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Sun Nov 25, 2012, 05:13 PM

Sale of Guns Soar Following Election

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Grateful for Hope (a host of the General Discussion forum).

... Across the nation, ammo and guns sales are increasing and at this point are two times as high as they were at the same time last year. However, those rates still do not approach the gun sales that took place just after President Obama was elected to his first term in 2008.

Nevertheless, if the current pace keeps up by gun lovers, then ammo and weapons shortages could take place. Advocates for gun control say they cannot understand why there is a rush to buy extra ammo, magazines and firearms.

One gun control proponent said that Obama did not do anything during his first term in office to make people think he would be coming after them and their guns. Prior to taking office, Obama announced that he respected the right to bear arms in the constitution.

However, after over three dozen children in Chicago were killed back in 2007, Obama also said a ban should be restored on assault weapons. Following his 2008 election, ammo and firearms were stock piled and the increase in purchases caused a temporary shortage. Almost a year went by before supplies were more plentiful and prices returned to normal ...

http://www.dailypolitical.com/u-s-news/sale-of-guns-soar-following-election.htm

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 98 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sale of Guns Soar Following Election (Original post)
struggle4progress Nov 2012 OP
doc03 Nov 2012 #1
slackmaster Nov 2012 #93
safeinOhio Nov 2012 #2
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #3
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #5
Ghost in the Machine Nov 2012 #15
renie408 Nov 2012 #49
Ghost in the Machine Nov 2012 #94
PavePusher Nov 2012 #53
Ghost in the Machine Nov 2012 #95
slackmaster Nov 2012 #92
msongs Nov 2012 #4
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #6
Whovian Nov 2012 #8
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #9
doc03 Nov 2012 #11
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #17
doc03 Nov 2012 #23
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #25
glacierbay Nov 2012 #29
doc03 Nov 2012 #30
glacierbay Nov 2012 #34
doc03 Nov 2012 #37
glacierbay Nov 2012 #39
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #68
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #50
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #52
k2qb3 Nov 2012 #54
PavePusher Nov 2012 #66
Whovian Nov 2012 #16
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #18
safeinOhio Nov 2012 #28
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #32
safeinOhio Nov 2012 #42
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #43
safeinOhio Nov 2012 #67
Hoyt Nov 2012 #69
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #76
Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #21
Whovian Nov 2012 #22
Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #24
renie408 Nov 2012 #46
former-republican Nov 2012 #61
renie408 Nov 2012 #44
aikoaiko Nov 2012 #55
renie408 Nov 2012 #57
Kaleva Nov 2012 #62
renie408 Nov 2012 #65
PavePusher Nov 2012 #70
renie408 Nov 2012 #74
PavePusher Nov 2012 #77
Kaleva Nov 2012 #75
PavePusher Nov 2012 #78
renie408 Nov 2012 #80
PavePusher Nov 2012 #58
renie408 Nov 2012 #63
PavePusher Nov 2012 #64
renie408 Nov 2012 #71
PavePusher Nov 2012 #73
bobclark86 Nov 2012 #82
renie408 Nov 2012 #85
cleanhippie Nov 2012 #19
Berserker Nov 2012 #35
progressoid Nov 2012 #7
dembotoz Nov 2012 #10
sarcasmo Nov 2012 #12
k2qb3 Nov 2012 #14
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #36
k2qb3 Nov 2012 #13
cleanhippie Nov 2012 #20
safeinOhio Nov 2012 #45
k2qb3 Nov 2012 #48
ErikJ Nov 2012 #26
renie408 Nov 2012 #47
PavePusher Nov 2012 #59
ErikJ Nov 2012 #91
lindysalsagal Nov 2012 #96
sigmasix Nov 2012 #89
MindandSoul Nov 2012 #27
Zoeisright Nov 2012 #31
doc03 Nov 2012 #33
-..__... Nov 2012 #38
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #40
marmar Nov 2012 #41
Fla_Democrat Nov 2012 #51
B Calm Nov 2012 #56
PavePusher Nov 2012 #72
B Calm Nov 2012 #81
PavePusher Nov 2012 #84
former-republican Nov 2012 #79
spanone Nov 2012 #60
X_Digger Nov 2012 #83
Initech Nov 2012 #86
kentauros Nov 2012 #87
Skittles Nov 2012 #88
slackmaster Nov 2012 #90
aandegoons Nov 2012 #97
Grateful for Hope Nov 2012 #98

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 05:30 PM

1. Democrats are always good for the firearms industry and NRA

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Response to doc03 (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 02:50 AM

93. ...and for the economy in general

 

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 06:12 PM

2. I look for the gun bubble to burst,

just like any other panic buying base on fear. Tulips, housing, guns. The current buying is about military type weapons and the bullets they shoot. Traditional hunting firearms are in normal supply and their prices have not doubled like the ones being bought up. Handguns sales are also going up while street crime is going down. Sure, there is a trill in things going bang, but the cost of bullets can take a lot of that fun away. By the 3rd year of Obama's 2nd term, look for prices to drop when the fear goes away.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 06:30 PM

3. So you are forecasting several more years of this bubble?

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 06:54 PM

5. Prices did come down by year 3 of Obama's first term, but no one considered it a burst bubble


What do you think will be different?

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:05 PM

15. "Traditional hunting firearms are in normal supply and their prices have not doubled like the ones..

...being bought up."

Really?? In 1998, I bought a *used* Marlin 30-30, complete with a scope and sling.... for $125. Three years ago, when my son decided he wanted to start deer hunting, we shopped around for some different prices. He wanted a Marlin 30-30, just like mine, because mine had been such a good gun. They were over $500 brand new, with no scope, no sling, just a basic lever action rifle. This price was consistent between Wal-Mart, K-Mart and several gun shops. I finally found him a used one, through a friend of mine, in almost new condition, with the scope and sling.... and paid $425 for it!!

As for "military type weapons and the bullets they shoot", in 1998 I also bought a Russian SKS, with all matching serial numbers, factory wooden stock, factory 10 round clip and still had the bayonet attached. It was used in Vietnam. I paid $125 for that, too. The cheap Chinese Norincos, which were shitty, mass produced pieces of crap, could be bought for $60 each all day, every day! Today, that Russian model is worth over $500, and the Chinese crap sell for around $200.

I recently acquired a 1958 Romanian Military issue SKS. Apparently they are pretty rare in the U.S., according to a gun dealer I know. I could have sold it two weeks ago for $700, but I don't really want to part with it right now:



As you can see, it has been altered a little bit Tapco composite stock with an adjustable butt stock, a 20 round clip and a flash suppressor (which is a hindrance and I'm thinking about removing because it won't allow the bayonet to open and slide over the end of the barrel, locking it in place.)

Now, getting back to those "military type weapons and the bullets they shoot", I also own a Remington 742 Woodsmaster 30-06. A box of 20 shells for it is over $25. A box of 20 shells for the 30-30's is almost $20. I can go to Wal-Mart and buy a box of 20 shells for the SKS, which is a 7.62 x 39... for $4.97! Yes, you read that right.. $4.97! They are full metal jacket with a lead core. I still have a box of shells for the Russian model I bought in 1998, which are full metal jacket with a *steel* core (ie: Armor Piercing), and the price tag on them was.. $5.00!

Let this post also be a Public Service Reminder to lurking freepers and/or teabaggers: Not ALL of us Liberals are anti-gun, unarmed and/or Pacifists. When you start talking all of your "war" and "rounding up Liberals" bullshit, just be VERY CAREFUL about what you ask for, because you just *might* get it.

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:58 PM

49. I am asking an honest question here...

Why? What is the attraction of assault weapons? I don't have the 'gun' thing. Logically, I find guns to be a problem in this country. Personally, I don't care. Nobody in my immediate family hunts, but hunting doesn't bother me. I understand that other people enjoy it. Its kind of like golf. You couldn't pay me to play golf, but I get that other people get something out of it.

But this thing with the guns that can shoot a bazillion bullets a minute...what is that? That doesn't make realistic sense for self-protection, you can't hunt with them unless you are trying to process your meat into hamburger as you kill it and it allows whackos to wander into crowded movie theaters and kill large numbers of people quickly. In the interests of making it harder on the whackos, wouldn't you be OK with sticking to handguns and hunting guns?

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Response to renie408 (Reply #49)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 03:42 AM

94. For me, personally, I just happen to enjoy shooting. I grew up around guns, was taught gun safety at

a very young age. I got my first BB gun at 5 years old, my first .22 at 7 years old. Some of my fondest memories with my dad was when we would go out target shooting. My mom and older sister always went too. There was a place west of Miami, on the Tamiami Trail, called "the arches" because there were two big arches that were on a dirt road, which ran along a canal. It was supposed to have been an industrial park, but for some reason or other the project was cancelled. *Everybody* went there to target shoot, mainly tossing bottles in the water and shooting them. Mom and my older sister would shoot once in a while, but not always. Those were some great weekends that I sit here right now, 42 years later, and remember like yesterday.

Anyways, time moved on, dad got more busy with work, we had a canal right across the street, and I wound up going fishing almost every day with my grandmother, who lived with us. The .22 went in my dads closet, but I still had my BB gun and enjoyed target shooting in our back yard. I never shot birds or squirrels, which were abundant then, because I was always taught to never shoot anything I wasn't going to eat. Still had gun safety drilled into my head on an almost daily basis. Guns WEREN'T TOYS, they could hurt or kill someone.

When I was 13, we moved from Miami to Tennessee, and had some acreage. I was then allowed to keep my .22 in my room, and take it out anytime I wanted to, to target shoot. I still had never been hunting, but with the woods all around us, I soon found myself wanting to go. When I was 15, my best friend from school invited me to goo deer hunting with him and his dad. Since all I had was a .22, he let me use his shotgun while he used his 30-06. I was right beside him when we both saw a deer at the same time. It was too far away for the shotgun, so he got to shoot it with the 30-06. It was his first deer, and the first time I had ever even *seen* a deer, besides on TV. My friend taught me that day how to field dress a deer, and after it was taken to the processor he split the meat with me. That was some delicious meat, and I was hooked on deer hunting. My dad got me an 8mm Mauser from my uncle, who was a gunsmith and owned a gun shop. It was an old German military rifle, but my uncle had customized the stock on it and it was a pretty cool looking gun.

As for the assault rifle pictured, I just like the way it looks, and it is fun to target shoot with. I would never use it for deer hunting, it doesn't have the knock-down power of a 30-30 or 30-06. If I'm going to shoot a deer, I want a clean kill, one shot and it's down.

The bottom line? Some people like/collect old cars, or fast cars, some collect motorcycles, guitars, wine, old records or whatever floats their boats. I just happen to like older guns, so that's what I collect. Sometimes I don't keep them long, I'll sell them, or trade for something else. I couldn't tell you exactly how many I've bought, sold and/or traded just this year alone.

Peace,

Ghost



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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:08 PM

53. Bu-bu-buu-but.....

 

That SKS is a super-duper high power assault rifle killing machine!!1!11!! (Even though is only as powerful as that .30-30, which is considered at the bottom end of ballistics for deer hunting and functions no differently than any other semi-auto rifle used in hunting for over 100 years.)

So There!

(P.S. No-one needs a bayonet for deer hunting. You must be a hidden criminal, waiting to do drive-by stickings.....)

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #53)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 04:36 AM

95. LOL! See my post above about the ballistics...

I wouldn't use it for deer hunting, as it lacks knock-down power with its mere 122 grain round. I use 150 grains for the 30-30, which is a GREAT "brush gun" for hunting in pine thickets and some denser hardwood stands, and 180 grain loads for longer shots with the 30-06 when hunting power lines or across open fields. I've got 15 acres of my own, which has both, hence having a choice of weapons to hunt with.

Funny story... my daughter & son in law live two houses down from me, on their own 3 acres, but are the other side of the street and have no woods. The son in laws sister & her boyfriend just came up from South Georgia for Thanksgiving. I was advised that the boyfriend would love to deer hunting while he was here, and had even brought his gun. When I met him, I said "so, I hear you want to do some hunting while you're here?" He replied "yes sir, I would LOVE to do that! This is the first time I've ever seen mountains and stuff, I'm used to the flat lands of back home." I looked at him and said "you know we hunt a little different up here, right?" He says "how's that?" I tell him "we wait up in the tree stands until a deer is right under us, then we just jump on him with a knife and pair of brass knuckles and beat the fucker down!" He got a funny look ok his face and started stammering "I..I... I just don't think I could do that!".... to which I just started laughing and told him "sure, we'll do some hunting if you want to go. I have 15 acres of my own, and permission from everyone on my side of the street to hunt their properties too." We all hunt up here, and all give each other permission to hunt on our properties, so it works out well. It's almost like having our own little hunting club here. We try to let each other know when we're going to be hunting, and where, so we don't accidentally walk up on each other and spook a deer or something..

Peace,

Ghost

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 02:23 AM

92. That is precisely what we should NOT want to see happening. There is no "gun bubble"...

 

...(See reply #83 below) but rather an improvement in the economy, which is very good news.

People spend more on discretionary purchases of all kinds when they feel they have more disposable income.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 06:45 PM

4. nothing like a black president to jack up gun sales in the NRA crowd nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:00 PM

6. Or a President of any color who said he'd like to reintroduce the AWB during a debate.


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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:05 PM

8. Face it, gun nutz are simpy nuts.

 

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Response to Whovian (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:11 PM

9. Do you think its nuts to believe our President when he says he wants to reintroduce the AWB?



I'm hoping that he debate utterance on reintroducing the AWB was just another bone to keep the anti-gun crowd happy and he will continue to abandon (even obstruct) it in practice.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:57 PM

11. I have several guns and have hunted all my life.

During the AWB I was never denied buying any gun or lost any gun. If people want to play with assault weapons you can join the army.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:19 PM

17. I didn't know there were any of you left.


That's a classic Fudd response and I haven't heard that in a long time.

I understand that there are many hunters who enjoy using their bolt action rifles (based on military designs from around the late 1800s to 1940s) and have no interest in semi-auto rifles, but you have to admit that many hunters, recreational shooters, and competition shooters prefer semi-automatic rifles these days.

As far as joining the Army to shoot those firearms -- they Army generally doesn't issue semi-automatic rifles so that's a no go.


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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:39 PM

23. The army doesn't issue semi-auto rifles? It's been a long time

since I was there but I doubt they issue full autos even today.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:46 PM

25. I should clarify, mostly not the ones that are covered under a AWB.


To my knowledge they are not issuing semi-auto AK style weapons, ARs, tec-9s, MP5s, UZIs, etc.

Some of the larger caliber Barrett's and reissued M14w are exceptions. There may be others.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #23)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:49 PM

29. The basic US Military issue battle rifle

 

is not semi auto, it's a select fire rifle.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #29)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:53 PM

30. What does select fire mean (semi-auto or full auto?)

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Response to doc03 (Reply #30)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:58 PM

34. Select fire means

 

either semi auto or 3 round burst, in Vietnam, my M-16A1 was either semi auto or full auto, which we liked to call rock and roll, no 3 round burst option. I believe the last military issued semi auto battle rifle was the M-1 Garand which held 8 rounds and was a true semi auto.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:04 PM

37. Not true I was in the army 68-70 and was issued a M-14 semi auto, I

also qualified on the M-16 semi-auto and I carried a 1911 45 cal. semi auto at times. There was no select fire option on any of them.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #37)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:15 PM

39. The M-16 is not and never was semi auto

 

you're thinking of the AR-15

The M16 (officially Rifle, Caliber 5.56 mm, M16) is the United States military designation for the AR-15 rifle adapted for semi-automatic, three-round burst and full-automatic fire. Colt purchased the rights to the AR-15 from ArmaLite, and currently uses that designation only for semi-automatic versions of the rifle. The M16 fires the 5.5645mm NATO cartridge. The rifle entered United States Army service and was deployed for jungle warfare operations in South Vietnam in 1963, becoming the U.S. military's standard service rifle of the Vietnam War by 1969, replacing the M14 rifle in that role. The U.S. Army retained the M14 in CONUS, Europe, and South Korea until 1970. Since the Vietnam War, the M16 rifle family has been the primary service rifle of the U.S. armed forces.

The M16 has also been widely adopted by other militaries around the world. Total worldwide production of M16-style weapons since the design's inception has been approximately 8 million, making it the most-produced firearm of its caliber. In 2010, the M16 began to be phased out in the U.S. Army and is being replaced by the M4 carbine, which is itself a shortened derivative of the M16A2
he AR-15 which is semi auto only. The M-14 was also a select fire battle rifle.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle


M14 rifle, formally the United States Rifle, 7.62 mm, M14, is an American selective fire automatic rifle that fires 7.6251mm NATO (.308 Winchester) ammunition. It was the standard issue U.S. rifle from 1959 to 1970. The M14 was used for U.S. Army and Marine Corps basic and advanced individual training, and was the standard issue infantry rifle for U.S. military personnel in the Contiguous United States, Europe, and South Korea, until it was replaced by the M16 rifle, in 1970. The rifle remains in limited front line service within all branches of the U.S. military. It is also used as a ceremonial weapon by honor guards, color guards, drill teams, ceremonial guards, and the like.

The M14 rifle was also the last American "battle rifle" (weapons that fire full-power rifle ammunition, such as the 7.6251mm) issued in quantity to U.S. military personnel. The M14 also provides the basis for the M21 and M25 sniper rifles.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:23 PM

68. "The M-14 was also a select fire battle rifle." Some were. Some weren't.

 

For at least part of the time, only one out of four M-14s issued in the Marine Corps had the select fire option.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #37)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:58 PM

50. There may not have been a select fire option on your M-14, but there was a select fire option on

 

many of the M-14s issued to the Marine Corps. The ones with the select fire were issued to replace the BARs.

Unless I'm mistaken, at least some of the M-14s issued to the 101st also had the select fire option.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:08 PM

52. The M-14 did not have a 3-round burst option. If you had a full-auto option, you simply took

 

Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2012, 12:04 AM - Edit history (1)

your finger off the trigger.

If you didn't take your finger off the trigger after 3 rounds, it became an anti-aircraft weapon.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:09 PM

54. Here's the thing...

During the AWB there was absolutely zero effect on the availability of assault weapons.

You could still buy the same guns minus the bayonet lugs, functionally identical.

You could still buy grandfathered rifles, for more money.

And you could still buy rifles that were identical to the grandfathered rifles in all but serial number, cheapr than either of the other options, but it was a federal felony to own one.

