that in the future other media outlets will be less likely to publish secrets that need to be exposed if they are successful with Assange . . .


I think that history will reflect that President Obama tragically missed the last opportunity to turn this country around before it became a cybernetic police state, and that the next war will tear this country apart because the governing and national security elites forgot that their highest responsibility is to preserve the U.S. Constitution.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:47 PM

52. Madflo, thank you for bringing back you insight, passion, and thoughtfulness

Don't apologize for a damn thing to those Turd Wayers. They need to made to either sit in the corner with a dunce cap or go crawling back to the TeaPubliKlans whose ideology they value so deeply.

Amoral gasbags and game players.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:48 PM

54. DURec!

...and happy to see you!
DU has lost too many of the Best & the Brightest.





"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


Solidarity!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:51 PM

56. bvar22 Hi there!

Guess what. I just checked out my "transparency" page. In the short time I've been here I have 3 ignoring me and 3 blocking me from sending a pm.

How about that? Didn't take long.

Good to see you.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:51 PM

55. Wow, this is like the old DU again!

I had given up on posting here for many of the reasons Mad Floridian mentioned.

Good to see some familiar faces for a change.

K&R

Perhaps it's time to hold some Feet to the Fire.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 12:58 PM

57. Glad to see you're back.

I was just thinking of you earlier this week.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:00 PM

58. Wlelcome back, MF!!!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:35 PM

63. Great big huge hairy screaming

Welcome back!



You have been missed.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 01:46 PM

64. Thanks, Will. Been keeping up on your stuff here.

Appreciate the kind words so much.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:09 PM

70. we need you now more than ever.

keep up the great work.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:11 PM

71. Hi madfloridian.....

...... it is indeed good to see your name attached to an OP again.


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Response to marmar (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:25 PM

73. Been a long time. Good to see you.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:27 PM

72. Let me add my voice to those saying: "Welcome back!"

We need more liberal voices on DU. We need to drag the 'center' of the dialogue back to left, both here and nationally!

I will add the disclaimer that there is (and should be) a broad range of opinions among those who self-identify as Liberal or Progressive. The internet should be a forum to allow as many voices as possible to be heard. I'm glad yours is among those again!

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:24 PM

76. Hey yeah! Why do I remember you so well?

Because you tell it so well - so straight - so true.

You're always welcome to me.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #76)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:49 PM

96. I try to.

I try to do that, but I don't always succeed. Kind words.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:43 PM

77. not wanting to stir...

You say ''Before I post I usually do a search to determine the atmosphere on a particular topic. Since I am just starting to post here again after a year, I try not to post stuff to cause anger."

As long as your post is not intended to simply cause anger or to stir the pot,then if by telling the truth as you see it in order to call out wrong doing feel free to STIR the pot ALL you want...

I certainly have been called a traitor and a lot of other names for my defense of Manning and Assange.

While Manning knew what he was getting into,it does not justify our governments mistreatment of an individual!!

EVER!!!

And the fact that more individuals say "well as long as it's not me being mistreated" then it's OK!!scares the HELL out of me!!!

How many Germans said that and then looked the other way???

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Response to janlyn (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:10 PM

88. Oh, I agree with you.

I was cautious in beginning to post at this forum for reasons that date back last year. Some anonymous stuff that was disturbing, lots of it.

Don't worry, I will do my share of irritating people. Give me time.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:43 PM

78. Welcome back, Madfloridian

We're in a real battle. Your voice is needed here.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:49 PM

79. welcome back..the education forum is`t what it used to be!

but i did put the hammer down this morning when someone said we should look to duncan as an example of a community organizer.....ya.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:25 PM

81. Also ed forum is two layers down, hard to find.

4 more years of Arne will be the end of public schools, I fear.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:50 PM

83. Welcome back, and a toon

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Response to n2doc (Reply #83)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:34 PM

94. Love the cartoon.

Thanks for sharing.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 06:54 PM

84. HeyHeyHey!!! MF !

Where have you been?

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Response to janx (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:25 PM

90. Janx!

I have been posting around, mainly at Daily Kos and Twitter. And at the old DU as well.

Been a long time, good to see you. Ran across some old Dean Campaign stuff, decided it was past time to get rid of it. That was quite a time.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:11 PM

85. I find Greenwald's polemical excesses and lack of clarity undermines what may be valid points.

His previous points on Manning's detention reflected his treatment at the Marine brig at Quantico.

Manning was removed to Leveanworth in April 2011.

