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Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:21 PM

DeFazio goes on MSNBC, says 'Fuck the fiscal cliff!' Grand Bargain Express wobbles, heads explode!


Rep. Peter Defazio, D-Ore., says Congress should wait until after the new year to deal with the severe cuts and tax increases that will automatically take effect. Defazio insists says it’s a lame duck session and the most radical members of the Tea Party are still here, so it’s better to wait until the next Congress is in office.

No YouTube link yet, just hit the MSNBC site HERE (VIDEO)

WELL-WORTH THE FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME TO WATCH!

From the transcript:

Q: You're one of the folks who have said, correct me if i'm wrong, that republicans won't accept tax hikes for wealthy and we might as well go off the fiscal cliff and take it up after January 1st. Is that an accurate representation of your position? And if so, why?

DeFazio: Sure. Well, first, off the 'cliff' is an unbelievable exaggeration. There's no cliff. In fact, the only tax rate that changes on January 1st is we do away with the Social Security/FICA holiday. The other tax rates we would have ample time to deal with, and we would be then bargaining from a position of strength. The republicans would be free from their pledge to Grover Norquist about not raising taxes. And we would be talking about who is going to get some tax relief -- middle-class families, you know, people with children, and other targeted cuts, and the Republicans could say, "Gee, i wanted to give the rich a tax break but we just couldn't get there. but, hey, we helped ow 98% of the people in America." I think we'd be bargaining from strength. I'm very worried that we're getting back to where we were two years ago where the President was put in a box or a year ago when the President got put in a box over the republicans threatening to default on our debt. We need to bargain from a stronger position and going over this bump in the road would give us that.


MUCH more at the link!

It's a refreshing change to see a Democratic politician rejecting the Shock Doctrine bullshit and attempting to maneuver the Democratic Party into a position of strength.

We WON the Election. Howsabout we start acting like it?



PB

104 replies, 13706 views

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Reply DeFazio goes on MSNBC, says 'Fuck the fiscal cliff!' Grand Bargain Express wobbles, heads explode! (Original post)
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 OP
The Magistrate Nov 2012 #1
xchrom Nov 2012 #2
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #5
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #23
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #30
Volaris Nov 2012 #43
decayincl Nov 2012 #69
Volaris Nov 2012 #70
Texin Nov 2012 #81
freshwest Nov 2012 #29
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #38
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #3
freshwest Nov 2012 #31
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #45
freshwest Nov 2012 #46
mozan Nov 2012 #72
classof56 Nov 2012 #78
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #104
msongs Nov 2012 #4
HughBeaumont Nov 2012 #6
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #37
nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #7
butterfly77 Nov 2012 #8
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #17
xtraxritical Nov 2012 #32
butterfly77 Nov 2012 #48
ProSense Nov 2012 #54
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #55
ProSense Nov 2012 #56
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #57
ProSense Nov 2012 #58
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #84
ProSense Nov 2012 #93
bvar22 Nov 2012 #85
ProSense Nov 2012 #91
bvar22 Nov 2012 #94
ProSense Nov 2012 #95
bvar22 Nov 2012 #96
ProSense Nov 2012 #97
ProSense Nov 2012 #98
bvar22 Nov 2012 #99
ProSense Nov 2012 #100
bvar22 Nov 2012 #101
ProSense Nov 2012 #102
gollygee Nov 2012 #9
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #26
Panasonic Nov 2012 #10
randome Nov 2012 #11
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #27
n2doc Nov 2012 #50
forestpath Nov 2012 #12
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #76
CanonRay Nov 2012 #13
byeya Nov 2012 #14
libdem4life Nov 2012 #15
AlbertCat Nov 2012 #49
dballance Nov 2012 #16
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #28
dballance Nov 2012 #80
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #83
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #79
bvar22 Nov 2012 #86
deutsey Nov 2012 #18
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #19
redqueen Nov 2012 #20
Squinch Nov 2012 #21
Gregorian Nov 2012 #22
Bette Noir Nov 2012 #24
fredamae Nov 2012 #52
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2012 #25
zwyziec Nov 2012 #33
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #34
frylock Nov 2012 #40
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #41
Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #44
warrprayer Nov 2012 #35
Scurrilous Nov 2012 #36
Historic NY Nov 2012 #39
PD Turk Nov 2012 #42
zeemike Nov 2012 #47
quinnox Nov 2012 #51
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2012 #53
Atticus Nov 2012 #59
ibegurpard Nov 2012 #60
Poll_Blind Nov 2012 #62
dhpgetsit Nov 2012 #61
Coyotl Nov 2012 #67
SDjack Nov 2012 #63
SomeGuyInEagan Nov 2012 #92
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #64
lonestarnot Nov 2012 #65
Coyotl Nov 2012 #66
humbled_opinion Nov 2012 #68
Faryn Balyncd Nov 2012 #71
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #73
Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #74
whathehell Nov 2012 #75
pipewrench Nov 2012 #77
LineReply .
libodem Nov 2012 #82
still_one Nov 2012 #87
WillyT Nov 2012 #88
midnight Nov 2012 #89
chloes1 Nov 2012 #90
libodem Nov 2012 #103

Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:23 PM

1. He is Absolutely Right, Sir

"You gotta pay to see 'em...."

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:24 PM

2. +1

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:33 PM

5. +1

And his fears of a replay of the disastrous "bargaining" (aka hostage taking) that occurred two years ago are incredibly valid, IMO.

I did not vote for Obama just to get a repeat of that bullshit before he's even been sworn into a second term.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:22 PM

23. Is it fair to say that this will be a good test to see how Pres Obama will act in the coming

four years?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:38 PM

30. To be fair to the President, I think the answer is "Yes...and no."

This is an end-game that started two+ years ago. What happens before January 1st of next year is kind of like a story arc wrapping up on a TV show. A season-ender.

The new congress is the new congress and while it's not all that different, it is different.

The Republicans have gotten him back in the desperation box just like two years ago. Once he's out of that, he can take it different ways.

If he chooses.

If he railroads this though, and it's a shitty a "deal" as it appears on every level, then he could juke around, politically, all he wants but it won't matter: This deal is going to cast a very long shadow if it's made and this is the least favorable time in which to negotiate it.

So yes...and no.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:02 PM

43. I don't know that Congress (ESPECIALLY a Dem. controlled Senate) will LET him cut a bad deal...

If Reid is talking about changing the structure of the filibuster rules publically, it means he knows he has (or is damn close to having) the votes to actually do so. Once that's done, the DemSenateCaucus can write whatever bill they want to, and the House GOPBagers will have to vote NO on TAX CUTS.
I would bet that the Dems are mostly ok with a a Grand Bargin, but NOT until after the first of the year.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:27 PM

69. filibuster

And, one Senator can use the current filibuster rule to stop legislation from moving forward. I believe we will be stepping off the fiscal curb in January.

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Response to decayincl (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:01 AM

70. Agreed, and that's not really a thing I'm afraid of...you?

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Response to decayincl (Reply #69)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:09 PM

81. Agreed. Anything positive will/would be blocked in the Senate.

I think Obama and Dems are maneuvering and campaigning to draw the rethugs out from now until January 3rd. I don't think they have any reasonable expectation that the rethugs are going to do anything different than they have for the past 4 years. As De Fazio said, the Dems will be better positioned - and hopefully with some filibuster reforms in place - in January to respond the so-called fiscal cliff we're about to plunge off. The rethugs have used this as a scare tactic with their constitutents and manipulated Obama in the past, and now he's turning the tables on them. During this period, the people will see that they're committed to tax fairness and rethugs are doing nothing but digging in the heels for the Blankfeins and Daddy Warbucks of the world. Let's have sundown on this congress and start new in January.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:35 PM

29. +1 and pay to see them is right... with canvassing, donations, and showing up to vote.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:55 PM

38. +1000 nt

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:25 PM

3. Yeah, he's one of the few real ones.

 

Not a bought off whore, not a corporate toadie. Wish we had 200 more of him.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:39 PM

31. All we gotta do is show up between presidential elections and talk to people.

Proof of that strategy is the landslide of November 6th, 2012.

