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Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:35 PM

 

Anyone else want someone other than Rice as SOS? Who do you want?

I think many other choices mentioned would be better. John Kerry has been mentioned. I think he would be fantastic. Another name mentioned, Wes Clark. Another superb choice. Huntsman is another one mentioned that would be wonderful, but a dark horse of course. I'm not a fan of Rice. I don't think she would be a good choice for Secretary of State, especially when there are so many other better choices out there. Who do you want, if not Rice?

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Reply Anyone else want someone other than Rice as SOS? Who do you want? (Original post)
quinnox Nov 2012 OP
leveymg Nov 2012 #1
Agschmid Nov 2012 #41
northoftheborder Nov 2012 #2
FarPoint Nov 2012 #33
Cooley Hurd Nov 2012 #3
quinnox Nov 2012 #6
ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2012 #11
Agschmid Nov 2012 #42
godai Nov 2012 #15
Cooley Hurd Nov 2012 #23
godai Nov 2012 #30
Cooley Hurd Nov 2012 #35
godai Nov 2012 #4
MgtPA Nov 2012 #5
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #13
MgtPA Nov 2012 #21
Warren DeMontague Nov 2012 #7
Proud Public Servant Nov 2012 #8
quinnox Nov 2012 #9
Whisp Nov 2012 #19
Proud Public Servant Nov 2012 #25
quinnox Nov 2012 #32
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #10
quinnox Nov 2012 #12
eugene jones Nov 2012 #14
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #16
KamaAina Nov 2012 #17
kydo Nov 2012 #18
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #20
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2012 #22
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #36
SoCalDem Nov 2012 #24
Proud Public Servant Nov 2012 #26
LeftyLucy22 Nov 2012 #27
powergirl Nov 2012 #28
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #40
apples and oranges Nov 2012 #29
quinnox Nov 2012 #31
Agschmid Nov 2012 #43
juajen Nov 2012 #34
OmahaBlueDog Nov 2012 #37
Spirochete Nov 2012 #38
JDPriestly Nov 2012 #39

Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:37 PM

1. Kerry was the original choice, or so we've been told.

I can't of anyone better as the nation's top diplomat.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:30 PM

41. I'd like him to stay in MA. Don't want Brown pt. Deux.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:37 PM

2. Clark would be fantastic, also Kerry would be wonderful.

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Response to northoftheborder (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 05:27 PM

33. I'll go with Clark...

I don't like caving to the abusive Senators either....

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:41 PM

3. What's wrong with Susan Rice? You're not buying into the RW spin, are you?

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:45 PM

6. I just don't think she is a good pick for the job

 

and I have read she is personally abrasive and very disliked among many people who work in her sphere. Apparently, she rubs many people the wrong way. We don't need someone who has a non-people type personality as the top diplomat.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:01 PM

11. So, not going with the idea of Susan Rice is "buying into the RW spin" now? So, I'm

supposed to think like you...we are supposed to all think exactly alike or we're "buying into the RW spin"?

I have my own opinions, thank you.

And before you engage in the RW habit of arguing with me over my own opinion, I'll tell you now. If President Obama wants Susan Rice for his Sec of State, I will support him and her. Until then, I will feel free to have my own ideas about things even if it diverges from groupthink.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:31 PM

42. Considering Hillary has yet to leave the position, I agree this is premature. n/t

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:12 PM

15. Weakest responses fall back on...RW, Fox News etc. How about giving reasons for supporting Rice?

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Response to godai (Reply #15)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:13 PM

23. Well, the poster I responded to didn't give reasons why they aren't supporting her...

But, since you asked (and are apparently too lazy to look up on your own):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rice
<snip>
Rice was a three-sport athlete, student council president, and valedictorian at National Cathedral School in Washington, D.C., a private girls' day school . She played point guard in basketball and directed the offense, acquiring the nickname "Spo", short for "Sportin'".

