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Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:56 AM

Progressives Increasingly Confident That Obama Won’t Cave On Fiscal Cliff Deal

Progressives Increasingly Confident That Obama Won’t Cave On Fiscal Cliff Deal

Benjy Sarlin

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“I think most people are buoyed by the fact the president seems intent on sticking with his demand that taxes go up on the top 2 percent even if it means going over the cliff,” Bob Borosage, president of the Institute for America’s Future, told TPM. “He’s been stronger than I might have anticipated.”

Meanwhile, Democrats in Congress haven’t gone wobbly either.

Liberals were surprised to find themselves cheering on Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) this week as he argued before the Center for American Progress that Democrats should resist benefit cuts to Medicare and Medicaid and keep Social Security out of the negotiations entirely. Durbin, the majority whip, is a leading Democratic supporter of the Simpson-Bowles debt commission, which liberal groups denounced as a nightmare solution to the long-term deficit, so his words carry special weight.

“It’s a weird thing that Democratic leaders like Dick Durbin and Chris Van Hollen appear to be embracing the ideas that progressives are pushing,” Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, told TPM. “I read Dick Durbin’s speech and it’s actually beautiful.”

Borosage also took note of Durbin’s rhetoric, calling him a “stalking horse for the president” that could signal good news.

Labor and progressive leaders came away from a private meeting with White House officials Tuesday encouraged as well, according to an attendee who spoke with the Washington Post’s Greg Sargent. In particular, hopes are rising that the president is willing to go over the so-called fiscal cliff on Jan. 1 in order to force Republicans to pass a bill that preserves the Bush tax cuts for the bottom 98 percent of income earners. Combine that with loud grumbling among some Republicans about the right’s resistance to tax increases and the outlook is looking even better on the revenue side.

- more -

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/liberals-back-away-from-ledge-as-democrats-approach-fiscal-cliff.php

Van Hollen takes Medicare age increase and Social Security off the table
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021891741

Sanders Applauds White House for Taking Social Security Off the Table in Deficit Talks
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014319000

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Reply Progressives Increasingly Confident That Obama Won’t Cave On Fiscal Cliff Deal (Original post)
ProSense Nov 2012 OP
ProSense Nov 2012 #1
bigtree Nov 2012 #2
ProSense Nov 2012 #4
99Forever Nov 2012 #3
ProSense Nov 2012 #5
99Forever Nov 2012 #6
ProSense Nov 2012 #7
99Forever Nov 2012 #9
ProSense Nov 2012 #8
99Forever Nov 2012 #11
longship Nov 2012 #10
forestpath Nov 2012 #12
woo me with science Nov 2012 #13
zipplewrath Nov 2012 #15
ProSense Nov 2012 #17
MadHound Nov 2012 #14
denverbill Nov 2012 #16
ProSense Nov 2012 #19
ProSense Nov 2012 #18
Hutzpa Nov 2012 #20

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:05 AM

1. Wait,

are people going to be disappointed if President Obama stands his ground?

Isn't this good news? I mean, the WSJ is shilling for Republicans, and that seems to excite some folks.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:12 AM

2. good news

. . . certainly conflicts with most of the reporting which outlines billions in cuts planned in some 'deal' or the other to Medicare and SS.

It's notable that we've yet to hear ANY of those kinds of concessions from the president or the WH -- anytime, ever.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:19 AM

4. The MSM discovered

a new trick, creating an alternate reality. They simply make claims and attributions that benefit the GOP, and then repeat them often. They even go so far as to attribute it to different Dems.

They did it with Mitt, and they're trying to do it with the President's appointments and tax negotiations.

The OP is a perfect example of pushing back. Unspin the bullshit. I mean, how is it that these groups walked away with a completely different take than the WSJ is reporting?

“It’s a weird thing that Democratic leaders like Dick Durbin and Chris Van Hollen appear to be embracing the ideas that progressives are pushing,” Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, told TPM. “I read Dick Durbin’s speech and it’s actually beautiful.”

That's not what the WSJ is reporting.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:18 AM

3. Who has ever said..

... they "going to be disappointed if President Obama stands his ground?"

Strawman much?

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:21 AM

5. Desperate much?

"Who has ever said..... they 'going to be disappointed if President Obama stands his ground?'"

It was a question: are people going to be disappointed if President Obama stands his ground?

A rhetorical and sarcastic question.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:33 AM

6. So no one has said it.

Basically, the very definition of a strawman argument.

And you call me desperate?

Good grief, what planet are you on?

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:38 AM

7. You're too brilliant for words.

Rhetorical and sarcastic, look them up.

"Good grief, what planet are you on?"

One where words have meaning, and there are a lot of dictionaries.

You?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:58 AM

9. So you've got nothing...

.. again.

At least you are consistent.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:41 AM

8. Oh, and while you're

wasting time (everyone's) in this thread, do you have a comment on the OP's point?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:00 AM

11. The "point" of ...

... a strawman argument?

Hmmm... okay.


Nice beatdown of an imaginary opponent you did there.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:58 AM

10. Good news for all of us.

Make it be correct.

Call Congress. Call the White House.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:01 AM

12. Plouffe must not have gotten the memo!

 

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:09 AM

13. How will we be helped?

We are being propagandized to be grateful if we are spared one more blow, in the context of a larger austerity deal that never should have been entertained in the first place. How will we be helped?

All the rhetoric is being set up to praise the President and be satisfied with our lot if he merely *refrains* from taking this or that additional bludgeon to the poor and middle classes.

This is how far we have been suckered to the right. We drown in a sea of platitudes about austerity, validation of Republican framing and lies, from neoDemocrats, as though we should be grateful and consider it a great victory if we can just elicit from our Democratic President a promise not to ATTACK us in one way or another. We are suckered to welcome and celebrate a new round of austerity, as long as we get a promise that *certain* attacks on the poor and elderly may not be included.

We are urged to be grateful for the withholding of a specific blow, but convinced that the larger beating is inevitable.

What we are owed is a complete change in rhetoric and in direction. We are owed passionate, public acknowledgement of the truth about how we have been looted and robbed and impoverished for 30 years, with all of our wealth going to a few greedy pigs at the top. We are owed a sweeping, passionate, and sustained correction of the economic LIES that we have been hearing for 30 years. And we are owed a sustained, serious campaign of action to REVERSE the structural changes of the past 30 years and the damage that has been perpetrated on millions of Americans.

How will we be helped?

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:28 AM

15. Bingo

Hooray, he didn't drift as far right as he could have!!!!!!

Let's have a party!!!!!

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:07 PM

17. "All the rhetoric is being set up to praise the President"

"All the rhetoric is being set up to praise the President if he merely *refrains* from taking this or that additional bludgeon to the poor and middle classes."

OMG, praising the President? That's the most awful thing imaginable.

"How will we be helped? "

Well, by not praising him. That's the best thing that could happen, right?

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:23 AM

14. What, was a poll taken or something?

 

Frankly I think a lot of liberals are in a wait and see mode. They've seen Obama cave badly in the past, and are waiting to see if he will do so again. He'd better not, because there might just be holy hell to pay.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:52 AM

16. Not just cave. More like push.

One day I read that Obama is content to go over the cliff, the next I read he's flexible on the highest rates and is open to gutting the safety net. My gut feeling is that it probably didn't matter who won the election, we are going to get the Romney plan.

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Response to denverbill (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:10 PM

19. "My gut feeling is that it probably didn't matter who won the election

"My gut feeling is that it probably didn't matter who won the election, we are going to get the Romney plan."

You need to have your "gut" checked. Something's not right.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:08 PM

18. "Frankly I think a lot of liberals are in a wait and see mode."

Seems the OP states that a lot of progressives are still pushing even though they're encouraged. Seems the smartest thing to do.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:36 PM

20. I think we can determine Obama's next four years

by who he chooses as cabinet members. Another insight for me will be him standing behind the nomination of Susan Rice as SOS. These imo will determine how Obama is going to govern during his second term. I believe he is going to surprise a lot of people by governing from the progressive left.





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