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Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:08 AM

Yes you were a rapist....

This whole it was a different era back then and it was deemed OK to sexually assault an unconscious woman is pure unadulterated bullshit.

My hope is that one of the victims reads the Op below, puts two and two together, figures out who this guy is, and then seeks justice in every way possible.

So to answer the question, YEAH YOU'RE A FUCKING RAPIST AND YOU SHOULD BE IN JAIL!!!

Nuff said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021904579

82 replies, 6664 views

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Arrow 82 replies Author Time Post
Reply Yes you were a rapist.... (Original post)
trumad Nov 2012 OP
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #1
trumad Nov 2012 #2
Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #12
seabeyond Nov 2012 #14
FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #22
seabeyond Nov 2012 #23
CoffeeCat Nov 2012 #26
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #63
LAGC Nov 2012 #3
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #4
tjwash Nov 2012 #18
OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #19
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #47
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #5
redqueen Nov 2012 #6
seabeyond Nov 2012 #7
BlueToTheBone Nov 2012 #8
seabeyond Nov 2012 #9
BlueToTheBone Nov 2012 #16
seabeyond Nov 2012 #17
BlueToTheBone Nov 2012 #32
Tree-Hugger Nov 2012 #73
BlueToTheBone Nov 2012 #74
Sheldon Cooper Nov 2012 #21
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #64
WI_DEM Nov 2012 #10
seabeyond Nov 2012 #11
davsand Nov 2012 #13
Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #15
BlueToTheBone Nov 2012 #33
ProfessorGAC Nov 2012 #51
LittleBlue Nov 2012 #57
dotymed Nov 2012 #20
seabeyond Nov 2012 #24
Mojorabbit Nov 2012 #28
seabeyond Nov 2012 #29
cali Nov 2012 #25
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #27
seabeyond Nov 2012 #38
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #41
tj_crackersnatch Nov 2012 #30
Arugula Latte Nov 2012 #35
tj_crackersnatch Nov 2012 #36
seabeyond Nov 2012 #40
seabeyond Nov 2012 #39
davidn3600 Nov 2012 #60
tj_crackersnatch Dec 2012 #82
Bonobo Nov 2012 #31
JustJoe Nov 2012 #34
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #37
tj_crackersnatch Nov 2012 #43
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #44
tj_crackersnatch Nov 2012 #45
NCTraveler Nov 2012 #42
Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #46
DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2012 #48
Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #50
seabeyond Nov 2012 #58
DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2012 #71
Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #72
JesterCS Nov 2012 #49
REP Nov 2012 #52
JesterCS Nov 2012 #55
JohnnyLib2 Nov 2012 #53
Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #56
REP Nov 2012 #68
JoeyT Nov 2012 #76
Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #77
raccoon Dec 2012 #81
patrice Nov 2012 #54
seabeyond Nov 2012 #59
patrice Nov 2012 #61
seabeyond Nov 2012 #65
patrice Nov 2012 #67
Evoman Nov 2012 #62
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #66
KitSileya Dec 2012 #79
patrice Nov 2012 #69
abelenkpe Nov 2012 #70
JoeyT Nov 2012 #75
Raine Dec 2012 #78
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #80

Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:18 AM

1. My father is older than the OP of that thread

And, I texted him about the thread and then sent it to him. He said BS. Guys knew it was wrong then.

It was the late 70s/early 80s, not the 1880s.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:21 AM

2. I'm the same age... 55

To say that it was OK to sexually assault an unconscious woman----what---back in the seventies--- is utter bullshit!

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Response to trumad (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:49 AM

12. I knew it was illegal as a teenager, too (now 36), BUT

It needs to be said that not everyone had the same upbringing or grew up in the same environment...And sadly there are more than enough people who believe it's "perfectly OK" that it continues to be a problem...I work on a college campus, and that attitude still continues to carry on among some from generation to generation...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:57 AM

14. this is the point. it is still happening today. a poster said, we put the girl in a room. NO ONE

rpaed them.

ya, right. and how does this poster KNOW no one raped the girls? he isnt thinking about it. not considering it. back to the party playing and drinking. all is right in the world. it has gone thru the crowd, drunk girl in room passed out. a couple buddies giggle, sneak in the room, rape and walk away.

it is STILL happening today.

and let us not pretend otherwise.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:55 AM

22. I don't think anyone is.

You'd have to be an absolute idiot to think it's not happening today, but I don't hear anyone saying that.

What I hear people saying is, "It's wrong now, just as it was wrong then, and people knew it. Some knew it and did it anyway, but they still knew it. Those who did it anyway were even more likely to get away with it than they are now, but they still knew it."

If the OP in that other thread didn't think it was wrong, he wouldn't have to wait until she was unconscious to have sex with her. If he thought she was willing, he could have just asked. He knew full well what he was doing. He is hiding behind "times were different" and "there was peer pressure."

He's still not taking responsibility.

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Response to FightForMichigan (Reply #22)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:59 AM

23. you have seen an incredible eye opening on du that we have not had in years....

you do not know how long we have fought, just to have this be heard.

anyway... good chatting, and i am assuming you are relatively new. welcome to du.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:18 AM

26. I responded to that OP in this way--from a victim's perspective...

As a victim of rape and child molestation...

...I would just like to say "thank you" for actually admitting that you were wrong.

I have been in therapy for nearly 15 years due to the kind of sexual abuse that you admit to have perpetrated. The damage is real and it just never ends. I have PTSD, an eating disorder and I go in and out of depressions. I have sat in support groups and listened to other women's stories--how they passed out or how passing out and being raped was one of a series of traumas that happened in their lives.

Because you can look back and realize that what you did was wrong--maybe you are open to understanding what happens to girls and women who are victims of sexual abuse. Remember those "sluts" or those drunk girls at the parties? Chances are, those girls were victims of sexual abuse or other kinds of abuse--beatings, physical abuse--at home. Those girls were desperately disconnected and damaged. They didn't care about themselves, because their humanity was wadded up and thrown in the trash--by their fathers and mothers--the very people who were supposed to love and protect them, but didn't. So, these girls go to parties and they treat themselves as they are treated as home---recklessly and without any thought to their humanity. So they get drunk to numb the pain, do drugs and put themselves in vulnerable situations--because they're in an emotional stupor and they don't care about themselves anymore.

The girls who were raised by loving parents were studying, preparing for college, and spending time with family members who respected them and protected them. Those "sluts"--as you call them--were acting out pain--that you inevitably capitalized on.

So really, when you committed these acts--you were just one chapter in some very difficult personal stories. I was one of these girls. For a couple of years, I behaved like this. However, it wasn't about sex. I wasn't getting anything out of it. I had disassociated from myself. I had become the trash that I was treated like at home.

When I was in seventh grade, a bunch of popular sophomore guys thought it would be funny to give me vodka. I was staying overnight with at my 7th grade girlfriend's house--and her older brothers and their friends did this. I passed out and the rest is history.

But these guys and their vodka came along--during the height of major trauma and sexual abuse that was happening in my own home. I remember going along with the vodka because I didn't feel that I had the right to say no. I didn't feel like a person. I felt like a powerless object. I could barely sense that I was in danger because I was so disassociated from my own feelings and needs. I had none. I wasn't supposed to have any.

And boy did these sophomore boys talk about what happened. They blamed me. They laughed about it. They labeled me with a horrible reputation that still follows me today--some forty years later. Lovely huh?

Because I've got you here--a perpetrator who understands that what he did was wrong--maybe you could apologize to your victims? As a victim, I can tell you that it would be healing and helpful. It won't be a cure, but it will go a long way.

If you truly are sorry and if you truly realize that what you did was wrong--then you will try to make this right. There is a difference between realizing that what you did was wrong--as you have admitted--and actually having remorse. Do you have remorse? Do you care that you capitalized on the sexual trauma of young girls who were so broken that they lacked the capacity to grow up normally?

These girls were derailed, likely by their caregivers, but you played a part in keeping them derailed. You need to own that, understand that and consider apologizing to them. Chances are, there are many perpetrators in their history. If just one apologized and told them that it wasn't their fault--it would make a huge difference.

I bet most of these "sluts" as you say, are still suffering greatly--similar to my own healing journey. You will never know what it is like to feel emotional pain like this. It is lifelong torture. I'm sure the thought of apologizing leaves you uncomfortable, but please remember that the emotional pain of sexual abuse--incurred during childhood, the teen years and early adulthood is emotionally draining and exhaustive. It's also expensive--I've spent tens of thousands in therapy. It also affects your health.

Think about it. I strongly urge you to apologize. Your "realizations" mean nothing if they are just words on a messageboard. Put them to action.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:29 PM

63. It was still rape in the 1880s

Rape is rape. Doesn't change over time. This rapist had no need to ask the question "Was I a rapist?" If he was looking for absolution, he shouldn't have tried to justify it with BS like "peer pressure" and "everyone did it".

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:23 AM

3. I'm beginning to think he's a FReeper troll trying to make the site look bad.

That whole thread ought to be zapped.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:26 AM

4. I wondered that, too

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Response to LAGC (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:36 AM

18. Reminds me more of those creeps that commit crimes and then send taunting letters about it

nt

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Response to LAGC (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:41 AM

19. I alerted on that post as "inappropriate", but the jury voted 5-1 to keep it....

...Why? I don't have any friggin' clue. I still strongly believe that thread needs to be hidden, deleted, zapped, erased as soon as possible.

I'm almost 62, and the whole idea that anyone thought it was "okay at the time" to take ultimate advantage of a passed out girl is incredibly repugnant to me on a variety of different levels.

No, it was NOT "okay", and that OP should have known that without having to be taught or told by anyone else.

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Response to LAGC (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 02:55 PM

47. Maybe someone should tell him to lock the thread or delete it.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 08:34 AM

5. I knew it was wrong late 70s to early 80s

 

Even made it explicit to an acquaintance who thought he would take advantage of a passed out woman at a party. Told him he had to go through me if he thought he was going to rape her, and yes, I used the "rape" word because that was precisely what he wanted to do.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:17 AM

6. Thank you nt

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #5)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:20 AM

7. yes. but, there was a guy, just a guy right? no tattoo saying monster. a guy that did think he

could do this.

yea you... it takes ONE young man to stand up, yea you, that you did that.

but, you illustrate that this guy felt he could.

that is what is still happening across the campus.

is it rape. hell yes. but, it is there. now what?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:21 AM

8. I think he wants absolution

and I don't have enough compassion to give it to him. I want him to pay for his crimes and then I'll feel compassion. But to confess and then expect forgiveness doesn't work. Atonement must come in to the equation and a post on DU won't do.

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:23 AM

9. i think he is reading threads where women are saying it happens, and we are fighting with men tellin

us not....

and he put himself out there to say, ya, it happens.

there is nothing i like about the OP. made me sick last night. kept me up way late.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:31 AM

16. I'm working on a Tonglin meditation

where you sit quietly and breathe in the pain of the women of the world who have been raped and tortured and enslaved and treated less than and breathe out peace and love for those people. That is the end part.

You begin with breathing in your own and out to your self, then to those close to you, then your "community" and then to the greater world.

Then the really hard part is to breathe in the pain of those who rape, torture and enslave. Tibetan Buddhism states that they must have peace also if we are to be able to have true peace. But hard to do. I think that one would be a Bodhisattva at that point.

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:33 AM

17. please,

let me just give you a huge hug. a thank you. i know only some people can get this. i am one. and it means so so so much to me.

thank you

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:54 AM

32. It's freeing.

I knew you would understand.

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:38 PM

73. Wow. Bless you. nt

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Response to Tree-Hugger (Reply #73)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:10 PM

74. Don't get too excited!

I'm no Bodhisattva!

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:54 AM

21. That's how I read it, too.

He was explaining that it does indeed happen and anyone who thinks it doesn't (or didn't) is dead wrong. I didn't see it as bragging or taunting. I do think he needs to do some more work on 100% ownership of his actions, as he doesn't appear to be 'there' yet.

Or, he could be a big old Freeper troll who is making us all look stupid. Either way, I think it's a discussion worth having.

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Response to BlueToTheBone (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:35 PM

64. Problem is, he isn't really confessing.

If he were, then he would've received a little respect. However, his post demonstrated that he wasn't sure if committed rape. Very disingenuous.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:23 AM

10. Hell, my grandpa told me there were rules and one rule was never to

take advantage of a woman especially if she had too much to drink. This 'different times' arguement is bull crap.

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Response to WI_DEM (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:26 AM

11. that is what i grew up hearing, with the boys i hung out with. that does not mean that there were

not fathers that encourage, and still today snicker and jab in the ribs of a son, that girls are to be used. and teach their boys that. and mothers that shrug, saying boys will be boys, or have an environment in the home that teaches this to kids. both gender.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:55 AM

13. If you pounce when somebody is incapacitated, yes, you are a rapist.

I find it troubling that there is still the isolated idea out there that it is even remotely ok to jump on anyone who is not capable of making an informed/aware decision.

I also find it troubling that the pervasive attitude is that rape only happens to women. Men are victimized too--and if you think being a female rape victim is tough to handle, stop and consider just what the pressures are on a man in that same situation.

Victimization is wrong no matter who it is or what the situation is. THAT is the message we need to be teaching ALL our kids (and all the adults, too, it appears...)



Laura

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:59 AM

15. Should Skinner hand that DUer's IP address to the police? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:55 AM

33. A moral question. n/t

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:29 PM

51. Pointless

As distasteful as those actions are, and illegal, the story indicates a time such that the statute of limitations has long since elapsed. Sneding it to the cops would just waste their time.
GAC

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #15)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:59 PM

57. Pointless. The police won't care

1) Too long ago
2) The victim can't be found
3) He could just say he made it up (he may have)

The police won't bother because a prosecution is impossible.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:43 AM

20. I was a hard partier and terrible "womanizer"

in the 70's & 80's. I enjoyed partying and sex. If (and it happened more than once) a woman "had too much" and passed out or was even too drunk to realize what was happening, Then I made sure that they were safe and would never have dreamed of raping her.
Sex is a mutually consented to act. Even if we had sex previously, it is not mine to take.
Honestly, I find it repulsive to consider having sex with an unresponsive partner....yech.
And yes, as a male, I had a campus cop invite me over to his house to watch football while his wife and child were gone. He was supplying the beer and I usually had to go across the state line to drink.
That bastard actually tried to drug my drink so he could rape me. Luckily, I tasted the medicinal taste and refused any more.
I was an 18 y.o. kid. I should have reported his ass, but I figured "who are they going to believe" and warned everyone that I could about this rapist.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:06 AM

24. first, it is a tell that you knew to keep the girl safe. right? and second

i am glad you were able to realize what was happening. and yes. it happens to a guy.

my boys and hubby and i talking about rape. and women, in certain situations are aware, and can be fearful. what a man should do so the woman is not fearful in these situations.

i was explaining how for a woman all men are potential rapists and why that statement is true. dont take personally. cause VAST MAJORITY of men do not rape. just a woman doesnt know the who, that does.

my son was so surprised. he says, you go out and think about rape, when you are in public? a cncept he had never considered. told him, yes, in situations, of course.

just to show son the difference, i said to hubby... have you ever been fearful of rape. i was expecting a no.

he said yes. once.

that was an eye opener for me.

later he told me at the university he was drunk, probably wasted. he got separated by his group, and ended up with two guys. some how got back to their dorm. at a point got really uncomfortable and literally ran.... trust you instincts.

but.... it is not only girls.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #24)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:38 AM

28. I had to explain to my hubby

That I am always aware of my surroundings and that most women are. We were on vacation once and a group of drunk men were approaching in the dark on a lonely road and I made him cross the street and he was baffled.

That being said, I came up in the 70s and it happened to me and I can say no one was surprised as if it was uncommon. It was my fault for being in the wrong place and drinking was the prevailing Attitude. It happened to too many women I knew. You learn to not put yourself in a vulnerable position. It is a damaging lesson and you lose trust in the goodness of people.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #28)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:43 AM

29. yes majorabbit

to all that you say. i hear ya. just that.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:14 AM

25. thanks, trumad. I read your op before going into the other thread. I wish I hadn't

really upset now, so thanks again for your op.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:20 AM

27. I Ran With A Pretty Fast Crowd. Grew Up In The 70s

I can honestly say that the lion's share of my peers wouldn't have taken advantage of a passed out young woman. We didn't have to and we knew, even then, it was messed up.

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #27)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:29 PM

38. the lions share. but you knew some. i knew some. that world still exists. and that is what we

are airing out.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #38)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:33 PM

41. I Know A Guy Who Is Now In Prison

When we were teenagers he literally wanted to be a capo. He is the only one of my peers I could imagine doing such a thing. In fact there isn't much I couldn't imagine him doing.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:50 AM

30. i feel sick to my stomach

I read the original OP and what stuck out to me is, that while he was repenting by venting, he still refers to these women as "sluts" and "fair game". These women today are someone's mother and grandmother but he hasn't gotten past objectifying them in such a repulsive way. I don't especially think he is sorry and I do think he posted his "repentance" as some sort of creepy, cheap thrill.

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Response to tj_crackersnatch (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:06 PM

35. Oh, and he HAD to "fuck something" or else he'd go crazy.

He sounds like a sociopath who doesn't see other people as humans, just objects for his own use.

What a creep. I hope he suffers some consequences eventually.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:22 PM

36. i wonder if he has unknown child out there

Or put some woman into the position of having an abortion because she was "legitimately" raped by some scuzball. Puke.

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Response to tj_crackersnatch (Reply #36)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:32 PM

40. i wondered that also. and if he has children he raised. and did he raise like/like

or did he teach his sons different.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #35)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:31 PM

39. not crazy. die. but then how much power do we put behind male sexuality in all of society. it is

all awesome, all powerful, god like 24/7.

so though girls to have sexual urges, why would boys not believe that theirs are so fuckin incredible they will DIE.... if they do not get it.

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Response to tj_crackersnatch (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:06 PM

60. Women use the terms "slut" and "whore" far more than men do

It seems to be the words of choice when women want to insult one another.

I can't tell you how many times I've overheard women talking to each other and start referring to some other woman as a "slut" or other sexually-based derogatory names.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 08:47 PM

82. it must be the company you keep

Ya think?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:53 AM

31. Glad to see, after some thought, you are now sure of it.

For most of us, there was no real need to think about it.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:01 PM

34. He raped "MANY WOMEN."

"...I took advantage of many women that could be considered Rape."

Assuming the story is true, how many is many and when did he stop raping?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:22 PM

37. A very upsetting thread on many levels, not the least of which is the

 

tone of 'notch in the belt' score keeping that seems to persist to this day with that DUer.

Here's what I just now posted over there (lightly edited for formatting purposes):

"If this OP isn't pure bullshit and flameware, then I would think it would be incumbent upon you to spend every waking instant of what remains of your life trying to contact your victims to apologize to them, try to make amends and seek their forgiveness. Rather than spend time in flagellant mode posting on DU."

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #37)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:44 PM

43. Bravo!

I agree with you both. Has he educated his own children or has he let it ride on the "boys will be boys" fallacy? And if his putrid story is true he should be crawling through broken glass to find a way to repent to his victims instead of trying to find understanding and forgiveness in strangers. What a blot on humanity.

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Response to tj_crackersnatch (Reply #43)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:48 PM

44. I've now gone back and edited the post to which you responded so that it reads

 

Last edited Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

'faux-flagellant' rather than 'flagellant'. Because I don't trust even his psuedo-epiphany any longer. CoffeeCat's post in the original thread (#299) cuts right thru his bullshit.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #44)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 01:13 PM

45. thanx for pointing me to coffee cats post

There are alot of us walking wounded who share similar stories. I was molested by the male babysitter for the crime of being asleep in my bed. Couldn't have been more than 6yo. It effects you the rest of your life.

Thanks for the chat

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:38 PM

42. I wish I hadn't read the other op.

I think that person is even sicker than the op lets on. And that is sick. I think it is time to stop responding. That sick fuck should have no place here. I pray for his victims.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 02:52 PM

46. What I'm finding interesting about these threads

is the almost universal proclamations of innocence by the vast majority of men on this forum. I was a teenager and young adult in the '60s and early '70s and I can say without equivocation that I went on very few dates where the boys/young men didn't at least try to get grabby, and many to the point where I either felt compelled to give in or was subjected to a very unpleasant "scene." Did I just run into that (at least according to DU) tiny minority of guys who didn't know how to behave? Was I so irresistible that the guys couldn't keep their hands off of me? Or did the boys tacitly believe for whatever reason that they should take what they could get? It's just hard for me to take seriously all the shock and horror being expressed here, based on my own experience.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:07 PM

48. guilty until proven innocent?

I can't speak for any other guys here, but I never raped any women. I never took advantage of any women who were passed out. I was a nerd, was afraid to approach women for consensual sex, much less nonconsensual sex. I hope I've become somewhat less of a nerd over the years, but I still wouldn't have sex with someone who did not want it (I'm married, but if we're going to be intimate, we both need to be in the mood, period), or someone who was passed out and didn't have the opportunity to consent. None of this makes me a hero, none of it garners me "sensitive male of the year" award--it just means I don't need to go to prison for sex crimes. Extrapolate. There must be lots and lots of guys just like me who don't get off on nonconsensual sex, including what I hope is a very large percentage of male DUers.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #48)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:24 PM

50. I was only speaking from personal experience

and wondering if any of my grabby gentlemen friends from days gone by may have selective memories about what went on in those back seats at the drive-ins. As I said, maybe Pasadena, Texas, was just an enclave of misbehaving teenage boys, but I rather doubt if it was unique.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #50)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:59 PM

58. mine was later 70's and 80's and in calif. the dates i had, i never had a problem with the guys.

the guys i picked to go out with werent the problem for me.

but... not saying there were not issues at that time. not from the dates though.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #50)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:05 PM

71. I'm sure it wasn't unique

My only purpose was to point out that while you're no doubt correct about many men acting doe-eyed and innocent when they're not, there are also lots of guys who would never be that way. Have a great weekend.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #71)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:22 PM

72. Thanks, and I'm sure you're correct.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:20 PM

49. Apparently my reply got hidden on that thread

I said EVERYONE makes mistakes. No one is infallible. Apparently that was enough to get it hidden. Not that I'm excusing what he did, I just meant that people sometimes do things they later regret. I myself have never forced myself on a woman, and never would.

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Response to JesterCS (Reply #49)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:41 PM

52. Saying rape is a "mistake" is a tad revolting

Rape isn't a fender-bender. Rape isn't a prank. Rape isn't a semester of bad grades.

Rape is an assault on another person.

Now, if that's too abstract, imagine someone put up an OP about "Oopsy, I might have raped someone" and that someone turned out to be your child. Or you.

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Response to REP (Reply #52)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:47 PM

55. Trust me I know. I have 5 nieces and nephews

all under the age of 10, and if anyone did that to them, they would be a dead person fairly quickly.

I didnt mean my reply to come off as being apologetic to the OP of the other thread. Perhaps I should have thought about it more thoroughly before replying.

I apologize to anyone who it may have offended.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:42 PM

53. Good points. I'm some years older but can remember many such scenes and stories.


If anything, the male peer pressure was in the grabby direction. Yes, "selective memory" sounds accurate.

On a broader scale, I suspect the general definition as well as comprehension of "rape" has shifted across time in a way similar to how "sexual abuse" has a different meaning than years ago.

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Response to JohnnyLib2 (Reply #53)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:54 PM

56. Indeed.

I remember one time going to a party at that bastion of correctness, Texas A&M, where I unfortunately drank too much and woke up the next morning knowing that (I assume) my cadet date had had his way with me. I just chalked it up to my own foolishness for getting that drunk and went on with my life. It never occurred to me to press charges or to accuse anyone of rape, and I'm not suffering for it these many years later. It's just something that happened, along with a lot of other stuff in my youth. That's not to say it was right what he did, and I'm glad that there is more awareness these days of what's acceptable behavior, but to assert that these things happened only rarely seems counterproductive to me.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:50 PM

68. Selective memory or, possibly, something else

That "something else" being that the majority of men saying they didn't act that way are not lying, and also are either from a) different age groups b) different social standings in high school/college c) regional behavioral expectations differ (even from one neighborhood school to another) d) older Internet users may imply early adopters, which may imply other things (in general, not specifically), etc.

This is not about the original thread - he's a rapist, period.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #46)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:42 PM

76. I don't know what to tell you.

I was a teenager in the 90s. I was taught that not only was an inebriated woman off limits, but to react violently to anyone messing with an unconscious or semi-conscious woman.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:57 PM

77. Yes, I believe that in the years since my generation was young

societal attutudes toward date rape and so on have shifted radically, which is a good thing. As I mentioned in the original thread that started all of this discussion, we as young women had no recourse when it came to workplace sexual harassment either.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 07:46 PM

81. A-fricking-men! That's been my experience too. nt

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 03:43 PM

54. And still is in certain more meta- ways now, by forcing certain attitudes against those who

call bullshit on his "innocence" here and now on this board.

Everyone involved in those threads should ask themselves what, exactly, that OP is getting out of what he is doing and decide how they feel about gratifying whatever that motive is for him.

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Response to patrice (Reply #54)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:02 PM

59. i know a lot think it is made up. personally, i feel he was reading all the threads

talking about date rapes, men denying and he put it out there to say, ya.... guys think this way. i did. others did.

i think he probably greatly wishes he had not posted.

but, that is my take,

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #59)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:24 PM

61. I can say that I was quite surprised when I saw something like this some time ago and

guys you'd think would be strongly inclined to at least CONSIDER the accusations (though not all of the guys) immediately started, and subsequently never stopped, with the "Innocent until PROVEN guilty" response to everything and, since none of us were present when what had happened went down, they had us cornered and they knew it, which re-doubled their efforts at creating doubt about the 2 young ladies who had issues with a certain person. This did not turn out well for anyone except the person who had always had all means necessary to avoid the consequences of his actions. Kind of like here, but more concretely consequential than a bunch of coded digits on the internet.

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Response to patrice (Reply #61)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:36 PM

65. ...

i am so fuckin gullible. who knows, lol.

some of us hate to admit it. some of us simply know it is a reality.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #65)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:48 PM

67. Oh, I'm pretty trusting too, but I have learned a few things from experiences ...

Still hoping for all of Us, though.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:28 PM

62. Passed out? Fuck, if a girl isn't sober enough to drive, she is not sober enough for me to sleep

with. I know that restricts a lot of you rapey morons without any game, but so what? If you ain't good enough for her sober, you shouldn't be good enough for her drunk. The only exception i've ever made to this rule myself is for my tipsy fiancee, who insisted strongly....very strongly...that I do my manly duties, despite initial protests on my part.

However, Fucking a passed out girl is fucking sick, and without a doubt worthy of jail time. So many pathetic pieces of shit. I wish I could punch you in the larynx.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:47 PM

66. To whoever idiot dude originally asked this question

Let me ask ya this:

Suppose you had a daughter, a sister, a niece, a cousin. Now, imagine she ran into someone who did exactly what you did, in exactly the way you did it.

When your relative told you what happened, I do not think there would be any sort of vagueness to whether or not this was rape, and frankly, there is no period in history where that answer would not have been clear.

BY the way, I do not think it is a troll, rather one of the countless wusses that we will say who are waking up to the fact that if you are a white male, you no longer have the default vote as to what is right and wrong. Even if Obama is a lot tamer than I wish he was, his election drives a point home: the day certain privileged people can do a passive aggressive smirk to justify screwing people (literally and figuratively) is OVER!

GOOD RIDDANCE!

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:59 AM

79. Heck, why go at one remove?

We're coming up on the holiday season, when most people drink a glass or two. Ask the guy how he would feel if he ran into someone who did exactly what he did, the way he did it. Would he just claim boys will be boys then? If he experiences exactly what his victims did, will he talk about "peer pressure" and "everyone does it" then?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:57 PM

69. Everyone, male & female, should be aware that alcohol is a central nervous system depressant KNOWN

to affect areas of the brain that are involved in critical analysis, assessment, and evaluation ... judgements like:

- Have I had enough to drink?
- Do I care about her?
- Do I want him/her touching me?
- Can I stop at petting?
- What chance is there that I will get an STD? pregnant?
- ....

to name just a few of the kinds of judgements/decisions people make more or less consciously, all of which are affected by alcohol.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:59 PM

70. Wow, just read that thread

Here's the thing. if one takes advantage of someone, anyone, they are doing something wrong.

I explain it like this to my kids. You see it in every movie and read it in every book. Good guys, superheros, hero's and heroines in every story use their power or advantage to help those who are need (ie passed out human.) Good guys and girls help those who are smaller or weaker than themselves. Bad guys, villains and criminals use their power to take advantage of or steal from those who are in need, or smaller and weaker than themselves. What that guy did was a crime as it stood on the books at the time and is a crime today. Taking advantage of another has always been and always will be viewed by society as wrong if not illegal. So I don't buy the opinion that it was acceptable at the time.

Really messed up stuff. Guy is definitely a rapist.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:30 PM

75. +1

Indeed, that is all that needs to be said, but I'm going to post to kick this.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 03:42 AM

78. That poster should at least try to give these women some healing by at least contacting them

even if anonymously with a letter and tell them what he did, take complete blame, tell them he's sorry and beg their forgiveness. I would imagine they know something happened to them and no telling what problems it caused them. It might help them to know what it was and that it was DONE TO THEM.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 10:10 AM

80. I hope Karma kicks him in the nads!

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