Rice said that her parents taught her to "never use race as an excuse or advantage", and as a young girl she "dreamed of becoming the first U.S. Senator from the District of Columbia". She also held "lingering fears" that her accomplishments would be diminished by people who attributed them to affirmative action. After her father's death in 2011, she said, “He believed segregation had constrained him from being all he could be. The psychological hangover of that took him decades to overcome. His most fervent wish was that we not have that psychological baggage.”

Rice attended Stanford University, where she received a Truman Scholarship, and graduated with a B.A. in history in 1986. She was elected to Phi Beta Kappa.

Awarded a Rhodes Scholarship, Rice attended New College, Oxford, where she earned a M.Phil. in 1988 and D.Phil. in 1990. The Chatham House-British International Studies Association honored her dissertation entitled, "Commonwealth Initiative in Zimbabwe, 1979-1980: Implication for International Peacekeeping" as the UK's most distinguished in international relations.

Rice's classmates and professors OF Oxford included advocates of the role of the United Nations and international law (Sir Adam Roberts, Benedict Kingsbury), of global economic governance and international economic cooperation (Ngaire Woods, Donald Markwell), and of a firm stance against Russian authoritarianism (Michael McFaul).

<snip>

Rice was a foreign policy aide to Michael Dukakis during the 1988 presidential election. She was a management consultant at McKinsey & Company, the global management consulting firm, in the early 1990s. Rice worked in McKinsey's Toronto office for a time.

<snip>

Rice served in the Clinton administration in various capacities: at the National Security Council from 1993 to 1997; as Director for International Organizations and Peacekeeping from 1993 to 1995 and as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs from 1995 to 1997.

Rice acknowledged the many mistakes made at the time and felt that a debt needed repaying. The inability or failure of the Clinton administration to do anything about the genocide would inform her later views on possible military interventions. She would later say of the experience: "I swore to myself that if I ever faced such a crisis again, I would come down on the side of dramatic action, going down in flames if that was required."

Rice unfortunately supported the multinational force that invaded Zaire from Rwanda in 1996 and overthrew dictator Mobutu Sese Seko, saying privately that "Anything's better than Mobutu." Others criticized the U.S. complicity in the violation of the Congo's borders as destabilizing and dangerous.

In a 2002 op-ed piece in the Washington Post, former Ambassador to Sudan Timothy M. Carney and news contributor Mansoor Ijaz implicated Rice and counter-terrorism czar Richard Clarke in missing an opportunity to neutralize Osama bin Laden while he was still in Sudan in 1996. They write that Sudan and Secretary of State Madeleine Albright were ready to cooperate on intelligence potentially leading to Bin Laden, but that Rice and Clarke persuaded National Security Advisor Sandy Berger to overrule Albright. Similar allegations were made by Vanity Fair contributing editor David Rose and Richard Miniter, author of Losing Bin Laden, in a November 2003 interview with World.

While the writings of Carney, Ijaz, Rose and Miniter each claim that Sudan offered to turn Bin Laden over to the US and that Rice was central in the decision not to accept the offer, The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks on the United States (the 9-11 Commission) concluded in part "Sudan's minister of defense, Fatih Erwa, has claimed that Sudan offered to hand Bin Laden over to the United States. The Commission has found no credible evidence that this was so. Ambassador Carney had instructions only to push the Sudanese to expel Bin Laden. Ambassador Carney had no legal basis to ask for more from the Sudanese since, at the time, there was no indictment outstanding."

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright has been a longtime mentor and family friend to Rice. Albright urged Clinton to appoint Rice as Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs in 1997. Rice was not the first choice of Congressional Black Caucus leaders, who considered Rice a member of "Washington's assimilationist black elite". At a confirmation hearing chaired by Senator Jesse Helms, Rice, who attended the hearing along with her infant son, whom she was then nursing, made a great impression on Senators from both parties and "sailed through the confirmation process".

On July 7, 1998, while serving as Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs, Rice was a member of an American delegation to visit detained Nigerian President-Elect Basorun M.K.O. Abiola. During this meeting, Abiola suffered a fatal heart attack.

