HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » The Grand Bargain is comi...

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:06 PM

The Grand Bargain is coming! The Grand Bargain is coming!

First of all, let's get rid of the revisionist history (that's RW territory, anyway) and think back to the ACTUAL Grand Bargain.

We need to remember that the original GB had great success for the Liberals - it managed to extend the tax cuts, both Bush and Obama's - for the Middle Class. Unfortunately, it also extended the Upper Class tax cuts temporarily, but Obama seems determined not to let that happen this time. It also extended Unemployment benefits that were due to expire. I could go on and on, but let's suffice it to say that in the face of unprecedented RW obstructionism O managed to broker a deal that overwhelmingly benefited Progressive ideals.

But let's get to the meat of the matter - it also contained a "trigger" clause. It established a special commission later called the Fiscal Commission that was designed to either be wildly successful.... or to fail.

Personally, I think this was a great idea. An Independent Bipartisan Commission to seriously look at the issues and agree on the proposals. And then, an actual Up or Down vote on the approved proposal! Genius!

Except, in order to be approved the Commission had to overwhelmingly approve the measures by a 14 out of 17 vote. Not just a Super-majority, but more than 80+% approval. Of course, no Committee can gain that amount of approval, but it will force them to TRY and consider measures they wouldn't have, otherwise.

One thing that everyone should remember is that the Simpson-Bowles recommendations were REJECTED. That is an excellent bargaining chip to begin with.

As far as Dick Durbin's recent comments, let's pay attention to what he actually said:

Social Security is off the table - period. Medicare and Medicaid need to be solvent WITHOUT cutting benefits - and if someone has a good idea to do that WITHOUT cutting benefits, we're willing to listen (for anyone who has done actual negotiations, this is standard practice; "If you have a better way I'm willing to listen").

Now I agree that NOW is the time to make our preferences known. In fact, Obama is depending on us to do so! But remember to direct your efforts towards those who affront your efforts. Don't tell Dems "you need to try harder", tell the RW "you need to do what's right for Americans".

74 replies, 3608 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 74 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Grand Bargain is coming! The Grand Bargain is coming! (Original post)
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 OP
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #1
woo me with science Nov 2012 #2
TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #7
Oilwellian Nov 2012 #10
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #11
leftstreet Nov 2012 #12
upi402 Nov 2012 #18
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #42
Raksha Nov 2012 #57
PETRUS Nov 2012 #60
99Forever Nov 2012 #67
forestpath Nov 2012 #73
hfojvt Nov 2012 #3
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #20
Savannahmann Nov 2012 #28
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #31
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #37
hfojvt Nov 2012 #39
quinnox Nov 2012 #52
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #43
gravity Nov 2012 #4
upi402 Nov 2012 #21
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #32
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #36
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #38
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #22
limpyhobbler Nov 2012 #5
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #45
democrattotheend Nov 2012 #6
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #23
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #40
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #46
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #49
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #53
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #54
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #55
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #63
99Forever Nov 2012 #68
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #69
99Forever Nov 2012 #70
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #74
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #8
leftstreet Nov 2012 #13
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #14
leftstreet Nov 2012 #16
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #17
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #50
woo me with science Nov 2012 #59
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #65
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #41
WorseBeforeBetter Nov 2012 #9
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #24
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #47
WorseBeforeBetter Nov 2012 #58
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #64
WorseBeforeBetter Nov 2012 #71
WorseBeforeBetter Nov 2012 #61
quinnox Nov 2012 #15
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #25
quinnox Nov 2012 #27
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #33
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #44
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #34
Savannahmann Nov 2012 #29
quinnox Nov 2012 #30
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #35
BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #48
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #19
NashvilleLefty Nov 2012 #26
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #51
Vattel Nov 2012 #56
ProSense Nov 2012 #62
Vattel Nov 2012 #72
YoungDemCA Nov 2012 #66

Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:52 PM

1. Considering the lack of resonse

vs the number of views, I have to wonder if maybe I posted this in the wrong forum.

In the old DU, this would have generated a lot of response.

I have to wonder, am I so far off the mark. or am I so close to it?

I miss the old DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:55 PM

2. What a reeking, steaming pile of bullshit.

Last edited Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:21 AM - Edit history (3)

The Grand Bargain was no victory for liberals. The Grand Bargain was a shock doctrine scam designed to force the 99 percent into accepting austerity when austerity would never have been accepted by the country had it been offered as an option by representatives who truly meant to represent us. How dare you claim that using Medicare and Social Security as hostages to get an austerity deal was a victory for liberals.

I'll tell you what the Grand Bargain gave us. The Grand Bargain gave us validation of right-wing lies and talking points about what is wrong with our economy and what needs to be done to fix it. It gave us Democratic enabling of the right-wing narrative and commitments for trillions in cuts to the budget when our own eyes, the experience of Europe, and hundreds of economists have shown us that austerity is a cruel, destructive scam for profit, a destroyer of economies and murderer of human beings. It gave us Third Way garbage rhetoric about "shared sacrifice," and it completely obscured the fact that the 99 percent have been deliberately looted and impoverished through policy for the past 30 years, escalating in the past 15.

Dems had better damned well try harder. They had better try harder to correct the larger narrative and to represent the people who gave them this election victory. We are being fed garbage propaganda trying to tell us that we will have won and should be grateful if Dems merely refrain from attacking us one more time in some particular area like Social Security or taxes. But we have already lost the big game, because this entire reeking deal will keep the Republican narrative and the march to austerity alive, along with 99.999 percent of the corporate-restructured status quo that is destroying millions of American lives as we speak.

Dems owe us much, much more than a promise not to assault us again in some isolated, particular way. We are owed a new vision, a sweeping, passionate, and sustained correction of the LIES that we have been hearing for 30 years, and a sustained, serious campaign of action to REVERSE the structural changes of the past 30 years and the damage that has been perpetrated on millions of Americans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:53 PM

7. And that is a post!

Gotta have a cigarette.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:23 AM

10. Bravo

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:25 AM

11. Revisonsionist BS.

Were you asleep?

Google is your friend. Please educate yourself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:26 AM

12. +1

Thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:34 AM

18. + 1,000 ^

And Obama told Boner he was willing to make the deal. Just like Democrat Clinton did NAFTA, GATT and the Telecom Act.

Austerity sent Europe into a puke spraying spin. Now the New World Order folks want to bring it to the homeland.

woo me with science is right.

The media traitors have duped good folks into buying this crap long enough.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:27 AM

42. +1

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:04 AM

57. Terrific post - should be an OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:50 AM

60. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:44 PM

67. ^^^^^THIS!^^^^^^

Read this, you capitulating DINOs. Understand this, you capitulating DINOs.

Take it to heart.


Or reap the whirlwind.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:39 PM

73. BRAVO!!!!! This is EXACTLY how I feel!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:18 PM

3. can you seriously believe that?

"a deal that overwhelmingly benefitted Progressive ideals"

Seriously?

That's only true if "progressive ideals" means "Reaganomics".

Seriously?

Here, read this

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxcompromise2010.pdf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hfojvt (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:37 AM

20. It is not "Reagonomics", and any attempt to paint it as such

is ridiculous on the face of it.

I did not read your link, I prefer to think for myself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:07 AM

28. I have to wonder

Where you get the information to think for yourself. Thinking for yourself means you take in data from a number of sources, and then make an informed decision. By refusing to read the information contained at the link, you have demonstrated you are not thinking for yourself, and instead are parroting talking points of Democrats who are trying to set the ground up to declare defeat a victory of sorts.

In other words, stop carrying the water of the surrender now Blue Dogs. We have time on our side, and we have facts on our side. The Repugs will NEVER hold fast to their no taxes on the rich crap. They're already folding like a house of cards in a strong wind. Deep south Conservative Repugs like Chambliss was the first to throw the no tax increase pledge out the window. So while the Repugs are giving up, we're racing to show we can surrender faster, and we're told that is a victory? Pfui.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Savannahmann (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:29 AM

31. Interesting post - first of all, I am NOT suggesting "surrender now"

nor am I a Blue Dog. This is what I am talking about when it comes to Revisionist History.

Actually, I did learn to think for myself. I did take in data from a number of different sources, That is HOW I came to the decisions that I did.

Good advice. You should follow it, yourself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:01 AM

37. And you thought "We need to remember that the original GB had great success for the Liberals"?

 

Incidentally, since you mentioned "the Liberals" and not "we liberals" or anything equivalent, it's clear that you are not a liberal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:18 AM

39. How is it ridiculous

to paint "tax cuts for the rich" as Reaganomics? That is the very definition of Reaganomics.

As for thinking for yourself, that is all well and good. But if you assert that 4 times 2 is greater than the square root of 81 you are not thinking for yourself just because you refuse to look at any calculations. You are fooling yourself, and simply saying, as in the classic joke - "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hfojvt (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:53 AM

52. apparently to the OP, tax cuts are now a prime objective of the Democratic party

I guess they think the Republicans solution to everything, "tax cuts tax cuts, tax cuts" is also part of the Dem party platform.

On top of that, they think this is what represents a progressive victory. We have truly entered bizarro world.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:30 AM

43. tax cuts slanted so the 10% get the lion's share of the cuts ain't reaganomics?

 

i'd have foregone my lousy hundred bucks for real reform, thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:44 PM

4. Obama is a smart negotiator

He might not always seem strong in the process but he gets what he wants.

The Republicans are really not that smart at negotiating. If they get over their anti-tax rhetoric and actually insists on compromising with Democrats, they could get a lot more concessions from Obama. Instead they care about short term political gain which can become their own undoing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gravity (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:37 AM

21. Huh? He took Single Payer off the table from the start

WTF?

He tries to start from just this side of what hey want and never gets tough.
He's so busy trying to reason with the fool scorpions that he forgets who brought him to the damn table!

Seriously?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upi402 (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:33 AM

32. did single payer ever have a chance?

I support single Payer, but not even the Public Option would pass.

I would prefer single payer over the ACA, but it won't pass. So I'll settle for the ACA.

Maybe someday we'll be ready for Medicare for All. I'll gladly support it. But until then, I'll settle for the ACA. It's better than what we had before.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upi402 (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:55 AM

36. You would think that all other thinking people would catch on to this. Apparently some, if sincere,

 

are going to need a little more time and a few more lessons.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upi402 (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:18 AM

38. He never ran on single payer and NO Democrat in Congress would have gotten it through

with the filibuster firmly in place and too many BlueDogDems that infested the House. To not understand the dynamics of that time only makes your post sound like a Tea Partier who is creating an alternative Obama to criticize. Yeah, President Obama knows who'd brung him to the table, and so should you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gravity (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:41 AM

22. Exactly! Which some people tend to denigrate. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:45 PM

5. Nothing can pass unless Obama signs it, and unless it passes the Democrats in the Senate.

So it's like totally awesome to communicate your views to your Members of Congress of both parties, and to President Obama.

Durbin said Social Security should be off the table for a temporary deal, but back on the table later for a long term deal.

If they claim to be saving money from Medicare without cutting benefits, they have to show the specifics on that, because we would need proof, not just a promise.

I'm not sure why they want to cut spending right now anyway. Seems to go against the advice of economists.

A financial transaction tax should also be on the table as part of any deal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:31 AM

45. so far they've saved money by reducing provider payments. funny kind of savings.

 

i'd prefer single-payer negotiating on drug prices.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:51 PM

6. Durbin is a close ally of the president

So if he is saying this, that is encouraging. Hopefully what he says reflects the White House's position as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to democrattotheend (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:44 AM

23. But there are a lot of people twisting his words

which I thought was a RW tactic. But there are some on the Left twisting his words as well. I thought We were better than that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:24 AM

40. The Republican Party isn't the only

party with Purists. That's pretty clear.

The Democratic Party has its loud, though tiny, fair share of a fringe, too. President Obama understood that, that's why he expanded his base. No longer could they hold him hostage with their unrealistic demands "or they'd otherwise not vote for him" bull shit. With a strong growing Latino (moderates) and African-American (pragmatists) base, he could garner enough voters to push him over the finish line.

