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Sat Nov 24, 2012, 09:34 PM

What? NAFTA: The Sequel?

This worries me. Especially when many of us worked our ass off to re-elect Obama and fight off corporate crap like this.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/441-occupy/14699-focus-why-so-secretive-the-trans-pacific-partnership

Dubbed by many as "NAFTA on steroids" and a "corporate coup," only two of the TPP's 26 chapters actually have anything to do with trade. Most of it grants far-reaching new rights and privileges to corporations, specifically related to intellectual property rights (copyright and patent laws), as well as constraints on government regulations.

23 replies, 1891 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply What? NAFTA: The Sequel? (Original post)
Left Coast2020 Nov 2012 OP
hay rick Nov 2012 #1
msongs Nov 2012 #2
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #3
sigmasix Nov 2012 #4
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #7
pipoman Nov 2012 #10
jerseyjack Nov 2012 #12
pipoman Nov 2012 #21
sigmasix Nov 2012 #17
pipoman Nov 2012 #20
Left Coast2020 Nov 2012 #19
ProfessionalLeftist Nov 2012 #5
SHRED Nov 2012 #6
snappyturtle Nov 2012 #8
pipoman Nov 2012 #9
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #11
jerseyjack Nov 2012 #13
Bozita Nov 2012 #14
progressoid Nov 2012 #15
loudsue Nov 2012 #16
ReRe Nov 2012 #18
former-republican Nov 2012 #22
RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #23

Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 09:43 PM

1. Good article.

K&R.

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 09:49 PM

2. unfortunately the election choice was obama or romney, both extreme corporatists nt

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 10:38 PM

3. You are right to be worried. All of us should be. The let's-send-American-jobs-to-foreign-countries

 

"free-trade" agreements has been a disaster for the average American and America as a whole.

All of the so-called "free-trade" agreements and the corporations that they benefit are inherently undemocratic and are not influenced or affected by anything that we say generally or on this board.

The super-rich are not going to listen to us. They don't have to. Likewise, the politicians that they bought and represent them are not no matter what they say.

As noted by the author of the article:
The pending agreement "stipulates that foreign corporations operating in the United States would no longer be subject to domestic U.S. laws regarding protections for the environment, finance or labor rights, and could appeal to an 'international tribunal' which would be given the power to overrule American law and impose sanctions on the U.S. for violating the new 'rights' of corporations."
...
When governments are otherwise responsive to their citizens and balk at approving activities of corporations "The TPP allows the corporations to directly sue the government in question. All of the TPP member countries, except for Australia, have agreed to adhere to the jurisdiction of this international tribunal, an unelected, anti-democratic and corporate-staffed kangaroo-court with legal authority over at least ten nations and their populations."
...
"Pharmaceutical corporations are major proponents of these rights and are likely to be among the major beneficiaries of the intellectual property chapter of the TPP. The pharmaceutical industry ensured that strong patent rules were included in the 1995 World Trade Organization agreement, but ultimately felt that those rules did not go far enough."
...
"While the United States has given up the right to negotiate drug prices with pharmaceutical corporations (hence the exorbitant price for drugs purchased in the U.S.), countries like New Zealand and even Canada to a lesser extent negotiate drug prices in order to keep the costs down for consumers. The TPP will grant new negotiating privileges to corporations, allowing them to appeal decisions by governments to challenge the high cost of drugs or to go with cheap alternatives. Referring to these changes, the U.S. manager of Doctors Without Borders' Access to Medicines Campaign stated, 'Bush was better than Obama on this'."

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/441-occupy/14699-focus-why-so-secretive-the-trans-pacific-partnership

Nothing that any of us say on this board will make a difference. We already had a choice between Rmoney and Obama, both of whom indicated that they were going to sign the TPP. Undoubtedly, however, there will be Obama cheerleaders who will tell us to just give him more time, that he is a five-dimensional chess player, that he signed the Lilly Ledbetter Act, that he repealed the don't-ask-don't-tell policy, and all the other nonsense which is irrelevant to the fact that the so called "free-trade" agreements and the TPP in particular is not in our best interest.



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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 10:52 PM

4. more information?

The OP is well constructed and written, but excludes proof of the allegations other than what other people and groups have said about this agreement. There ought to be portions of the leaked documents quotated within the OP to support the narrative being promulgated by the writer.
The OP states that the Obama administration, as just another corporate whore, is supporting this agreement. Has anyone asked the administration about these concerns? What was the administration's response? The tone of these articles always makes me wonder...

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:19 PM

7. Excuse me but when you say that you want "proof" and more information, you ALREADY KNOW

 

(1) Other let's-send-American-manufacturing-jobs-to-foreign-countries "free-trade" agreements have been signed and they have been a disaster for America as a whole.

And (2) this latest "free-trade" agreement has been negotiated in secret. You acknowledged knowing this when you used the phrase "portions of the leaked documents."

If this was in our best interest, the Obama Administration would not be relying upon secrecy while negotiating one of the most important and far-reaching agreements that is going to have an impact upon all of our lives.

If you are among the super-rich or even a wealthy stockholder, this may benefit you. If you are otherwise a middle-class American, the odds are that it will not.

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:40 PM

10. Yeah, you're right, keep moving, nothing to see here..

You are surprised about what part of this? What part are you finding unbelievable? this is being rammed through with the exact same cavalier force as NAFTA and GATT even though some 80% of the public opposed those 2 agreements. No, the modern trade agreements are the spoils of purchasing Obama and every other supporter. Read the site in my tag line if you're really interested...I'm guessing you are choosing to close your eyes and see candy canes and unicorns just as the corporatists know you will and don't intend to educate yourself about this..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:07 AM

12. Remember when Obama was going to fine-tune NAFTA after he got elected in '08?

 

Same cast, same bullshit, different location, different year.

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Response to jerseyjack (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:41 AM

21. Yep, I also remember

that traitor to labor, Robert Reich, promising milk and honey for the US after NAFTA..still waiting..now we get to read Reich's disbelief that the US economy is in the shitter where he was told it would be, all the while he blames labor for the economic problems..

As for DU, I find it interesting with all the blunder about corporatists, big banks, and the Occupy movement, there isn't a movement against these labor destroying agreements, the silence on these issues, and frankly the bribery and traitorism of our elected officials who are supporting these agreements with no protection of foreign or domestic labor..is truly deafening..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #10)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:42 AM

17. have we met?

I hope that you haven't already got my last name and list of lifetime loves as well.
I was asking nicely about a subject I know nothing about that was brought to my attention by the OP.
The tone of the OP suggests some things about the president that I'm inclined to suspect, hence the particular articulation of my question.
I am hopeful that my joining DU leads to the formation of close friendships and meeting all kinds of different people. I'm always disappointed when someone makes sweeping statements and assumptions about me or others based on such small slivers of information about us as people.

"I'm guessing you are choosing to close your eyes and see candy canes and unicorns just as the corporatists know you will and don't intend to educate yourself about this."

I expect some sort of apology from you that acknowledges your responsibility for this choice as an adult, otherwise I will assume that you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation and cannot accept responsibility for your own actions. I know this is just some silly discussion thread on some silly website, but one should always practice care when given the opportunity to prove your charity after unfairly withdrawing it.

I'm looking forward to reading the information you have provided for me in the link. Thank you from all of the members of DU for going to the trouble to put together a robust response to corporatist elements within our own electorate. We ought to be working together to educate everyone about each of our niche interests and how they affect and effect our lives as citizens of America.

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:32 AM

20. Yeah, welcome to du

you'll find that there are many threads around here that are not in documentary format, some require outside research on your own..this is a simple one to research. Posting advice as your post #4 seems to be is usually a way to dispel information posted without actually posting opposing proof.

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Response to sigmasix (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 02:08 AM

19. So you prefer to "not" know about this?

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

5. Yeppers, and Obama mentioned recently he plans to pass this thing. n/t

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:17 PM

6. You do not become President in the USA...


...without being to some degree or another...a Corporatist.


--

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:19 PM

8. I thought NAFTA was bad but this? We're screwed. OK, how do we

fight TPP?

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:22 PM

9. The labor party is dead.

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sat Nov 24, 2012, 11:49 PM

11. some how, the info needs to go VIRAL through the populace. yesterday.

 

the next chance that we(the people) will have to do anything definitive about it will be November 2014.
we need qualified non-corporatist candidates in every congressional race- and we need to support them and get others to support them as well.
ultimately- the people do have the power to make the changes.
but it will be one hell of a fight- and they won't fight 'fair'...they never have, never do.





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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:07 AM

13. Call your senators. Its the only hope.

 

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:09 AM

14. Infuriating at least!

Last edited Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:40 AM - Edit history (1)

Might be time to open a pitchfork specialty store.

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:16 AM

15. Shit.

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 12:30 AM

16. kickkin'

& reccn.

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:35 AM

18. When is this TPP supposed to be ratified or voted on? Signed?

K&R for discussion

I ran over to readersupportednews.org and read for a good half hour and didn't come upon a date. (BTW, that does look like a legitimate muckracker sight with Truthout.org folks running it.) For some time now, my blood boils when I hear that our government has done something in secret. I remember a time when C-Span showed EVERYTHING that was going on in our government. (Not so, anymore, it made a huge change around the time GW came in.) I just don't trust anything secret. Corporations are secret. They don't have to tell anybody what the hay they're doing. Corps are run as dictatorships. It's why Romney got away without handing over his tax returns. Why his campaign was run not on solid facts, but by conjecture. Not to mention his secret religion.

These trade deals (Nafta & Gatt) were started under GHWB, weren't they, and then voted on when Clinton got in? Then all the living Presidents went up to DC for this grand signing ceremony? Supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread, they told us? (As opposed to Ross Perot, who asked if we heard that giant sucking sound...i.e., the sound of our jobs going over seas.)

Is this really a democracy? I am totally bamboozled at the moment. Dayamm!

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 09:49 AM

22. Romney was a big supporter and advocate of this bill being signed

 

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:42 PM

23. not just the US paying the price

 


The Price of Free Trade: 112 Die Jumping From Burning Building in Bangladesh- No Outside Staircase
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021880476

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