<snip>

Rice was managing director and principal at Intellibridge from 2001 to 2002. In 2002, she joined the Brookings Institution as senior fellow in the Foreign Policy program. At Brookings, she focused on U.S. foreign policy, weak and failing states, the implications of global poverty, and transnational threats to security.

During the 2004 presidential campaign, Rice served as a foreign policy adviser to John Kerry.

Rice went on leave from the Brookings Institution to serve as a senior foreign policy advisor to Senator Barack Obama in his 2008 presidential campaign. Rice took a disparaging view of Obama's Republican opponent in the campaign, John McCain, calling his policies "reckless" and dismissing the Arizona Senator's trip to Iraq as "strolling around the market in a flak jacket."

On November 5, 2008, Rice was named to the advisory board of the Obama-Biden Transition Project.

<snip>

On December 1, 2008, Rice was nominated by President-elect Obama to be the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, a position which he also upgraded to cabinet level. Rice is the second youngest and first African American woman US Representative to the UN.

The 2010 National Security Strategy was referred to by Rice as a "dramatic departure" from its predecessor.

In light of the 2011 Libyan civil war, Rice gave a statement following a White House meeting with President Obama and U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon as the United States increased pressure on the Libyan leader to give up power. Rice made clear that the United States and the international community saw only one choice for Gaddafi and his aides: step down from power or face significant consequences. Rice offered some of the toughest rhetoric toward Gaddafi, blasting his denials of atrocities against his own citizens as "frankly, delusional." Several UN diplomats said that in a closed door meeting on April 28 Rice's claims of Gaddafi's atrocities included the issuance of Viagra to loyalists in order to further terrorize the population with sexual violence. Rice praised the U.N. Security Council for the unanimous resolution it passed that called for the freezing of Libyan government assets and military aid to the country. It also referred all claims of abuse of the Libyan people directly to the International Criminal Court.

Together with National Security Council figure Samantha Power, who already supported military intervention, and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who came to support it, the three overcame internal opposition from Defense Secretary Robert Gates, security advisor Thomas Donilon, and counterterrorism advisor John Brennan, and the administration backed U.N. action to impose the no-fly zone and authorize other military actions as necessary. On March 17, 2011, Rice voted for United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 which sanctioned a Libyan no-fly zone. The UK, France and Lebanon voted for the resolution while Brazil, Germany and India, and permanent members China and Russia abstained. Rice and Clinton played major roles in getting the Security Council to approve this resolution, Clinton said that same day that establishing a no-fly zone over Libya would require the bombing of air defenses, as the U.S. seeks broad action to protect civilians fighting Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's regime. Rice said that "We are interested in a broad range of actions that will effectively protect civilians and increase the pressure on the Gaddafi regime to halt the killing and to allow the Libyan people to express themselves in their aspirations for the future freely and peacefully,"

On March 29, 2011, Rice said that the Obama administration had not ruled out arming the rebels fighting to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. In an interview on ABC's Good Morning America program, Rice said there was no indication that Gaddafi was prepared to leave power without continued pressure from the International community. Referring to reports that members of Gaddafi's inner circle were reaching out to the West, she said: "We will be more persuaded by actions rather than prospects or feelers. ... The message for Gaddafi and those closest to him is that history is not on their side. Time is not on their side. The pressure is mounting. In January 2012 after the Russian and Chinese veto of a UNSC resolution, Rice strongly condemned both countries for vetoing a resolution calling on Bashar al-Assad to step down. "They put a stake in the heart of efforts to resolve this conflict peacefully," Rice said on CNN. "The tragedy is for the people of Syria. We the United States are standing with the people of Syria. Russia and China are obviously with Assad." She added that "Russia and China will, I think, come to regret this action". "They have ... by their veto dramatically increased the risk of greater violence, and you've seen manifestations of that." In her words, "the United States is disgusted that a couple of members of this Council continue to prevent us from fulfilling our sole purpose."
</snip>


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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:55 PM

30. I'm lazy? You copied Wikipedia! I want your reasons...go n/t

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Response to godai (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 06:00 PM

35. That's more than you did...

...you couldn't even Google!

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:41 PM

4. I wish HRC would stay for a while.

Kerry is a good choice and wants it...Huntsman may not.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:42 PM

5. I like Kerry too, but I would hate to see Scott Brown weasling back into the Senate.

Any idea who would run against him?

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Response to MgtPA (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:05 PM

13. Deval Patrick MAY be able to beat Brown. I live in Mass and don't want another election fight, we

have had a lot more than the rest of the country. I don't like the odds of us holding a Senate seat if Kerry vacates now. I would rather Kerry stay put and when Clinton wins in 2016, take the SOS seat then. We will then be able to run Joe Kennedy III against ANY republican and win big, assuming Kennedy does well in Congress as his credentials seem to imply.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:58 PM

21. Joe Kennedy III in 2016

I like that!

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:47 PM

7. I hate to see us lose a Senate seat with Kerry.

I also dont like the idea of giving up a well qualified candidate over bullshit Benghazi bargle.

I dont have any other candidates at the top of my mind.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:54 PM

8. I work at State

And I can tell you that Rice, however brilliant she may be about diplomacy, does not have a great reputation as a manager or leader of people. So I'm a bit concerned about seeing her as Secretary.

The job should be Kerry's for the asking. If he doesn't want it, I've also thought about Wes Clark and John Huntsman. Richard Lugar, too, though you couldn't expect him to serve a full term.

The one name you don't hear a lot (okay, at all) is Gary Locke. I could see him here: with experience as a governor, a cabinet official, and an ambassador, he'd be a natural.

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Response to Proud Public Servant (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:56 PM

9. thanks for your thoughts

 

I thought the article I read sounded unflattering of Rice, and now we have an insider, and you confirmed that Rice doesn't have a good reputation there.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:23 PM

19. yeh, like everything is the truth here.

you truly wholly believe what that poster said?

I'm not calling him/her a liar but really.....

really?

What if another poster said just the opposite, that Rice was a good leader...
would you believe that as fully as you want to believe this particular post?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:32 PM

25. If another poster said the opposite

We could have an interesting -- and I would hope civil -- discussion/debate.

And I'm not dissing Rice, per se. A good Secretary should ideally be a number of things: a good leader, a good manager, a good diplomat, and a good representative of the President. Not all Secretaries do all those things equally well. From a perspective outside State, Secretaries who do the latter two things well, as Hillary does, tend to be highly regarded, even if they don't lead and/or manage well. From the perspective of having to work for the organization, though, leadership and management matter. That's why two of the most belovedly-remembered Secretaries among State rank-and-file -- who are overwhelmingly liberal Dems -- are Colin Powell and George Schultz; they really knew how to run an organization.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 05:06 PM

32. I have no reason to doubt it

 

not sure why you would. There are thousands of people who work at the state department, in various positions. It's not like we are talking about some kind of tiny super elite group like the Navy SEALS or something.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:59 PM

10. Susan Rice will be SOS. Fuck the rest. nt

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:05 PM

12. Whatever

 

I don't appreciate you saying that, John Kerry is a fine candidate for the job, as are others. Rice can't hold a candle to these names.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)


Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:11 PM

16. I wanted kerry but now i want him to pick a fight.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:18 PM

17. I'd go with Clark

Huntsman is that rarest of rarities, a sane repuke, but he's still a repuke.

Kerry would be outstanding, but picking him would give Scott Brown a chance to shamble out of his cold, dark grave.

edit: The estimable Will Pitt says that the Dem-dominated Mass. legislature could swiftly change the law to allow Gov. Patrick to appoint Kerry's successor. This was the practice, ironically, until 2004, when they changed the procedure from gubernatorial appointment to special election -- to prevent then-Gov. Mittwit from appointing a repuke to fill Kerry's seat were he to have become President. Such a move would, of course, be widely derided as nakedly partisan, especially on Faux.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:23 PM

18. I think there might be a bit of bait and switch

Let macinsane and his two lap dogs keep on the crazy about Rice. I would not be surprised if Kerry is nominated and Clark for Defense. I was telling my husband this on Thanksgiving.