Luckily for us, the vast majority in the Democratic Party are pragmatists, not idealists, and that's why we got health care reform, among so many other beneficial policies, through - something that couldn't be done in 60 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:32 AM

46. yeah, the tiny fringe was holding obama hostage. lol. funny stuff.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:39 AM

49. I know, huh? But some are deluded enough to believe they could,

and much like the TeaBagger community of the Republican Party, underestimated this president and FAILED. Bwahahaha!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:45 AM

53. really? the fringe thought they could hold obama hostage? who is it that's delusional again?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #53)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:52 AM

54. I just told you. The fringe of the Democratic Party.

Missed that did ya?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:36 AM

55. one wonders what you think you're laughing at.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:36 AM

63. What I'm laughing at? I'm laughing at the people who constantly underestimate this

president only to get burned.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #63)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:53 PM

68. Seems obvious to anyone reading this...

.. who's at the top of your priority list...

.. and it ISN'T the People.

Great "Democratic" set of values you've got there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #68)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:30 PM

69. That's your opinion.

And if the shoe fits, hey, what can I say?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #69)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:57 PM

70. Dunno...

... maybe you could toss out a few more tired, irrelevant cliches and pretend they are deep thinking?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #70)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:16 PM

74. Dunno . . .

Then I'd become you, wouldn't I?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:04 AM

8. I have faith in the president to do the right thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:27 AM

13. 'Faith?' He's a politician, not a deity n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:29 AM

14. how about confidence?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:30 AM

16. I guess that's better

Not sure what you're basing it on, but it's always nice to maintain a positive attitude

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:32 AM

17. If I wasn't positive i would get depressed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:44 AM

50. Don't let the small but LOUD group depress you.

Keep focused on the good work President Obama is getting through.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:11 AM

59. Step back a few feet from the thread

Last edited Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:54 PM - Edit history (1)

to observe the perfect irony of that post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:17 PM

65. Don't worry, Woo. I see you. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftstreet (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:27 AM

41. Even I understood that it was an informal use of the word.

Sheesh. Settle down, will ya? We're not the enemy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:10 AM

9. I couldn't get past "the original GB had great success for the Liberals."

Woo says it best in #2.

Social Security and Medicare have been "third rail" for decades -- do we REALLY need to tell Obama that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:52 AM

24. The original GB didn't touch either one. Again,

educate yourself. Google is your friend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:36 AM

47. The same types responding to your posts

aren't here to educate themselves, NashvilleLefty. Besides, they know everything soooo much better than everybody else - MUCH better than President Obama, even. They remind me of the other fringe, the way they create a phantom Obama just so they can tear him to pieces. I don't really know why they're insistent upon seeing the glass as always half empty when it comes to this president, but the antagonistic tone of their posts tells me there's something deeper going on with these types, and it ain't pretty.

Don't worry too much, NashvilleLefty. Your posts are appreciated by the majority despite the shrillness of the minority here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:52 AM

58. LOL "Something deeper," BCD? Do tell, Dr. Freud.

If it's Melissa Harris-Perry bullshit, peddle it elsewhere, because "these types" ain't buying it..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WorseBeforeBetter (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:11 PM

64. Well, Doubting Thomas,

it might be the deep, deep mourning some die-hard Dennis Kucinich fans are suffering because their beloved icon has lost his seat to a REAL Democrat and he's OUT of office this January and they feel they need to lash out at the "cheerleaders" in "their" Democratic Party because no one gives a damn about that inconsequential Democrat who has proven to be a great ally for the Republican Party? Could that be it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:05 PM

71. LOL "Dennis Kucinich"? That's the best you can come up with?

Skepticism is healthy. Blind loyalty is not.

I doubted Saddam had WMDs, and guess what? I was right.

I doubted that Afghanistan would be anything but a huge clusterfuck, and guess what? I was right.

I doubted that the Bush tax cuts would do anything but hurt the economy, and guess what? I was right.

In 1983, bipartisanship gave us age eligibility increases to Social Security. Why would you doubt that it couldn't happen again? ESPECIALLY with our current president, who praises Reagan and strives for bipartisanship?

