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Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:15 PM

 

A Year in Jail for Not Believing in God? How Kentucky is Persecuting Atheists

In Kentucky, a homeland security law requires the state’s citizens to acknowledge the security provided by the Almighty God--or risk 12 months in prison.
November 21, 2012 |

The law and its sponsor, state representative Tom Riner, have been the subject of controversy since the law first surfaced in 2006, yet the Kentucky state Supreme Court has refused to review its constitutionality, despite clearly violating the First Amendment’s separation of church and state.

"This is one of the most egregiously and breathtakingly unconstitutional actions by a state legislature that I've ever seen," said Edwin Kagin, the legal director of American Atheists', a national organization focused defending the civil rights of atheists. American Atheists’ launched a lawsuit against the law in 2008, which won at the Circuit Court level, but was then overturned by the state Court of Appeals.

The law states, "The safety and security of the Commonwealth cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon Almighty God as set forth in the public speeches and proclamations of American Presidents, including Abraham Lincoln's historic March 30, 1863, presidential proclamation urging Americans to pray and fast during one of the most dangerous hours in American history, and the text of President John F. Kennedy's November 22, 1963, national security speech which concluded: "For as was written long ago: 'Except the Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.'"

The law requires that plaques celebrating the power of the Almighty God be installed outside the state Homeland Security building--and carries a criminal penalty of up to 12 months in jail if one fails to comply. The plaque’s inscription begins with the assertion, “The safety and security of the Commonwealth cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon Almighty God.”

http://www.alternet.org/belief/year-jail-not-believing-god-how-kentucky-persecuting-atheists



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Reply A Year in Jail for Not Believing in God? How Kentucky is Persecuting Atheists (Original post)
HarveyDarkey Nov 2012 OP
Enrique Nov 2012 #1
freshwest Nov 2012 #2
x2 vancouverite Nov 2012 #6
freshwest Nov 2012 #14
x2 vancouverite Nov 2012 #21
agent46 Nov 2012 #40
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #3
Cirque du So-What Nov 2012 #17
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #79
Cirque du So-What Nov 2012 #80
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #81
Cirque du So-What Nov 2012 #86
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #88
Cirque du So-What Nov 2012 #89
HopeHoops Nov 2012 #90
nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #4
sarcasmo Nov 2012 #16
Cleita Nov 2012 #5
nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #23
JHB Nov 2012 #31
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #68
MrScorpio Nov 2012 #7
dixiegrrrrl Nov 2012 #91
Lady Freedom Returns Nov 2012 #95
2naSalit Nov 2012 #8
avebury Nov 2012 #9
smaug Nov 2012 #10
niyad Nov 2012 #11
riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #12
niyad Nov 2012 #15
JNelson6563 Nov 2012 #44
defacto7 Nov 2012 #51
newspeak Nov 2012 #92
Lady Freedom Returns Nov 2012 #96
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #69
niyad Nov 2012 #13
leftlibdem420 Nov 2012 #54
csziggy Nov 2012 #18
HarveyDarkey Nov 2012 #24
Michigan Alum Nov 2012 #71
Kolesar Nov 2012 #76
csziggy Nov 2012 #98
Kolesar Nov 2012 #104
Incitatus Nov 2012 #106
csziggy Nov 2012 #109
rrneck Nov 2012 #19
Odin2005 Nov 2012 #20
mick063 Nov 2012 #26
cordelia Nov 2012 #30
eridani Nov 2012 #58
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #62
eridani Nov 2012 #94
Edweird Nov 2012 #78
mick063 Nov 2012 #99
Edweird Nov 2012 #102
mick063 Nov 2012 #105
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #82
Amaril Nov 2012 #87
cordelia Nov 2012 #29
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #83
Major Nikon Nov 2012 #85
niyad Nov 2012 #22
Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #25
Coyotl Nov 2012 #27
progressoid Nov 2012 #28
RKP5637 Nov 2012 #33
Ghost in the Machine Nov 2012 #38
progressoid Nov 2012 #65
Ghost in the Machine Nov 2012 #67
RKP5637 Nov 2012 #32
struggle4progress Nov 2012 #34
onenote Nov 2012 #43
msanthrope Nov 2012 #108
macacawitz Nov 2012 #35
frogmarch Nov 2012 #36
Livluvgrow Nov 2012 #37
coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #39
defacto7 Nov 2012 #49
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #59
SpartanDem Nov 2012 #73
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #97
TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #107
Berserker Nov 2012 #41
dembotoz Nov 2012 #93
Downtown Hound Nov 2012 #42
SoapBox Nov 2012 #45
BigDemVoter Nov 2012 #46
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2012 #47
mckara Nov 2012 #48
silhouete2 Nov 2012 #50
leftlibdem420 Nov 2012 #52
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #53
Kaleva Nov 2012 #55
Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #56
JEB Nov 2012 #57
6000eliot Nov 2012 #60
Zoeisright Nov 2012 #61
cali Nov 2012 #70
aandegoons Nov 2012 #74
Mariana Nov 2012 #72
mountain grammy Nov 2012 #63
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #66
gtar100 Nov 2012 #64
Jim Lane Nov 2012 #75
Kolesar Nov 2012 #77
obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #84
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #100
savebigbird Nov 2012 #101
marmar Nov 2012 #103
Ya Basta Nov 2012 #110

Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:20 PM

1. well, if it's for security purposes then ok

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:23 PM

2. Rand Paul's libertarian (circa 4000 B.C.) paradise. Yup.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:26 PM

6. You give him too much credit

 

More like a Neanderthal paradise.

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Response to x2 vancouverite (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:38 PM

14. You mistake me. I think he is a waste of oxygen, food, water, space and time.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:46 PM

21. I understood and understand

 

You needn't use the icon with me. I live on it!

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Response to x2 vancouverite (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:31 PM

40. Don't knock the Neanderthals

They may very well have exceeded us in many desireable traits.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:24 PM

3. Fuck. I love Owensboro. You mean I can't go back there?

 


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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:42 PM

17. You can go back

but I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone would want to. I grew up there, and as soon as I came of age, I was gone-zo. The only thing I miss is BBQ mutton.

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Response to Cirque du So-What (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:43 AM

79. I really loved being there. It was so different from what I was used to.

 

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #79)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:12 AM

80. I've felt that way about lots of places I've lived and visited

but where O-burg is concerned, familiarity breeds contempt. Having grown up there, I know where all the bodies are buried - so to speak - and it colors my perception of goings-on among the various petty fiefdoms vying for power and influence. There's a reason why KY has 120 counties - more than any other state in the union with the sole exception of TX, where the size somewhat justifies so many political subdivisions. Too many 'Boss Hogs' clinging to power in a decidedly medieval manner.

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Response to Cirque du So-What (Reply #80)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:27 AM

81. I was so not involved in that. I stayed at the 6-story hotel on the river and worked nights...

 

... on the computers at the Messenger-Inquirer. I played pool at the 24x7 pool hall two blocks over and ate at the "all-you-can-eat" BBQ joint four blocks to the other side (good salad bar). I walked from one end to the other several times and still have a mental image of the entire area - including the Cadillac Motel (which I never stayed at).

It's kind of weird to run into someone from that town. It's sort of remote. Oh, and I like your play on cirque du soleil.

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #81)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:46 AM

86. That hotel, the Executive Inn, is gone

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2009/nov/08/crack-bang-boom-owensboros-executive-inn-imploded/

Built by reprehensible Bob Green in the late '70s with non-union labor, the ticky-tacky construction lasted only 32 years. The fleabag Cadillac Motel, however, remains. I've never stayed there either, but I've eaten breakfast at their diner more times than I can count. The pool hall, which I think is the 8 Ball, has been closed due to insurmountable health-code violations. It had become a haven for meth-heads and wannabee-outlaw bikers anyway. Like I mentioned earlier, the BBQ is probably what I miss most - mutton most specifically. You won't find it on the menu ANYwhere else. The Bosley family, with their Moonlite franchise, has pretty well cornered the market, so all their competitors must purchase their mutton from them at inflated prices, driving the struggling restaurants out of business. My relatives ran one such competitor, Old Hickory, for many years, but finally sold the place.