I feel real sorry for Rice. But in the end she will come out on top no matter what the outcome. The 3 Knights who say Ni will for ever be known as the definition of the deranged and all 3 if they run again will face their most dreaded fear, an opponent in their primary. And I hope they lose.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 03:26 PM

20. Huntsman is a disloyal GOP assclown.

No problem with Rice or Kerry.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:06 PM

22. Dennis Kucinich, Susan Sarandon, or Noam Chomsky.

Or, somebody else who sees war as the very last resort and has enough sense to stay out of other countries affairs.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 06:15 PM

36. Yes, I agree. Wes Clark like many who have actually experienced war, was opposed to the Iraq

War. I think he would make an excellent choice for SOS. I once had a chance to ask him for his opinion of getting out of Iraq and how it could be done. I was very impressed with his answers which showed he had not only given it a lot of thought, but had come up with a plan. This was during the Bush years so there was no hope of a sane plan being considered.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:14 PM

24. Not Kerry

Perhaps we should ask Hillary to suggest someone from her staff..

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:34 PM

26. You SO don't want that. Trust me.

Or, if you won't trust me, remember that Hillary's staff is the #1 reason she's Secretary and not President.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:39 PM

27. Wes Clark, but it'll never happen. nt

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:44 PM

28. I want it to be John Kerry

which is the person I thought it was going to? Susan Rice just doesn't seem to have that something extra - noterieity or something - for SOS. I was surprised that she was selected. I am sure she is capable but there are so many others who are more qualified. I just don't get this choice. And I don't care what the McCain/Graham twins think either!

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Response to powergirl (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:29 PM

40. noteriety = notariety


no·to·ri·e·ty

noun, plural no·to·ri·e·ties.
1.
the state, quality, or character of being notorious or widely known: a craze for notoriety.
2.
Chiefly British. a notorious or celebrated person.
. . . .
Origin:
1585–95; < Medieval Latin nōtōrietās, equivalent to nōtōri(us) notorious + -etās, variant (after -i-) of -ity

Synonyms
1. disrepute, ill-repute, shame, infamy.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/notoriety

I don't think you meant notariety. In American use, it has a neative connotation.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 04:50 PM

29. So you want Jon Huntsman to get another high profile position right before the 2016

election? The guy who every non-crazy person thinks would have given Obama the hardest time had he been the nominee? Alrighty then...

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Response to apples and oranges (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 05:04 PM

31. I doubt Huntsman would be helped in terms of the GOP party

 

By all accounts, the GOP party is batshit insane right now. They would never nominate a level headed and moderate old school republican like Huntsman. Anyway, I'm kind of hoping Huntsman changes to a Democratic affiliation, and maybe a SOS appointment would make him more inclined or likely to do that. We need a leader like him on our team.

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Response to apples and oranges (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:36 PM

43. Pretty sure it would hurt Huntsman in the eyes of the GOP. n/t

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 05:30 PM

34. Wes Clark, if he would accept it. I believe it is crazy that John Kerry cannot be SOS

I do not believe Mass would send Scott Brown back to the Senate after he behaved so horribly when running against Elizabeth Warren.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 06:25 PM

37. Lugar

Yeah, he's GOP, but he and the Prez are on the same page on virtually all foreign policy issues. He has ultra solid foreign policy cred, and a deep understanding of State Department as an organization.

Not John Kerry. He'd be great, but I am not in the mood to give away Senate seats on the cheap.

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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 06:40 PM

38. George W Bush

If we won't arrest him here, we should send him to a country where they will. Of course - we'd have to replace him again, but that's ok...



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Response to quinnox (Original post)

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:26 PM

39. I want to see Rice serve as Secretary of State.

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