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Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:24 PM

On "prick", "dickhead", and other misogynistic language ...

Well, I'm a 61 year old white male, and I cannot recall a single instance when I was ever denied one fucking thing because of my gender.
I say this as one who is fairly close to a free speech absolutist; but perhaps those who HAVE been held back with regard to little things like the right to vote, the right to control their own reproductive freedom, and the right to receive equal pay for equal work might be allowed a little bit of leeway in determining which words are more hurtful, if not in the real world, at least in the context of a progressive internet message board.
Of course, that's just one man's opinion.

57 replies, 5101 views

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Arrow 57 replies Author Time Post
Reply On "prick", "dickhead", and other misogynistic language ... (Original post)
11 Bravo Nov 2012 OP
annabanana Nov 2012 #1
mzteris Nov 2012 #2
duhneece Nov 2012 #45
WinkyDink Nov 2012 #3
11 Bravo Nov 2012 #6
niyad Nov 2012 #8
yardwork Nov 2012 #12
ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #4
oldhippydude Nov 2012 #5
niyad Nov 2012 #7
spanone Nov 2012 #9
Politicub Nov 2012 #10
msongs Nov 2012 #11
LanternWaste Nov 2012 #14
eomer Nov 2012 #20
Vinnie From Indy Nov 2012 #13
LanternWaste Nov 2012 #19
xxqqqzme Nov 2012 #23
lapislzi Nov 2012 #49
alphafemale Nov 2012 #15
AlbertCat Nov 2012 #31
TahitiNut Nov 2012 #35
gollygee Nov 2012 #41
Journeyman Nov 2012 #43
alphafemale Dec 2012 #56
Marmitist Nov 2012 #16
seabeyond Nov 2012 #24
freshwest Nov 2012 #17
tclambert Nov 2012 #18
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #22
loyalsister Nov 2012 #54
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #55
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #21
Warpy Nov 2012 #27
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #51
liberalmuse Nov 2012 #25
patrice Nov 2012 #26
EOTE Nov 2012 #47
patrice Nov 2012 #50
chknltl Nov 2012 #28
SunSeeker Nov 2012 #29
jeggus Nov 2012 #30
Zorra Nov 2012 #32
CrispyQ Nov 2012 #33
geckosfeet Nov 2012 #34
OldHippieChick Nov 2012 #36
Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #38
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #37
Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #39
mythology Nov 2012 #40
Eyes of the World Nov 2012 #42
cherish44 Nov 2012 #44
neffernin Nov 2012 #48
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #53
neffernin Nov 2012 #46
Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #52
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #57

Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:27 PM

1. Thank you for a thoughtful post....n/t

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:37 PM

2. wow. Thank you.

not quite what I was expecting when I clicked on the link.

You get it. You understand. That, sir, is a great feeling.

Thank you.

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Response to mzteris (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:19 PM

45. Amen. nt

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:39 PM

3. (Misandrist. :-) ) Awesome post!

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:46 PM

6. Yeah, I knew that when I typed it, but thought it might get lost in translation . Do you think ...

I should edit, or just let it go?

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:49 PM

8. nah, just let it go. we have to have something to kvetch about.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:53 PM

12. I like it. I thought you did it on purpose, ironic-like.

I love your OP. K&R.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:39 PM

4. Thank you

Pretty awesome

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:43 PM

5. +1 66 year old caucasian male...

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:48 PM

7. thank you for a very thoughtful post. "prick" and "dickhead" would more properly be considered

misandrist, rather than misogynistic, however.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:49 PM

9. k&r...

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:50 PM

10. Right on. Great post.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:52 PM

11. denied? well at least maybe not that you KNOW of... nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:58 PM

14. Like unicorns and flying monkeys--

"denied? well at least maybe not that you KNOW of.."

Like unicorns and flying monkeys-- I've never seen one that I KNOW of...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:26 PM

20. I think he was talking about the right to vote.

There is no doubt some people have been denied the right to vote without knowing it.



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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 07:57 PM

13. Will there be a list of these words forthcoming to guide us?

After that list is produced, wouldn't it make sense to move on to producing lists of books and magazines that are hurtful? After that, maybe a list of hurtful art could be produced as well.

Please let us know when these lists have been prepared and posted.

Cheers!

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Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:26 PM

19. There is a list...

There is a list... it's simply called common sense and common decency. No small print, either. Of course, one may choose to ignore common sense, and rationalize the contrary behavior-- happens all the time.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:30 PM

23. Thee's always one

taking it over the edge, just one step too far.

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Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:09 PM

49. Resorting to sexist language suggests other mental/perceptual limitations.

A dearth of ideas, if you will, or an extension of the Confucian proverb, "the man (sic) who strikes the first blow admits that his ideas have given out."