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Response to Cirque du So-What (Reply #86)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:16 AM

88. Well that's a bitch. It was the only place you could get a beer on Sunday (only with a meal).

 

I have no idea how they worked that out, but even Applebee's (down near Subway) wouldn't serve beer on Sunday. I ran up to Indiana and brought beer back in a styro cooler for Sundays. It was a lot cheaper and the hotel had ice. It's sad to see that place go. It was one of the nicest places I ever stayed in and I've done a lot of travel. Bummer.

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Response to HopeHoops (Reply #88)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:31 AM

89. It used to be about the only place where you could drink on Sunday

Amazing, the amount of 'special dispensation' one can purchase. That reminds me of another beef with KY: dry counties/locales. To the east of O-burg lies a vast stretch of dry territory all the way to Fort Knox, necessitating long drives that often result in drinking along the way home. For those close enough to the Ohio River, there's always Indiana, but for those 'inland,' it's no small feat to acquire alcohol.

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Response to Cirque du So-What (Reply #89)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:37 AM

90. Yeah, Irving, TX is dry. You can tell because EVERY border crossing is lined with liquor stores.

 

On the plus side, they also had some pretty nice strip clubs on the border crossings. Panties on sold alcohol, full nude was BYO. Yes, my wife knows I went to them. I flew into Evansville a lot and bought beer on the way to the hotel (with a styro cooler and ice). I'm seriously sad to learn that it was demolished. It was sort of a "feature" in the town.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:24 PM

4. Bang head

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:40 PM

16. It sure is a head turning in the wrong direction.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:26 PM

5. That can't be legal. Federal law wouldn't allow it and

Federal law supposedly preempts state law, or so I was led to believe.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:48 PM

23. Why the state Supreme Court has not taken it up

And orebody has to challenge in Federal.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:08 PM

31. Probably an actual case would move it toward Federal action sooner.

Once they have the plaques up (or whatever idolatry this entails) they can make a big stink about the "Gummint taking GOD out of our" gummint office building.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:11 AM

68. You've discovered the flaw so many of us don't or won't see. The law depends on government

 

to enforce it. I'm not a pretty rich guy today because two state governments refused to enforce the laws, even while acknowledging that the law had indeed been broken and that I was substantially harmed because of it.

This stuff, and far worse, happens every day in this land of the free.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:27 PM

7. This law is inviting a challenge

The Constitution itself is at stake

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 11:39 AM

91. uhhhh...if the Feds do not bother with Constitution

why would they care if the states don't?

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:01 PM

95. My opinion is that the Conservative movement itself is a...

danger to the Constitution!

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:28 PM

8. Ummm last time I checked

that was a direct violation of 1st Amendment rights...

Best to lawyer up on that shit.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:28 PM

9. If our safety and security depends upon the

power of the Almighty I guess that means that we can totally do away with the military budget.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:29 PM

10. My question is...

Why does Kentucky waste taxpayer dollars on a Homeland Security building?

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:33 PM

11. how in the HELL has this travesty been on the books for six years, and some of us are only now

hearing about it?

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Response to niyad (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:36 PM

12. Because atheists are America's easiest whipping boys.

More distrusted than any other group, and we can't take on every violation of church and state - there's just too many.



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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:40 PM

15. I just read the whole thing, and the kentucky supreme court keeps refusing to rule this nonsense

unconstitutional.

the law says something about plaques, plural, around the building, so I am wondering how many, and who they consider responsible for those plaques. the whole thing is disgusting and absurd.

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Response to niyad (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:47 PM

44. They probably fear retribution

from bible-god's people. A scary lot to be sure.

Julie

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Response to niyad (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:22 PM

51. Multiple plaques are very important.

If there is only one plaque, God may not see it right away. It takes more than one plaque to make sure God sees it. With 2 plaques God probably sees it but he may not be impressed enough to give proper security to Kentucky. Now 3 or 4 will surely get a good response from a deity, but if you cover the whole building with these plaques, God may just get into the mood to smite your enemy just for the hell of it.

But if you don't have any plaques......... God won't even know your there!

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #51)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 01:47 PM

92. that's right

i want a plaque for buddha (who is not a god), krishna, and the all knowing spaghetti god with his noodley appendages.

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Response to newspeak (Reply #92)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 08:39 PM

96. That brings up a good point!

They seem to have it as only the Christan/Hebrew God. What about all those other forms of God??? Are they going to push only one view of God on the public?

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 03:13 AM

69. No, atheist smokers are the easiest (well, maybe not in KY).

 


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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:37 PM

13. a DEMOCRAT authored this stupidity--a baptist minister who uses his "faith" like a bludgeon,

apparently. yet, the good citizens of his district keep electing him, despite how much money he has cost the taxpayers in lawsuits over his religious zealotry.

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Response to niyad (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:28 PM

54. A fucking DEMOCRAT?

 

When Republicans treat people like this, we call them David Duke.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:42 PM

18. Rats - I was planning on going to Kentucky next year

Between this and Kentucky allowing hunting of sandhill cranes, I may cancel my plans.

Kentucky's Sandhill Crane Hunting Season
http://fw.ky.gov/navigation.aspx?cid=886&navpath=C117

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Response to csziggy (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:50 PM

24. But, but, but....

 

you mean you're not going to see the creationist museum? It's in KY also. I guess you're waiting for the Noah's Ark theme park to be finished. Makes sense, catch them both in one trip.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:20 AM

71. Aren't they endangered?

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Response to Michigan Alum (Reply #71)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 07:26 AM

76. Whooping cranes are barely hanging on

They only have one seasonal habitat on the Gulf Coast, IIRC. Sandhill cranes are more widespread. That hunt is just legalizing target shooting of innocent creatures, though.

If you are ever in Wisconsin, visit: http://www.savingcranes.org/

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Response to Kolesar (Reply #76)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:52 PM

98. And whooping cranes migrate through Kentucky every year

I figure it's only a matter of time until some hunter confuses a whooping crane for a sandhill. At this point the numbers of whooping cranes is critically low. Even one individual lost is terrible.

There are plenty of other animals that can be shot without taking that chance.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #98)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 08:35 AM

104. Elections are a filter to put the stupidest people into the statehouse

"The statehouse" is what we call the legislature in Ohio, I suppose it applies to KY. I suppose if I tried to explain this to a state legislator, he would go all "can't compute, only 15 synapses work" on me.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:57 AM

106. OMG, me too! I guess I'll have to settle for the Caribbean again.

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Response to Incitatus (Reply #106)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 08:50 AM

109. What a hardship!

I have no choice about the location of the seminar. My only choice is whether or not to attend.

There were only two classes I wanted to take, both of which will be very popular. If I don't get into those two, I will probably sacrifice my pre-registration fee and not go. If I do get into both or into the one I want the most, I will probably go and feel guilty about it.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:43 PM

19. Im perfectly safe where I am. And it ain't Kentucky. nt

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:45 PM

20. This is why I, as a liberal Atheist, refuse to even visit the South.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:55 PM

26. The wife wanted a trip to Disneyworld last summer.

 

Then the Trayvon Martin tragedy happened.


We spent our time in Washington State instead.

I am quite content in the Pacific northwest. I will never set foot in a Southern State. That is a promise.

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Response to mick063 (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:03 PM

30. Good. Make sure you keep that promise.

Washington State is great. I visit every chance I get. I just ignore the dozen or so known hate groups there.

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Response to mick063 (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:43 PM

58. How about exceptions for the blue urban areas?

The red parts of WA State are as bad as anything you'd find in the rural South.

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Response to eridani (Reply #58)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:55 PM

62. That's true

The whole eastern side of the state is republican. The only reason democrats win so many elections is because of how powerful King County's vote is. But even so because King County's vote is so powerful and democrats do tend to win more votes most of our laws are sensible. I can't imagine living in a state where they required a woman to get an ultrasound before having an abortion. Or a state where Planned Parenthood gets defunded. Or a state where the state constitution states you must recognize God to serve in public office. I live in this state for a reason. My daughter is moving to the eastern part of WA in two years to go to Washington State University. She is a democrat and an atheist. It will probably be a bit of a culture shock although she is looking forward to the warmer and drier weather. She is a strong independent young woman. I'm sure she will be able to hold her own amongst all those republicans.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 07:44 PM

94. University towns are also blue spots surrounded by red

I'll bet she'll find plenty of congenial company.

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Response to mick063 (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 07:41 AM

78. You won't be missed.

 

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Response to Edweird (Reply #78)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 02:07 AM

99. I wasn't expecting to be missed.

 


Regardless, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

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Response to mick063 (Reply #99)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 08:08 AM

102. You know how at tax time you have to file state as well as Federal? I don't have to do that.

 

I only have to file Federal. There's no state income tax where I live. Want to know why? Because enough people visit here and spend SO MUCH MONEY that the sales taxes cover our budget. I couldn't care less how you spend your money. Of course, it's probably all internet BS anyway. If you even HAVE the money it wouldn't make sense to go to Orlando for Disney World when Disney Land is due south of you.

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Response to Edweird (Reply #102)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 01:44 AM

105. Still not ever going to step one foot in that dumbass law, "stand your ground", state.

 

I pay only Federal income tax as well.


The tourist reason doesn't fly with me. You don't need Disney to survive without state income tax.

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Response to mick063 (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:32 AM

82. This atheist liberal from NC is glad of that

Take your intolerance and regional bigotry elsewhere.

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Response to mick063 (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:13 AM

87. Yeah, we're all armed to the teeth..........

....and looking to pick off tourists down here in Florida -- it's what we do for fun on the weekends - well, that and mudding.

It's good you didn't come. I mean, it's not like there are ANY democrats / liberals / progressives in the entire state. Nope, nary a one............the entire fucking state is populated by nothing but gun-totin', neighborhood watch vigilantes. Disneyworld is just a glittery trap we've set to lure unsuspecting rubes such as yourself into our web of malicious intent.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:58 PM

29. Good. Stay away. Far away.

We don't need your bigoted attitude here. There's too much as it is - just like everywhere else in the country, so keep your hate in your own backyard.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:33 AM

83. I, as a liberal atheist from NC, say "thank you"

We don't need haters here.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:39 AM

85. It's actually quite sporting to live in the South

I don't ever offer anything about atheism, but when someone simply assumes I'm a Christian I am quick to correct them. The usual response is they look at you like you're from another planet.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:48 PM

22. is there any indication of how many people have been prosecuted and jailed under this stupidity?

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:55 PM

25. Kentucky still exists, so it must be working!

But seriously, this is unbelievable. A nod to history is okay, but this is more than that.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:57 PM

27. The safety and security of the Commonwealth cannot be achieved apart from reliance upon Almighty God

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:57 PM

28. Which God?

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Response to progressoid (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:12 PM

33. Yep, which god, which religion and which asshole(s). ... got so many of them anymore we

need a god scoreboard to keep track. One more giant step backward for mankind.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:28 PM

38. The "Almighty" one.. jeez, can't you read? It's right there in *bold* letters and everything!!!

Some people! I tell ya, you can dress 'em up, but can't make 'em read for shit!

Sorry, couldn't resist that one... I'm in a good mood right now, for a change

Peace, and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours,

Ghost

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:19 AM

65. Ohhhh.

I thought it was this one:





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Response to progressoid (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:28 AM

67. Folks, we have our winner, please stop calling in now.. Thanks!

Well played!

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:10 PM

32. Well, if god mandates it then we better do it - how dare anyone question this!!!

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:17 PM

34. Hmmm. The "legislative findings" of Kentucky Revised Statutes KRS 39A.285(3)

seem quite silly to me, as do the promulgation and display requirements for the Kentucky Office of Homeland Security under KRS 39G.010

But I'm just not understanding where the claim of "a year in jail for not believing in G-d" comes from

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:42 PM

43. its hyperbole by the author of the article cited in the OP

you are right that the law is exceedingly silly. and, frankly, it ought to be held unconstitutional insofar as it requires the state director of homeland security to "publicize" the legislative findings about God's role in protecting the state and arguably imposes a penalty of one year in jail on the director if he/she doesn't publicize those findings. (I say arguably because the specific provision at issue doesn't contain a penalty provision; rather there is a generally applicable penalty provision to the larger section of the state code in which the god provision is located.

In any event, the court case upholding (wrongly I believe) the provision noted the requirement that the director publicize the legislative findings but then went on to expressly find that "no requirement exists that
the director agree with or believe in them or that citizens read the posting." So, as interpreted, the law doesn't threaten jail time for not believing in god.