Definitely doable.


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Response to freshwest (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:39 PM

45. Easier said than done.

 

Considering gerrymandering, the President not being on the ballot and the Democrats never doing what the people voted for them to do.

The President needs to keep the ground game intact and endlessly repeat that voting for Democratic candidates is the same as voting for him one more time. Many people only came out to vote for him and we need to get those voters back out. If we can, maybe there's a chance.

But even with that, the chances of getting real deal Democrats like DeFazio elected is still slim.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #45)


Response to MrSlayer (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:58 AM

72. he is my local guy

It's nice to know I voted for a real guy. lives about a mile from me.

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Response to mozan (Reply #72)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:53 AM

78. Lucky you! Wish I could vote for DeFazio.

Unfortunately, I'm stuck with Rep. Greg Walden (R), but my money if not my vote went to Pete. One of the greats!

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Response to mozan (Reply #72)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:52 PM

104. My rep is good too.

 

Bob Brady (PA-1)

He's not a firebrand but he always votes the right way.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:33 PM

4. violates the principle that we won so have to give repubs their fair share nt

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:35 PM

6. Maybe we should just let him start from scratch . . .

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:53 PM

37. LOL! I'd forgotten about that one! He's definitely a SCRAPPER!





PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:37 PM

7. Correct, but I don't expect people in DC

To tae his advise. They want austerity, and to crash the safety net.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:39 PM

8. One person can change a room..

Why isn't Defazio in the room during negotiations?

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Response to butterfly77 (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:01 PM

17. Because the President keeps DeFazio and Democrats like him as FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE.

That's why. I'm not even going to try to pretty it up.

Watch this snippet from Big Ed's show just a few nights ago to understand the mentality of the President, his Senior Advisor (Plouffe) and now Dick Durbin:


They are making the hard play for this shitty deal, kowtowing to Republican/Tea Party hostage takers. Durbin's participation (the Senate Democratic Whip) is the tip-off the Administration wants this to be a done deal as quickly as humanly possible.

Fuck that noise.

This is a "deal" that's going to affect you and I and all of America for the NEXT 10-20 years!

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:40 PM

32. You're very right it's smoke and mirrors. Keep your eye on Social Security.

 

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:25 PM

48. Add Shumer to that list..

You don't have to tell me I have written to the whitehouse and my congressmen and women since the election. I could tell which way the wind was blown'n as I watch the CONS start to dictate a couple of days after the election and if we don't speak up now,then forever hold your peace.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:19 PM

54. Defazio voted against the stimulus. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:32 PM

55. But you don't dare post anything more, lest others see through your deceit:

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:34 PM

56. What nonsense. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:37 PM

57. Damn, you read through that real quick-like! Or just fired off a non-descript quip to...

...hide the fact that you didn't.

Anyone who regularly reads DU knows which of the two it was.



PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:40 PM

58. Same crap, and this

is nonsense:

I particularly opposed the $300 billion in tax cuts added at the outset to capture Republican support and votes that didn’t materialize. Last year, we did $160 billion in tax cuts for the Bush “recovery plan”. We received a quarter of one percent boost in the economy for one quarter. Now we, our kids and grandkids, will pay that money back with interest to China over the next 30 years. I did not want to repeat that mistake with even bigger tax cuts paid for with borrowed money in a “Democratic Economic Recovery Plan”.

That had nothing to do with Republicans. They opposed those cuts. He's an anti-stimulus deficit hawk.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:31 PM

84. Republicans opposed tax cuts for the rich? LOL!



PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #84)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:03 PM

93. No silly, they

opposed tax cuts for the middle class.

<...>

President Obama’s tax cuts versus President Bush’s tax cuts

President Bush enacted his tax cuts in 2001 and 2003, and over their 10-year lifespan, they reduced tax revenues by around $2.4 trillion, with $474 billion of that coming in the first four years. The first-term impact of those tax cuts is equivalent to about $574 billion in today’s dollars, or about 1.1 percent of gross domestic product.