And if you're going to hurl what you consider to be insults at anyone who isn't a die-hard Obama fan, at least get it right: I'd be considered a Deaniac. But I'm also a big girl who will acknowledge when he's right, and when he's wrong. Something I can do with Obama, and yes, Kucinich. Try it sometime.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:04 AM

61. What's it like to live with one's head in the sand?

Leaked deal memo from grand bargain talks - show threat to Social Security, Medicare, safety net...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014302628

Leaked deal memo for last year’s Grand Bargain: “Obama willing to go quite far”
http://americablog.com/2012/11/leaked-deal-memo-for-last-years-grand-bargain-obama-willing-to-go-quite-far.html

Top Story — Obama’s 2011 Grand Bargain Detailed in Documents Obtained by Bob Woodward
http://www.taylormarsh.com/blog/2012/11/obamas-2011-grand-bargain-detailed-in-documents-obtained-by-bob-woodward/

The Grand Bargain: Gutting Tricare - the sacred health insurance program for the military
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/13/1160951/-Tricare-the-sacred-health-insurance-program-for-the-military

There's plenty more where that came from. And don't bother with the predictable Malleable Middle attacks on Bob Woodward and the *firebaggers.* Yawn.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:30 AM

15. lol

talk about revisionism. I have never heard even the most die-hard BOG-er call that deal a great success for the "liberal" wing. As the famous movie scene goes - "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:54 AM

25. Then you would be wrong. Google is your friend. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:01 AM

27. heh, this reminds me of the brief campaign

where BOG types kept saying Obama is the most progressive president we have ever had. They eventually stopped due to either sheer embarrassment, or being unable to keep a straight face when they said it. Maybe this OP can be the start of a new campaign with this theme.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:36 AM

33. well, perhaps you should forget your prejudices

and judge individual actions by themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #33)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:30 AM

44. I swear

sometimes I wonder if they're Liberals or TeaBaggers as antagonistic as they are.

Another reason why President Obama knew he had to expand his base.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:51 AM

34. Yep.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:09 AM

29. We've got to get the ability to rec responses, because yours is one that would be recced a lot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Savannahmann (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:16 AM

30. thanks, I also think that would be an awesome feature to add to DU

DU needs some new tricks, and is a lagging a bit behind the times in this area. I suggested it back some months ago when DU 3 first went online. And so did many others in fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Savannahmann (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:52 AM

35. x2

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Savannahmann (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:37 AM

48. Or the ability to UNrec a responding post.

That would so awesome.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:36 AM

19. have we really gotten so obsessed with competition that we're now taking bets

on whether or not there will be a grand bargain? Do I think there will be a grand bargain? Yes. Will it crush me if it turns out I'm wrong? No. But I'm sure there will be plenty of people ready to say see I was right and rub my nose in it. I would love to be wrong on this one. I hope I'm wrong on this one. Geez. We really are too obsessed with being right all the time. It's okay to be wrong sometimes people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:57 AM

26. good point - there will NOT be a new "Grand Bargain".

But there is so much unjustified fear expressed here that I felt it needed that it be addressed.

But, no, there won't be another "Grand Bargain".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:44 AM

51. So, you start a thread with an outright lie and a weak attempt to revise history,

 

a history so recent and well documented that the news stories still come up in the first page of two of any Google search. Then, you complain because people are looking at it and choosing to let it sink into the oblivion it so richly deserves. And now that you have indeed sparked some discussion you label it RW talking points and revisionist history.

From whose playbook is this strategy drawn?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:54 AM

56. The grand bargain was rejected. You are talking about the actual debt ceiling agreement.

I am glad the republicans rejected the grand bargain, because Obama did offer cutting medicare benefits and social security benefits.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Vattel (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:12 AM

62. "I am glad the republicans rejected the grand bargain," and

now Democrats get to return the favor.

Van Hollen takes Medicare age increase and Social Security off the table
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021891741

Sanders Applauds White House for Taking Social Security Off the Table in Deficit Talks
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014319000






Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ProSense (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:35 PM

72. awesome!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NashvilleLefty (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:31 PM

66. Don't assume that the President is "on your side" in all this....

He has done little to calm the fears and suspicions of progressives.

Meanwhile, the Republicans have to hate him, even when he adopts Republican policies. After all, what good is a one-party system in a "democracy"? That would be a public relations nightmare...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread