HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Any chance the drinking a...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:02 AM

Any chance the drinking age will get lowered to 18 any time soon?

With the recent victories on marijuana legalization, is there any chance any state might finally stand up to the feds and bring some normalcy to our alcohol laws? Or is that ten percent in federal highway funds still enough to keep them in line?

78 replies, 5311 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 78 replies Author Time Post
Reply Any chance the drinking age will get lowered to 18 any time soon? (Original post)
Daniel537 Nov 2012 OP
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #1
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #2
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #4
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #9
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #12
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #16
RomneyLies Nov 2012 #19
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #21
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #22
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #26
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #30
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #34
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #36
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #38
laundry_queen Nov 2012 #27
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #28
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #35
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #37
julian09 Nov 2012 #63
RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #74
JHB Nov 2012 #25
jberryhill Nov 2012 #3
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #5
WI_DEM Nov 2012 #6
loyalsister Nov 2012 #50
liberal N proud Nov 2012 #7
cherokeeprogressive Nov 2012 #8
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #10
cherokeeprogressive Nov 2012 #75
darkangel218 Nov 2012 #76
coldbeer Nov 2012 #11
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #13
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #14
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #56
LiberalFighter Nov 2012 #15
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #18
Mariana Nov 2012 #66
white_wolf Nov 2012 #17
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #20
godai Nov 2012 #23
Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #55
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #24
HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #32
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #46
subterranean Nov 2012 #57
HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #59
Berserker Nov 2012 #29
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #31
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #47
MineralMan Nov 2012 #33
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #39
pinboy3niner Nov 2012 #40
Politicalboi Nov 2012 #41
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #43
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #42
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #44
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #45
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #48
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #49
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #65
groundloop Nov 2012 #54
white_wolf Nov 2012 #58
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #64
ToxMarz Nov 2012 #51
newfie11 Nov 2012 #52
subterranean Nov 2012 #60
newfie11 Nov 2012 #67
union_maid Nov 2012 #53
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2012 #61
Capt. Obvious Nov 2012 #62
LanternWaste Nov 2012 #68
Mariana Nov 2012 #69
Jersey Devil Nov 2012 #70
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #71
jmowreader Nov 2012 #72
kiva Nov 2012 #73
Deep13 Nov 2012 #77
brewens Nov 2012 #78

Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:03 AM

1. Highly doubtful.

 

States like the federal highway funds and lowering the drinking age means they lose every penny they get in federal highway funds.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:05 AM

2. Aren't they supposed to lose only 10% of their highway funds?

That's the answer i got by doing a quick search on the 1984 law.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:10 AM

4. You're right

 

Still, 10% is a vast sum of money for any individual state budget to be forced to pick up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:15 AM

9. True enough.

Sad. The "immoral majority" will fight it tooth and nail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:16 AM

12. There is some good data to support keeping the age at 21.

 

From a strictly statistical standpoint, raising the drinking age had a dramatic effect on lowering the number of accidents that involved drinking and driving.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:24 AM

16. Yeah, but i'm just not comfortable giving away some freedoms for some alleged security.

If we teach our children that they are expected to behave and be treated as adults when they reach a certain age, in this country 18, we should be able to give them all the freedoms and responsibilities that come with that, including deciding what to put in their bodies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:28 AM

19. I think there are several stages to evolve from childhood into adulthood

 

This really begins in the tweens, ages eleven and twelve. Children begin getting more responsibilities at those ages.

Throughout the teenage years they evolve closer to adulthood.

At age 18, they begin receiving full adulthood status with it completing at age 21.