Here is an article that is critical of Manning's detention but seems much more factual and does not seem to indicate that the harsh treatment that Greenwald pointed out before continued past that time.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/08/general-manning-jail-treatment/

Greenwalds' lavish praise of Manning, his reflexive hatred of Obama and his willingness to blur the facts of the case show that he is not an objective presenter of facts, even though sometimes his information is correct and helpful.

On another point the treatment of Manning shows the value of the mission of the ICRC. The International Committee of the Red Cross (which is completely different from national red cross societies) has a specific mission that includes specifically visiting prisoners, getting facts and reporting the facts directly to the head of state so that the heads of state can get an objective picture on how prisoners are being treated.

We should, of course, insist on the fair treatment of all prisoners everywhere, especially if they are involved in crimes related to war, and the best way to ensure that is to support the ICRC.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/what-we-do/visiting-detainees/overview-visiting-detainees.htm

Welcome back (or should I say welcome on moving from DU2).

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Response to grantcart (Reply #85)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:07 PM

87. I moved on long ago.

To twitter to Daily Kos, et al. I have several places that link to my journal at the old DU....so it is really about keeping that going.

Thanks for the dubious welcome.

I have many mixed feelings about what Manning did. I have no mixed feelings when Democratic strategists laughingly mock any form of torture. Joy Reid did that. I resent it. We should never laugh at any kind of torture.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:24 PM

89. Hello again to a real education warrior!

I've been gone for sometime as well, on the never-ending quest for personal and familial balance.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:06 PM

91. K&R






''Iím for truth, no matter who tells it.'' ~Malcolm X

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:08 PM

92. Welcome back! I've soooooo quietly missed you and your education expertise....

That's an area that's way out of my realm of experience & expertise, so I've relied in the past on your posts to inform me and be a jumping off point for following your links and learning more. I started/head a couple of groups of progressives who simply share news stories, and your links and the information you imparted has filled many pages of information that was shared in an attempt to educate other progressives who don't belong to DU. Boy did I miss you at times when education issues arose and I wanted a more informed voice to fill out what I perceived as gaping holes in the information I was getting! I came here and looked for you and, having missed your goodbye post, admit to frustration that I couldn't find your guiding wisdom on those issues! (How's that for a spoiled statement!? ) So here is a huge welcome back hug from an undeclared admirer!

Now, all of that said, I also agree 100% with your post about Greenwald, Manning, Pres. Obama & DU. K&R

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Response to tpsbmam (Reply #92)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 09:29 PM

93. Okay, now...

Last edited Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:33 PM - Edit history (1)

that was one of the nicest things anyone said to me. Warmed my heart.

People are not able to hear from the regular news sources what is really going on in education. Only a few bloggers even bother anymore.

I remember when the media flooded our minds with all the weapons of destruction in Iraq when it wasn't true at all. They have their lines of propaganda, and often the truth doesn't matter.

Many teachers are really just understanding that no matter how good they are...it just doesn't matter. The reformers have their agenda, they have the money, they have the media.

back

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:38 PM

95. Madfloridan

For the Record Dan Kildee a Democratic Representative from Michigan's 5th district supports school teachers and public education. Secondly i just started to follow you on twitter. Keep up the good work.

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Response to tiredtoo (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:14 AM

103. Hi there.

Pop me a DM at twitter so I know who to follow back. I did follow Dan Kildee because of his stance. Can't tell if that is who you are. Twitter names are different than here often.

Thanks for the post.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:55 PM

98. I am so glad to see you back. I have missed you very, very much.







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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Reply #98)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:53 AM

106. Back at you.

Things just seem different.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:34 PM

99. What a pleasant surprise!!!! You are here.

I have missed your posts so much. When I have the time, I have been going back to the old DU to see what you were writing about. I hope you stay. I always looked forward to your well researched and well written and thoughtful posts!

Thank you for posting this and for your comments.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:36 PM

100. If he's no longer a suicide risk, he should get his pillow and blanket back.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:05 AM

101. I always love what you have to say -- and I'm so happy to see you back!

Going to read the piece now. I don't have to agree (although I generally do with Greenwald) in order to learn from it.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:08 AM

102. k/r for mf

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:16 AM

104. I didn't post an article about Susan Rice the other day for the same reasons

 

I didn't want to read all the personal attacks towards me and the author from AlterNet.

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Response to just1voice (Reply #104)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:52 AM

105. It shouldn't be that way.

On any topic.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 04:33 AM

107. making a random appearance on here to say, right on MF!



this is so true!!

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Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #107)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 01:12 PM

108. Now that is heartwarming, DD

That "random appearance" is special.

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