President Obama has also signed two major pieces of tax-cutting legislation into law. The first, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, included a variety of tax cuts that benefited nearly every single American household. ARRA contained the Making Work Pay tax credit that directly reduced a family’s income tax bill by up to $800, which, overall, reduced tax revenue by about $116 billion. It included expansions of the child, earned income, American Opportunity, and first-time homebuyer tax credits. ARRA patched up the alternative minimum tax, providing $70 billion in tax cuts, and cut a wide array of business taxes, together totaling another $60 billion.

<...>

First, President Obama’s tax cuts are much more targeted at the middle class. The Bush tax cuts were heavily skewed toward the wealthy with more than half of the entire benefit going only to the richest 20 percent. President Obama’s tax cuts, on the other hand, are distributed more evenly. Eighty-five percent of the benefits of the Making Work Pay tax credit, for example, went to the bottom 80 percent of households, and because the very wealthy don’t pay payroll taxes on all of their income, the payroll tax cut, too, benefits the middle class much more than the Bush tax cuts did.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/09/obama_bush_taxes.html


Food Stamps Reduced The Poverty Rate By Nearly 8 Percent In 2009, As GOP Tries To Gut The Program

By Travis Waldron

Congressional Republicans have targeted the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), better known as food stamps, for budget cuts, and have attempted to paint it as a program rife with fraud and abuse that is on an unsustainable path. While their argument ignores a host of facts, including that food stamp fraud is at an all-time low, it also ignores the economic benefits that the program brings to millions of low-income families.

According to a new study from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, food stamps substantially reduced the poverty rate in 2009, the last year data is available, the New York Times reports:

The food stamp program…reduced the poverty rate by nearly 8 percent in 2009, the most recent year included in the study, a significant impact for a social program whose effects often go unnoticed by policy makers.

The study, which examined nine years of data, tried to measure the program’s effects on people whose incomes remained below the poverty threshold. The program lifted the average poor person’s income up about six percent closer to the line over the length of the study, making poverty less severe. When the benefits were included in the income of families with children, the result was that children below the threshold moved about 11 percent closer to the line.

The USDA study aligns closely with a similar one released by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which found that food stamps reduced the number of Americans living in extreme poverty in 2011 from 1.46 million to just over 800,000. SNAP’s effects on children are even bigger — the program cut the number living in extreme poverty by half, according to CBPP.

- more -

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/04/10/461337/food-stamps-reduce-poverty/


The benefits increases via the stimulus expire next year.

<...>

The Recovery Act’s increase in SNAP benefits has eased hardship and boosted the economy. SNAP has not only expanded dramatically to meet rising need during the recession, but has also delivered more than $26 billion (between April 2009 and September 2011) in additional SNAP benefits under the Recovery Act. The Recovery Act provided a temporary, 13.6 percent boost in the maximum SNAP benefit beginning in federal fiscal year 2009. Congress enacted this provision as a fast and effective economic stimulus measure to help push against the rising tide of hardship for low-income Americans. The increase is phasing down and is scheduled to end entirely on October 31, 2013.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3239


DeFazio voted against that.

Hilarious, huh?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:40 PM

85. " He's an anti-stimulus deficit hawk " ?... NonSense!

DeFazio is a Democrat who supports DEMOCRATIC stimulus.
He knows, and is not afraid to say, that Tax Cuts are the most inefficient and ineffective form of Stimulus available to the government. Government Spending and Jobs Programs work FAR better, help those who NEED it (The Working Class & Poor), and is the traditional Democratic Party method of stimulating the economy.

Defazio had NO problem spending the money targeted on Tax Cuts for MORE government spending, and voted FOR the original House version that contained
MORE Government Spending. His NO vote on the final bill was symbolic,
and I applaud him for standing up for traditional Democratic Party Values.


"We could have spent that borrowed $325 billion for tax cuts much more wisely to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, a major initiative for renewable energy, educating the next generation of workers and leaders and maybe even a big down payment on universal health care. "

http://www.blueoregon.com/2009/02/defazio-open-letter-on-the-economic-stimulus-package/


DeFazio's preference for Spending instead of Tax Cuts does NOT make him an "an anti-stimulus deficit hawk" as YOU claim.
It makes him a DEMOCRAT.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed



"By their WORKS you will know them."