It's actually very reasonable.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:32 AM

21. The majority of countries in the world have a lower drinking age than we do

I don't see us being very reasonable at all. If 18 year olds are "evolved" enough to use tobacco at 18, why not alcohol? If they can die in a foreign country to defend us, who are we to say, "nope, can't put that in your mouth"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:33 AM

22. A young person's brain hasn't fully developed by the time they are 18

Their judgment making skills are not that great. They can't fully comprehend the consequences of their actions. I think if studies show that there are less automobile deaths because of the age limit then I think it should stay 21. Driving or even just riding in a car is one of the most dangerous things we do on a daily basis. We don't really think about it but when you get in a car there is a chance you won't be coming home that day. We need to keep automobile deaths down as much as possible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:38 AM

26. And yet their brain is fully developed to voluntarily join the military at 18 and risk death?

To smoke tobacco at 18 and risk cancer? To have sex at 18 and risk pregnancy or STDs? Yes, i know driving is dangerous, which is why drunk driving is and should remain illegal. But why is that justification enough to prohibit adults 18-21 from not being able to decide what to do with their bodies? Its really a totalitarian way of thinking, especially when we are in the minority on this issue compared with the rest of the world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:43 AM

30. you can call it whatever you want

That is my opinion. You say that driving drunk should remain illegal. Well, you lower the age limit you increase automobile deaths. You also increase the number of young people's lives who are ruined because they kill someone because they didn't comprehend the consequences of getting into a car drunk.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:46 AM

34. So why not ban alcohol altogether if autmobile deaths is your main concern?

Why pick and choose which deaths we will permit and which we won't? Your logic is nonsensical and thankfully most of the world disagrees with you. I drunk alcohol overseas when i was under 21 and i knew to have the good sense of not driving afterwards, so please don't smear all young people as being idiots. I love how you didn't even bother to address a single one of the points i made. Didn't expect it any other way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #34)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:48 AM

36. I have a right to my opinion

I don't care what you think of it or me. Going on ignore. Good bye.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:49 AM

38. Lol, some people just can't handle facts. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:39 AM

27. Then they shouldn't be able to decide

to go fight a war on false pretenses until they are 21. Let's be fair here - if they can't fully comprehend the consequences of their actions at 18, then why the hell are they carrying automatic weapons in a foreign country at 18? Maybe if their judgment skills aren't that great at 18, maybe they shouldn't be voting? Right? Let's not cherry pick the rights we think 18 year olds should have because it suits us.

I live in Canada, in a province where the drinking and gambling age is 18 - as it should be. If they were to raise those ages I'd argue they should raise the ages for driving, voting and signing up for the military. Some consistency is required here, IMO. They're either too young for all those things or not to young for all those things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to laundry_queen (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:41 AM

28. +1

Too many people want to have it both ways on this issue. You can have this right, but not this one. Ridiculous.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to laundry_queen (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:47 AM

35. Some states have increased restrictions on driving for 16 and 17 yr olds

and guess what? It makes it safer for everybody on the road. You can call me old fashioned or authoritarian or whatever you want. On this one I have to side with safety.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #35)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:48 AM

37. Indeed, i will call you all those things.

If safety was really your concern, you would call for the complete banning of alcohol. But good "old fashioned" hypocrisy doesn't permit you to do that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:41 PM

63. I remember when they tried it in 70's, couldn't hold it

 

fights were happening in places that never had them. ACCIDENTS were also a big factor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:28 PM

74. We should lower the drinking age and raise the age at which you can join the military

 


If we really wanted to protect our children, we would make sure anyone who joins the military has fully developed reasoning abilities and is doing it with full knowledge of what they are doing, not allow military recruiters to prey on vulnerable and desperate 18 year olds just getting out of high school.

War is much more dangerous than beer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:35 AM

25. That could be changed too, but that's a fight at the Federal level...

...and since that mean several political fights at several levels of government, the "anytime soon" part ain't happening.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:10 AM

3. Stay thirsty, my friend

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:11 AM

5. Change on this issue is always...3 years away.



PB

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:12 AM

6. If anything it would be lowered to 19 (which is still highly doubtful)

They will resist 18 because many 18 year olds are still in high school.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WI_DEM (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:22 PM

50. Exactly

And that's a very good reason. Keeping some distance between people who have legal access and younger adolescents prevents or at least reduces the opportunities for them to acquire a drug that has extremely negative effects on adolescent development.
"They get it already" is not the best argument. Why give them another source?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:13 AM

7. Ha!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:13 AM

8. Hope not. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:15 AM

10. Why not? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:13 PM

75. I know this is TOTALLY hypocritical but I got my first car at 16 and by 18 I was no stranger to

alcohol. By the Grace of God or just dumb luck (you make the call) I didn't kill myself, any of my friends, or God forbid a pedestrian or someone in another car.

I had a hot rod '67 Mustang and was none too responsible with it to say the least. I can still remember driving home from the beach late at night going 110 with one eye closed because with both eyes open I was seeing double.

There is a difference in teenagers today and teenagers back then... I grew up OUTSIDE, either playing Baseball, Football, Frisbee, Hide and Seek, Kick the Can, or racing my bicycle around self-made motocross tracks. My now 21 year old daughter grew up INSIDE, a child of video games and text messages. This summer when I bought her first car I STILL wasn't comfortable that she could guide a car down the freeway without panicking if an 18 wheeler was in the lane next to her... and you know what? I was right.

I do not think an 18 year old who's probably not even ridden a BIKE should have the right to a car AND alcohol because I don't think they're up to the task. You might say I'm not giving youngsters their due but back in the DAY, people in their early twenties travelled across the plains in Connestoga Wagons, fed themselves, gave birth, built homes with their own hands, and defended their land. With each generation, those capabilities get farther and farther away. Today, an 18 year old can't be counted on to be able to accomplish the same tasks of 18 year olds of even a generation ago.

I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel. Yeah, I know, we "send 18 year olds to war", but as far as I'm concerned, those 18 year olds should only able to drink on miliary reservations where their behavior can be controlled.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:17 PM

76. +1 nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:15 AM

11. Back about 1996 there was this club

at a Air Force base in Louisiana. It was always packed because of
the service men and women who were under 21. It was a last holdout
in the country. The gov't forced them to raise the drinking age
to 21. This club closed almost immediately. The poor ol soldiers
21 and above had to drink off base and could not afford it.

Another thing, in high school, if age 18 was allowed drinking, there would be an instant
pipeline for underage drinking'

I could drink legally at 18, was drafted, but could not vote!

go figure

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:16 AM

13. The legal age for marijuana is 21.

Back in the early 1970's NJ raised the age to 21. My former husband had a client who owned a towing service. He was quite emphatic in his support of the age going up. His reason? He had seen too many teenagers killed in DUI accidents. Within 6 months the number of teenage deaths due to drunk driving had dropped significantly. You have to remember that the 21 doesn't mean only those 21 and above will get alcohol, fake IDs etc. make it possible for some as young as 18/19 to buy it. If you lower the age to 18, 16-year-olds will buy it... here in FL you can get a driver's license at 16.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:20 AM

14. Fake IDs already exist.

Don't see why lowering it would change that. My point is a personal freedom choice. I too think if weed is going to be legal the legal age should be 18, besides kids can already get that in High School right now anyway. If you can decide your country's future at 18 by voting, and putting your life on the line at 18 in the military, why not legally be able to drink some beer or rum? We're the ones who are backwards on this issue when you compare us to the rest of the industrialized world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:04 PM

56. Yes, fake IDs have existed since the first ID ever required....

However, it is much more difficult for a 16-year-old to pass for 21 than 18.

As to comparisons to the rest of the world....there is no other country on the planet in which so many 16 to 18 year old children drive and frequently have their own cars. And yes, I said children with no disrespect intended.

They should not have lowered the voting age, they should have raised the age for military service. Know why they didn't do that? Because by 21 most people have realized their own mortality.... They were drafting 18-year-old boys to risk life and limb in Vietnam...so they gave them the right to vote. A rather cynical sop as until recently 18-year-olds rarely bothered to vote. Now, an all volunteer military would be hard pressed to recruit if the age for service was 21.

I don't like the idea of 18-year-olds as canon fodder and I certainly don't want to give them another means with which to kill or cripple themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:23 AM

15. Go to a state where it is legal for 18 year olds to drink.

There is at least one. But not highly publicized and requires the parent or guardian to be present. And I'm not telling you where.

As to the question. Not likely in the foreseeable future. I don't have a problem with 18 year olds drinking if done responsibly. But, the line is too fine when it involves high school students that turn 18 in high school. The circle of kids at this age group also includes those in college with friends that are underage visiting. There is too much peer pressure. Even having it at 19 wouldn't help. Even if colleges banned drinking for the students it would only apply on campus. And it is difficult to supervise the activities of thousands of students to make sure they wouldn't violate the rules by going off campus to drink and then returning to their dorm later in the night/morning drunk.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:27 AM

18. But they already use other mind-altering drugs right now, like marijuana, in High Schools

There's plenty of peer pressure to use that right now as well. So i don't really see why alcohol would have this huge devastating impact on kids that some people here are predicting. Besides, being liquid, its not like people are going to go around openly selling bottles of beer at the school cafeteria. By the way, a quick Wikipedia search shows you what states under-21s can drink with their parents, its not exactly a state secret. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:20 PM

66. Most states allow underage drinking

with a parent or guardian present, at least in some places and at some times. They don't even have to be 18 - minors are permitted to drink under certain circumstances in many states.

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:25 AM

17. I'm 23 and I think the drinking age is bad policy.

I'm sorry, but if you are old enough to be charged as an adult for crimes, join the army, and vote, then you should be allowed to drink. Either you should be considered an adult with all the rights and responsibilities or you aren't. This middle ground of giving the responsibility without rights is hypocritical.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to white_wolf (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:28 AM

20. +1

Look at all these countries with drinking ages lower than ours. I don't see them collapsing into chaos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:33 AM

23. 18-19 in Canada but unlikely to occur here. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to godai (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:51 PM

55. Used to be 18 in Ontario, but later raised to 19

I don't think anyone had a problem with 19. I think 18 is too young, personally.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:44 AM

32. Learn something everyday...I thought it allowed any underage person to drink with parental consent

I also thought Wisconsin law also allows underage drinking without parental consent if it was associated with religious rituals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #32)


Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:18 PM

57. 25 states allow underage drinking for religious purposes

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to subterranean (Reply #57)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:29 PM

59. I wrote that is what I had thought...as it says in the table you link to

WI does allow underage alcohol consumption for religious purpose with guardian or parental consent.

I'm fine with that and fine with being corrected as to the laws of the state in which I live.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:42 AM

29. IF

 

You have an active duty card in your pocket you should be able to belly up to any bar in any state in this country.
When I was 18, I was on active duty I could die for this country but I could not buy a fucking beer. If you don't have one then wait until you are 21 there is good reason for that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Berserker (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:44 AM

31. And what exactly is that good reason?

I don't like the idea of some one having more rights just because they are in the military.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Berserker (Reply #29)


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:46 AM

33. Almost certainly not.

There simply isn't any momentum in that direction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:50 AM

39. True, and that's unfortunate.

This country is still backwards in many different ways.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:59 AM

40. More than half the states did that during the Vietnam War

For the obvious reasons at that time. Google VN War and drinking age for the history on the lowering and re-raising of the drinking age.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:59 AM

41. They should raise it to 25

If more kids finished college before they start drinking, they would have a better chance. But if they did raise the drinking age, they should also make it so if your in the military, you cannot go to war zones till the age of 25. You can join at 18, but it's all training, or career orientated.

Flame away. LOL! I hate booze, so it's easy for me to say this. But I am serious. Why ruin young lives with it. At least Marijuana has medical purposes so that should be given at ANY age.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Politicalboi (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:06 PM

43. Why should anyone be able to legislate somebody elses life?

If someone wants to skip out on college to go partying and drinking that's their personal choice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:01 PM

42. I have an 18 year old. I'm fine with the drinking age at 21.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:07 PM

44. Good for you.

But why does the fact that you, or anybody else for that matter, have an 18 year old be used as a reason to limit the rights of adults 18-21?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:12 PM

45. I know 18 year olds. Two of my son's former classmates have already

been injured in drunk-driving related accidents. One kid drowned while swimming drunk at 17. I remember what I was like at 18, too. Yeah, 21 is fine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:14 PM

48. I'm not proposing lowering it to 17, so that kid would have died anyway.

Same thing with driving drunk. Its illegal, but some people still do it. People will die regardless because of alcohol, but why is that an excuse to limit the rights of willing adults? Not all of us were stupid when we were under 21, so why should we punish everybody because some will make mistakes?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:21 PM

49. Nobody's lives will improve. Society won't improve.

There's just no good reason to lower it and give more kids a chance to kill themselves or others with poor judgment, or become addicted and change their still-developing brains.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:45 PM

65. Its about individual choice, not society's choice. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:48 PM

54. Daniel, once you're older and have seen the tragedy teenage drinking causes....

you might change your mind. Honestly, I feel sorry for you if being able to legally get plastered is such a big deal in your life.

I grew up when the drinking age was 18, and yes, I drank. I did a lot of really really stupid stuff that should have, at a minimum, landed my ass in jail. I saw friends become addicted to alcohol and drop out of college. I am in full agreement with those who state that most young people don't fully mature by the time they're 18, and IMO it seems that most kids are so spoiled these days that it takes them even longer to figure things out and grow up.

And I don't for an instant buy into your argument that kids who drink are only affecting themselves. I've seen too many kids in the news who were killed (and took others with them) in auto accidents involving alcohol.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to groundloop (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:19 PM

58. I'm sorry, but once again either you are an adult or you aren't.

If you don't want 18 year old's drinking, then fine, but don't you dare bring one into a court room and charge him as an adult. If he isn't old enough to hold his liquor then he isn't old enough to be tried as an adult. Besides many countries let teenagers drink, before they learn to drive so it isn't seen as cool and they have less alcohol problems than the U.S.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to groundloop (Reply #54)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:44 PM

64. Emotions, that's all these arguments are rooted in.

What about crashes involving people over 21? Do those not count? So how about banning alcohol for everybody? And no, this is not the most important issue for me in the least bit, but i'm surprised at the level of authoritarianism in this thread. Just because you acted like an ass when you were young doesn't mean we all did, so don't try that shit with me. Please stop projecting yourself on the rest of us and see that the rest of the industrialized world has a lower drinking age than we do and they aren't clamoring to get to where we are on this issue, thank goodness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:26 PM

51. There are really so many other things to worry about.

They raised the drinking age to 21 a few months before I turned 18, so for three years I was just behind the cut off. I survived! Most 18 - 21 year olds don't have that much trouble getting alcohol (and pot) if they want it. And most are probably better off not drinking as much as they would if it was freely available to them, especially in bars and clubs. They have many years to enjoy drinking if they so choose. Where is the rule that all things, voting, military service, tobacco, alcohol, etc. must all coincide with the same age restrictions. Of these the only one that is demonstrated to have tragic consequences to OTHERS lives is alcohol use by these younger citizens.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:28 PM

52. I vaguely remember back in the 60's

There as a push to lower the drinking age to 18. The reason was 18 year olds were old enough to draft to a war but not by alcohol .
I was under the impression that passed. What changed or is my memory failing( not unusual)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to newfie11 (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:31 PM

60. Your memory does not fail you (at least this time).

Many states did in fact lower the drinking age to 18 or 19 during the 1970s. But they raised it back up to 21 in the 1980s, partly due to passage of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act in 1984.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to subterranean (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:23 PM

67. Ah thank you nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:32 PM

53. Would be very surprised

It used to be 18 in New York. It seemed only fair, but the stats do show that it makes a difference. It also probably increases the age at which a lot of under age drinking is possible. When it ws 18 my friends and I could get into bars by the time we were around 14. And we did. Almost 50 years later that does seem rather young.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:32 PM

61. No

There are more pressing issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:33 PM

62. no

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:30 PM

68. isn't any age proffered going to be just as arbitrary?

A restriction on drinking due to age may be arbitrary, however isn't any age proffered going to be just as arbitrary?

We reduce the drinking age to 18, which is all well and good, until someone uses your precise argument to have it lowered to 17, then 16, then 15. 12. Nine... etc. I imagine most people do in fact, want an arbitrary age limit imposed on drinking liquor, the only differences between the standards are merely in degrees, and one may have a rather difficult time arguing the ethical difference in trumpeting the fairness of an age limit of 18, whilst opposed to his neighbor, who turns 18 tomorrow is, for one reason or another denied that same.

"some normalcy to our alcohol laws.."
Specifically who determines normalcy, and upon what objective standard is that measured on?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:31 PM

69. I wouldn't expect it any time soon.

Of course, alcohol is much more dangerous than marijuana. It can reasonably be argued that it should be more highly restricted than weed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:32 PM

70. I hope not

I know the argument about how if you are old enough to die for your country you should be old enough to drink, but I have seen first hand what happens with an 18 year old drinking age, which we had here in NJ for a few years due to those same arguments being made during the war in Viet Nam.

It is not so much the 18 year olds themselves that was the problem. It was that the 18 year olds were buying package goods for the 15 year olds and they would get drunk in public parks, behind movie theaters, etc. I was a local prosecutor during that time and saw many a case of 18-20 year olds being brought up on buying alcohol for younger teens. It's not a pretty (or healthy) sight to see kids in their mid teens passed out on the grass at local playgrounds or crashing their bicycles into cars.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:30 PM

71. Doubt it. A more useful effort would be to get legislation passed that allows parents to

buy a state issued license to have their children served alcohol, in the parent's presence, in eating places that sell alcohol. The license would also allow parents to serve children alcohol at home. The biggest motivator for under-aged drinking is the mystique that alcohol gains in the eyes of young children because they witness it being consumed, but it is forbidden to them. Allowing responsible parents to actively teach their children about the use, benefits and dangers of alcohol would go a long way toward reducing under-aged drinking and binge drinking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:49 PM

72. Not a chance

Even if there was absolutely no difference in accident and fatality rates between 18-year and 21-year old drinkers, it would remain illegal. Underage drinking and underage smoking tickets are huge moneymakers for cash-strapped municipalities. If drinking was legalized for 18 year olds, they'd have to make something else illegal or raise taxes to compensate.

There is a post upthread about other nations' drinking laws. There's no comparison: in the US our demonization of liquor makes kids want to get totally bombed. In France or Germany, alcohol is thought of as a food - not as some forbidden fruit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:07 PM

73. No, and I think that's wrong.

Most of the world is 18 or lower, so you'd think we could look that and get some ideas about how to best handle alcohol consumption.

The current push to infantilize young people is a pretty good guarantee that 18 year olds won't be seeing the inside of a bar (legally). When 18 year olds were allowed to drink in the past, there was a perception that they had the rights and responsibilities of adults...now, not really.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:17 PM

77. nope nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Daniel537 (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:27 PM

78. In high school our age was 19. I used to go across the state line to a mom and pop store where

the age was 21 to buy beer. We're right on the border. Lewiston, Id and Clarkston, Wa. Now who'd be dumb enough to try that? I would, and I got away with it almost every weekend for two years! It was a masterstroke. They didn't even look at me close. They got so they knew me and I'd go right back in the cooler and grab full cases, before it was common to have a walk-in for customers.

Other guys were coming from Clarkston to Lewiston because it was 19, using fake ID's and everything. I know of no one else that played it the way I did. I kept my mouth shut about it though. Only a couple buddies knew where I went and I always went by myself. I was a big kid and was cool about it. I didn't have a beard or anything like that though.

We drank all the time when I was a kid in the 70's. They make it pretty tough these days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread