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Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:30 PM

Question: how would you feel if they raised the minimum age of Social Security or Medicare?

I know how I'd feel. Betrayed. I'm 45. I've paid into these programs for 27 years. There's a very good chance I'll become too sick to work years before 65. I already have days where I can't move. I have a pretty good idea of what 20 more years is going to do to my body and my ability to work.

To me there's certain things that are sacred, and our American social contract is at the top of that list. Wall Street has been ass-raping the middle class in slow motion since the housing bubble began. They want to dismantle every inch of our social contract: privatizing schools, roads, the military...plundering our pensions, our houses, our communities. When is anyone going to stand up to them?

Betrayed wouldn't quite cover it for me, actually. It would be a tragic loss for civilized society. It would be as heartbreaking, in a complete and total way, as knowing that someone destroyed the Mona Lisa, blew up the Statue of Liberty, or cut down the last redwood.

The social contract is something precious that we'll never get back. If they're allowed to "chip away" at it, you can kiss it goodbye. If it is saved, through the recognition of its importance to our identity, I bet you, it will never be touched again.

It's really THAT important. We either fight and win this one -- or lose, and kiss it all goodbye.

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Reply Question: how would you feel if they raised the minimum age of Social Security or Medicare? (Original post)
nashville_brook Nov 2012 OP
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #1
nashville_brook Nov 2012 #188
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #192
nashville_brook Nov 2012 #231
Sadiedog Nov 2012 #207
lsewpershad Nov 2012 #189
CreekDog Nov 2012 #191
Warpy Nov 2012 #2
behindthe8ballnchain Nov 2012 #41
nashville_brook Nov 2012 #56
wordpix Nov 2012 #99
nashville_brook Nov 2012 #149
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #106
Warpy Nov 2012 #141
Patiod Nov 2012 #152
Squinch Nov 2012 #160
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JustAnotherGen Nov 2012 #209
nashville_brook Nov 2012 #62
sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #121
Sadiedog Nov 2012 #208
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #129
Warpy Nov 2012 #140
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #163
nashville_brook Nov 2012 #190
Faygo Kid Nov 2012 #3
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wordpix Nov 2012 #100
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newspeak Nov 2012 #155
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truedelphi Nov 2012 #21
robinlynne Nov 2012 #73
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doc03 Nov 2012 #109
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Response to nashville_brook (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:33 PM

1. I would be furious.

 

Because it's unnecessary, we should be expanding these programs not shrinking them.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:33 PM

188. what would you be willing to do to prevent this?

I know there's a lot of organizing going on around this right now. AFL-CIO, for sure has a campaign going -- here's a link to their petition. I've read that this was a topic of discussion in their meeting with Obama this week.

http://act.aflcio.org/c/18/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=5062

Right now it's also very important that your Senators hear from you, since this is where the action will come from.

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Response to nashville_brook (Reply #188)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:36 PM

192. My union is very active politically.

 

So I know we'll be out pounding the pavement. Writing my Senstors will not really help much, I have teabagger Toomey that wants to eliminate all "entitlements" and Bob Casey who is pretty much an untouchable DINO. I can at least try with him.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #192)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:35 AM

231. I've got Nelson and Rubio

i'm hoping the Nelson remembers how many seniors vote in this state.

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Response to nashville_brook (Reply #188)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:44 PM

207. Thank you, signed and comment added! nt

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:35 PM

189. +1

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:36 PM

191. with Obamacare, insurers might oppose raising the age, and it might add to the deficit anyway

i don't think insurers would want to add older, higher risk people to their insurance rolls --they'd probably prefer adding younger customers not old.

and removing people from Medicare, which is cheaper per person than insuring them which adds the cost of providing profits to insurers (and because Obamacare subsidizes so many people, a 66 year old not covered by Medicare is more likely to cost the gov't more than one on Medicare).

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Response to nashville_brook (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:34 PM

2. Absolutely furious!

Those fucking desk jockeys have no clue in the world what toll physical work, whether as a lineman, cop, nurse, paver, waitress, or any other of the jobs that need our bodies to do them takes on those bodies.

Those assholes think an hour on the squash court keeps them in shape. They have no clue that kind of activity for eight or more hours a day will wreck their bodies completely.

It makes NO SENSE to raise the age. A much better case can be made for LOWERING it, with half benefits due at 55 to be eked out by easier jobs like gas station cashier until 65, when full bennies are due.

People who do physical work for a living have NOT seen an increase in their overall life expectancy, Mr. Desk Jockey. Only the soft pink men who work in air conditioned comfort and are lavished with the best food and medical care have seen that increase.

Asshole.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:58 PM

41. Gotta tell you that

not everyone who works a desk job is lavished with the "best food and medical care" or are the "soft pink men" you describe. Though yes the air conditioning in the summer is nice.

Seriously, most of us are the 99% as well. And as much as you worry about the toll physical work takes on you, I honestly wonder if I will be able to maintain the mental agility needed to do my job until the current age of eligibility. Mentally speaking, I do heavy lifting and it takes a toll.

Point being there's really no need to draw a line between those who "shower in the morning and those who shower at night" (as Ed Schultz would put it) when there are nefarious forces in this country who would deny both you and I the dignified golden years that my parents and grand-parents were allowed. All so said greed bastards can have a bit more.


Oh - and how would I feel if the rules of the game are changed ? Like I paid a $1000 to see the Sex Pistols in San Fransisco back in '78. That's the show where they played one song and Johnny Rotten says "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

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Response to behindthe8ballnchain (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:12 PM

56. nice Sex Pistols reference! eggsactly.

i hear you about the mental agility of desk jobs -- there's also youth curve. i've been a designer for a lot of my career. you don't see many 60-year old designers. when you do it's b/c they own the shop, or they're a brand onto themselves.

over the course of my career i've seen the work go from "selling creative" to throwing shit together as fast as possible b/c you're doing the job it used to take 4 people to do. they want younger, cheaper and stupider -- not seasoned, more experienced, and thorough. certainly not..."creative."

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Response to nashville_brook (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:38 PM

99. "they want younger, cheaper and stupider" - same in my line of work

While my older age/experience is appreciated, what you're saying is true.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #99)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 11:10 AM

149. i've been planning how to segue into a "wisdom" career

the way i see it, you have to find a way to sell your experience/creativity/wisdom, instead of "filling orders" for publications, brochures, advertising, etc.

This generally means creating a niche, or boutique shop. So, i could specialize in healthcare marketing or campaign work.

But -- this is self employment, with all the problems and uncertainties of "not having a real job." been there, done that -- and will likely be doing that again, hopefully with a better client base.

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Response to nashville_brook (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:52 PM

106. +1 nt

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Response to behindthe8ballnchain (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:23 AM

141. You still get to 65 with an intact body

Please read the post. The point was that physical work wrecks your body and a lot sooner than 65.

Body. Get it?

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Response to Warpy (Reply #141)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 11:37 AM

152. Aren't nurses at highest risk for back problems?

I don't have the numbers, but I think they have the highest rates of back damage. My SIL is a nurse, and she had to go into dialysis work because she couldn't lift/move patients any more.

You are 100% right about the damage some occupations do to the body!

Although, in defense of "desk jockeys", no one wants to hire us with benefits if we're over 50. Hire us as consultants, sure. But not year round, and not with benefits. So if I'm really lucky, I now work March - June and September - November. I get January, February, July, August and most of December "off" without pay because my clients are unlikely to be farming out much work then.

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Response to Patiod (Reply #152)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:56 PM

160. I'm a PT. We're way up there too.

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Response to Patiod (Reply #152)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:29 PM

168. The corporate expiration date used to be 55

and if somebody in upper management hadn't died off or retired and there was no place to move you up, out the door you went.

I guess the rotten economy has pushed that back 5 years.

This is the other reason the retirement age has to be lowered, not raised. Think about having half your social security benefits coming in, you'd have some income to tide you over those lean months--or to supplement the ridiculously low wages of a dead end cashier job.

The problem is who's making the laws--desk jockeys who haven't been turned out of their jobs in their 50s. Hey, they think they can work forever! Thurmond practically did! So they ASSume the rest of us jolly well can.

And we can't. After 55, either our bodies have betrayed us or the job doesn't want us any more.

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Response to behindthe8ballnchain (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:59 PM

209. Thanks!

I'm 39 and basically have paid in 30 years (modeled as a kid). I developed Ankylosing Spondylitis at 36. I'm good now - but I can't fathom having to work another 40 years or so. And I have been in telecom since the late 1990's - Frontier/Global Vrossing - Carrier Services when I started. 6 AM to 10 Pm plus weekends in my 20's took their toll. Wireless not much better. And we don't get overtime . . .

The picture looks pretty sometimes - and I feel for people who do physical labor (my husband is one) . . . But he sees the need for mental health breaks for "desk" workers - do more, more, more and don't complain or they will find a way to replace you.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:15 PM

62. totally agree - no one takes into account the kind of work 90% of us do.

i'm a desk jockey, but i know that if i had to waitress again, i couldn't do it. i damn sure couldn't stand all day to do a retail job. forget about anything as demanding as nursing!

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Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:59 AM

121. It's worse than 'they have no clue'. They don't care. Those who want to cut

benefits, like Pete Peterson and Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, just don't care about the majority of people. They look down on everyone who is not part of their club.

How it has come to the point where a few greedy bastards are sitting around talking about how to take away benefits from millions of people, is a mystery to me. They are so few, we are so many. Who do they think they are? And why have the people allowed it to get to this point?

Who gave them the right to even discuss what to do with the PEOPLE'S money. They have no right to talk about it, let alone interfere with it in any way.

So it's time for them to learn just what a minority they are imo.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #121)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:54 PM

208. Great point it`s not their money. NT

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Response to Warpy (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 02:46 AM

129. Give the desk jockeys a break, we're all in this together. The attitude you project about those

 

that live lives you don't is the exact corollary that so many of them have toward the kind of work that I assume you do.

Have you ever heard the term "unskilled labor"? Do you believe that other people's occupations are more socially valuable than yours? Who is more important to our civilization, a neurosurgeon or the trash collector?

Are bad knees, or a bad back worse than cardiopulmonary disease?

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #129)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:22 AM

140. I've worked highly technical office jobs

and I've worked in the trenches as a nurse. I know that office work is mentally draining.

However, it doesn't wreck your body in your mid 50s. Physical work does.

My point was that it wrecks your body, not that it's more valuable. Office work often pays better, after all.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #140)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 01:51 PM

163. The pay is definitely an an issue even though many office guys make less that physical work.

 

But high stress office work kills and sickens people just as surely as does the physical work, especially when (most) people hit their 40's. The point I'm trying to make is that this is about all of us that are forced to exchange our lives for those that do the damage and none of us should have to live in deprivation after spending decades making others dreams come true.

We should be fighting together to make improvements for all of us, not arguing with each other over who has it worse and how much more we have to surrender so that the rich can take even more. We, our party, should be fighting for lowering the retirement age and expanding Medicare, not just hoping to keep the inadequate benefits we still have.

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