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Thu Nov 22, 2012, 07:56 PM

The USSR reacts - November 1963.

Chilling words that held a mirror up to our divided nation, evident today as much as it was back then...




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Reply The USSR reacts - November 1963. (Original post)
RagAss Nov 2012 OP
Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #1
leveymg Nov 2012 #2
RagAss Nov 2012 #3
leveymg Nov 2012 #10
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #4
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #5
cliffordu Nov 2012 #6
Submariner Nov 2012 #7
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #8
davidn3600 Nov 2012 #16
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #17
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #19
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #20
Grins Nov 2012 #9
RagAss Nov 2012 #24
mountain grammy Nov 2012 #11
freshwest Nov 2012 #12
LongTomH Nov 2012 #14
Lordquinton Nov 2012 #15
PufPuf23 Nov 2012 #13
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #18
Cal Carpenter Nov 2012 #21
RagAss Nov 2012 #22
Hydra Nov 2012 #23

Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:02 PM

1. Wow.

K&R.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:09 PM

2. Just because they were Russian commies doesn't mean they were wrong.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:16 PM

3. I was actually taught as a child growing up here....

that there were no churches in Russia and nobody was allowed to own a gun. Later on in life when I met Russian folks, they laughed in my face at these beliefs. One of them even told me, she has yet to see a place of worship as beautiful as the one she went to in the Soviet Union and her father had a small arsenal of weapons in her parents bedroom closet. They shoved a lot of shit down our throats growing up in this country in the sixties.

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Response to RagAss (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:05 PM

10. Anticommunism excused practically everything back then, including executive actions and coups.

Poppy Bush was a primary proponent and beneficiary of those bloody Cold War purges.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:18 PM

4. and we know damned well

That if the same bastards can do that to Obama, they WILL try. If JFK got shot today, Fox News would be lionizing his death.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:27 PM

5. They knew us quite well it seems.

 

Everything that happens here is about the money. With Kennedy alive there would have been no Vietnam war, he was looking to break up the intelligence agencies and he was looking to end the cold war. Lots of money lost for the MIC and they were not going to stand for it.

A great tragedy for this nation.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:35 PM

6. K&R.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:48 PM

7. K&R

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:36 PM

8. It would be interesting to know whether any respected USSR or Russian authors debunked the

 

it-was-Lee-Harvey-Oswald story.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 04:37 AM

16. An ex-KGB spy did do an interview about this and said there was no conspiracy

ABC did an interview with Oleg Kalugin, a ex-KGB spy from 1958 to 1990.

It is an interesting interview...

ABCNEWS: Who do you think killed President Kennedy? Was there a conspiracy?

Kalugin: Well I support and stick to the official explanation, the Warren Commission Report, that Kennedy was assassinated by a loner and misfit, by name Oswald. And I have no reason to distrust that. Of course, in history things happen. And something, some day, may surface, which would completely discard that belief in the Warren Commission's truthfulness. But as of today, I have no reason to doubt that's exactly what happened. Oswald killed Kennedy because he was an unhappy guy. A guy who just wanted to make himself, perhaps a hero, or someone. He was a disgruntled misfit, and he committed that crime.


ABCNEWS: As an intelligence officer who came to know the qualities of a good agent, how would you describe Oswald's shortcomings?

Kalugin: Oswald looked after many, many months of investigation, like a misfit, an unhappy man. The man who did not know what to do, the man who was looking for something, and he did not know himself what he was looking for. I mean a kind of a type who is not focused on anything. A kind of a type which is not good for the intelligence, because he will just blunder. He will confuse things and will let everyone down. So he was no good.


Kalugin also claims that neither the USSR nor Cuba had anything at all to do with the assassination. The Soviets did put out information that it was the work of right-wing groups and conservatives and the CIA and such. But Kalugin says that was all propaganda.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=131459&page=1#.UK8-coZiHDw

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 05:16 AM

17. Of course, kalugin himself was suspected of being CIA & has a background that

 

would support that hypothesis. And he now works for the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Kalugin

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #17)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 09:57 AM

19. Thanks. And with ABC as a broadcaster, "Operation Mockingbird" should be remembered.

 

Of course, it's been said that Operation Mockingbird has been discontinued.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #16)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 10:08 AM

20. Thanks. Of course, opinions from ex-spys have more value when the opinions are based on facts

 

which are uniquely known by the ex-spys.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:52 PM

9. At the 1:00 minute mark...

Probably a little truth to the Russian's statements, esp about Texas and Goldwater.

Is that a young Don Hewitt behind Cronkite at the 1:00 mark? Looks like him.

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Response to Grins (Reply #9)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 07:45 PM

24. It looks just like Hewitt...I would bet it is him.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:24 PM

11. wow, that was chilling!

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:38 PM

12. Ha, I wish I'd seen this one back then. I think Valentine's got a good bead on this.

Last edited Fri Nov 23, 2012, 02:31 PM - Edit history (2)

Although, I was pretty young then, and I had that childish trust in Cronkite. Looking at this today, he looks like a shill. Different perpectives with time. And he was a product of his time, like most are.

Russia was indeed being blamed for Oswald, but he was not beloved when he lived there and took a Russian wife. Too bad that the clip cuts off just when it wes getting interesting. The Pravda of that day was adversarial, but Kennedy was politically attacked for the Bay of Pigs and not nuking Russia by some quarters of American society.

What remains to be seen, is will this or next year be the year that there is satisfaction for all of us? The human race, except those who profit by war, and there are more than we want to believe, generally want peace between all peoples.

I'll send this to some friends in Russia. I started chatting with them online a few years ago, during the end of the Bush years and they were worried about the American elections, afraid of McCain.

I gave them info about candidates who wanted peace and words of the Founders, etc. They were impressed and relieved that not all Americans wanted to go to war with Iran, which they have treaties with, because the media was pushing that at the time.

Also they were contacting native peoples as there was much in common with their traditional lives in the past, much like their Siberian communities.

They are younger than me, post Cold War, and we shared our hopes and dreams, religious beliefs, family history. We both know our history going back a thousand years, the difference is that part of their family still lives on the same land, and naturally, as emigrants, my family does not. They were not wealthy, but I found that awesome.

They sent me many videos that made me realize we were lied to about their huge country, which is as diverse, or in many ways more so, than the USA.

Their question was, because they got a lot of hate from Americans, and it was hurtful when they were trying to show the best of their countryside, religion and culure, and it hurt:

'Why do Americans hate us so much? Why do you want to kill us? We could work together, we could go to the stars together.'

As someone said upthread, we were lied to a lot about Russia.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:58 PM

14. Thank you! Thank your Russian friends!

Tell them we could still go to the stars together!

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Response to freshwest (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 03:41 AM

15. That almost made me cry

"we could go to the stars together." says so much, and it's not even a metaphor.

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:44 PM

13. Another Wow here. kr

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 05:20 AM

18. What's interesting is why this was reported at all, even with Cronkite's editorializing.

 

Most people would have never known what the russians said about anything in those days unless it was on TV. So why report it?

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 10:44 AM

21. Just as Cronkite emphasized that this was 'Soviet propaganda'

his reporting (and editorializing of) it was US propaganda. That was why it was reported - to show how crazy those Russians are or whatever. In retrospect, however, it looks a lot different though...

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Response to Cal Carpenter (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:37 AM

22. Truth !

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Response to RagAss (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 12:27 PM

23. Kicking for later watching n/t

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