A copy of the decision (which quotes the statutory language) can be found in a link in this article:http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/almighty-god-can-remain-in-ky-homeland-security-law

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #34)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:22 AM

108. There you go again, bringing facts into threads......nt

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:19 PM

35. Allah will be pleased....

now Kentucky and Iran have something in common.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:20 PM

36. WTF

This is outrageous!

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:23 PM

37. Wow

I live in the mountains of NC and everybody I meet is so nice. You are missing out on a real beautiful part of the country because of some small minded people.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:30 PM

39. Sorry to be a Doubting Thomas here, but I'm not sure how this absurdity persecutes

 

atheists. It's highly discriminatory and seems unconstitutional just on its surface, but I fail to see it actually persecuting anyone.

Am I missing something here or is this an inflammatory headline?

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:12 PM

49. That's what I was thinking.

It seems that if someone is responsible for not putting up those plaques, they could go to jail for up to 12 months. It doesn't say anything about atheists or non-believers. It could be more of a "don't dare forget to put it up" kind of thing. I think this post is way off track.

The law is still stupid as hell though.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:43 PM

59. well if you are the head of the state Homeland Security division

and you're an atheist you may decide not to put the plaque up because you feel it vioates seperation of church and state. Then I would imagine you could be thrown in jail. There are some southern states that require you recognize God to even run for public office. It's in their state constitution. These laws clearly violate seperation of church and state and should be changed. The first thought that ran through my mind when my daughter told me she was an atheist was well she'll never be president. And not because she's a woman but because she is an atheist. There may not be a law saying you have to be Christian to run for president but the litmus test is obvious. There is no way in hell the majority in the country would vote for an atheist for president. Not right now anyway. Maybe with the way the demographics are changing we will see some real change in the coming years but for now you have to be Christian to be president. We have a long way to go to fight the blatant discrimination against atheists in this country.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:29 AM

73. No state requires that you recognize God to hold public office

Torcaso v Watkins(1961) rendered those law unenforceable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins

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Response to SpartanDem (Reply #73)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 10:41 PM

97. They should have to strike those laws from their constitutions

It is offensive they are even there, and just because there is a Supreme Court case that makes it unenforceable does not mean they won't deny them a position in public office anyway. They could decide that it is worth a lawsuit just so they can do it in the first place to make a point. It is obvious they are trying to make a point or it wouldn't be in the state constitution when they clearly know they are violating a Supreme Court decistion.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #59)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 04:19 AM

107. if a Christian who believes in separation of church and state refused to place

the plaques then they to would be prosecuted. Or a muslim, or a hindu, or an agnostic.

The law is incredibly stupid and unconstitutional, it does not appear to single out atheists.

I'm not an atheist and would never put up the absurd plaques.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:37 PM

41. If this happens in Wisconsin

 

I'm fucked.

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Response to Berserker (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 02:02 PM

93. don't tell glenn grothman.....

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:41 PM

42. Just imagine if these people ever did gain true and absolute power

No really, please imagine it for me because the thought of it is too scary for me to contemplate.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:48 PM

45. ...whoa.

Amazing.


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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:54 PM

46. Appallingly ridiculous. . .

Not to mention disgustingly unconstitutional. Fucking IDIOTS.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:56 PM

47. jesus fucking christ. n/t

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 10:57 PM

48. The Death Throes of a Failing Mythology

The end is near for foolish religious philosophies where the symbols must be explained because people cannot relate to its messages.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:15 PM

50. How can the courts legally justify this?

And these people scream that Obama is taking our country on the path to ruin. Perhaps they should look in the mirror. Oh, and also read that Constitution--the one they scream about loving but have absolutely NO idea what is in it.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:26 PM

52. Eric Swalwell's friends.

 

If Swalwell were from Kentucky instead of San Francisco, these would be his people.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:28 PM

53. The stupidity of people never ends.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:29 PM

55. So the director of the Kentucky Homeland Security could go to jail if the sign is taken down?

"The law requires that plaques celebrating the power of the Almighty God be installed outside the state Homeland Security building--and carries a criminal penalty of up to 12 months in jail if one fails to comply."

"Further, (the law) places a duty upon the executive director to publicize the assertion while stressing to the public that dependence upon Almighty God is vital, or necessary, in assuring the safety of the commonwealth,” wrote Judge Ann O'Malley Shake in Court of Appeals’ dissenting opinion."

http://www.alternet.org/belief/year-jail-not-believing-god-how-kentucky-persecuting-atheists

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:31 PM

56. In what branch of government does "Almighty God" serve?

Judiciary? Legislative? Or Executive?

Because under the Constitution, you can't serve under more than one.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:39 PM

57. So which god is it?

Crazy fucks need to stop foisting this crap into the Public space....feel free to be as delusional as you choose in the privacy of your own minds.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:46 PM

60. Well, there's a state I won't be visiting.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:54 PM

61. They're worse than the Taliban

That is the most disgusting piece of shit I have ever read.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:07 AM

70. Seriously? Get a paper bag and breath into it

this kind of hyperventilating is bad for you.

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Response to cali (Reply #70)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:37 AM

74. Relatively so.

I am sure it would be worse if they thought they could get away with it.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 04:26 AM

72. Well, not quite. Not yet, anyway.

I have no doubt whatsoever that they'd behave in exactly the same way as the Taliban has done, if they ever gained that much control.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:57 PM

63. I lived in North Carolina for a while as a child

and traveled a lot in the South. I also lived in Texas for a few years. Lots of ignorance, lots of intolerance, lots of racism, it's true, but there is really a lot to love, so much beauty and so much history in the South, as an American, you should not turn your back on this part of your country. Like it or not, it's our heritage and it's home to some of the finest and most talented people this country has ever produced.
I read that Ashley Judd is considering a run against Mitch McConnell for the Senate. I would love to see more famous southerners go back and try to lead their states forward.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #63)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:21 AM

66. I agree with you

With the demographics changing we must be ready to help some of these states turn blue. I hear people complain about Texas all the time but the truth is it won't be long at all before Texas is blue. If all the democrats left the states that are currently red we would never turn them blue.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 12:17 AM

64. But it's absolutely true, because the bible says so.

And if you want proof, just look in the bible where it says it.

Thus beginneth and endeth the reasoning of ye ol' Kentuckians who felt that their God was not powerful enough on His own and thus required the codification of faith in the law books. Because now that the force of their man-made laws are behind it, they can say that He really means it.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 07:15 AM

75. The headline is ridiculous, and it conceals the $160,000 question

If you read the full linked article, and the comments, you'll see that the law doesn't require anyone to believe anything and doesn't impose a one-year sentence for anyone's action or belief.

Someone in this thread called the headline "hyperbole" -- that's too polite a term. It's flat-out wrong.

The law does require the posting of plaques. IMO that use of public funds to promote religion is enough to justify the striking down of the law.

Here's the best part of the article, about the state legislator who sponsored this foolishness:

A practicing Baptist minister, Riner is solely devoted to his faith--even when that directly conflicts with his job as state representative. He has often been at the center of unconstitutional and expensive controversies throughout his 26 years in office. In the last ten years, for example, the state has spent more than $160,000 in string of losing court cases against the American Civil Liberties Union over the state’s decision to display the Ten Commandments in public buildings, legislation that Riner sponsored.


In a just society, Riner's paychecks would be subjected to regular deduction until the $160,000 (with interest) was repaid.

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 07:30 AM

77. Put the "building super" in jail if he doesn't put up the Ten Commandments placard, presumably

Yes, the article is unclear.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 09:34 AM

84. The regional bigotry and bashing in this thread is just heartwarmimg



And clueless.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 06:00 AM

100. all i see is a law requiring religious plaques on homeland security offices. where is

 

the year in jail for individuals who are atheists?

i see 12 months in jail if plaques aren't hung on homeland security buildings, but that has no direct relationship to any individual's religious beliefs so far as i can tell.

it's unclear to me who would pay the penalty except whoever was in charge of facilities at HS buildings. it's a weird law. presumably if it's law, whoever was in charge of the HS building would have no choice but to comply or resign -- but jail time is very weird.

the headline is misleading though -- it makes it sound like there's a general law that you have to believe in god in kentucky.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 07:19 AM

101. This is why we have a Supreme Court! n/t

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Fri Nov 23, 2012, 08:10 AM

103. This isn't from the Onion?

nt

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 02:32 PM

110. Its becoming like

 

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