If that's all you can come up with, I feel sorry for you. And, if you are OK with your whole self being shorthanded into a piece of anatomy, then I feel even more sorry for you.

There are plenty of creative and intelligent ways to insult people's ideas without stooping to this language.

Let that stand as a challenge to you, Indy friend.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:12 PM

15. I do think the term bitch is almost gender neutral now.

Especially as a verb. Almost like hysteria has lost its roots to being specifically demeaning to females.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:09 PM

31. I do think the term bitch is almost gender neutral now.

I just watch the film "Evil Under the Sun"... made sometime in the 80's...mid 8o's I think. They used the word "bitch" like 50 times!

As a verb, it has nothing to do with gender... and hasn't for a while.

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Response to alphafemale (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:22 PM

35. Well, "bastard" IS (technically) gender-neutral ...

... but I'd guess a poll might find that more than 75% just unconsciously assume it applies only to males. It's pretty much the connotation even if it's not the denotation. It's my impression that it's a sociological/cultural balancing vis-a-vis "bitch" in an attempt to gain symmetry. (Linguistically, "dog" would be the appropriate symmetry' but it just doesn't have the impact desired.) It's strange that anyone would choose to impugn someone's parents instead of the person, but I guess that's a kind of collateral damage in the war between the sexes.

I'm pretty much as feminist as a guy can reasonably get and have never regarded "bitch" (or even "slut") as demeaning to all women, any more than I've regarded "prick" or "putz" as demeaning to all men, even though those latter terms would, at least analytically, be arguably more demeaning to the whole gender. I tend to overthink such things, I guess.


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Response to TahitiNut (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:04 PM

41. The thing about "bastard"

Is that it's more a statement about the person's mother than the person. That's an annoyance to me - that two of the negative things to call a man, "bastard" and "son of a bitch", are both really about his mother. (Though yes, bastard is technically gender neutral.)

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Response to gollygee (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:30 AM

43. So refer to him as a "Son of a Bachelor". . .

you get two insults in one, you keep yourself clean, and yet in no way do you demean the recipient's mother.

(The insult "Son of a Bachelor" is from Herman Melville, Moby Dick.)

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Response to TahitiNut (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 04:50 AM

56. the term "bitch"

Really seems as benign and almost gender neutral as harp or nag.

Especially as a verb.

Language evolves.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:20 PM

16. "I cannot recall a single instance when I was ever denied one fucking thing because of my gender."

 

Lesbian Sex?

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Response to Marmitist (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:36 PM

24. jerk? nt

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:22 PM

17. Thank you very much, 11 Bravo.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:23 PM

18. I like what Jeff Foxworthy did with "redneck."

It's just a joke now. You can't really insult anyone with it. If you try to ban a word, that gives it more power--shock power, defiance of authority power, rarity of use power. Make it common and silly and poof! it becomes powerless.

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Response to tclambert (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:30 PM

22. Believe it or not there's a lot of feminists who believe in taking back words as well

...for the same reasons. It makes a lot of sense.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:40 PM

54. Except they have different origins

There is a valid unoffensive reference for redneck - the sun a farmer gets when working.

Taking back words that have an offensive origin don't change that only meaning they have had.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:13 PM

55. Redneck means something considerably different to those who are old enough to remember

At least that has been my experience growing up in the South.

Redneck is a derogatory slang term used in reference to poor, uneducated white farmers, especially from the southern United States. It is similar in meaning to cracker (especially regarding Georgia and Florida), hillbilly (especially regarding Appalachia and the Ozarks), and white trash (but without the last term's suggestions of immorality).

In recent decades, the term has expanded its meaning to refer to bigoted, loutish reactionaries who are opposed to modern ways, and has often been used to attack Southern conservatives and racists. At the same time, some Southern whites have reclaimed the word, using it with pride and defiance as a self-identifier.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck



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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:28 PM

21. My great grandmother was denied the right to vote

...but I've never felt that empowered me to use sexist language.

Just sayin'

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:51 PM

27. One of my mother's early memories

was of marching in a Suffragette parade in NYC with my grandmother and great grandmother. I'm the last of a long line of uppity Irish broads.

However, I find language policing to be far more offensive than language that might make me cringe.

It's ruined more than one board.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:30 PM

51. I agree completely

I just reject the notion that because women were denied the right to vote, one of the two genders deserves any privilege over the other. It's simply an attempt to conflate race based discrimination (which certainly is generational) to gender based discrimination, which isn't. Women got the right to vote in 1920. At that time the voting age was 21. Therefore anyone living today who was ever denied the right to vote based on gender could be born no later than 1899 and would be at least 113 today.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:47 PM

25. Marry me?

The acknowledgement in your post means a helluva lot to some of us.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:50 PM

26. Huh? That's misanthropic language. I'm a woman & we don't have pricks or dicks. Maybe I

misunderstand what you're referring to.

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Response to patrice (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:47 PM

47. Misandrist, I believe.

Misanthropy is the dislike of humanity in general.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:35 PM

50. Thanks for the catch! . . . & some of that going around too!, sad to say.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:52 PM

28. Well Said

KnR. nuff said

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:05 PM

29. K&R

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:05 PM

30. I prefer Dickhead..............

 

it just sounds more distinguished!

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:12 PM

32. If you have a female significant other, make sure she sees your OP.

I'm pretty sure you'll be very glad you did.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:15 PM

33. I admit I use to use all that language . . .

bitch, cunt, twat, dick, prick. Now I just use asshole cuz everyone has one! I'm an equal opportunity swearer.

The hardest word to give up was prick. It just sounds so succinct & perfect on the tongue.

A very thoughtful post 11Bravo!

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:17 PM

34. You old dog you. Ya know, dog is the word for the male of the species.

But I mean it in the best way possible.



In breeding circles, a male canine is referred to as a dog, while a female is called a bitch (Middle English bicche, from Old English bicce, ultimately from Old Norse bikkja). A group of offspring is a litter. The father of a litter is called the sire, and the mother is called the dam. Offspring are, in general, called pups or puppies, from French poupée, until they are about a year old. The process of birth is whelping, from the Old English word hwelp (cf. German Welpe, Dutch welp, Swedish valpa, Icelandic hvelpur).


I am guessing that even when not breeding it is permissible to call dogs dogs and bitches bitches. Funny how much canine taxonomy we apply to humans.

Dog - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:22 PM

36. Could expect nothing less from the class of '69

Classmate

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Response to OldHippieChick (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:38 PM

38. Class of '69--

We shall intertwine.

I sorta accidentally became a member of the Class of '69 because the draft board thought i needed a little vacation from college. (Should have graduated with my BS in '66.)

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:37 PM

37. Seriously?

If you are 61, you are familiar with this.



Sometimes, it's not what you're denied, but what you're obliged.

And as pointed out upthread, a review of the dictionary definition of "misogyny" may be in order.

But to your main point, I fully agree that if terms are hurtful, they shouldn't be used. But "context" be damned. If it shouldn't be said, it shouldn't be said.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:40 PM

39. Yup. Haven't seen one of them in years.

I went from 1A to 4A after a little hiking & camping tour of what used to be French Indochina.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:02 PM

40. I disagree

If the underlying issue is that people are using a word based on a gender specific meaning, then it's wrong if it's used as an insult. Otherwise you're being a hypocrite.

Besides, I don't know about you, but I've certainly had people treat me as though I wouldn't know or want to know about certain things because I'm a guy. I've had to watch people run to check on a woman who was injured and those same people the next day laughed in my face for getting injured because as a guy I should have been okay with it. The concussion I took lasted longer than the broken nose the woman had.

There's almost always going to be a group that had it worse. Can women not complain because the African slaves had it worse in this country in the historical reference? Or can the descendant so African slaves complain more?

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:24 AM

42. How about kids in a custody fight?

 

Family court still seems to think that its harder to be a mother without a vagina.

But at least they don't call you names while they humiliate you. So there is that...

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:37 AM

44. Actually I'm one woman on the planet who has no strong reaction about the c word

You can call me that a million times. I HAVE been called that... I don't flinch or even care. And believe me, that drives the person who is directing the profanity crazy.... Insults only have as much power as you're willing to give them.

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Response to cherish44 (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:54 PM

48. I think

a lot of spawns from "principle of the matter". Its not the word itself, it the perceived disrespect etc. I can understand it, but many do take it a bit too far with how much they are against it (and some people don't know when its never appropriate).

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Response to cherish44 (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:22 PM

53. Those kinds of things reflect far more negatively on those who use them

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:43 PM

46. I tell my wife

that in some ways, I can understand her plight. I was born into a family with poverty on all sides and have managed to rise up into the middle class completely on my own; it hasn't been easy and has taken lots of hard work and luck. But she is a (now legal) Hispanic immigrant and even though she speaks perfect English (its her first language as she grew up here) and was at the top of her high school class she will never have it easy just due to the color of her skin and the prejudices that people have in hiring positions against women's abilities. In that way, I'll never be able to understand her plight; I can just do my best to support her to achieve as much as she can.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:48 PM

52. I agree. I've listened here and changed my mind.

What is the big deal? If a group I care about finds a behavior I don't care about offensive, I can lose that behavior in a heartbeat. No big deal.

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Response to 11 Bravo (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:19 AM

57. I hope I'm not being too forward, but....











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