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #85)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:55 PM

91. He voted against the People's Budget.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #91)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:18 PM

94. Russ Feingold voted "NO" on the Patriot Act...

..that did NOT mean he wasn't a "Patriot".
In fact, the opposite was true.

Defazio voted YES on the first bill through the House that contained MORE government spending.
THAT, right there, completely Shoots Down in Flames your claim that he is a "deficit hawk".




There is NO denying that Tax Cuts are the least effective form of Stimulus (or will YOU try to deny that?)
DeFazio is a Democrat who supports DEMOCRATIC stimulus.
He knows, and is not afraid to say, that Tax Cuts are the most inefficient and ineffective form of Stimulus available to the government. Government Spending and Jobs Programs work FAR better, help those who NEED it (The Working Class & Poor), and is the traditional Democratic Party method of stimulating the economy.



Defazio had NO problem spending the money targeted for Tax Cuts on MORE government spending, and voted FOR the original House version that contained
MORE Government Spending. His NO vote on the final bill was symbolic,
and I applaud him for standing up for traditional Democratic Party Values.


"We could have spent that borrowed $325 billion for tax cuts much more wisely to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, a major initiative for renewable energy, educating the next generation of workers and leaders and maybe even a big down payment on universal health care".--- Democratic Congressman Peter DeFazio, explaining his NO vote.


http://www.blueoregon.com/2009/02/defazio-open-letter-on-the-economic-stimulus-package/



NOW, do you have a rebuttal that addresses ANY of these specific points I have listed, some from the same source you pulled your out-of-context quote from in your willful attempt to slime a good Democrat and mislead DUers with false information?

Honestly, ProSense, you used to be better than this.
What happened?



DeFazio's preference for Spending instead of Tax Cuts does NOT make him an "an anti-stimulus deficit hawk" as YOU claim.
It makes him a DEMOCRAT.





"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed



"By their WORKS you will know them."

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #94)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:22 PM

95. What the hell does the Patriot Act have to do with the People's Budget?

DeFazio voted against the stimulus bill and the People's Budget.

Boo!

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Response to ProSense (Reply #95)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:06 PM

96. That is not a swing and a miss.

That isn't even employing Logical Fallacies in a desperate attempt to support a failing position.
What you did in your post ^ is simply Running Away & Hiding when confronted with the TRUTH about your statement.


NOW, do you have a rebuttal that addresses ANY of these specific points I have listed, some from the same source you pulled your out-of-context quote from in your willful attempt to slime a good Democrat and mislead DUers with false information?

Honestly, ProSense, you used to be better than this.
What happened?

Its so much easier to just Man Up and say, "OK I made a mistake.
I was Over-the-Top in my statements attacking a good Democrat."




DeFazio's preference for Spending instead of Tax Cuts does NOT make him an "an anti-stimulus deficit hawk" as YOU claim.
It makes him a DEMOCRAT.

--bvar22



"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed




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Response to bvar22 (Reply #96)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:07 PM

97. He voted against the stimulus!

Boo!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #96)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:13 PM

98. Another thing,

I agree with him on the fiscal cliff, but stop trying to sell a horrible vote as something it's not.

The 246 Democrats, including the entire Progressive Caucus, who voted for the bill are also Democrats.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll070.xml

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Response to ProSense (Reply #98)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:53 PM

99. More Running & Hiding.

Are you going to pretend that you have never heard of a Symbolic Protest Vote?
I applaud Defazio for using this old Congressional Tradition of expressing his support for Traditional Democratic methods of stimulating the economy through Government Spending and Jobs Programs
instead of the traditional Republican non-method of Tax Cuts.

Are you really going to try and pretend you don't know about Symbolic Votes?
Nobody is going to believe you.


There is NO denying that Tax Cuts are the least effective form of Stimulus (or will YOU try to deny that?)
DeFazio is a Democrat who supports DEMOCRATIC stimulus.
He knows, and is not afraid to say, that Tax Cuts are the most inefficient and ineffective form of Stimulus available to the government. Government Spending and Jobs Programs work FAR better, help those who NEED it (The Working Class & Poor), and is the traditional Democratic Party method of stimulating the economy.



Defazio had NO problem spending the money targeted for Tax Cuts on MORE government spending, and voted FOR the original House version that contained
MORE Government Spending. His NO vote on the final bill was symbolic,
and I applaud him for standing up for traditional Democratic Party Values.


"We could have spent that borrowed $325 billion for tax cuts much more wisely to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, a major initiative for renewable energy, educating the next generation of workers and leaders and maybe even a big down payment on universal health care".--- Democratic Congressman Peter DeFazio, explaining his NO vote.


http://www.blueoregon.com/2009/02/defazio-open-letter-on-the-economic-stimulus-package/



NOW, do you have a rebuttal that addresses ANY of these specific points I have listed, some from the same source as your out-of-context quote in your willful attempt to slime a good Democrat and mislead DUers with false information?

Are you STILL going to Double Down on your absurd and willfully misleading claim that Congressman Defazio is "an anti-stimulus deficit hawk"?

ProSense, when you find yourself in a hole,
STOP DIGGING.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #99)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:56 PM

100. "Are you going to pretend that you have never heard of a Symbolic Protest Vote?"

The 246 Democrats who voted for the bill, not a single Republican did, saw no need to protest.

Conyers, Grayson, Grijalva, Kucinich all voted yes.

You also haven't explained why he voted against he People's Budget.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #100)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:01 PM

101. Pro Sense, have you ever gone fishing,

caught a fish,
pulled it out of the water,
and watched it flopping around helplessly on the ground?
That is what I'm (and those reading this thread) are watching now.

NOW, do you have a rebuttal that addresses ANY of these specific points I have listed, some from the same source as your out-of-context quote in your willful attempt to slime a good Democrat and mislead DUers with false information?

Are you STILL going to Double Down on your absurd and willfully misleading claim that Congressman Defazio is "an anti-stimulus deficit hawk"?

ProSense, when you find yourself in a hole,
STOP DIGGING.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #101)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:01 PM

102. bvar22, your spin isn't working. n/t

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:40 PM

9. I wish I were hearing this from all the Democrats

particularly the President. Just ride it out. Call their bluff.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:31 PM

26. There's going to be a battle on, that's for sure. I'm hoping representatives like DeFazio...

...embolden other Democrats who feel similarly to speak up.

We must not be saddled with a hastily-negotiated "deal" for the next 10-20 years.

Not in this environment, and certainly not with the lame-duck Congress crawling with Tea Party types.

Next session, it won't be perfect. But it'll be better.

Sometimes that makes all the difference.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:40 PM

10. I agree with DeFazio.

 

Let's get rid of the tax cuts for everybody, and make the first bill a BETTER tax cut for the middle class and the poor.

The rich gets a massive tax raise to offset the new tax cuts.

And the Republicans will whine more.

And lose in 2014 by a massive amount for the Republicans.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:41 PM

11. What about the national credit rating?

Will we take another hit like last time?

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Response to randome (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:31 PM

27. Good question. What do you think? nm

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Response to randome (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:34 PM

50. And what was the result of that hit?

Are interest rates higher or lower now?

(hint- our rating only matters to pundits and economic chicken littles, at least in this current world economy)


Our Credit will be immeasurably strengthened by a package of tax hikes and sensible expenditure reductions. And I am certain Obama is headed for this.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:42 PM

12. He was great. Jansing was nasty.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:58 AM

76. The thing I like about DeFazio is he thrives in situations where he's being questioned...

...aggressively like that. He really does. I wish he got more shots on TV because he can go toe to toe with anyone.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:47 PM

13. Hurrah for a TRUE Democrat!

Ben Nelson, get a clue.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:47 PM

14. The National Credit Rating won't take a meaningful hit; just like the last when a rating company

 

dropped the USA down a notch, the treasury yields went down - just the opposite of what a lowered credit rating would do.

These rating companies get paid by some company to make a rating estimate and S&P or Moodys or whomever gives them what they want. Remember, they gave AAA ratings to worthless CDOs.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:59 PM

15. "Bump in the road"...pass it along. Fiscal Cliff. Not.

"No Lame Duck Deals" ... Send 'em home either to stay or to think about it and face their Middle Class and elderly taxpayers.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:30 PM

49. "Bump in the road"...pass it along. Fiscal Cliff. Not.

Indeed...

"...the only tax rate that changes on January 1st is ...

Since when is a series of steps and cliff?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:00 PM

16. I love my Oregon Senators and Reps

Merkley is on the filibuster in the Senate and DeFazio says this which makes total sense.

I love my state Oregon!!!!

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Response to dballance (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:33 PM

28. Did they legalize marijuana or same sex marriage? I love Washington the State. nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:06 PM

80. Unfortunately both those issues ended up in voter's hands as ballot measures

Both of those got hi-jacked by citizen organizations and put on the ballot. So the legislators got cut out of the flow of legalizing them.

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Response to dballance (Reply #80)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:30 PM

83. Were you referring to Washington the State? Did you mean fortunately?

Seems fortunate in Washington that the people put them on the ballot and cut out the legislature.

By-the-way I was raised in Portland, went to Marshall High and love Portland and the Oregon coast.

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Response to dballance (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:04 PM

79. They're workin' hard to fight the good fight. Hopefully they won't be...

...thwarted by their own party.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #79)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:44 PM

86. Hopefully they won't be thwarted by their own party....

...again.



"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone


photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


Solidarity!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:03 PM

18. Sooo...THAT'S what one looks like

I was beginning to believe they were mythical creatures like leprechauns or unicorns...

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:04 PM

19. K&R Hear, hear! n/t

 

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:06 PM

20. K&R

I hope more Dems back him up.

Enough letting the rich steer proceedings using M$M spin as the rudder.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:13 PM

21. K and R

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:18 PM

22. I lived in Oregon a short while and was lucky enough to actually vote for him!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:24 PM

24. I love Pete.

I'm not in his district, but I've sent him a check once or twice. The guy who runs against him (Art Robinson) is certifiable.

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Response to Bette Noir (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:42 PM

52. DeFazio Rocks and me too

Almost in his dist--but noooot quite-but I totally "lobby" votes for him He's a good one!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:26 PM

25. The Alarm Bells and Sirens are meant to spur the 3rd Way Democrats to fold..as usual.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:42 PM

33. I VOTED FOR PETE! HE'S MY MAN IN OREGON! HANG TIGHT PETE!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:43 PM

34. I can see DeFazio's point ...

But how do Democrats counter the, "President Obama promised not to raise taxes on those making $250K or less" noise from the gop and working class democrats, alike, that is bound to follow ... noise that, with help of the "liberal media" I fear will drown out every other discussion going into 2014, even if a working class tax cut is re-instated (with republican votes, BTW)?

I still say ... get the gop on record either voting against the Senate Bill, or refusing to bring the Senate Bill to a House vote. That way, if we do go over the cliff, the gop cannot claim (as much) credit, if/when a 2013 Bill re-instates the working class tax cuts.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:57 PM

40. let them howl. obama isn't going to be elected to a third term..

it's time to stop wringing your hands over what some teabagger or blue dog is going to say. let them expire, then hold a vote on middle class tax cuts.

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Response to frylock (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:01 PM

41. It's not about President Obama being elected to a 3rd term ...

it's about creating/exposing arguments that hold or expand the Senate AND take back the House in 2014.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:18 PM

44. But it is silly to think that 'if we say it just right, the Republicans won't criticize the

President'. There is nothing Obama or any Democrat can say that will not be met with any sort of blather the Republicans feel like spewing. They do not take cues from actual words or reasons. No matter what you say, you need to be ready to counter utter bullshit out of them. Example, you can say 'I was born in Hawaii' and they say 'so you are Kenyan born' and you can say 'no, Honolulu' and they say 'Ah, Nairobi, where your Daddy taught Commie 101 to the school kids'.
I mean, you and I just watched the same election. These are irrational, racist vote suppressing lunatics with only self interest at heart. Yet you think there is some way to cozy on by them, some need to not ruffle the feathers of the right?
Oh, and by the way. Working class Democrats just elected Obama. You claim working class Democrats parrot Republicans and that is such bullshit, elitist as hell. You seem concerned with the shiny image of 1%er politicians while you make wise cracks about the working class. Well the working class just stood for him or he'd be heading to Chicago top of the year. Forget that if you want a repeat of 2010.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:43 PM

35. K&R !!!!!

Thanks for lighting up the truth.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:51 PM

36. K & R

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:56 PM

39. A case of spinaltosis breaks out amongst the Democrats.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:02 PM

42. Hearing his name always reminds me of this Onion piece

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:10 PM

47. K&R for a real democrat.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:36 PM

51. Yep, speaking as an Oregonian, he does an excellent job here in showing what real liberals think

about this fiscal cliff nonsense. DeFazio has always been a progressive Democrat, and a great representative of the progressive values in my state.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:19 PM

53. DeFazio is a REAL Democrat, very approachable, and does something that all Congresscritters

could do: hold low-cost pizza and beer fundraisers for us ordinary folks. You didn't have to pay $1000 just to talk to him.

I didn't live in his district, but I made a point of attending his Portland-area beer and pizza fundraisers.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:40 PM

59. The hour is late, the pretenders have cashed in and tomorrow starts soon.

It's time to push all the chips to the center of the table and find out who's holdin' and who's foldin'.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 08:43 PM

60. Peter DeFazio is a great rep!

He would've made a better Senator than Ron Wyden, in my opinion.
I remember when they were running against each other for that senate seat back in the 90s

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 08:50 PM

62. Ya, IMO you're right about DeFazio making a better senator. Still, I'm...

...incredibly pleased to call him my representative and to have seen such a fine Democratic politician, after the style of Wayne Morse, walking through Eugene.

He is, as I have said many times, the real deal.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 08:50 PM

61. That's MY rep! nt

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Response to dhpgetsit (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:13 PM

67. I'm a couple of miles from the district line, in Schrader country.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:44 PM

63. Peter is correct. Besides, the T-Baggers have some other urgent

work to do, such as naming a lot of public buildings and warships after Reagan, Dole, Bush, and maybe even Romney.

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Response to SDjack (Reply #63)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:58 PM

92. You know, it's time we strip the Reagan name from public places and rename for FDR ...

... nothing would make heads explode faster than if there was a full assault on St. Ronnie, exposing him and his policies for what they were. It is time to turn back the 30 years of lies.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:59 PM

64. Democrats need to remember we won this election.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:05 PM

65. Yeah! Howsabout it!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:12 PM

66. DeFazio goes on MSNBC, says "No bad deal" and "that's crazy" actually.

He does not say "Fuck" and no heads were exploded in the production of the program !

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:42 PM

68. This is so true...

Let all the rates expire and then introduce legislation to give tax releif to the middleclass and dare the Republicans to reject it...

In fact it will pass unanimously and we can go from there....

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:11 AM

71. NO DEAL this year is the BEST DEAL.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:01 AM

73. I always loved DeFazio. He's a fighter. We need more fighters in this party.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:07 AM

74. K&R for acting like we won the election!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:48 AM

75. Wow, just wow! He kicked ass... Looks like we have another progressive hero!

He wasn't at all fazed by Jansing's aggressive questioning.

Go Pete!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:34 AM

77. Great o/p Poll_Blind

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:24 PM

82. .

Now, that is taxation with Representation. That's what a representitive of the PEOPLE should say.


Love it....

Sofa king cool..

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:30 PM

87. What he says is true, except right now the President has high support which may change if he waits

until next year.

What I am saying is that he should do just as he is, say the Senate has a bill where 100% will get a tax break on 250K or less, and 2% will have to pay a little more on amounts greater than 2%

Take it or leave it

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:00 PM

88. HUGE K & R !!!






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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:05 PM

89. I like your suggestion: We start acting like we won the election.... And DeFazio's suggestion that

we wait until the next congress is in session...

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:29 PM

90. Wowsa!!

I love my Rep!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:05 PM

103. Super Spine

He's got a good stiff one. I like this guy.

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