The only thing the AWB did was put a lot of people in legal jeopardy for no reason, get a lot of guns chopped up for no reason, and sell millions of assault weapons.

Try to implement an effective ban today and you'll start a war, it's insane.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:11 PM

16. Personally I would be tickled pink if he outlawed handgun ownership

 

for civilians in the US. But that's just me.

Too many people getting killed in fits of violence and depression and they are such an impulsive way to end life. Other than that, I really can't think of a positive thing about them... Oh, WAIT! Target shooting, fending off the hordes of evildoers, saving the wayward mistress, gunning down those guys at the OK corral, being Aaron Burr....

Sorry, I think of gunnutz the same way I do of religious people: Folks who believe in myths and fairy tales.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:23 PM

18. I understand and I appreciate your candidness.


Somewhere in between total bans and no regulation we can find reasonable compromises.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:49 PM

28. I'm with you on that.

I've hunted all of my life and am a legal gun owner. The last thing in the world I ever want to do is kill another human, even if that person was the lowest life on the planet. That is not saying I wouldn't, only it'd be the last option for me.

I also realize that every one has their own opinion and those opinions are based on life experiences and we all have our own histories. Calling those that have a different experience nuts, most likely does little to solve anything. Not that I haven't slung some words like that, but only after being personally attacked myself for my ideas. The lesson we should learn is that personal attacks do little for either side.

My biggest fear is that the growth of armed, hate driven groups does pose a problem for the majority of peace loving folks. That is why I'm in favor of "well regulated militias". About the only thing I can really do, and I do, is donate to the SPLC, who do us a great favor by monitoring these groups.

Peace

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:58 PM

32. You've hunted all your life and "everyone has their own opinion"? My opinion is that experienced

 

shooters do not refer to cartridges as bullets (cf #2), but anti-gunners do.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #32)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:40 PM

42. You lack a lot

of experience. I've seen the term "bullets" used in the NRA magazine The American Rifleman. I also notice you can't resist personal attacks in your comments, even when none were directed at you.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #42)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:47 PM

43. The "term 'bullets' was used in" an "NRA magazine"? Cartridges are cartridges. Bullets are bullets.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:22 PM

67. Guns are guns and

Rifles are rifles.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:25 PM

69. Maybe you too could participate by not locking threads that criticize your gun fetish or whatever

prefer to call it. At least don't claim other reasons for locking threads that reflect badly on guns in our society. Be candid.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #69)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:34 PM

76. When I lock a thread as host it is because a clear majority of hosts supported the lock

And I look for more responses after a lock to see if additional hosts disagree. I would unlock if a majority of subsequent responses disagreed.

GD Statement of Purpose
Discuss politics, issues, and current events. No posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports unless there is really big news. No conspiracy theories. No whining about DU.


And that's all I'll say about that in this thread.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:34 PM

21. So its ok to trample on a right as long as you personally don't like it?

 

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Response to Pacafishmate (Reply #21)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:39 PM

22. A right that has been misconstrued and abused. YES.

 

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Response to Whovian (Reply #22)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:44 PM

24. Please elaborate.

 

I agree that the second is misconstrued and abused in the sense that the only constitutional gun control is a background check.

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Response to Pacafishmate (Reply #24)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:48 PM

46. Ohhhh...I think I am seeing a trend here.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:15 PM

61. Yea let the government call a confiscation on all guns instead.

 

I'm sure that would go over well in this country.





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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:47 PM

44. I think it is nuts to think you need an assault weapon.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #44)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:10 PM

55. I can see why some people think that.


Depending on the situation, however, an AR15 might be an ideal choice.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #55)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:13 PM

57. Dude, where do you live? Or who are you hanging out with??

Cause I am 48 and have never felt the need for so much as a BB gun. I am thinking that any time a what-the-hell-ever-it-is seems like the ideal choice, you need to be making some lifestyle changes.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #57)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:17 PM

62. The AR-15 is a very good hunting gun for small game

You may have more of an issue with magazine capacity then with the gun itself.

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Response to Kaleva (Reply #62)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:22 PM

65. Ok, if you mean I have a problem with the ability to shoot

a bunch of times really quickly...yeah, that.

As previously mentioned, I do not have the 'gun' thing, so I probably have a fairly simplistic idea of what various guns do. Rifles hunt big things, shotguns hunt groups of small things (right?), pistols shoot people who break into your house. That's about as far as I get.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #70)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:31 PM

74. If you would get over your defensiveness you might see that I am asking a sincere question here.

But I imagine that if you could get over your defensiveness in general, you probably wouldn't feel the need for the big gun.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #74)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:35 PM

77. You are dodging again. How am I being defensive?

 

You are the one who won't, or can't, answer a rather simple question, even when offered pictoral and technical illustrations.

Oh, and your Internet Psychology Licence is null and void outside your own home. FYI...

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Response to renie408 (Reply #65)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:33 PM

75. In some parts of lower Michigan, one can only hunt deer with a handgun or shotgun

But i think the issue of magazine capacity is a legit one. I for one do not see the reason for large capacity magazines. They may be fun to shoot at a firing range but that's about it. With bump firing, a person armed with a semi-auto rifle and large capacity magazines, one has something close to a machine gun.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #57)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:39 PM

78. Why do you think (as you are so clearly insinuating) that s/he has any criminal intent...

 

or fear of attack?

AR-15's are useful for many purposes. They are very popular in a variety of competition shooting, for instance.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #78)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:47 PM

80. LOL

Do you have anything remotely resembling a sense of humor? And why are YOU taking offense with the person I was talking to obviously didn't?

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Response to renie408 (Reply #44)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:13 PM

58. What is an "assault weapon"? n/t

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #58)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:18 PM

63. One would assume, given the name, that it is a weapon designed to 'assault'; as opposed

to a gun designed to hunt or for simpler protection.

From the images I can find on Google, assault weapons do not appear to be realistic for self-defense nor hunting. For what practical purposes do you use your assault weapons?

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Response to renie408 (Reply #63)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:20 PM

64. You have dodged the question.

 

What are the defining features of an "assault weapon", what makes them unsuitable for defense or hunting?

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #64)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:26 PM

71. Well, they are big.

That is less practical for self defense than something like a pistol that you can carry more handily.

As for hunting, shit if I know. But if a rifle or whatever works, WHY do you NEED an assault weapon? Why do you need semi-automatic capability in a hunting situation? Serious question. I know zero about hunting. I literally do not understand the necessity in normal every day life for being able to shoot lots of bullets really fast.

Or two miles. I have also always wondered about that, too. Why would an ordinary person need a gun that can shoot really far?

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Response to renie408 (Reply #71)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:31 PM

73. Since you can't (or won't) define what you mean by "assault weapon", there's no way to discuss...

 

Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2012, 12:07 AM - Edit history (1)

what would make one suitable or unsuitable for any particular activity. See my post here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1882634

And as a hint, what I'm betting you mean as "assault weapons" are not particularly large. They are generally smaller and lighter than "traditional" bolt-action rifles or any shotgun.

Edit:
Or two miles. I have also always wondered about that, too. Why would an ordinary person need a gun that can shoot really far?

Well, first define (yeah, that task again) what you mean by "really far". No-one shoots 2 miles with any intent (or hope) of hitting anything, even highly trained snipers.

But here are a few reasons for being able to shoot accurately at ranges of up to 1000 yards or more:
1. Competition shooting.
2. Long range hunting (very rare).
3. Long range defense (sounds a bit counter-intuitive, but it happens).
4. Long range attack (in case the ultimate purpose of the Second Amendment ever becomes neccesary {and pray it doesn't}).

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Response to renie408 (Reply #71)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:52 PM

82. I'll help you out some...

"Well, they are bit. That is less practical for self defense."

Umm... bigger things (that go into the shoulder) offer better accuracy (you can't miss fast enough to stop an attacker). They also double as a club when empty.

For hunting, semi-auto (or as they were originally called, "self-loading") allows for faster follow-up shots. You apparently have never seen a hunter take more than one shot. Sometimes crap happens and you need to shoot a second time.

BTW, just because something is a semi-auto doesn't mean it fires "lots of bullets really fast." You mean full-auto, which has been regulated by the feds since the 1920s and a full-auto AR-15 costs more than a mid-size car (like $20,000 or more) and require a federal tax stamp, a long background check and are illegal in many states (like New York... but that never stopped the gangsters or gang-bangers). Most self-loading AR-15-type rifles cost between $600 to $1,000.

"Or two miles."

I assume you're talking about a .50 BMG round. Those have never been part of an AWB.



The one on the far right (the little one) is what I use for squirrel hunting. The second and third from right are what an AR-15 and AK copy fire (respectively). The next two go in bolt-action deer and elk rifles. Effective range of the "evil assault weaponz" (as in a high probability of a one-shot kill on something like a deer) is about 100 yards. The "deer rifle" rounds are 200 to 400 yards.

The big bad@ss on the left is the .50 BMG. It's used for lots of things... like shooting the engine blocks out of parked cars, or hitting long-distance targets (like people attacking your friends when you're too far away for the other rounds). Of course, to do so, you need to be a trained sniper not the run-of-the-mill basic training, but full-fledged sniper. It's like throwing a bb at the edge of a piece of paper across a basketball court.

Some anti-gun people scream a 50 BMG can be used for shooting down airplanes, but the statistical probability of doing so without a machine gun is virtually nil. Don't believe me? Then why do trap shooters, who are shooting at something traveling 30 mph, need 100 pellets in a shotgun shell to hit their target (and few get perfect scores)? Heck, ask the B-17 bomber gunners from WWII why they needed fighter escorts even though each B-17 had 13 machine guns on board.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #82)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 12:27 AM

85. Awhile back in our area...

a little girl swimming in a local pool was killed by a rifle that had been shot at a homemade firing range that was two miles away. Last summer, one of my neighbor's horses was shot and killed by a rifle fired from 3/4 of a mile away. They were screwing around on a Sunday afternoon and firing at some trees. They missed. This was a very beloved 20 year old horse minding its own business and eating grass in their pasture. Not all guns that can fire two miles are handled by trained snipers.

I guess it depends on your definition of 'lots of bullets really fast'. The guy in Aurora, Colorado had guns equipped with magazines that could fire 50-60 times per minute. That's lots of bullets really fast. And I would be really interested in the explanation for why you would ever need that capacity. You know, short of wanting to shoot up a movie theater. That's all I asked. Why? Why does anybody need a gun that can fire that rapidly?

I still haven't gotten an answer.

You do get that I and the people like me are not the ones endangering your sport, right? If idgets wouldn't fuck up and miss and shoot innocent children and animals from miles away and whackos wouldn't walk into grocery stores and movie theaters and shoot everybody in sight, nobody would give two shits about this. Whether you recognize it or not, gun control will actually wind up SAVING gun ownership; not eliminating it. Because sooner or later, whackos are going to do their thing a little too frequently for even the NRA to gloss over. And then you guys are going to be in a real fight because you will be dealing with backlash. I imagine there is some point when the number of guns out there corresponds with the number of whackos that these kinds of shootings are going to get more frequent than even you might be comfortable trying to rationalize. At that point, anti-gun people are going to get their toe in the door. And it is all going to be downhill for you guys from there.

It's not me you should be fighting with. It's the whackos and the idgets. THEY are the ones that are going to get your hobby in trouble.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:23 PM

19. Face it, anti-gun nuts are simply nuts.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #8)


Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:03 PM

7. Oh no! "Almost a year went by before supplies were more plentiful!"

How will we defend our freedoms!!!!11!11

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:56 PM

10. i know several gun nuts who bought really big 4 years ago

would imagine they are doing the same thing again...


does ammo go stale???

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 07:58 PM

12. Humidity can make the brass corrode and go bad.

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Response to sarcasmo (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:04 PM

14. People still shoot WWII surplus ammo.

If it's stored halfway decently it lasts a long time.

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:00 PM

36. Yes, but it can take more than a decade.

 

The primers on old cartridges can become unreliable.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:03 PM

13. Gun control advocates have sold more guns than anything else.

Democratic support for assault weapons bans have been the primary driver of assault weapon sales for 20 years now, and a huge political headwind for the Democratic agenda.

It's the most counterproductive platform plank ever.

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Response to k2qb3 (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:25 PM

20. ^^^THIS^^^

Too bad the anti-gun nuts are impervious to facts.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:47 PM

45. Fact is,

Obama won by a landslide while calling for AWB, while mitt was supported by the NRA and lost by over 100 EC votes.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #45)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:56 PM

48. Sure...

And if the party publicly dropped the issue they'd have won the house too.

It's a very costly plank, that gets even more costly if it's actualy implemented.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:46 PM

26. More likely to use them for suicide.

The oft cited Kellermann paper found a homeowner's gun was 43 times more likely to kill a family member, friend, or acquaintence, than it was used to kill someone in self-defense. Kellermann stated, "for every case of self-protection homicide involving a firearm kept in the home, there were 1.3 accidental deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides involving firearms."

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 10:50 PM

47. Which is why I am OK with gun nuts keeping their guns.

Except that I am friends and acquaintances with so many of them.

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #26)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:15 PM

59. Much debunked. You can look this up. n/t

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #59)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 02:22 AM

91. I know 2 gun owners who killed themselves.

A close relative and a childhood friend. Im kind of a news junkie and hardly ever hear of guns used in self defense. Mostly in self-offense.
And my sister was grazed by a bullet in her own house when her son accidentally fired it.

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #91)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 04:46 AM

96. You are why I am anti-gun, at least within cities.

People who live out in the boondocks have legit reasons for a rifle, when there is wildlife all around you, and hunting makes some sense.

But it cities, it's just nuts. Just plain nuts.

I have always said we should remove guns from cities. Keep them locked up in rural federal sporting facilities. Sign it out, go shoot bambi, bring it back. Register the guns and ammo so we can trace everything when a crime occurs.

Internet gun sales and Walmart gun sales just make me sick.

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Response to ErikJ (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 02:14 AM

89. wasnt this the NRA's own study?

This fact alone seems to say something about certain individuals that claim to be just following common sense...

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:48 PM

27. So what? Wasn't it exactly the same trend in 2008?

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:54 PM

31. Teh stupid. It hurts.

Fucking nutso people.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:58 PM

33. Some of these guys apparently eat, sleep, think,

fantasize about guns 24/7. The only time I ever see a couple of them is when there is a post with the word gun in it then they come out of the woodwork.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:09 PM

38. The buying frenzy is crazy...

 

but, on the positive side, it provides a large infusion of cash to a worthy industry that can use it for developing even newer models of firearms.

The additional revenue also means even more money that can be spent defeating anti-gun legislation while promoting pro-2nd amendment legislation.

Bottom line... it's money well spent.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:21 PM

40. Lots of insecure losers out there.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:25 PM

41. Armed to the teeth and dumb as a Victoria Jackson doll.

nt

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:03 PM

51. No one is that stupid

"Advocates for gun control say they cannot understand why there is a rush to buy extra ammo, magazines and firearms. "

Really? Can't figure that one out?







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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:11 PM

56. My neighbor across the road is

driving me fucking insane. Every damn day he's out in his back yard firing numerous rounds through one of his many assault rifles. Real gun nut! I don't have a problem with his guns, but I work nights and sleep during the day. Thinking about getting a tracfone (with a number he wouldn't recognize as me calling) and call him all night long and hanging up when he answers.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #56)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:27 PM

72. Have you tried talking to him?

 

That is something we Democrats do.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #72)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:48 PM

81. He knows I work nights and so

does the guy down the road. My neighbor down the road was in his pjs out in his front yard the other day and firing his 12 gauge into the air towards the gun nut house. The gun nut finally got the message and went inside.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #81)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 12:10 AM

84. Sounds like you have....

 

a. one neighbor who is either inconsiderate, or doesn't actually know how much sound is getting to you. If you haven't talked to him about the noise, he may not actually know that it disturbs you.

b. one neighbor who is recklessly dangerous and idiotic. S/he needs the police called on them next time they do that, but I'd try talking to them first as well.

YMMV.

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Response to B Calm (Reply #56)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:41 PM

79. soft foam ear plugs would work

 

I used them when working 3rd shift with two preschool children in the house.
It was impossible for my wife to keep them quiet while I slept.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:15 PM

60. ...again...from 2008

Gun sales surge after Obama's election
GUN LAWS


November 11, 2008|From Kevin Bohn CNN Senior Producer

Bernie Conatser has never seen business this good.

The owner of a gun shop in the Washington suburb of Manassas, Virginia, Conatser said sales have doubled or tripled since this time last year.

On Saturday, he said, he did as much business as he would normally do in a week.

"I have been in business for 12 years, and I was here for Y2K, September 11, Katrina," Conatser said, as a steady stream of customers browsed what remained of his stock. "And all of those were big events, and we did notice a spike in business, but nothing on the order of what we are seeing right now."

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-11-11/justice/obama.gun.sales_1_gun-shop-brady-campaign-gun-owner?_s=PM:CRIME

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:54 PM

83. *yawn* bad math..

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/1998_2012_Monthly_Yearly_Totals%201.pdf?

Average year-over-year for the same month increase in gun sales has held steady at 12-14%. Variation between months is more prevalent than any particular year- more guns are bought in the fall (hunting, christmas, etc) than in the spring.

Each year (including 2008), we buy about 13% more guns than the previous year.

And yet, crime in general, and specifically crime with guns, is at lows not seen since the late 60's (depending on which crime you measure.)

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 12:44 AM

86. The gun industry should start thanking Obama for the increased sales.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 12:53 AM

87. I want to see the sale of waterguns soar,

or maybe that should be "see water balloons soar"

RBSS = Right to Bear Super-Soakers

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 01:31 AM

88. gun nuts are such fucking cowards

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 02:21 AM

90. The election is not the issue. In a few days we'll be seeing news reports of increased sales...

 

for many kinds of discretionary or luxury items. The Black Friday extended weekend has been great for retailers of all kinds this year. When that happens, the moot nature of this story will be obvious.

When you peel away the smoke and mirrors it will become clear that two real factors are at play here:

- The holiday sales uptick, which a cursory check of archived news shows happens ever year, and

- An improvement in the state of the economy. Fewer people are unemployed than in recent years. Business is picking up.

People buy more optional stuff between Halloween and Christmas, and when they have more money to spend. The general election happened to occur during that time period, which it always does.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 05:08 AM

97. Well the bed wetters are afraid.

Who could not foresee this?

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Nov 26, 2012, 05:35 AM

98. While this is related to the election, it is a gun thread.

Please consider reposting this in the Guns Forum. Locking.

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